Lubrasizer..

[Wolfdog91]

What's the most budget yet versatile option for a lubrasizer type thing? Anything out there that I can use in conjunction with my NOE bushings?

[megasupermagnum]

Tumble lubing, or coating are the best for bushing sizers. You can dip lube normal lube, and size in the bushing sizers, but I wouldn't want to do more than maybe 200 at a time like that. Tumble lubing is going to be the most budget friendly option there is for shooting. I own a Lyman 450, but I wouldn't really recommend it unless you get one free or really cheap. No way I'd pay over $100 for one. Once you get that much, just hunt for a used Star. Both take their own dies, and will not work with NOE dies.

[Outer Rondacker]

Pan lubing. Look it up sorry I dont have time to type a response. It's not a tool just a cheap way to apply lube.

[Larry Gibson]

Watch the for sale forum for a Lyman 450.

[Land Owner]

I am not a "NOE Guy" so I can't say about NOE Bushings. Lube/Sizers from Lyman and RCBS, the two brands that I know, require [interchangeable] specific and independent lube/sizing dies with internal boolit sizing ring diameters measured in thousandths of an inch, in increments "equal to", "a thou" larger than, and a "couple of thou" larger than, a specific caliber bore diameter.

Izzat a Hog Nose Snake you are holding in your Avitar? Nicely played regardless...

[Late Note: changed my response as others noted "interchangeability" in RCBS and Lyman dies, which my original wording can be interpreted otherwise]

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Wolfdog,
good morning.
The BIG issue with the different brands of Lube-sizers is tooling costs. Dies and top punches are expensive, whereas the initial purchase of the press isn't really too bad. AND...they all use different tooling, with one exception, RCBS and Lyman are pretty much interchangeable.

None of them will use your NOE bushings.

It's best to research the "Pros and Cons" of the different Lube-sizers, to discover which suits your needs the best.

[Sasquatch-1]

Lyman and RCBS use the same dies interchangeably.

Either pan lubing or tumble lubing can work. You can then use a Lee push through sizer. I find LLA to be the least desirable because it is messy.

[Baltimoreed]

The most economical hard lube system is the old lee pan lube cookie cutter deal. Used a couple of them for years before I got a used lyman 450.

[Thumbcocker]

The most economical hard lube system is the old lee pan lube cookie cutter deal. Used a couple of them for years before I got a used lyman 450.

Did a lot of boolits with one of those back in the day.

[Lksdmachine]

Don’t forget that the RCBS and Lyman lubesizers can also gas check for you too with the little seating tool they make.

I went through the same barrier and just invested some time looking for a lube sizer. When you are looking for one, they seem to appear out of nowhere. Stumbled into two of them, one Lyman for 100.00 and another RCBS for 60.00. A few gunshows later, I had a nice box full of the common size dies and pushers. I now set up one lubesizer on each side of the bench, nice and handy.

That all lead me to searching for local bees wax and lube recipes and spending more hours reading here….so it’s a win win!!

[Drydock]

Keep an eye on eBay for a Lyman 45. This forum has all the info you need to be up and running with minimal cost.

[centershot]

Lyman and RCBS use the same dies interchangeably.

Either pan lubing or tumble lubing can work. You can then use a Lee push through sizer. I find LLA to be the least desirable because it is messy.

Messy? In what way?

[dverna]

WD

You are a young man who seems really into shooting. My advice is to put cost way down the list of your criteria. Good equipment lasts a life time. Equipment that meets your needs is a pleasure to use

Look at your current needs and where you think you will be heading.

Most people tell you what they use.

I have three methods. Each has advantages. BTW I do not powder coat....use a Star, have two Lyman 45’s and then BLL.

Do more thinking. I suspect a lot of good used stuff will be available as people leave the hobby. If you know your long term goals you can pounce on deals on dies and equipment as they become available.

[Baltimoreed]

Very true, my second lyman lubrisizer was from the leftovers of an estate sale/ giveaway. Needed a good cleaning but works fine. One is set up for .45 and the other for .311.

[lightman]

I'm another that is going to advise to not let budget be the biggest deciding factor.

You can pan lube, tumble lube or even powder coat. Or use a sizer / lubricator.

I have a Lyman 450, have used an RCBS and have a Star. The Star is by far the fastest but there is a small learning curve with it. The Lyman and the RCBS work about the same. The linkage on the RCBS seems to be a little stronger. Strength is not a big factor unless you are reducing the bullet diameter several thousands. There are dozens of lube recipes for homemade lube and dozens of different types of commercial lube. Some will require a heater.

