Schmelting safety Precautions & Warnings

[justindad]

I’m curious about what safety precautions & PPE folks use while melting scrap lead & wheel weights. I have a respirator and I flux at temperatures very near the liquidus point. I also stay away while the junk in the lead is smoking. It’s all done outside.
*
In addition to safety precautions, what hazards do you watch for?

[country gent]

Out side and up wind long handled utensils. heavy gloves, apron, face shield goggles or safety glasses, I prefer a face shield. heavy denim or canvass jeans, Long sleeved shirt , leather boots that are inside the pants leg. Also a hat or welders beanie. This is one of the few areas where looser fitting clothing is good thing.

Done right and paying attention to what your doing you may never reed the ppe other than for peace of mind. But if something does happen its there ready to protect and serve.
Distance is your friend here, if your pot is big enough a ladle and strainer with a 3-4' long handle keeps you back from any spills splatters. They also keep you back farther from the heat. With my smelting pot at 350 lbs my ladle and scraper strainer were set up with 5 ft handles the ladle held roughly 10 lbs of lead these were used 2 handed and I was roughly 3' away from everything

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Stay upwind. Dispose of dross and clips in a sanitary manner. Cover your skin, head and eyes. Render in batches and bring each batch up to temp to allow any moisture to evaporate. Never drop cold lead into a pot of liquid lead. Burn hazard is probably more of a risk than lead exposure.

[Winger Ed.]

I do it outside, up wind, and cover anything I wouldn't want to get burned with good quality, heavy safety gear.

[bangerjim]

Upwind with absolutely NO masks and respirators. That is my method for many MANY years! Those PPE BS things are for paranoid woke COVID warriors. You will NEVER have Pb fumes, since Pb boils at somewhere around 3,100 F. Just avoid the smoke from all the burning garbage and plastic in COWW's and SOWW's.

A leather apron for casting along with leather gloves to prevent burns if any spattering occurs is all that I use. I have cast probably 25,000 boolits with absolutely NO burns or problems. And I am in PERFECT health, per my latest physical from the doctor!

Don't overthink this thing called re-melting / casting. It is NOT rocket science. It is just safely melting lead to pour into molds.

Make sure all the Pb and WW's you dump into your re-melting or casting pot (totally different entities!!!!!!!) are 100% free of entrained water. Youd do not want to get up close and personal with the tinsel fairy! (been there........done that.....many years ago. She is a real beeeacheeee!)



Have fun and do not get lost in the weeds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [smilie=1:

[lightman]

I do my smelting in my shop, but I have 2 strong fans to exhaust the smoke. I still make it a point to stay up wind of the smoke. Blue jeans worn outside of boots, long sleeve shirt, leather gloves and safety glasses. Natural fiber clothes, no nylon, polyester, ect. Fill your pot with scrap and don't add ANY lead after its melted. I've used my smelting pot long enough that I know how much to overfill it to have a good load once its melted and skimmed. If I do decide to add lead I turn the burner down until the lead gets solid before adding material. It doesn't have to be cold, just not liquid.

Other than the above, just make sure your burner stand and landing zone are strong enough to hold the weight. And don't pick up hot ingots! :-P

[Rickf1985]

Two words, COMMON SENSE. You are working with molten metal, not boiling water so as long as you keep that in mind and respect the hot stuff you will be fine. I smelt in my garage but when I am doing the initial melt and during fluxing I open the main garage door and the side door with a powerful fan blowing out of whichever door is downwind that day. Once the smoke is done I close it up again to retain heat. I do add weights to the molten pot but I do it with a long handled flat shovel and I make sure they are dry. I also do not just dump the whole load in at once, I dribble them in from the end of the shovel while keeping the main part of the shovel covering the pot so if there is a blowback it hits the bottom of the shovel. Once you get a good load in there the top layer of lead is solidified to the point that moist ones can now be added and they will dry as they heat up. I do cover the pot for a while just in case. I have been known to push the issue with wet weights but again, I know what is coming, I have the shovel over the pot and I dribble them in. If it gets too violent I simply stop and shut down the pot and let it harden just enough to put the wet ones on top of the solidified lead and they will dry very quickly. Always be aware of what you are doing, always think ahead before adding lead to the pot to make sure you are protected. Even though lead may look dry there can always be a pocket in there, especially in ingots, where there is moisture. If you have never met the tinsel fairy, you will. She visits every caster at least once. Most of us have met her several times.

