What's with Accurate 5744 ?

[Wolfdog91]

So I'm curious about this. Was studying up on possibly doin some cast with my .243 and started looking in the book and what powders I can actually find right now and noticed I can actually find accurate 5744. Then I noticed that this stuff is on near about every load table for most of the rifle calibers in the Lyman 4th edition... So now I'm wondering. What makes this stuff so versatile?
This is the description from the website

Accurate 5744 is an extremely fast burning, double-base, extruded powder. This unique powder can be used in a wide range of rifle calibers and magnum handguns. 5744 is characterized by excellent ignition and consistency over a very wide performance range. Low bulky density and superior ignition characteristics make 5744 an excellent choice for reduced loads in many rifle calibers and in large capacity black powder cartridges such as the 45-70 through 45-120 and 50-90 through 50-120. Made in Canada.

So seems to me the combination of fast bringing and bulkyness is good ? Or am I missing something?

[pworley1]

5744 is the "Unique" of rifle powders. If you can get some at a reasonable price get it.

[Jack Stanley]

I'm using a jug of it with my Russian 7.62x54R infantry rifle . It is working out very good .

Jack

[NSB]

I use this powder in several different rifles. It produces very good results with some loads and I always keep a couple of pounds on hand. One thing you will notice is that it leaves unburned granular in the bore after the first shot. It doesn’t seem to get any worse after the next shot, it seems to blow most of it out and doesn’t build up. Accuracy doesn’t deteriorate on successive shots. It wipes out easily.

[ShooterAZ]

It's a great Cast Boolit powder. It's quite flexible, and I use it in a lot of different rifle calibers. It turns my 300 Win Mag into a 30-30 for accurate and pleasant shooting practice loads.

[Thumbcocker]

While not my favorite it is an excellent and very versatile powder for boolits in rifles. If I had access to some I would buy a few pounds.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I use 5744 in the 308, 303 Savage, and 32 Special. It is easy to work up accurate loads with cast boolits in the 1500fps plus range. It is a coarse grained extruded powder, measures OK but of course not like the ball powders. It might leave a few 'ghost' grains in the barrel but there is little residue left coating the barrel. 5744 was called 4475 when developed as the powder for the 5.56x45 in the very early days of the M16. The service rifle(M16) powder was changed to ball powder due to cost, causing the problems in the early M16's that had to be resolved. Shooter's World markets a Buffalo Rifle that is like 5744. It is probably one of the best powders for moderate loads using cast bullets in many calibers. I have not noticed position sensitivity in my 15 to 20 grain loadings.

[Dancing Bear]

I use it in my Savage 10ML muzzle loader amongst other calibers.

[Bigslug]

So seems to me the combination of fast bringing and bulkyness is good ? Or am I missing something?

One of the useful listing categories found in the Nosler manual is figures for "Load Density", meaning that if you only fill half of the space behind the base of a bullet, you are at 50% load density; if you can shake the cartridge and barely hear the powder rattle, you're filled to 100% or very close; if you hear powder granules crunching when you seat the bullet, the manual will call it a "compressed load"

This is a bit of a simplification, but generally, for a given velocity and pressure level, the higher the load density, the more consistent the burn, and the better the accuracy. In a lot of larger cases, you need a certain amount of elevated load density for safety - the goal is to get your powder to burn steadily, not chain-detonate like chaff dust floating through the air in a grain silo.

5744 is a GREAT cast bullet powder because it's bulky, filling the case without generating the massive amounts of energy seen in something like 4350 or 4831 which are used for getting maximum speeds out of jacketed bullets. If you want to take a .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, or even .30-06 down to the levels at which cast bullets like to operate, it's a good one to have on hand.

And yeah, the big black powder rounds too - they're big because with black powder, the only way to get more performance was to use more of the only fuel they had available, and the loads were always compressed. 5744 is a tool that often lets you safely work in those big voids.

[scattershot]

5744 is a great powder for 45/70 and other cast loads, but be aware that a pound is not a pound when you buy it. A can is 8 Oz., if I recall correctly. Makes for a pretty expensive can of powder.


ETA: 5744 is indeed sold in 1 pound cans. I was thinking of another powder. Sorry for the misinformation.

[doulos]

5744 is a great powder for 45/70 and other cast loads, but be aware that a pound is not a pound when you buy it. A can is 8 Oz., if I recall correctly. Makes for a pretty expensive can of powder.