[Jhopson]

The Lee APP works with the NOE bushings but only for sizing and not lubing the bullets.


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[El Bibliotecario]

In my lifetime I've wasted countless hours with two-cavity molds. Happily I did not make that mistake with lubrication and purchased a Lyman 450 when I began casting. Over the decades I have replaced the (inexpensive) handle once, and a cotter pin a couple of times. I mention this to emphasize the endurance of the tool so prospective buyers will not shy away from a used one.
As previously said, economy should not necessarily be the deciding factor and a younger reloader buying a lubrisizer today will feel smug in middle age.

[Bazoo]

I use a Lyman 450, and I also use tumble lube and lee push through sizers. I also have done a fair amount of pan lubing, using lee sizers. All three work. The pan lubings benefit is its cheap and easy. It isn’t super time consuming, but isn’t as fast as others.

The quickest and easiest is lee sizers and tumble lube. But tumble lube gets lube all over the nose of the bullet and looks bad unless you use just the right amount. I tend to overlube.

The 450 works great for applying gas checks. It also is clean to work and keeps the nose of the bullets clean. So loaded rounds don’t need wiping or have a mess in a baggie.

[Winger Ed.]

I figure out what tool I want, then save up and budget to get it.

If you start off with something you don't really like, then you'll want to save up and get what you really want later.
And the trade in value on the marginal one kind of sucks.

Getting a premium tool will do a good job for you, and last a lifetime.

[toallmy]

I have followed some of your threads , & get the sense you are more interested in cast rifle shooting with power coated boollits , so your needs for a lubesizer will be much different than mine .
I guess my question would be what are your plans for your future cast shooting ?

[fredj338]

WD

You are a young man who seems really into shooting. My advice is to put cost way down the list of your criteria. Good equipment lasts a life time. Equipment that meets your needs is a pleasure to use

Look at your current needs and where you think you will be heading.

Most people tell you what they use.

I have three methods. Each has advantages. BTW I do not powder coat....use a Star, have two Lyman 45’s and then BLL.

Do more thinking. I suspect a lot of good used stuff will be available as people leave the hobby. If you know your long term goals you can pounce on deals on dies and equipment as they become available.

^^THIS^^^
Cheeping out on good tools eventually means more time invested or buying better later. I am pretty much past conventional lubes now with coatings. I have an older Star lube/sizer & really, the only way to go imo. The Lyman & RCBS & & Saeco are all good but slower than the Star by a good margin. If you are seating gc, then the Star isnt as user friendly & I would look at one of the others.

[charlie b]

I have done pan lube a lot in the past. Messy.

LLA, if properly applied, works ok, but, I haven't tried it on rifle bullets, only pistol. 45-45-10 or BLL work better if you want to go with tumble lube. It takes a long time to cure.

I had a Lyman many years ago. Once you get the rhythm of how much to turn the lube handle it works well. I ended up selling it when bulk bullet prices dropped (90's).

I have been looking for a Star for quite a while now. Every time I find one someone else has beaten me to it.

[megasupermagnum]

If by gas check seater for the Lymans, you mean that dumb metal spacer that keeps the punch from coming down, I've had one forever, tried it once, and fail to see how it is worth more than 10 cents. If I had to do that to seat gas checks, I would have given up cast bullets on day 1. The Star works great for gas checks, as does the Lee and NOE sizers, or just using the Lyman as it was intended.

I can fully understand why so many new casters are going straight for coating. On the surface it seems cheaper. Ultimately it will cost about the same, but the price of a used Star is still quite the investment for a lot of people.

[TurnipEaterDown]

I have pretty much given up on the base first sizers like my RCBS LAM II.

I had used this quite a bit, for both rifle and pistol cast bullets, but began to have aggravating issues with die position.
While I always was careful in my mind to seat the die properly, I began to learn that seating the die "properly" probably didn't in reality do much for sizing bullets concentrically.

I learned this while working to produce good bullets with an Accurate 42-290G mold. This bullet just happens to have no crimp groove, and no visually defined driving band. It is a tangent ogive.
The bullets looked great coming from the mold, and when sized in my RCBS LAM II, they had sizing marks as if the mold had shifted blocks. Fairly lengthy discussion over email w/ Tom resulted in sending him pictures, and then bullets, the mold, and the sizer die to diagnose the issue.
These were Tom's exact words after I sent him the sizer die: "With your die in my press, the bullet settled into the die leans towards the press body every time and pressed in with a flat top punch, deforms in that direction.
A fitted punch tilts it in the other direction and deforms it that way. Consistently, every time.
Rotating the die 180 degrees produces the same results.
This would seem to "prove" that my press is the problem, even though it's never happened with countless dozens of other dies in this particular press."
It had us both stumped.

