Incipient Case Had Separation in .45 Colt

[justindad]

I have a box of 50 rounds in .45 Colt I paid $20 for sometime around 2010, and a note that says they were only reloaded once. The “once loaded” cases must have moved to a different box. I noticed some of the rounds had a tight fit going into my cylinder. Then I noticed in the sunlight that the brass was sinking in about 4mm from the rim. Now I see gouge marks in the rims from several reloads. Luckily, it was a sunny day, I saw this early, and did not experience anything beyond memorable at the range. It is very hard to see this without light shining on the case just right. Since reloading manuals have terrible pictures in gray scale, here’s a few terrible pictures of incipient case head separation in color.
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Fired Case:
296691
296693
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Loaded Cases:
296694
296695

[M-Tecs]

I don't think you have anything to worry about. The 45 Colt was around long before SAAMI and it suffers from less than ideal chamber verse cartridge dimensions. The older steel dies matched the chambers better. The newer carbide dies undersize the case and produce cases that look like yours. Redding makes a two step carbide die to deal with this issue. The sinking area that you are seeing is from being undersized but not enough pressure to fully expand.

[justindad]

Reviewing other sets of brass in much better condition (some fired, some resized & primed) I can see that the sunken brass is in the area where my RCBS cowboy sizing & decapping die is not sizing anything. So I think it will be easier to detect this issue on fire brass that has not yet been sized. Sized brass already has a diameter transition in this area, but fired brass in good condition will have one diameter for the whole length of the case.

[justindad]

I don't think you have anything to worry about. The 45 Colt was around long before SAAMI and it suffers from less than ideal chamber verse cartridge dimensions. The older steel dies matched the chambers better. The newer carbide dies undersize the case and produce cases that look like yours. Redding makes a two step carbide die to deal with this issue. The sinking area that you are seeing is from being undersized but not enough pressure to fully expand.
You might be right, but the sinking appears to be about in the middle of the area that is unsized. The $20 price tag makes me wonder if my dad bought these in the 90’s, loaded them hot a bunch of times, and then I inherited the brass in 2010. I might get that Redding die, just to make it easier to be sure of what I have.

[M-Tecs]

I use older standard steel dies for the 45 Colt since I am too cheap to spend the $140 for the Reddings.

Some more discussion here https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?343206-45-colt-dies

[BK7saum]

The only way to tell for sure is remove the bullet (fire or pull) and see if the brass has a stretch ring on the inside in that location.

Pick the worst looking one and sacrifice the bullet, then let us know.

It looks to me to have been shot, fully resized, then shot again with a light load that didnt expand the thicker case walls near the web. and finally resized /reloaded with only partial sizing of the case walls to give you a little wasp waist near the case head.

[TurnipEaterDown]

If the case is sized "oddly" (sized to diameter in gross mismatch to chamber, sized to incomplete length of case, etc.) then the case may not actually expand along its entire length when fired. The pressures on a cartridge like the 45 Colt, when run to SAAMI spec (or less) are too low to expand the casing near the solid head where the internal taper is quite pronounced.

If the die sizes the brass to a dimension significantly undersized for cylinder, and the pressure does not expand the case fully, then you could easily get a "permanent" ring.

Another poster was quite correct, it is a known problem that most 45 Colt cylinders are much greater in diameter than the size dies produced. I don't seem to remember that it's just a cylinder problem either, I think the dies are often small. It can often create a mismatch of ~ 0.010" or so.
This is also why 45 Colt case life is often short when used w/ high pressure loads in a firearm designed for it. It isn't the fault of the cartridge, its a sizing issue.

Other revolver cartridge dies (usually the carbide type) often don't size down the casing far enough along its length and on high pressure cartridges (like 44 Magnum) you can end up with a permanent small bulge in the region near the base. This happens w/ my LEE 44 dies. This isn't a die construction error, just a fact that the die needs material below the carbide ring to secure it.

Incipient separation (and eventual separation) most often happens in bottle neck cartridges because of case body stretching under firing pressures when the headspace is too long for the rounds loaded (bad chamber or incorrect die setting), and the cases are repeatedly fired after resizing to this ill fitting condition.
Not to say it can't happen in a straight case, but it is rarely seen.
High pressure straight cases will grow over time & require trimming, and the brass has to come from stretching the case length (otherwise it wouldn't get long...) but stretching can happen from sizing a diameter change. I have seen this when I used to partially size bottleneck rifle cases with a full length die. The body gets bigger during firing to fill the chamber, the shoulder is as far forward as it goes, the body is brought back to smaller diameter in the die, and suddenly a young reloader is left scratching his head as to why the bolt won't fully close on a freshly resized case. Then the young fella (me) measures the fired and resized case w/ a comparator set up for a much larger bullet so he can have a cheap shoulder indicator, and low and behold the resized case is longer at the shoulder...

Again, like a prior poster said: Sacrifice one and investigate. If it were me and I was concerned, my investigation would include cutting the case lengthwise with a (horrors!) Dremel Tool. (Seriously, not every use of a Dremel tool in relation to firearms is a bad idea, just many involving the gun itself...).

[justindad]

I’m starting to think that my dad’s sizing die went further down the case than mine. I’ll see about cutting one length wise.

[Baltimoreed]

I honestly didn’t think that you could have a case separation in a straight wall short case like a 45colt.

