Who made this revolver?

[aeronc]

I think this is a 1851 navy (feel free to correct me). Who manufactured it? It was offered to me for purchase for $200. thanks

[elk hunter]

Don't know the maker but from the rebated cylinder and frame it appears to be an 1860 Army model in 44 caliber. The 51 Navy is 36 caliber and has an octagon barrel and a straight cylinder.

[jim 44-40]

Great looking handgun,buy it! Made in Italy there's got to be makers name somewhere on it.

[aeronc]

Thank you for correcting me. I just noticed the SM on the barrel and found it is a Armi San Marco. No longer made. From what I read they shot well but has some issues with some internal parts being soft due to poor heat treatment of the metal. Any thoughts re is it worth $200? Original parts not available but can I fix if if needed with other manufacturers parts?

[trails4u]

Based on condition from the photos....I'd give $200 if I were looking for one, particularly being steel framed.

[trails4u]

I have several by ASM and have never had a problem with any of them...

[jim 44-40]

I'm a little late,but Mike Beliveau on YouTube shows how to read manufacturer marking s on Italian guns.
Date of manufacture
Proof marks
Cartouche names , like 6 different makers

[Texas by God]

It looks like the engraving has been turned off of the cylinder- or- why is the front half of the cylinder "in the white"? It is still a good looking 1860 copy, though.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[trails4u]

Good eye TBG....I wasn't paying as much attention as you and missed that! It is a good question!!

[KCSO]

Either Pietta or Uberti Parts can be made to work, no big deal and the basic gun is a good one a new Pietta will set you back over theww plus shipping so go for it.

[Gtek]

ASM and CVA are one in the same. Is the SM on the left forward frame on side? They are like most all of the now and back then (and yes, even the COLT"S with Italian guts) Italian repos, there is good and bad usually to be found in each example. If it is an ASM/CVA, Deer Creek Products has about all the guts needed to fit and time properly if required. I have some, maybe a lot of some, and the one thing that it hard to overcome is the several NEW barrels I have that slug a .465" groove, I have a pair destined to have front of cylinders opened up for the .470" mold I was able to procure from a kindly gentleman here. Two bills is on the light side these days and just depends as usual on condition and how bad aeronc has to have one.

[Gtek]

Also if your new to these and SA revolvers, do not go from half cock home, Pull hammer to full cock and thumb ride hammer home with trigger pull. It will bend bolt leg being forced over cam on hammer and do no good for you or the revolver.

[Moleman-]

I have a 1858 Remington clone sold by Navy Arms around 1990 that was made by ASM. I've shot it quite a bit and so far I've had no issue with it over the past 30 years. Like most italian BP guns, don't dry fire them as it will damage the hammer and nipples.

[Hellgate]

I have that exact model. The only things I did to it is to replace the nipples with Butler Creek Ruger Old Army nipples so it would handle the Remington #10 caps and have smaller flash holes to prevent blowback of the hammer. It shot a bit high so I ground off some of the top of the hammer and deepened the notch to zero it for Cowboy Action Shooting. Mine has a silver plated trigger guard and steel back strap. With a little jiggling I can also shoot the LEE 200gr conical in it but 99.9% of my shooting is with the .454 roundball. I think I paid $130 something for it back in the early or mid 1990s from EMF.

[indian joe]

ASM and CVA are one in the same. Is the SM on the left forward frame on side? They are like most all of the now and back then (and yes, even the COLT"S with Italian guts) Italian repos, there is good and bad usually to be found in each example. If it is an ASM/CVA, Deer Creek Products has about all the guts needed to fit and time properly if required. I have some, maybe a lot of some, and the one thing that it hard to overcome is the several NEW barrels I have that slug a .465" groove, I have a pair destined to have front of cylinders opened up for the .470" mold I was able to procure from a kindly gentleman here. Two bills is on the light side these days and just depends as usual on condition and how bad aeronc has to have one.