I went to a NOE sizer (nose first) and had Zero issues with this bullet. Visually perfect sizing, and 2000 fps 50 yd. groups w/ an 8 minute red dot sight and a craptacular Steyr 95 trigger like this: 1.375 (4/4), 1.0 (3/4), 1.3125 (4/4), 1.1875 (3/4)
So, it wasn't the bullet mold, my alloy, my technique, etc.

Some time after discussing this sizing issue w/ Tom, I began to really take a hard look at other bullets sized using this LAM II.
Any bullet that sized very little (like my 8mm 196 SAECO @ 0.325) looked great under a magnifier. No visual offset of front driving band.
Any bullet that had to size a couple thousandths: visual offset of front driving band when viewed in magnifier. One side was getting reduced in radius more (closer to the design center of the bullet) than the other. Did Not matter what bullet I looked at 30 cal, 8mm, 35, 44, 475, 512.
This press may be a lemon and the design fine, but I believe that the design feature used to align the die in the press leaves something to be desired. I believe that the cone on the bottom of the die fits a receiving cone in the press, and if the tolerances are slightly out on one or the other, you will have issues.

I have since changed to nose first push through on any bullet that isn't just barely touched in my LAM II, and I have run group tests where I have proven to myself over multiple 10 shot groups that nose first sizing with the equipment I have (NOE & LEE sizers) is better than the base first (at least coming out of my LAM II).

Base first sizers like the RCBS have a speed advantage, but what good is that if they don't size correctly?

I will pan lube, cut out w/ brass tubing or modified cases, and push through size when I have a bullet that is anything but final size dropping from the mold.


I would post some pictures of my sizing issues and group tests, but the system here just seems to lock up when I try to attach the images.

[Sasquatch-1]

Messy? In what way?

After coating and removing from whatever container I use, the lube gets over my hands, gloves, tweezers or plyers, whatever I have tried to use. When using the Lee push thru sizers the lube will tend to cake up on the bottom punch and when using the RCBS/Lyman sizing dies, the lube cakes up on the top punch and fill the nose cavity of the punch. When seating the bullets into the case I again get lube on my hand's which transfers to the next case Although this does happen with the RCBS/Lyman sized and lubed bullets also.

[Sasquatch-1]

For lubing there is one alternative I do not believe has been mentioned, and that is the smear method for lack of a better name. This is where you use a softer hard lube and force it into the groves with your fingers. Probably the messiest technique I have tried and still has to be sized.

[dondiego]

I have a Lyman 450 and several sizing dies and the system works great! I haven't used it it in years due to LEE push through dies and liquid alox and 45-45-10 and BLL and now NOE push through dies. By the way, if you are getting messy boolit noses using liquid alox or any of the other lubes, you need to dilute it with mineral spirits and use way less lube. It should end up as a light tan coating.

[centershot]

After coating and removing from whatever container I use, the lube gets over my hands, gloves, tweezers or plyers, whatever I have tried to use. When using the Lee push thru sizers the lube will tend to cake up on the bottom punch and when using the RCBS/Lyman sizing dies, the lube cakes up on the top punch and fill the nose cavity of the punch. When seating the bullets into the case I again get lube on my hand's which transfers to the next case Although this does happen with the RCBS/Lyman sized and lubed bullets also.

Sasquatch-1,
Are you using LLA straight out of the bottle? If so, I can understand your problem! I tumble lube all the time and have none of the problems you cite. My lube solution is made from one bottle of LLA added to one can of Johnson's Paste Wax (floor wax) that has been melted first. Stir in the LLA, stir well, let it cool and cover it. You don't need very much to lube your boolits! Put your boolits in a plastic tub, dribble a TINY amount of lube on them and swirl 'til they're coated. Pour them out on wax paper to dry overnight. If they're tacky to the touch after 24 hours, you used too much lube. You should just barely be able to see the lube on the boolits. If you feel that the lube solution is too thick, just add some mineral spirits or naphtha to it. Naphtha is the solvent in the LLA, but mineral spirits works fine. The problems you're having with tumble lube are pretty common, but generally it's because of too much lube.

