S&W M&P 38Spl

[racepres]

Acquired a 38 S&W M&P over the weekend.. C prefix.. Prolly late '50 early '51 production..
Of course had to put a few rounds thru it right away!!! Promptly deposited some lead in the forcing cone, first part of barrel..Darn!!
It just barely passes a .358 slug thru the throats, which seem consistently sized.. so naturally it disliked .359's that are Normal around here.. except some 140 Lee SWC's that my DanWesson/High Standard, Pork Chop needs... Loaded some up with 4.0gr Red Dot... No Bueno
a bit of lead... but... Simply changing to 4.5 gr of Unique solved all that and shoots close to POA to boot.. I don't think this old piece needs hotter...
Just preliminary observations... FWIW
Tho this seems BassAckwards for bullet fit vs leading... that is how this one is going!!!

[rintinglen]

297103297104297105

I consider the M&P 38 S&W to be the "Rodney Dangerfield" of revolvers. It got virtually no respect back in the day, with delusional 1911 advocates sneering at users while the Magnum crowd sniffed their disdain, but with good ammo, it got the job done. The +P 158 grain LHP loads variously described as The Chicago, FBI or Saint Louis loads punched above their weight. They are an excellent choice even today for the occasional or week-end shooter. Get one, sight it in with your ammo of choice, and smile, brother, smile. They shoot as straight as their target sighted brethren, the M-15s and M-14s, and have no delicate adjustable sights to get broken or knocked out of alignment.

I have a couple now, and as long as grizzly bears and mastodons are off the table, I would be as happy with one for self defense or just plain fun shooting as anything else.

[racepres]

^^ Yes... I like this one alot.. C prefix 5-screw, in what I consider Excellent Condition..Matching serialed Grips, which will be replaced with Small Presentation Pachmayrs.. It is shooting about anything I throw at it, Not +P tho as I own 357's and 44's to hurt my hand...

[Larry Gibson]

My S&W M15 has .358 cylinder throats as does my Ruger Security Six 357. My M19 S&W has .357 cylinder throats. All my 38 SPL and .357 magnum cast bullets are sized .358 which works just fine in all three revolvers.

[racepres]

^^ .359 has been working for me for quite some time in everything except the HS/DW PorkChop...Which demands .358, even to chamber!!! Now..I am getting best results with this old M&P with .358...so be it... I already do both due to the PorkChop!!

[Thumbcocker]

I have found that the Lee 125rnfp shoots to sights for me in model 10s. Heavier boolits shoot high. FWIW I prefer revolvers to hit what the front sight covers so that may be the issue.

[bedbugbilly]

I have a S & W M & P - C prefix with a 5" barrel. From everything I have found, mine has has a DOB of probably 1952. I use either the Lee TL .358-158 SWC or the Ideal/Lyman 358-311 over 3.5 grains of Bulls Eye in it - shoot them as cast tumble lubed in Paste Wax/Alox. The 358-311 drops at around .3585 - 359. I have never had an issue with leading on mine. It shoots where it points and is a fantastic revolver.

I primarily shoot SAA revolvers but if I could only keep one of ky revolvers, it would be the M & P. Years ago I was looking for a 4" and ran across a S & W CM the same time as I ran across my 5". I didn't know how much I would like the 5" but I fell in love with it. I eventually gave the 4" CM to a young fellow who is like a son to us who got interested shooting. When I am gone, the M & P will be passed on to him.

Enjoy your M & P and have fun!

[racepres]

I have found that the Lee 125rnfp shoots to sights for me in model 10s. Heavier boolits shoot high. FWIW I prefer revolvers to hit what the front sight covers so that may be the issue.

Interesting.. Perhaps why I have best luck with the 140 Lee SWC.. aiming 6:Oclock, as I have always done


I have a S & W M & P - C prefix with a 5" barrel. From everything I have found, mine has has a DOB of probably 1952. I use either the Lee TL .358-158 SWC or the Ideal/Lyman 358-311 over 3.5 grains of Bulls Eye in it - shoot them as cast tumble lubed in Paste Wax/Alox. The 358-311 drops at around .3585 - 359. I have never had an issue with leading on mine. It shoots where it points and is a fantastic revolver.

I primarily shoot SAA revolvers but if I could only keep one of ky revolvers, it would be the M & P. Years ago I was looking for a 4" and ran across a S & W CM the same time as I ran across my 5". I didn't know how much I would like the 5" but I fell in love with it. I eventually gave the 4" CM to a young fellow who is like a son to us who got interested shooting. When I am gone, the M & P will be passed on to him.

Enjoy your M & P and have fun!

Yes...I think I will

[Char-Gar]

I have been keeping records for decades on every revolver that has passed through my hands. Most, but not all Smiths have cylinder throats between .357 and .358. I have found overall that bullets sized .357 do better than .358.

Smith M&Ps won't take protracted use of +P loads without being turned into a paper weight. Model 10s on the other hand fair much better with +P loads.