I dont know where your buying it. I have been using it for awhile in 45-70s. I have never seen it in anything but 1 lb containers. Yes its expensive. But are you thinking of Blackhorn 209? It comes in 10oz containers for about $45!!!!.

[tmanbuckhunter]

Can't explain it any better than it's already been explained, except to say it's essentially magic dust in my book. One of my most used powders.

[doulos]

To The OP AA5744 is a very useful powder. It has a lot of applications. I use it in a Henry 45-70 lever gun. I have shot a lot of 3 shot groups inside of 1 inch(scoped of course) at 100 meters using this powder and a 300grJHP.

[NSB]

I dont know where your buying it. I have been using it for awhile in 45-70s. I have never seen it in anything but 1 lb containers. Yes its expensive. But are you thinking of Blackhorn 209? It comes in 10oz containers for about $45!!!!.
You beat me to it. You are correct.

[beemer]

Maybe thinking about Trail Boss, it comes in 9 oz containers.

I use AA5744 mostly in my 30-30 but does well in a 45-70 also.

[reddog81]

It's a good powder for lower pressure rifle loads. It's bulky so it fills up large cases and gives consistent performance even with loads not running at peak pressures for rifle cases. The downside is that it's expensive and you won't get top end velocity with modern cartridges. It's about the most expensive powder out there.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

It's my go to powder for cast boolits in 762x39 and 308 Win.

[blackthorn]

I was gifted 2 lbs of XMP 5744-----Same stuff???

[waksupi]

I've used it in my .45-70 Trapdoors with good accuracy, but always had a lot of unburned powder left in the bore.

[bdicki]

I use it in my Savage 10ML muzzle loader amongst other calibers.

Me too.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2183114906?pid=932501

[quilbilly]

I have found it to be a great powder with CB's in bottleneck cartridges. The problem is price and availability. It has shot exceptionally well in my 30/30, 338 WM, and my 250 Sav. but it has been occasionally so hard to find that I found alternatives like RE-7 and Red Dot that, with care, shoot nearly as well. I now have plenty but rarely use it since I set my loads up for the alternatives.

[scattershot]

“ I dont know where your buying it. I have been using it for awhile in 45-70s. I have never seen it in anything but 1 lb containers. Yes its expensive. But are you thinking of Blackhorn 209? It comes in 10oz containers for about $45!!!!.”





I haven’t bought any for a long time. You are correct, it now comes in a 1 lb. Container. Thanks for the correction.

ETA: I just checked.My older can is indeed 1 lb. I must have been thinking f another powder. Sorry for the misinformation.

[M-Tecs]

Some history here https://www.handloadermagazine.com/mike-s-shootin-shack-3

[The Dar]

So I'm curious about this. Was studying up on possibly doin some cast with my .243 and started looking in the book and what powders I can actually find right now and noticed I can actually find accurate 5744. Then I noticed that this stuff is on near about every load table for most of the rifle calibers in the Lyman 4th edition... So now I'm wondering. What makes this stuff so versatile?

I noticed the same thing you did in the Lyman 4th edition. I have been looking for 5744 for months on the internet. Last week a friend of mine asked me over to his house because he had "something I'd love". Got there, he had bought a bunch of reloading gear from a widow. There was a plastic tote full of various gunpowder. I started pulling them out....three one pounders and an eight pounder of 5744. There was also 3 pounds of Alliant RL15. I bought all 14 pounds from him. Haven't had a chance to shoot any cast rifle bullets using the 5744. But I see the 4th edition has loads for all the rifle calibers I cast and load for.

[justindad]

Ramshot’s online data has a 14ksi load for .45 Colt and a 255 grain SWC flying at over 1k fps. That being said, I have reason to believe Ramshot data is a bit hot.

[jaysouth]

My local reloading shop has it in stock for $59.99 per lb. I still have about five pounds of Buffalo rifle left. I use it very sparingly. I cannot discern any difference between Shooter's World Buffalo and XM5744. Date is interchangable.

[megasupermagnum]

I have XMP-5744, which is supposed to be the same thing, only an older term. It's ok, nothing really special to me. It kind of does the same thing as 4227. About as bulky, about the same burn rate, about the same kernel size. They fill an odd area. A little slow for most handgun rounds, and pretty fast for most rifle rounds. Next to no use in shotguns, although you will see a 4227 load here and there. .410 might see some, it is an odd duck. I can only assume they have less retardants on the powder, making them easier to ignite. They are good to try, but I've yet to see either outshoot IMR 3031 or 4895 in cast bullets. I'm told they work better with fillers, but again, why not just use a slower rifle powder at that point.

