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View Full Version : Shooting an antique Winchester Model 1866 SRC



Doolin-Dalton
03-06-2022, 01:29 PM
Finally had an opportunity to put boolits on target yesterday and thought I would share results. My lever gun is an antique Winchester Model 1866 Saddle Ring Carbine (SRC) in 25,XXX serial range making it a very early 3rd pattern variant produced in 1868. Originally these were Rimfire guns and utilized the 44 Henry Flat. Since no one manufactures 44 Rimfire anymore, shooting one does generally necessitate converting to Centerfire, which is a very easy and non-permanent modification.

I won't go into too much detail on that mod, suffice it to say it only requires use of a replacement firing pin and striker plate and these changes are just about drop-in ready and cost less than $100 using reproduction parts. These 2 centerfire items are avail through sources like Winchester Bob and Homestead Parts. Since this post is about reloading boolits, I'll focus more on that and note that my 1866 has already been converted.

The original 44 Henry Flat ammunition utilized a 200gr lead projectile, 26-28grs black powder in a copper or brass case, that to my observation has varied in length from 22.2mm to 22.7mm depending on the manufacturer. According to wiki, the bullets were .446" diameter with a .441" heel.

For my reloading I utilized the following:
1) Brass cases pre-cut and sold by Buffalo Arms Co. The cases are 44 S&W Special, trimmed to 22.3mm or 7/8 inches in length
2) 200gr lead Boolits sold by Old West Bullet Moulds, these come in a .442" diameter with a .422" heel
3) Federal No. 150 Large Pistol Primers
4) Pyrodex FFG powder. I was able to fit 21-22 grs and leave enough room for the heel of the boolit to seat without crushing the powder
5) Lyman 310 loading tool using 44MAG Dies, note: I added (filled) some acraglass into the tip of the bullet seating die since the boolit contour of the die is too narrow for Henry flat and it was creasing my lead.

Results: One hell of a lot fun! While my 1866 is in Good- condition, the Rifling & Bore are excellent, I'd rate the bore and rifling at 8 or 9 out of 10. The rounds seated a little tightly each time, however the extraction was like butter and the shooting was too. With 21-22grs, there was almost no recoil. I think for the next time I'll add a little lube around the lead rings.

Firing at a target 100 yards distant, I had anticipated about 10" of drop based on my reading, however after the first 5rds I found that was not the case. All 5 were lined up, but had landed about 5-6 inches too high. At 100 yards, the rounds pressed into a 1/2" plywood board but did not pass through. At 30 yards they sailed completely through. This was my first time shooting the Carbine so it may take some getting used to the Ladder Sight, elevator and graduations on the next outing.

Funny thing, the field stripping and proper cleaning of the rifle take longer than reloading the boolits!

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turtlezx
03-06-2022, 02:48 PM
you have a better pic of the gun

Shawlerbrook
03-06-2022, 03:39 PM
Yes more pictures of that old beauty.

Doolin-Dalton
03-06-2022, 04:06 PM
Thanks, added a couple above. I don't have a paid membership so had to do low resolution.

missionary5155
03-06-2022, 06:15 PM
We also have an 1866 and use 3F Goex.
I personally would not use any "replacement BP" in a real 1866.
I understand it is easier to find that stuff but our 66 is far more valuable than "going the easy route".

Der Gebirgsjager
03-06-2022, 06:21 PM
Thanks, Doolin, for a very interesting and informative post. I really enjoyed reading it, and looking at your photos. A 310 tool and Pyrodex--you're really "into it"! An 1866 is one I don't have, although I've considered one of the newer replicas. I do have 1873 models and enjoy them.

DG

Gewehr-Guy
03-06-2022, 08:13 PM
I never knew there was an easy way to convert an original to CF. I would like to shoot one of the reproductions someday, maybe someday I'll run into one at a decent price.

Now a little story about one that got away. Back in the 80's I went to a farm and antique auction that also had a quite a few antique guns. One was an Indian used 66 Winchester, that was in rough shape,and brought way too much money for a young me! I think it brought $1200 , but don't remember exactly. A few years ago the Dakota Territory Gun Collectors Assn. ran an article in their news letter, about that particular rifle. Years later one of the owners submitted the rifle for testing, and it was positively identified as being heavily used at the battle of the Little Bighorn.

The gun was later sold at auction for $660,000.

Doolin-Dalton
03-06-2022, 10:11 PM
We were just at the LBH Battlefield this past June! That's pretty exciting about the testing of that specimen. I read somewhere that the Lakota and Cheyenne Warriors at LBH Battle had hundreds of these 1866s and 1860 Henrys, or that analysis from recovered shell casings (44 Henry) showed several hundred different rifles/carbines were in use that day.

Doolin-Dalton
03-06-2022, 10:12 PM
Thanks Der Gebirgsjager!

Doolin-Dalton
03-06-2022, 10:14 PM
Missionary, what are your thoughts on this Blackhorn 209? I'm tempted to check it out. I worry about corrosion, spent quite a bit of time cleaning...

elk hunter
03-07-2022, 10:33 AM
Thanks for posting the information about your loads.

I'm still lusting for a Henry and or a model 1866.

Back about 1970 I hunted deer with Harold McCallum a well known Winchester collector here in Oregon. He told me about trying to take a deer with an original 1866 in 1966. He said every time he pulled the trigger the deer jumped before the bullet got there. That story only intensified my lust for an early Winchester.

ndnchf
03-08-2022, 11:49 AM
Missionary, what are your thoughts on this Blackhorn 209? I'm tempted to check it out. I worry about corrosion, spent quite a bit of time cleaning...

I shoot a lot of BH 209 in my antique cartridge guns. It is clean and very accurate.

I'm in Fredericksburg too - I sent you a PM.

Palma-Match 308 190gr Win
03-08-2022, 12:42 PM
Wow ! That subject is a truly special one :Fire: Great !

Wayne Smith
03-13-2022, 07:54 PM
Don't know if you will need it with a rifle but Bernie (Old West Bullet Molds) also modifies a Lee die to make a crimp on a heeled boolit - I have one for my 41Colt.

ddixie884
03-13-2022, 11:41 PM
Cool, Thanx.............