[johnsonian09]

I agree with bangerjim with everything except the respirator comment. So il just explain what lead does to people

My blood lead level tests 22 after 8 years of daily exposure to lead dust, and fumes. Using all osha and RRP guidlines for work and play so 7 days a week dealing with lead.

A lead level of 22 in an adult is fine. They change the bar lower and lower each year and flag tests over 10 now. But it used to be 40 for adults

If you have a pregnant woman or child in the house make sure to either keep them away from the pot a blood lead level over 5 can make your kids stay dumber then they aught to be for the rest of their lives.

Lead inhibits brain development. If your brain is developed it's not really a problem...

TL/DR SECTION

until you get into heavy metal poisoning dosages.. they make you temporarily quit your job if you hit 40 in the work place.

Toxic doses start at around 80 you may start having symptoms. But it's usually a tad higher.. size and age can effect dosage to see problems
Symptoms are :

Pain

Muscle weakness

Paraesthesia (sensation of "pins" and "needles")

Abdominal pain

Nausea

Vomiting

Diarrhea,

Constipation

Poor appetite

Weight loss

Symptoms associated with encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) (rare)

Lead's effects on the mouth include astringency and a metallic taste.

Absorption of large amounts of lead over a short time can cause shock (insufficient fluid in the circulatory system) due to loss of water from the gastrointestinal tract.

Hemolysis (the rupture of red blood cells) due to acute poisoning can cause anemia and hemoglobin in the urine.

Damage to kidneys can cause changes in urination



My coworker who ignored precautions tested 70 in his first test after 1 year.
0 to 70 in one year. He rolls his own cigarettes inside containment and smoked them outside but near by without simply washing his hands so he's literally EATING dust and burning it as he BREATHES it in.
He wasn't very smart to start with tho, so there was not any brain cells to lose with him. He was however not symptomatic

All you need to do for chronic exposure protection is wash your hands and wear a p100 respirator with the pink filter which is rated for particulates and light fume exposure. Wash your clothes and shower once your done. We discovered my wife's lead level [38] was higher then mine. We are guessing it was due to her handling my work clothes laundry at that time.

You really have to try your best to kill yourself with a lead pot. but if you lick your fingers and huffed the pot over a couple years it just might give you some nasty symptoms if your dumb enough to completely ignore precautions.


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[Rcmaveric]

While i am that Florida idiot in flip flops and board shorts smelting lead upwind.

I do try to do better. I just got a respiratory after all these years. For the gunk on wheel weights and because i smelt range scaps fluxed eith sulfur.

Whether i am safety steve or not depends on the weather. 100 degress out with 90% humid, they neighbors are lucky i am not in my scivies. That an not wanting explain an unexpected burn to the doc or wife.

I shoot for t shirt, closed toe shoes, jeans. One thing i never forget is gloves. I have two kinds, thin ones so i can handle tools and bot burn myself near the melt or on hot tools. Then thicker gloves so i can handle hot mold and ingots.

Check the wheather!!!! And preheat all tools. While i am less cautious than most when it comes to moisture. Its Florida after all here. Its either hot and muggy with me dripping sweat or cool and raining. Water has to get under the lead to go boom. I have been drizzled on more than once. It wont go boom.... but if you forget to preheat your tools and you plunge that sucker deep into the molt... big boom. I forgot to preheat my dipper once and just plunged it in and lost half the pot on me and the ground. Thank God it was day i wore shoes and long sleaves. Put a scar on my glasses. So i wasnt hurt... scared the wife. I sware she is bad luck. She is either in the bathroom or just walking by and spying when i have accidents.

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[samari46]

I have two pair of heavy welders gloves a buddy of mine gave me. One is used when doing any smelting of wheel weights and when casting. All my smelting is done outside. Have a welders leather apron which is used during both processes. Will have to get another turkey burner as mine is too rusty now to take any chances. The pot is a cast iron 8 quart dutch oven. Roughly 100 lbs when full. Frank

[GregLaROCHE]

In addition to what’s been said, keep your wits about you and avoid distractions. Exercise common sense.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Long sleeve flame retardant coveralls , glasses , leather welding gloves , stay out of the smoke which is easier said then done outside with shifting winds , have done this rendering waste pipe , wheel weights , roof jacks and old waste drains with who knows what , lots of range scrap .

I put it in a 2/3 cut off propane tank and use a old propane lead smelter base , dump waste oil in and any grease throw in some wood debris and let it melt , pour into ingots after skimming waste off , it is dirty work but the rewards are worth it to me .