[Winger Ed.]

This is where you use a softer hard lube and force it into the groves with your fingers. Probably the messiest technique I have tried and still has to be sized.

I can vouch for that!
When I first got my 1911, and mold, I'd forgotten to get a sizer at the same time.

I cast the boolits, did the smear method with hi-temp. disc brake grease, and went to the range.
The first 1/8th inch or so of the barrel sized them right down, but I also learned a lot real fast about barrel leading.:bigsmyl2:

[reddog81]

I found a Lyman 450 Lubesizer a few years back for $100 and it came with some lube, a number of the common sizing dies, and nose punches - .309, .355, .358, .453 and a few others.

I'm not sure you'll find a deal like that with the prices on everything going crazy but a Want To Buy ad in the Swapping and Selling section might yield some results.

One nice thing about the Lyman 450 is that it is common enough you can find random parts, sizing dies, and lube sticks that fit it pretty easily.

[Baltimoreed]

I prefer Lyman Orange Magic hard lube so a heater is necessary but it’s not messy.

[AndyC]

I use the NOE sizing dies in my Star quite happily - I have the NOE adapter for it:

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/sizing-tools/bushing-push-through-size-die/bushing-adapter-for-star-sizer/

Note, though - it will not allow lube to pass through, it's purely a sizing die. I powdercoat my bullets so lubing isn't an issue for me.

[Sasquatch-1]

Sasquatch-1,
Are you using LLA straight out of the bottle? If so, I can understand your problem! I tumble lube all the time and have none of the problems you cite. My lube solution is made from one bottle of LLA added to one can of Johnson's Paste Wax (floor wax) that has been melted first. Stir in the LLA, stir well, let it cool and cover it. You don't need very much to lube your boolits! Put your boolits in a plastic tub, dribble a TINY amount of lube on them and swirl 'til they're coated. Pour them out on wax paper to dry overnight. If they're tacky to the touch after 24 hours, you used too much lube. You should just barely be able to see the lube on the boolits. If you feel that the lube solution is too thick, just add some mineral spirits or naphtha to it. Naphtha is the solvent in the LLA, but mineral spirits works fine. The problems you're having with tumble lube are pretty common, but generally it's because of too much lube.

I very seldom use the LLA. The only times I do used it is with the original Lee directions. Apart from the time consuming and rather expensive process of swaging I find I like PC the best. Second is the LAM.

[Mk42gunner]

I don't believe there is any way to use your NOE bushings with any type of current lubrasisizer, since I think they work like the Lee system with a reloading press.

The big deal with lubrasizers isn't really buying the press; its after you get a dozen or so sizing dies and top punches (if needed) that it becomes cost prohibitive to change systems.

Myself, I started out with a used RCBS Lubamatic (same system and dies as the Lyman) and a few Lee push through dies. The Lyman/RCBS system works, but it is slow if you are doing very many at a time. there is also a learning curve to how often and how much you need to tweek the pressure reservoir.

Since there aren't many stores where you actually see the different methods in person, why not go to youtube and search for bullet lubing? You may find a system that works for you, or maybe one that you definitely do not like.

I have never had a problem seating gas checks in my LAM. I do have a couple of 450's waiting in the wings, but that is more for different lubes (totally cleaning lube from one is a messy proposition).

Robert

[Oldfeller]

Wolfdog,

This was your original question:

"What's the most budget yet versatile option for a lubrasizer type thing? Anything out there that I can use in conjunction with my NOE bushings?"

Here is my answer to your question.

Either go powder coat from the very beginning or sign up to spend hundreds (thousands ???) over your casting career chasing lubricizer dies, lube types and nose first vs butt first methods.

I have done this, and in retrospect if powder coat had been available back then I would have gone powder coat from the very beginning.

You have a NOE sizing die holder and the NOE dies cost less than LEE push through dies (most times, anyway).

Even buying LEE push through dies, you have a limited amount of sizes you need to get over time as the diameters that you shoot don't change.

A cheap dedicated vibratory bowl applies the powder, you use parchment paper and a pair of your very own cookie sheets (to keep the wife happy) and you are started for cheap on the system you will wind up liking more and more as you get older.

Or, you can waste as much money as many of the rest of us have done.

297144

Before you start buying lots & lots of stuff, look at the little die bushings that fit this thing. Somebody sells a holder to put these die bushings into a normal press.

Good luck on not spending too much money on your new hobby/addiction.