Interesting! .... I have an ASM 1851 (yeah the one colt never made - 1851 frame, rebated cylinder, 45cal, octagonal barrel) it is a fine shooter as is, has a shallow groove barrel that slugs right at 450 - runs 451 ball
son has an 1860 army and a walker (navy arms and CVA) both had identical rifling, deep grooves, .462, then cylinder throats at .452. neither would shoot worth a darn unless we used a reduced load and a bunch of filler. I made a reamer and took the cylinder of both out to .462 got a pedersoli mold that drops .464 - now they work! good accuracy with full power loads. The discrepancy between cylinder throat and groove in these guns I just do not get !

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Gtek,

Your comment of "ASM and CVA are one in the same" is incorrect.

Armi San Marco was a manufacture, now out of business, and Connecticut Valley Arms is an importer.

CVA did import some ASM products but they are not the same. CVA also imported some Pietta products.

AntiqueSledMan.

[sharps4590]

^^^^ Yes sir.

[Gtek]

"CVA did import some ASM products but they are not the same. CVA also imported some Pietta products". I think mostly correct, if we are now correcting each other. So you are implying that if ASM made it and it was stamped CVA it is not an ASM? I think most of the information I have gathered over the years stated CVA imported ASM manufactured products to about 2000 at which time due to poor quality started importing Pietta. Who knows, I may have a few counterfeit early CVA guns that ASM parts fit really well.

[indian joe]

I think this is a 1851 navy (feel free to correct me). Who manufactured it? It was offered to me for purchase for $200. thanks

Ask the seller ? wheres the shoulder stock for it ? that gun has the cutout under the butt and the two extra screws to take the stock (maybe all Armys came like that - but I thought not?) and yes bubba turned the engraved scene off the cylinder !

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Gtek,

I need to clarify myself,
CVA did import ASM Revolvers, the Revolvers were built by ASM and sold by CVA.
I did not mean that the ASM Revolvers built for CVA were different then the ones they built for their own sales.
I simply meant that CVA (the importer) was not the same as ASM (the manufacturer), two different companies.
However, I do have an 1851 ASM Revolver which parts will not interchange with an 1851 ASM/CVA revolver.
Probably just an example of the poor quality of the product, parts must be fit for the application.

AntiqueSledMan.

[bedbugbilly]

OP - so what is the caliber? If it is a .44 cal., it is a 1860 clone - if it is .36 cal. it is a 1861 Navy clone.

Is the cylinder roll engraving "turned" off or does it just appear to be "white" due to the reflection of light in the photo? I can't imagine why anyone would go to the trouble to rurn the roll engraving off . . but you never know I guess.

As far as a "shoulder stock" for it goes . . . it's highly unlikely that the seller will have one. In years past, shoulder stocks were usually sold and an "accessory" if a person wanted one. Some repros were sold with a shoulder stock but the majority were not. I remember that in the early '60s, I believe it was Replica Arms who had them available with shoulder stocks IIRC. Be aware that shoulder stocks were usually made to fit specific reproduction revolvers and not always interchangeable between different manufacturers, regardless of if it was the same model revolver.

Yes . . some ASM (Army San Marco) revolvers had the reputation of having "soft" internals . . . but don't let that scare you away - check it out and see if it looks good, indexes properly and has good lock-up. I have know fellows who have had ASM revolvers for years and never had an issue with them. I have owned several through the years and never had an issue with them when I owned and shot them. Yes CVA imported ASM revolvers and usually they will be marked with the CVA stamp. I bought a ASM CVA 1861 about ten or so years ago that was new in the bo made in the early 1980s IIRC. It was a beautiful revolver - excellent fit and finish - smooth action, etc. I picked it up at a reasonable price just to have as a "back tip" on the shelf - I have always favored '51 Navies. I have way too many C & B revolvers and I showed the '61 ASM CVA Navy to a fellow one day and he wanted it in the worst way, so I sold it to him. As far as I know he still is shooting it and had never had an issue with it. I also ran across a ASM '61 Richards and Mason conversion one time (38 spl.) and it was a beautiful handgun. I passed on it as I was buying two other cartridge revolvers from the dealer at the time and I have always regretted passing it up.