Preheat your ingot molds and any dippers or skimmers as cold or damp they will be where the boom and splatter comes from , worked in a aluminum smelter a long time ago , cold steel tools are not your friend .

Never had high lead levels , that is more from primer dust and or oxidized lead and poor sanitary habits , use common sense , when in doubt wash .

[Rapier]

I have a plumbers pot, 100 pounds, to melt my alloy in. Never had a problem, until I did. One application of 100 pounds of 800 degree molten alloy, is a whole new learning experience, an event you sure do not want to repeat. An ounce of prevention, all that.
Had a NW FL type winter night, rain, freezing rain, hard freeze. Then it warmed up, when the sun came up. Good day to make up some alloy, I thought…..not.
Ever see a back yard, trees, brick, entire house, roof, etc, with a nice shiny lead covering. Not one ounce of alloy was left in the pot, it blew that mess all over the back yard, imbedded it in the brick, the tee bark, roof, my clothes, hair sticking out from under my hat, etc.
From then on, I always, cover my body parts, with heavy head to foot apron, heavy jacket, leather gloves, face shield, wide brim hat, leather boots.
Anything with moisture on it can cause a steam vaporization, which can be very violent.
Pre heat to dry off anything and everything you might even think about dropping into that molten metal. Best to stack the pot before you light it off, then let it heat up with the utensils on top. If it heats slowly, it will dry as it heats.
I make ingots outside and keep the ingots, stored inside, stacked and dry, in a controlled temperature, humidity, environment. Once in 60 years is a permanent memory.

[pworley1]

Outside and upwind.

[farmbif]

just to be sure, head to toe firefighter turnout gear with SCBA is not needed here. a clear full face shield I've found at the welding supply store is excellent face and eye protection, a long sleeve cotton shirt and good leather gloves, blue jeans and close toed leather shoes or boots and your probably well protected and on your way.
want to avoid synthetic fiber clothing cuz if you get splashed with hot melted lead alloy it will melt the fibers of your clothing and it will burn you twice one from the lead and then from your clothing.
and as said before by others on breathing fumes coming off your melter, well its all been said, you might get a respirator if your not upwind outside or in well ventilated area.

[Hossfly]

My safety tip for lead melting is everything is hot all the time…..don’t touch anything bare handed. Ingots stay hot a lot longer than you think.

[Soundguy]

Don't stand over the pot and inhale vapors.. wear gloves as needed.. I don't eat/drink/smoke until I shower afterwards.. etc. common sense stuff. it's not magic.... treat it like poison.... don't eat it...

[414gates]

Denim long sleeve shirt and pants for burn protection.

Face shield for spatter.

Elbow length welding gloves.

Work outdoors, when the wind is up and blowing in one direction.

Don't eat, drink or smoke. Wash your face very well after.

People get wound up over melting a bit of lead, but nobody cares about sitting for hours in traffic on a multi-lane freeway every day inhaling carbon monoxide.

[kevin c]

It’s true that the vapor pressure of lead is virtually zero around the temperatures we use, but what I was told by someone knowledgeable on the subject is that lead particles, not pure lead metal vapor, are carried out on ash and smoke particles. So clean molten lead or alloy is not a problem, but burning trash in the scrap or hydrocarbons used as reductants are. Upwind and/or an N95 or respirator is good.

One thing I didn’t see mentioned is always having a clear path for a rapid getaway in case things really go south.

[414gates]

Be more concerned with lead exposure from handling tumbling media than melting lead.

The tumbling media mixes with small particles of lead styphenate from the used primer, and when you shake the brass out, those particles become airborne.

[triggerhappy243]

long gauntlet all leather gloves, leather work/cowboy boots. eye protection and a hat. keep your work area "trip hazard free". Keep an escape path in mind at all times. never know when the neighbors cat will jump off a high perch into your pot. Stay on the upwind side of the pot if outdoors.

This is my smelting setup. 6 qt cast iron dutch oven and a turkey fryer burner. 65 pound batches,

[Mytmousemalibu]

I once schmelted down some old lead pipe gifted to me by a coworker. It was plumbing from a toilet!
Good lord! Stay upwind of that stuff as it burns off! That stench would gag a maggot! Made for some nice pure lead ingots after it simmered away for a little extra time and plenty of fluxing!