Oldfeller




New Item of Interest:

LEE and NOE have gotten together to make your NOE bushings work on LEE APP press.

There is somebody else doing this adaptation for standard presses, (I think). The video mentions a guy's name you could check into.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ4NO42OPt4 (it is a YouTube video, so click on it)

[Wolfdog91]

I have followed some of your threads , & get the sense you are more interested in cast rifle shooting with power coated boollits , so your needs for a lubesizer will be much different than mine .
I guess my question would be what are your plans for your future cast shooting ?

Honestly have no clue , I'm pretty squirrel brained when I'm enjoying my hobbies, it's usually along the lines of " hay that looks interesting let's try that !"
Honestly powder coating seems to be the best fit for me but figured sm eventually I'm gonna wanna try lube sizing because why not

[Wolfdog91]

Wolfdog,

This was your original question:

"What's the most budget yet versatile option for a lubrasizer type thing? Anything out there that I can use in conjunction with my NOE bushings?"

Here is my answer to your question.

Either go powder coat from the very beginning or sign up to spend hundreds (thousands ???) over your casting career chasing lubricizer dies, lube types and nose first vs butt first methods.

I have done this, and in retrospect if powder coat had been available back then I would have gone powder coat from the very beginning.

You have a NOE sizing die holder and the NOE dies cost less than LEE push through dies (most times, anyway).

Even buying LEE push through dies, you have a limited amount of sizes you need to get over time as the diameters that you shoot don't change.

A cheap dedicated vibratory bowl applies the powder, you use parchment paper and a pair of your very own cookie sheets (to keep the wife happy) and you are started for cheap on the system you will wind up liking more and more as you get older.

Or, you can waste as much money as many of the rest of us have done.

297144

Before you start buying lots & lots of stuff, look at the little die bushings that fit this thing. Somebody sells a holder to put these die bushings into a normal press.

Good luck on not spending too much money on your new hobby/addiction.


Oldfeller




New Item of Interest:

LEE and NOE have gotten together to make your NOE bushings work on LEE APP press.

There is somebody else doing this adaptation for standard presses, (I think). The video mentions a guy's name you could check into.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ4NO42OPt4 (it is a YouTube video, so click on it)

Yes your right! Honestly if I had to go the whole lubsizer route from the get go instead of PC I probably wouldn't have even go into casting. Just too expensive . Talked to alot of older casters who will say " I don't understand why people PC ! My lubsizer world's just fine !" Well it's mainly because for the price of a star sizer or similar I can have a pretty nice PC set up with molds a few different kinda of powder gas checks exc

[megasupermagnum]

I would be more focused on your needs right now, than the distant future. If you are anything like me, you will try both eventually. The cost thing is less of a big deal than many say. If you add up everything for each, the difference is not monumental. I'm pretty sure in one ammo can I have more money tied up in bullet molds than most people put into lubing or coating equipment in their entire lives. You can do either for dirt cheap, but it doesn't come free. Wax lubing bullets without a lubesizer is not fun, that's all there is to that. You can make bullets just as accurate without one, but it is slow and tedious. Same thing with coating though. Lots of people out there are making bullets with those dirt cheap toaster ovens. What they aren't telling you is the frustration, and work they did to make that process work for them. It isn't a turnkey operation. By the time you add up a nice oven, decent equipment, and an area you don't mind being dirty (because you WILL eventually spill coating), you really aren't that far off from the cost of lubesizers. Used Star sizers can be had for $200, sometimes less, sometimes more. Even brand new, they are only $338. It's a tough swallow at first, but then you are set forever. You can coat bullets with a $30 toaster oven, but it is about as much fun as dip lubing bullets. A decent oven is over $100, you want one that has even heat distribution, and accurate temperature control. Better add a PID controller to the cost list. Dies are more, for sure, but this is where you can be smart about it. You really only need a few dies. If you have 3 guns that all take .358" bullets, but you also have a 4th that needs a .357", you don't have to buy another lubing die. You can take those same lubed bullets and run them through a .357" bushing die. At some point, no matter what, you need sizers, so while Star dies are ballpark twice the cost of a Lee or NOE bushing (that die body costs money too), it isn't monumental.

So yes, I do believe you can get a good coating setup for less money than a good lubing setup, but the cost difference isn't enough to really matter. By the time you get that 3rd bullet mold, the difference is gone. You will eventually end up doing both, but I can promise you in 10 years that your coating setup will not hold the same resale value as any of the lubing setup. Take use of the swappin and selling section. There's very little reason to be buying new.