[Martin Luber]

Ever look at S&W model 52 cases? Same bulge from the unsupported chamber region. Older 45 LC cylinders left a lot to be desired. This one was likely oversize and low pressure loads only expanded the thinner brass region. Do these even fit your cylinder? The other posters are right about die sizes. Don't forget the standard changed (.454 to .452) and new dies are now smaller . I found this when I wanted less resize on 45 ACP cases.

Resize as needed and try them.

[Texas by God]

I honestly didn’t think that you could have a case separation in a straight wall short case like a 45colt.I dont think I've ever seen one. Mouth cracks, sure. I've only seen case head separations with bottleneck rifle rounds- in my case .22 Hornet, 22-250, and 30-40 Krag. One each; old brass, not hot loads. An OH, Crap! moment for sure.

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[HWooldridge]

I've seen lengthwise case splits on 45 Colt but not case head separations - and I have some brass that has never been annealed and fired many times since the 1980's. More often, I see the primer pockets getting loose after many reloads.

[1hole]

Most "straight wall cases" aren't; they usually taper a bit. To hold a bullet firmly requires the mouth area to be a bit smaller than the head area but carbide sizing rings make the whole case length the same diameter as the mouth. That means the head end of the cases gets squeezed down much more than is needed.

With carbide dies, I never "FL" size my straight wall cases, it just isn't necessary. Sizing about 1/3 to 1/2 of the case length is more than enough. OR ... I just use my old steel sizers; they are made with enough taper to FL size properly.

I've been doing this stuff a very long time. I've only seen about three head separations (in bottleneck cartridges) and none in straight wall cases.

[gwpercle]

I'll be honest ... I don't think what you are looking at is a "incipient case head separation" .
I have only seen true head seperations in bottle neck cases , straight sided , straight walled handgun rounds usually crack at the mouth or develop a up & down long ways crack .
I believe what you are seeing was done with a sizer die ... I have a few Lee Carbide dies that do this ... I call it oversizing at the base ... in just about all cases I've gone back to steel dies as the Lee Carbide dies just over work the brass especially at the base .

Lee Carbide sizer were cheap and affordable ...back in the day carbide dies from regular makers were Expensive ...so expensive everyone I knew used steel ...me included ...then Lee came out with cheap Carbide ... but in most cases they just over sized you cases and worked them to death ... I'm back to using steel dies except for a Lyman Carbide 45 acp sizer and that one sizes properly .

Check what your sizer die is doing ...it may be oversizing at the base .
If so ...back the die out and don't size so far down on the case , that might help .
Gary

[farmbif]

what brand are they? ive reloaded starline 45 colt many times and never had any that look like your pictures, but the max load I stopped at is 21 grains 4227 with 265 gr cast bullet

[Baltimoreed]

My .45colt carbide sizer die is from RCBS, I use it for everything .45, acp-AR-.455-the new cowboy special and Schofield. They all chamber fine and go bang.

[fredj338]

I dont think I've ever seen one. Mouth cracks, sure. I've only seen case head separations with bottleneck rifle rounds- in my case .22 Hornet, 22-250, and 30-40 Krag. One each; old brass, not hot loads. An OH, Crap! moment for sure.

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Flanged cases certainly have head spes, the headspace on the rim, so stretch a bit. I have loaded 1000s of 45 colt, same brass maybe 20x, no head sep issues. The pressures are usually quite low. At rifle pressures, rounds like 30-30 & 303 enfield will stretch to the point of separation. I have a wildcat 228x74K made from 9.3 rimmed cases & they do stretch to that point of separation unless sized to headspace on the small shoulder. BTW, belted cases are notorious for this as well.

[justindad]

Thanks everybody. This is one of those situations where I find it’s good to be wrong :). Fortunately, I did not pull the remaining bullets.

[The Dar]

I honestly didn’t think that you could have a case separation in a straight wall short case like a 45colt.

I have found two in 44mag while scrounging range brass. Never seen it in 45 Colt.

[1hole]

Flanged cases certainly have head spes, the headspace on the rim, so stretch a bit...... BTW, belted cases are notorious for this as well.

One of the major advantages of handloading is we can make ammo that fits our own chambers, we need not work to some paper specifications. So, forget about sizing for flanges and belts, just FL size ALL bottleneck cases so they properly fit (headspace) on the neck and stretching won't be a problem.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

About the only way to get a straight case to have an incipient separation is with extremely heavy loading, probably with multiple repetitions. The start of the thinning at the head is best checked using a wire that has short point at right angle to the wire shaft, using this you can feel the brass where it has thinned. You can see it with a borescope but the bent wire is a lot less fussing. Most incipient head separation occur in rimless cases that have been sized shorter than the chamber where they are fired.

[rockshooter]

I've has case head separations with both FC and Starline .327 brass fired in a couple of Ruger single 7s and a Henry carbine. Mild/moderate loads stopped that issue.
Loren

[winelover]

I've experienced it in a Marlin 44 Magnum carbine but that was after 20 or so heavy reloadings. Been using RCBS carbide dies since I started reloading in the mid 70's......9mm, 38/357,44Spl & Mag, 45LC. Not about to lube pistol cases...........or measure them. All the handguns are full length sized. Lately, been neck sizing for the 1894 Marlin with RCBS carbide Cowboy dies.

Winelover