Check the revolver out and if it is a good one, then you can decide as the $200 price you mention is a fair price. If I ran across one like that - either a '60 Army or a '61 Navy, it would be going home with me.

Good luck!

[indian joe]

OP - so what is the caliber? If it is a .44 cal., it is a 1860 clone - if it is .36 cal. it is a 1861 Navy clone.

Is the cylinder roll engraving "turned" off or does it just appear to be "white" due to the reflection of light in the photo? I can't imagine why anyone would go to the trouble to rurn the roll engraving off . . but you never know I guess.

As far as a "shoulder stock" for it goes . . . it's highly unlikely that the seller will have one. In years past, shoulder stocks were usually sold and an "accessory" if a person wanted one. Some repros were sold with a shoulder stock but the majority were not. I remember that in the early '60s, I believe it was Replica Arms who had them available with shoulder stocks IIRC. Be aware that shoulder stocks were usually made to fit specific reproduction revolvers and not always interchangeable between different manufacturers, regardless of if it was the same model revolver.

Yes . . some ASM (Army San Marco) revolvers had the reputation of having "soft" internals . . . but don't let that scare you away - check it out and see if it looks good, indexes properly and has good lock-up. I have know fellows who have had ASM revolvers for years and never had an issue with them. I have owned several through the years and never had an issue with them when I owned and shot them. Yes CVA imported ASM revolvers and usually they will be marked with the CVA stamp. I bought a ASM CVA 1861 about ten or so years ago that was new in the bo made in the early 1980s IIRC. It was a beautiful revolver - excellent fit and finish - smooth action, etc. I picked it up at a reasonable price just to have as a "back tip" on the shelf - I have always favored '51 Navies. I have way too many C & B revolvers and I showed the '61 ASM CVA Navy to a fellow one day and he wanted it in the worst way, so I sold it to him. As far as I know he still is shooting it and had never had an issue with it. I also ran across a ASM '61 Richards and Mason conversion one time (38 spl.) and it was a beautiful handgun. I passed on it as I was buying two other cartridge revolvers from the dealer at the time and I have always regretted passing it up.

Check the revolver out and if it is a good one, then you can decide as the $200 price you mention is a fair price. If I ran across one like that - either a '60 Army or a '61 Navy, it would be going home with me.

Good luck!

re the stock --never hurts to ask eh!

[Rex in OTZ]

I have a ASM mfg 1989 (1860 .44), internal parts are pretty rough, I'd broken the cylinder hand spring a couple times, shooting till it starts to bind is bad for those delicate parts, even more so with parts as rough as the ones I found inside my ASM.
In end I used Uberti 1851 parts from Brownells to repair my 1860.298753

[Jackrabbit1957]

I have a ASM mfg 1989 (1860 .44), internal parts are pretty rough, I'd broken the cylinder hand spring a couple times, shooting till it starts to bind is bad for those delicate parts, even more so with parts as rough as the ones I found inside my ASM.
In end I used Uberti 1851 parts from Brownells to repair my 1860.298753 Yes some ASM revolvers are lower quality than others. That being said they tune nicely and can be very accurate revolvers. The critical thing is to correct the short arbor, especially on the big horse pistols like the Walker's and Dragoon's.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It is odd how bereft of markings some of the early replicas are. I have a CVA 1861 Navy that only has a tiny CVA stamped on the left side of the frame, and you have to look closely to find it as it isn't very deep. No other markings at all.

I have a 1892 Win. .44-40 replica made by ASM. Beautiful and seemingly well made--but out of the box it didn't work. It wouldn't feed, and it took lots of disassembly and file work to make it happen. Ended up very nice.