[Hanzy4200]

I strongly suggest you think hard before buying. I wanted one so bad for several years. Finally bought one, and 3 months later discovered powder coating. Mine barely gets used. It's only still around as you can get lube dies in oddball sizes you simply can't get in Lee push through dies. Powder coating is superior in just about every case. Just my opinion.

[Bazoo]

A lubesizer is only like $80 bucks. $20 bucks per sizer. Maybe less of us get lucky. A Lyman lubesizer can be used to size nose first push through style without lubing, for either PC or tumble lube. I think it’s the best option for anyone. The price is really not bad if you buy used. You can always sell it and recoup the money if you change your mind.

Seating gas checks with the Lyman is great. The gas check took blocks the linkage so you can press the gas check on. Trying to seat a gas check when push through sizing doesn’t work unless the gas check is real lose. Many of my gas check bullets are tight enough that it wouldn’t work.

[Wolfdog91]

A lubesizer is only like $80 bucks. $20 bucks per sizer. Maybe less of us get lucky. A Lyman lubesizer can be used to size nose first push through style without lubing, for either PC or tumble lube. I think it’s the best option for anyone. The price is really not bad if you buy used. You can always sell it and recoup the money if you change your mind.

Seating gas checks with the Lyman is great. The gas check took blocks the linkage so you can press the gas check on. Trying to seat a gas check when push through sizing doesn’t work unless the gas check is real lose. Many of my gas check bullets are tight enough that it wouldn’t work.???? Lookin like $200 bones Plus every where new. Saw some of the ones mer Larry mentioned for like $150 on eBay thoughhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220307/7b8b757ce853a607d43a37f76e3f5c04.jpg

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk

[Wolfdog91]

I would be more focused on your needs right now, than the distant future. If you are anything like me, you will try both eventually. The cost thing is less of a big deal than many say. If you add up everything for each, the difference is not monumental. I'm pretty sure in one ammo can I have more money tied up in bullet molds than most people put into lubing or coating equipment in their entire lives. You can do either for dirt cheap, but it doesn't come free. Wax lubing bullets without a lubesizer is not fun, that's all there is to that. You can make bullets just as accurate without one, but it is slow and tedious. Same thing with coating though. Lots of people out there are making bullets with those dirt cheap toaster ovens. What they aren't telling you is the frustration, and work they did to make that process work for them. It isn't a turnkey operation. By the time you add up a nice oven, decent equipment, and an area you don't mind being dirty (because you WILL eventually spill coating), you really aren't that far off from the cost of lubesizers. Used Star sizers can be had for $200, sometimes less, sometimes more. Even brand new, they are only $338. It's a tough swallow at first, but then you are set forever. You can coat bullets with a $30 toaster oven, but it is about as much fun as dip lubing bullets. A decent oven is over $100, you want one that has even heat distribution, and accurate temperature control. Better add a PID controller to the cost list. Dies are more, for sure, but this is where you can be smart about it. You really only need a few dies. If you have 3 guns that all take .358" bullets, but you also have a 4th that needs a .357", you don't have to buy another lubing die. You can take those same lubed bullets and run them through a .357" bushing die. At some point, no matter what, you need sizers, so while Star dies are ballpark twice the cost of a Lee or NOE bushing (that die body costs money too), it isn't monumental.

So yes, I do believe you can get a good coating setup for less money than a good lubing setup, but the cost difference isn't enough to really matter. By the time you get that 3rd bullet mold, the difference is gone. You will eventually end up doing both, but I can promise you in 10 years that your coating setup will not hold the same resale value as any of the lubing setup. Take use of the swappin and selling section. There's very little reason to be buying new.Yeah you got a point, honestly a lube sizer would be more of a.....the word escapes me right now , maybe when I finally get my self a sharps or falling block gun from pedersoli I'll go ahead and get one but for all the casting I do right now ( mainly for semi autos ) I just wouldn't really have too much of a use for one . Honestly the more I think about it the more powder coating just makes more sense for me lol

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk

[toallmy]

I was in your situation several years ago , just starting out after trying tumble lube , pan lube , & power coated I finally decided to just order a magma lubesizer . At the time i was looking for a used lubesizer , but it seemed that a used piece of equipment in decent shape was almost the cost of new .
I haven't regretted the purchase

[Sasquatch-1]

I would say for where you are at, just try dip lubing and run them through a Lee sizer. As long as the Lee sizer is accurate you should be fine.