[murf205]

If you happen to run across any IMR SR4759 better grab it. It performs like 5744 as far as being easy to ignite and bulky, but data is not interchangeable. I has been discontinued for a few yrs but some older gunshops might have a can or 2 left. Really good for reduced loads. Just a FYI for you. Buffalo Rifle is just as good as 5744 but Shooters World powder is hard to find now.

[Wolfdog91]

One of the useful listing categories found in the Nosler manual is figures for "Load Density", meaning that if you only fill half of the space behind the base of a bullet, you are at 50% load density; if you can shake the cartridge and barely hear the powder rattle, you're filled to 100% or very close; if you hear powder granules crunching when you seat the bullet, the manual will call it a "compressed load"

This is a bit of a simplification, but generally, for a given velocity and pressure level, the higher the load density, the more consistent the burn, and the better the accuracy. In a lot of larger cases, you need a certain amount of elevated load density for safety - the goal is to get your powder to burn steadily, not chain-detonate like chaff dust floating through the air in a grain silo.

5744 is a GREAT cast bullet powder because it's bulky, filling the case without generating the massive amounts of energy seen in something like 4350 or 4831 which are used for getting maximum speeds out of jacketed bullets. If you want to take a .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, or even .30-06 down to the levels at which cast bullets like to operate, it's a good one to have on hand.

And yeah, the big black powder rounds too - they're big because with black powder, the only way to get more performance was to use more of the only fuel they had available, and the loads were always compressed. 5744 is a tool that often lets you safely work in those big voids.

You have no clue how many questions you've answered for me with this

[PAndy]

Couple of us did some testing with SW Buffalo two years ago. Seemed somewhat slower burning than 5744...in a few different loads and guns, Buffalo generated less velocity. Anyone else see this? I'm not saying buffalo isn't good, just different than 5744.

[Rcmaveric]

I have a heard time finding and affording 5744 when i do find it. Buffalo Bore is an equivalent powder and inexpensive. If i have pesky cartridge/riffle combo, i can get it shooting good with Bafalo Bore. Its good stuff.

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[M-Tecs]

I have a heard time finding and affording 5744 when i do find it. Buffalo Bore is an equivalent powder and inexpensive. If i have pesky cartridge/riffle combo, i can get it shooting good with Bafalo Bore. Its good stuff.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

I think you mean Buffalo Rifle. Buffalo Bore is an ammunition manufacturer

https://shootersworldpowder.com/buffalo-rifle/

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/shooters-world-buffalo-rifle-d060-01/

[SoonerEd]

It's a good powder for lower pressure rifle loads. It's bulky so it fills up large cases and gives consistent performance even with loads not running at peak pressures for rifle cases. The downside is that it's expensive and you won't get top end velocity with modern cartridges. It's about the most expensive powder out there.

This is in a nut shell a good summary to the OP's question.

[Rcmaveric]

I think you mean Buffalo Rifle. Buffalo Bore is an ammunition manufacturer

https://shootersworldpowder.com/buffalo-rifle/

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/shooters-world-buffalo-rifle-d060-01/Yup thats the stuff.

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[ammohead]

I have found 5744 to be prone to bridgeing when using a powder measure. It is good practice to weigh every charge with all powders, but especially so with 5744. If powder granules hang up on one charge, they will dump into the next charge causing an overcharge. I would not recommend it for use in a progressive press.

[Bigslug]

You have no clue how many questions you've answered for me with this

What can I say? Years of training in a monastery at the feet of wizened Shao-Lin masters . . .;)

Regarding your other thread about "winging it" for load development - the Nosler manual's load density figures were what woke me up to the fact that every edition of every loading manual from every company has something to offer: the new developments are always handy; the old, discontinued data may be just what you're looking for; Manual A will cover propellants than Manual B does not; and (as was the case for my Pop with Nosler) one particular team's methods can turn out to be a wonderfully mind-expanding tool. Well worth rounding up a few per year.

[dverna]

If you happen to run across any IMR SR4759 better grab it. It performs like 5744 as far as being easy to ignite and bulky, but data is not interchangeable. I has been discontinued for a few yrs but some older gunshops might have a can or 2 left. Really good for reduced loads. Just a FYI for you. Buffalo Rifle is just as good as 5744 but Shooters World powder is hard to find now.

Buying discontinued powders is not always a smart move. For a load that you use rarely, it can keep you shooting for a period of time. If you can get a good amount of it, then it makes sense. But a pound or two for a load that you will shoot a lot means you are back to starting over again.

