25Bullberry in a Contender

[wcp4570]

Have you ever heard the saying "make do or do without"? Well that was my choices to be able to shoot a used 25Bullberry Contender barrel that I recently bought at a gun show. I was not able to locate used dies for this caliber and the Redding dies listed on Midway USA are $230.00. I decided I would have to try and come up with a way to form and load for this barrel or selling the barrel without shooting it. The first thing I did was locate a drawing of the 25Bullberry and the Load Data web page https://loaddata.com/Cartridge/25-Bullberry/1155 had the drawing, then I downloaded the SAAMI drawing for the 30-30. Everything between the 2 drawings were really close except for the neck diameter. Here are the minor differences:
-25BB shoulder is +.015 further forward
-25BB Shoulder is +.052 longer than 30-30
-25BB neck is -.056 shorter than 30-30
All other SAAMI Specs are identical

What all that meant to me was minor tweaks of the dies I chose to use is all that was needed to be able to form the 25BB brass easy with just neck sizing. I started out with a 257 Weatherby sizing die that was cut down on the lathe. That didn't size the neck enough and some bullets were loose when loading. I looked at other drawings and the 250Savage looked like it may work so today I picked up a set of used RCBS 250 Savage die that looked to be never used. I formed 2 cases and the necks diameter came out exactly what the 25BB drawing showed at .2785. Loaded a cast bollit over 8.0gr Unique and fire formed the 2 cases. The resulting neck diameter was .287 and the shoulder was formed very nice. I've been talking with user "jsizemore" about this chambering and he sent me an article about the 25BB and 3 of his fired case. His fired case chamber in my barrel just fine and his fired neck size measures .282, a slightly tighter chamber than mine. So here is what I have settle on forming and loading for the 25Bullberry round in a contender.

I start by full length sizing the 30-30 case (before I did this I crushed a few cases). Next I form the neck using the 250 dies until the case will chamber and locks in the closed position in the barrel. Next I load a fire forming round and fire the case which Irons out and forms the shoulder. I will continue neck sizing and loading until the case get hard to close in the action, at that time I can remove the decapping/expander stem from the 30-30 sizing die and full length size the brass again. A note here I screw the die in to touch the shell holder then back off a half turn so not to push the shoulder back. I've already tried this and it works.

Here is a picture of what the case work looks like.
296655

left to right 30-30, neck formed to 25BB, fire formed brass.

[Kylongrifle32]

Thanks for the post on alternative solutions for loading for the 25 Bullberry. I'm in the same boat as you are. A couple of years ago I picked up a 25 Classic contender barrel. I contacted Todd Kindler ( the brain child) at the Woodchuck Den about dies for it. Was quoted $250.00 for Redding die but he didn't have them in stock and with the current situations had no estimated time of delivery.
The 25 Classic is based on the 30 Herrett necked down to .257 with a 35 degree shoulder angle. I'm getting ready to start working with it for ground hog hunting this season. I have a set of 30 Herrett dies to resize the body. I will form 30/30 brass down to 30 Herrett and work from there. Only 25 cal. Dies I can find short enough to work with this case is the 25 WSSM which is about .30 longer than the 25 Classic.
I broke my own rule when I bought this one. Buy barrel and dies together or find a cheap set of wildcat dies then build a barrel. O' the joys of wildcatting.

[Mk42gunner]

I broke my own rule when I bought this one. Buy barrel and dies together or find a cheap set of wildcat dies then build a barrel. O' the joys of wildcatting.

Wise words.

Although it is amazing what dies you can cobble together to make work for a previously unknown round, when proper dies are hideously expensive.

Robert

[wcp4570]

longrifle
I can't find a drawing of the 25Classic, is it just a 30Herrett necked down to 25cal or is the shoulder pushed back some? If it is just a necked down 30Herrett with nothing else changed I think you may be better off choosing a different 25cal sizing die. I've compared a bunch of 25cal case drawings and it looks like the 25Remington may be close in neck dimension and at the should diameter but it will have to be shortened to use it for neck forming. I have a 30Herrett as well and I just miked a loaded round to compare to the 30Herrett drawing. At the shoulder my loaded round measures .403 (.003 smaller than the drawing), mid point from shoulder to rim is .409 and at the rim .4165, overall dimensions of a sized and loaded round is .002 to .003 smaller than the drawing. So if you shorten a 25Remington sizing die enough to size the neck down to 25cal (neck size die) I think you could load the round by neck sizing and when it no longer chambers easy take the decap/expander out of the 30Herrett die and full length size the case then neck size to load. Essentially what I am doing to load the 25Bullberry. I found the magnum sizing die would not size the neck down enough because of thicker brass used on the magnum. That is why I chose the 250Savage sizing die for neck sizing.