If you really want a lube sized keep an eye on Ebay, put in what you want to spend when they come up and see what happens. You also may need different dies for a single caliber (this also is true for PC). Lube is another matter. Depending on how much you shoot, lube can be fairly expensive if you buy it ($4.00 to $5.00 a stick). I make my own when I need it.

As far as PC goes, I have two toaster ovens, an inexpensive oven thermometer, a couple of extra baking sheets that fit and powder and I can say with everything I may have about $40.00 invested and I get very good bullets most of the time.

Also remember, that the PC bullets need to be sized somewhere along the way.

Now if you really want to spend some money try swaging.:D

[dverna]

WD,

The good news is...every method or piece of equipment works to some degree. Some will be faster, some will be cheaper, some will be easier. Some are compact and some require more space. Some can be messier, and some can be cleaner.

People like me who are lazy tend to gravitate to whatever is fastest, takes the least work, and is the cleanest. But others are wired differently, and the time and effort are "fun". Let me explain...

The last time I loaded a pistol round on a single stage press was about 45 years ago. I have shot 250,000-300,000 pistol rounds. You will find folks here who will not use a progressive press and load every pistol round on a single stage press. Each "camp" will offer you good advice based on what they do and the way they are wired. Neither are "wrong", even though we get into pissing contests at times.

Almost every aspect of our hobby is like that. The "right" way for some is the "wrong" way for others.

I am trying to understand your needs based on what you post in other threads, but I am not sure how you are "wired". IMO you should stay with PC for now. I say that even though I have never and will never PC. For "blasting" ammunition it will do the job and it is not an expensive process. If you start chasing MOA cast rifle loads the suggestion you had from Larry (get a 450 or similar) would be warranted. If you get into high volume pistol shooting and are lazy (like me) and time matters, get a Star, unless you can utilize unsized bullets.

[Land Owner]

dverna, et al, have been "in this game" for "long enough" to offer sound advice, which boils down to - it depends! What do YOU like? Where do YOU want to go in this hobby?

At first, I did not know if I would like reloading. I was drawn to it, to save money (ha!), as an exercise in making my own, precise, hand-built, jacketed bullet rounds, and was mentored in it by a trusted advisor, who also became my life-long hunting and shooting buddy. Once I bit, I was hooked for life.

Or, that I would mature from "dipping my toes in the pond", building rounds, one-at-a-time, with inexpensive but precise Lee Loaders in 30-30, 270, and 45 ACP and COLT calibers, through single stage, to progressive reloading. I eventually sold the Lee Loaders for what I paid for them.

Or, over the first three reloading years, I would discover the "joy" (sarcastically, tongue-in-cheek) in the monotony of making one-at-time handgun rounds on a Lee Loader. I slowly converted everything to a single stage press, retooling completely in that exercise, and "doing the math" to calculate the number of rounds such that the sunk cost of the retooled equipment (including consumables) - apportioned by percentage to each caliber I shot - would EQUAL the retail cost of the same number of factory rounds (interesting exercise in that and a WHOLE LOT fewer rounds per caliber than I was going to shoot in a lifetime of fun and hunting).

Or, in year seven, purchasing an "add-on" to my single stage press that would allow progressive reloading of handgun and 223 rounds using the same dies I already had. Feeding revolvers, semi-autos, and black rifles for my own enjoyment, and that of my sons and their friends, became a joy again - and I was "saving money" all the time.

Or, in the set-in-my-way year 21 (or thereabout), while sitting on the proverbial fence contemplating whether casting lead was "right" for me (I had shot plenty of Mfg'd lead boolits cast by others), that a gentleman I had hosted to his first (and successful) turkey hunt would gift me nearly one ton (in pounds) of pure isotope shielding lead. There was no fence seating after that. I got busy researching here, asking tire shops for free WW's, purchasing casting equipment, casting lead alloy, purchasing boolit molds, making boolits, purchasing lube and sizing equipment (oh boy!), making lube(!), and shooting lead alloy! Little did I know that Powder Coating was coming as another decision gate for further consideration...but, I am STILL "saving money"!

My library of "knowledge" regarding casting and shooting alloys of lead is limited, such that through 12 years here, I have only scratched that surface. I am older and wiser (I hope), yet under motivated, and subject for me, to the stasis of "what has worked in the past will continue to work into the future".