[Rickf1985]

Ok, I have to ask. The title, what is Schmelting? I think we all know by now that smelting is not totally accurate but it is accepted as the initial melting down of dirty lead into ingot to be used later for making boolits. ( misspelling intended) And Smelting IS an actual process. But now we have schmelting? And not just in the title, it is being used in the descriptions as well so is this something new?

[Charlie Horse]

Be more concerned with lead exposure from handling tumbling media than melting lead.

The tumbling media mixes with small particles of lead styphenate from the used primer, and when you shake the brass out, those particles become airborne.

This^^^. I refuse to tumble brass. It shoots fine with a "patina" on it.

I'm more concerned with lead ingestion than burns. My blood levels are between 5 and 10, with the new limit being 5. The limit was 10 not long ago. The average adult has about a 2.5 level.

I made this little set-up to smelt backstop lead in my Lee pot. Hey...Don't knock it. It works really well and it keeps me in free lead. I've processed some really dirty lead in there and it worked like a champ. My dross gets mixed with plaster of paris then it goes in the trash. I spoon lead from the bucket directly into the pot. The fan sucks out any dust. I've never had a problem with moisture.

When it warms up I'll move the operation outside.

296731

[Charlie Horse]

When we flux, the vapors burst into flame. Maybe our molten lead doesn't get hot enough to vaporize, but those flames have to vaporize any lead in the dross. I am careful not to expose my self to the smoke and flames that come off the pot.

[Charlie Horse]

I have a plumbers pot, 100 pounds, to melt my alloy in. Never had a problem, until I did. One application of 100 pounds of 800 degree molten alloy, is a whole new learning experience, an event you sure do not want to repeat. An ounce of prevention, all that.
Had a NW FL type winter night, rain, freezing rain, hard freeze. Then it warmed up, when the sun came up. Good day to make up some alloy, I thought…..not.
Ever see a back yard, trees, brick, entire house, roof, etc, with a nice shiny lead covering. Not one ounce of alloy was left in the pot, it blew that mess all over the back yard, imbedded it in the brick, the tee bark, roof, my clothes, hair sticking out from under my hat, etc.
From then on, I always, cover my body parts, with heavy head to foot apron, heavy jacket, leather gloves, face shield, wide brim hat, leather boots.
Anything with moisture on it can cause a steam vaporization, which can be very violent.
Pre heat to dry off anything and everything you might even think about dropping into that molten metal. Best to stack the pot before you light it off, then let it heat up with the utensils on top. If it heats slowly, it will dry as it heats.
I make ingots outside and keep the ingots, stored inside, stacked and dry, in a controlled temperature, humidity, environment. Once in 60 years is a permanent memory.

I will take this to heart. Thanks for posting it.

[justindad]

Ok, I have to ask. The title, what is Schmelting?

I saw the term used in an old thread, where it was discussed whether or not melting wheel weights can truly be described as smelting by any self respecting human being. I like the word schmelting.
*
And thanks to everyone for your responses!

[triggerhappy243]

When we flux, the vapors burst into flame. Maybe our molten lead doesn't get hot enough to vaporize, but those flames have to vaporize any lead in the dross. I am careful not to expose my self to the smoke and flames that come off the pot.

when you flux, it is not the lead that is bursting into flame, but the flux material itself that is burning. lead does not go into vapor til well past 2000 deg.

[triggerhappy243]

Ok, I have to ask. The title, what is Schmelting? I think we all know by now that smelting is not totally accurate but it is accepted as the initial melting down of dirty lead into ingot to be used later for making boolits. ( misspelling intended) And Smelting IS an actual process. But now we have schmelting? And not just in the title, it is being used in the descriptions as well so is this something new?

schmelting, is a humorous play on words.

[kerplode]

Upwind with absolutely NO masks and respirators. That is my method for many MANY years! Those PPE BS things are for paranoid woke COVID warriors. You will NEVER have Pb fumes, since Pb boils at somewhere around 3,100 F. Just avoid the smoke from all the burning garbage and plastic in COWW's and SOWW's.

lol! OK, Boomer.

So I'm glad you're in perfect health and all that. Good for you.

For me, the winds here are variable and gusty so it's nearly impossible to stay upwind from the dust and smoke from all the burning garbage. So I wear a P100 respirator and go about my work. Guess I'm a paranoid woke COVID warrior now 'cause I don't want to breath burning oil and brake dust. Sweet...Thanks.

[kerplode]

Also, I think Schmelting is pretty funny. I'm gonna steal that!

(and yeah, I know it's not really smelting to melt wheel weights...)

[Charlie Horse]

Never mind.