Here is my 5" 1931 M&P a sweet revolver, but I shoot only 3/BE/358311

[racepres]

I have been keeping records for decades on every revolver that has passed through my hands. Most, but not all Smiths have cylinder throats between .357 and .358. I have found overall that bullets sized .357 do better than .358.

Smith M&Ps won't take protracted use of +P loads without being turned into a paper weight. Model 10s on the other hand fair much better with +P loads.

Here is my 5" 1931 M&P a sweet revolver, but I shoot only 3/BE/358311

Appreciate the input. Tho I have zero use for +P 38's.. I have 357's for that... I kinda thought that the post war, 1948 to 1957, C Prefix stuff... was thoroughly Heat Treated. Truly Pre-Model 10

[Char-Gar]

Appreciate the input. Tho I have zero use for +P 38's.. I have 357's for that... I kinda thought that the post war, 1948 to 1957, C Prefix stuff... was thoroughly Heat Treated. Truly Pre-Model 10

It is my understanding that 1957 was the year that metallurgy was changed to rate these revolvers for +P.

[racepres]

It is my understanding that 1957 was the year that metallurgy was changed to rate these revolvers for +P.

From S&W yes... they say No +P in Non-Numbered 38's..(pre 1958...some '57's). Yet, they also claim metalurgy changed on all postwar..
I bet Numbered models are easier to identify than PreWar vs Postwar...so KISS... Again Matters Zero to Me. MY DW/HS PorkChop can Handle it well!!
BTW, Again From S&W No 38 was originally recommend using +P, until 1985 or so.. Complicated stuff!!!

[downzero]

Appreciate the input. Tho I have zero use for +P 38's.. I have 357's for that... I kinda thought that the post war, 1948 to 1957, C Prefix stuff... was thoroughly Heat Treated. Truly Pre-Model 10

+P .38s are such a tiny increase in pressure that you'd need a precision instrument to tell the difference. .357 Magnum is double the pressure, not close.

[racepres]

+P .38s are such a tiny increase in pressure that you'd need a precision instrument to tell the difference. .357 Magnum is double the pressure, not close.

Yes and Yes... Point being...If one needs more than 38Spl...may as well go all the Way!!!! I believe +P is a Marketing Ploy...

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Sir-- I would like to try and persuade you to re-examine your thoughts on .38 Special vs. .38 Special +P. Do you happen to have a copy of Lee's Modern Reloading, 2nd Edition. Or the 1st Edition, or any of several other reloading manuals? I like the Lee book because it shows so much data in one location for any given bullet or load.

Just one example, because there are just too many to list, on page 567 a .38 Special load using a maximum of 5.8 gr. of Accurate No. 5 and an 158 gr. XTP bullet shows a velocity of 841 FPS and a pressure of 16,500 PSI. Take note that it is listed as maximum. On page 572 the same bullet, loaded to +P level with 6.0 gr. of the same powder shows a velocity of 900 FPS and a pressure of 18,500 PSI. This is only .2 Grain difference with a velocity difference of 59 FPS, but a big pressure increase, which points out the precision neeeded in reloading. This comparison was selected randomly, and other loads may show a greater pressure variation.

But here we have a 2,000 PSI difference between regular and +P loadings using the same powder and the same bullet. Remember, we are talking about a revolver here, not a bolt action rifle where 45,000 and 60,000 PSI are normal for various cartridges and loadings, and where a pressure increase of 2,000 PSI is a much smaller percentage of the normal operating pressure. But even there, if already at the maximum of any load, and additional 2,000 PSI can cause failure. 2,000 PSI is a much larger percentage of the total pressure level above a 16,500 PSI maximum standard maximum load.

I lived through the eras of cartridge evolution from standard loads to +P and even +P+ loadings, and can assure you that the revolver manufacturers were forced to upgrade their products to handle the new loads. Just because, as an example, S&W revolvers' appearance remained largely unchanged for years does not mean that one made in the 1940s or middle '50s can handle a diet of +P loads. The change was in the metallurgy and heat treatment, and while not readily apparent, it is there.
After, as Char-Gar stated, many older revolvers were shaken into disrepair and destruction the manufacturers began stating if their products were +P rated or not, and you would be wise to heed their advice. It is not likely that ignoring the advice will result in catastrophic failure like an exploded cylinder, but since .38 Special shooters tend to shoot their revolver a lot, a few boxes may well be enough to shake everything so loose that the gun becomes inoperable. Believe me, I've seen some. A manufacturer stating that their revolver is +P rated, or an ammunition manufacturer stating that their ammunition is +P isn't a ploy to sell more of either, but rather a listing of desirable features such as an automobile having power steering or air conditioning. It's to advise you of what you're buying, and at the same time a caution not to use ammunition of a certain power level in a firearm not designed for it.

DG

[racepres]

Again... One More Time... I have 357's for anything hotter than normal, low to midrange, 38 Specials...
Have Never... in at least 50 Years of reloading, built any "hot" nor +P 38's.... No Reason... No Reason to go Hot 357's...have a 44Mag... No Reason to go hot 44Mag... Have a 45Win Mag... you get the idea