Another option to consider if this doesn't work out is to have the barrel chambered in another 25 cal that uses the 30-30 parent case. I don't know if a 25-35 would clean up but the 25-35Ackley Improved would and the 25Bullberry would. My brother shoots a 25-35AI in a contender rifle and its very accurate. I have not got around to load development on my Bullberry barrel yet.

I like the challenge of seeing if I could may it happen without the expensive Redding dies. Good luck on your adventure to loading and shooting the 25Classic.

wcp

[Kylongrifle32]

WCP
As far as I can tell the 25 Classic has the same body as the 30 Herrett. The shoulder is in the same area. Just changed for 30 degree ( Herrett) to 35 degree (classic) and .257 neck. Some where I have a schematic of the chamber reamer if I can find it. Bullberry used to chamber the barrels years ago. There are 7 Classic cartridges. 17, 20, 22, 6mm, 25, 6.5mm, and 7mm. I have a 15 inch pistol barrel. When I talked to Todd years back he told me the 6mm Classic was pushing close to 6mm PPC performance. But I never got any load data from him at the time. The guy I got the barrel from gave me a little of his data. He had a rifle barrel in 25 Classic which is why I got the barrel and no dies.

[wcp4570]

Wow that is another set of calibers I’ve never heard of. I bet you can come up with a loading solution for the 25 Classic. Should be a fun caliber if you can get it figured out. I think I’m really going to like my new 25. I did load some 100 grain boat tail rounds with H4895 a couple grains below max data that the bull berry site had listed and they showed promise. I only have a 2x Leupole on it now but it really need more magnification to get the most out of it. Let us know how your progress goes, I would like to hear what you come up with.

wcp

[jason280]

The .25 Classic sounds really interesting...I have both .25 TCU & .25 Bullberry Contenders, as well as .30 & .357 Herrett barrels. The .30 Herrett really educated me about not buying a barrel without dies, as I found that with my first Herrett barrel, dies were more expensive than the barrel itself! I actually ended up getting rid of that particular barrel, and didn't buy another until I found one with a set of dies (even included the trim die). When I came across deals on the .25 TCU & Bullberry, I wouldn't have even considered them without die sets.

I've passed on a couple JDJ chamberings as well, specifically those formed off .225 Winchester...not only are the dies costly, but finding brass is a challenge. That's the beauty of the Herretts and TCU rounds...brass is easy to find, and typically cheap (although .30-30 brass has gone up a bit).

If you get a chance, please post a few pics of the .25 Classic round.

[Glwenzl]

I have a 14” 6.5 Bullberry and can’t believe how accurate it is. Have since sold my 14” 7-30 waters.

I have form does to form 357 max down to 17 Jet

I also have some brass for a 25 classic but never did get one bullet yet.

[earthquake]

I have a 15" 6.5 Bull Berry barrel I bought used but got lucky, I got dies and 8-9 boxes of 6.5 bullets with it.
I will say it is the most accurate Contender barrel I have ever shot, It is more accurate then my .30 Herrett barrel.

eQ

[Kylongrifle32]

Jason
Sorry I forgot about this thread. Here is a picture of the 25 Classic ( center ) next to the 30 Herrett ( L ) and 7-30 Waters ( R ).299697

[Kylongrifle32]

Another picture
30 Herrett fire former 25 Classic and loaded 25 Classic299698

[Kylongrifle32]

From L to R.

256 Win Mag. 25 Classic. 6mm TCU. 6mm JDJ299699

[wcp4570]

As someone suggested I needed a G2 frame for this round so I bought a G2 and a Burris 3x9 pistol scope. I've shot 5 test loads with 117gr bullets and H4895 and shot them and this barrel shows promise, I want to try some 87gr bullet next. Not much load data on the 25BB so I'm having to go slow and see what I can develop. My barrel is one of the early one made in Las Vegas Nevada. I think I'm going to have fun with this one.

wcp

[Kylongrifle32]

WCP
I picked up a set of 250 Savage dies to cut down and try. As soon as I get the funds I will be looking for a Machinist of Smith to cut them down for me.
I usual take a break from groundhog hunting from St. Patties day till June 1st to let the pups get weaned. So I really need to get this project rolling.

[lar45]

How close is the 25-35 to the 25BB?

[Kylongrifle32]

The 25 Bullberry is very close to the 25-35 improved

[Glwenzl]

I have a 15" 6.5 Bull Berry barrel I bought used but got lucky, I got dies and 8-9 boxes of 6.5 bullets with it.
I will say it is the most accurate Contender barrel I have ever shot, It is more accurate then my .30 Herrett barrel.

eQ

Same here, I got rid of my 14” 7-30 waters after getting and shooting the 6.5 Bullberry.

I have brass made for Kindler’s 25 classic but never got around the building the barrel yet.

[earthquake]

Bullberry has load data for there rounds on there web sight...
https://www.bullberrylegacy.com/downloads

eQ