We evolve to our own level of enjoyment. I don't for one second believe that I am the "norm" here. Eventually, we ask ourselves, "How much is enough?" For some, "no more" will never be "enough". For me, I am saturated, and have reached satisfaction...your "saving money" evolution (and mileage) will vary.

[Bazoo]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?439893-Lyman-450-lubrisizer

[Fulmaduro]

I have tried all the methods. I have bought all the equipment. I have figured out what works and what doesn't, for me. I cast for .327, 9mm, 10mm, .45 ACP, 44 Mag, 480 Ruger, and .270 Win.

I currently love my Lee APP press to size bullets nose first, using both Lee push through sizer dies and also NOE sizer bushings. Works amazingly well. These bullets are all powder coated, and then tumble lubed in Lee Alox.

I have a barely used Lyman 450, and found it was next to impossible to get some dies in sizes I needed. 480 Ruger no go. I discovered powder coating. Pain in the ass still, but love the end results. I tumble lube in Alox all my PC'd bullets before push thru sizing because some came out of my NOE molds larger than I thought, and after PC they didn't want to swage thru my dies easily. Alox fixed that. I put my bottle of Alox in a coffee cup of hot tap water and let sit 10 min. Put a drop or 2 on top of my bullets in a Tupperware style container, hand tumble, pour out onto wax paper, let sit overnight. They dry hard, if tacky use less Alox. A LITTLE goes a long way. Also remember cast bullets can and will grow in size after casting.

Use can use the NOE bushings in the Lee APP with an "APP Adaptor For NOE Bushings" sold for $19.95 by NOE. This method you DO NOT need to buy the NOE "Push Through Size Die Body" @ $46.00 by NOE. I also have a bunch of Lee sizing die bushings and punches that work in the APP press with the Lee "Breech Lock Bullet Sizer Kit" @ $15.00 from Lee or cheaper elsewhere. I bought my .476, .477, .478 custom over-run bullet sizer bushings with punches for $16.00 each from Lee. Both NOE and Lee bushings allow you to seat gas checks also.

If you decide to use a single stage press to push through size, with NOE you will need to get their "Push Through Size Die Body" @ $46.00, along with bushings @ $11.25 each. With Lee you will need their "Classic Bullet Sizing Kit" @ $25.98, and any additional sizer bushings and punches @ 12.00 each. I highly recommend the APP method best.

Great Tip: If you already own an NOE Push Through Size Die Body you can use it on the APP Press, as the bushings will slide into the opposite end of the die and you mount that in the bottom of the APP press bushing up and mount the punch in the shellholder adaptor in the top of the press. Allows nose first sizing, or base first sizing with appropriate nose punch. No need for the "APP Adaptor For NOE Bushings". You will only need to use the die body, and not the tapered guides that come with the body. Great video of this method on YouTube by Ocean374 titled "Lee App With NOE Sizing Die".

Overall, getting into a Lubrisizer costs money. And so does getting into push through sizing. And more if you want to get a Lee APP press. Getting into powder coating costs money too, for the powdercoat, a dedicated tumbler or plastic bb's to create static electricity to get bullets coated evenly, and a small toaster oven. I just bought a new one for $75 to save time.

For PC people, don't forget that you will lose brinell hardness after bullets come out of the oven. It is recommended you quench them immediately to retain as much hardness as possible. Excellent video on YouTube by TATV Canada titled "Does Cast Bullet Hardness Change After Powder Coating?".

Hopefully this information will help somebody decide how they want to size and lube. In the end this hobby will cost you $$$$!

[charlie b]

Just a little addition.

I lose nothing in hardness when powder coating. I never quench bullets, all air dried. If I want a harder bullet I use the proper alloy.

PS one of the benefits of PC is you don't need to be as picky about bullet hardness.

[megasupermagnum]

PS one of the benefits of PC is you don't need to be as picky about bullet hardness.

This is one of the biggest misconceptions I see. What it really means is you can get away with more without fouling. Accuracy still suffers if your alloy and fit are not up to the job. It is definitely a bonus if you are looking to use one bullet in a whole bunch of guns without worries, but not ideal if you are looking to fine tune a load for one gun.

[charlie b]

You get away with more without leading. Alloy has a much broader range with same accuracy. Fit is still most important issue.

[popper]

PC or use BLL. 2 coats BLL on GC bullets works fine. 6 drops in a pan, 50 bullets, roll around for awhile and let dry. Repeat. 50 yd BO carbine, near max H110 load. No leading and my shooting is not the best, just resting on front bag.
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