I am always on the look out for powders going on sale. I bought 30 lbs of powder I had never used for $15/lb delivered. I have always been able to find a way to use powder for plinking loads. But I do not do much plinking with CF rifles and now with primers worth north of $100/k I do not plink with CF pistols much.

WD, you are young and seem to be into shooting. Look at the long term wrt to developing loads. Getting a good load using a powder you cannot get again is frustrating and a waste of time/resouces. Like I said, if you can get a pile of powder at a good price, go for it. Otherwise, you will be better off using a popular powder that has been around for a while.

[Maven]

What Don said (above)!

[murf205]

But a pound or two for a load that you will shoot a lot means you are back to starting over again

True enough but my 223 liked 9 grs of 4759 and a 50gr Remington. That's 777 rounds from a pound and that's is worth the trouble of starting over again IMHO.

[JohnH]

I was gifted 2 lbs of XMP 5744-----Same stuff???

Yes.

[15meter]

Be aware it is a weird powder. Right in Accurate's documentation I believe there is notation that it will NOT burn completely.

Expect un-burned kernels in the barrel and chamber. On my 50-70 I tilt the barrel down and blow out the chamber after every shot or I end up with dented cases from the residual kernels in the chamber.

I load it in 6-8 big bore cartridges and it does it in all of them but contrary to logic it shoots well in all of them.

There also was a formula out there directly from Accurate to use it in any case you want.

Fill case to base of bullet with 5744, weigh that, then there was a high/low percentage of that weight that was min and max loads. I don't know if they still publish that information.

[slim1836]

Be aware it is a weird powder. Right in Accurate's documentation I believe there is notation that it will NOT burn completely.

Expect un-burned kernels in the barrel and chamber. On my 50-70 I tilt the barrel down and blow out the chamber after every shot or I end up with dented cases from the residual kernels in the chamber.

I load it in 6-8 big bore cartridges and it does it in all of them but contrary to logic it shoots well in all of them.

There also was a formula out there directly from Accurate to use it in any case you want.

Fill case to base of bullet with 5744, weigh that, then there was a high/low percentage of that weight that was min and max loads. I don't know if they still publish that information.

Good info to know if you're shooting many rounds in a session.

Same with the formula if I can find it.

Thanks for posting, I'm trying to find a load for my 6.5x55 Swede using powder I have.

Slim

[15meter]

Good info to know if you're shooting many rounds in a session.

Same with the formula if I can find it.

Thanks for posting, I'm trying to find a load for my 6.5x55 Swede using powder I have.

Slim

The reduced load is referenced in this article:https://www.handloadermagazine.com/reduced-rifle-loads

If I can find the referenced formula directly from Accurate, I'll post it here.

I do take his assertion in the article about cast having higher pressures with a grain of salt.

Start running cast at jacketed speeds and the leading can get ugly in a hurry, unless you watch hardness and bore size very, very carefully.

But what do I know, he gets paid to write. Most people would pay to have me keep quiet.

[PhilC]

I've been using 5744 trying to get my 6.5CM to shoot cast, while that hasn't happened successfully yet, I have not found unburnt powder kernels.

6.5 x 55 Swede data with AA5744 from Lyman #50:

266469 - 18.5/1674 - 25.5/2111
266673 - 18.0/1605 - 27.0/2136

Most accurate load tested with the 266469 was 17.0gr IMR4227 @ 1630fps and with the 266673 it was 16.5gr SR-4759 @ 1608fps. :wink:

https://shop.hodgdon.com/accurate/accurate-5744r

[megasupermagnum]

I haven't noticed it in 5744 either, but I have with IMR 4227. I don't think they are unburned powder. I think it is just a byproduct. I've tried to collet them, but they do not burn if you use a lighter on them.

[ShooterAZ]

I got some unburned powder in the 300 BLK, other than that it worked fine. Got the barrel mighty hot though! I think it might give the best cast boolit performance in some of the larger capacity cases.

[veeman]

Powder Valley has it in stock at this moment. 3/6/22

[smokeater]

Have used 5744 in 45/70, 30/30 and 308 with cast bullets. My favorite was SR 4759 but since Hodgdon saw fit to drop 4759, 5744 in my area is just shy $50 a lb. Needless to say haven't bought any lately but is an excellent reduced load and cast bullet powder.

[slam45]

a favorite in my 416 rigby with cast it will bark and show fire behind 390 and 400gr boolits... in normal smaller cases it is not impressive and other powders do better (2400. 4198, 4895) to name a few...