30 Super Carry Cartridge

[tchepone]

Why?

We have the 32 H&R, 327 FM, 30 Carb, 30 Luger.
I guess I am a Luddite - I don't see the need.

Marketing men at work! Separating the ill-informed from their money.

Sorry - I missed the earlier posts - the 30 SC is still an unneeded solution looking for a problem.

[Outpost75]

Your post sums it up nicely. What is needed is a modern combat autopistol chambered for the 7.62x25, not another boutique, proprietary cartridge.

[TyGuy]

your post sums it up nicely. What is needed is a modern combat autopistol chambered for the 7.62x25, not another boutique, proprietary cartridge.

^^^this!

[Bigslug]

Your post sums it up nicely. What is needed is a modern combat autopistol chambered for the 7.62x25, not another boutique, proprietary cartridge.

Not even that, unless free PPSH-41's are going to start falling from the sky. If an ammo company wants to sell ammo, they need only produce more 9mm.

[trapper9260]

I agree it is not needed , but the way it looks is that just another marketing thing and the interesting part is how long will it stay on the market . They have a hard time at times to keep the well know ammo on the shelf.

[Jedman]

I was just thinking of all of the new cartridges that have came out in just the past 20 something years and are now almost nonexistent. Like, Winchesters WSM’s WSSM’s, Remingtons SAUM, RUM’s, Marlins MX series, Rugers

compact Magnums, and all of the AR rounds.
There are quite a few of them that are based on popular brass and If you have the dies and handload you will probably be OK but most of these use proprietary brass and it’s mostly disappearing quickly.
In new handgun cartridges I like the 327 Federal and it should be around for a long time but this 30 super carry ?
I believe it will be gone before most people have even heard of it.

Jedman

[jaguarxk120]

Ya know a BIG hole is always better!!!

[Fishman]

I may be alone in this thought, but I doubt it. I like the new chamberings that come out. Reviewing the performance and the intended niche of the offering is fun. Most of us have already done this with all of the existing cartridges, so something new is welcome. Occasionally, they actually come out with a really good idea. Something you didn't know you needed or would even like. For example, the .300 blackout in an ar-15 package might just be the best purpose-built combo for whitetail hunting in Texas. I never dreamed I would say that when I picked up one to try, but now it would be easy to make an argument for it. It also works very well with cast, and cases can be had for free if you don't mind a little work. While it is unlikely that the 30 Super Carry would be that useful and popular, unless you try it you will never know.

[reddog81]

Supposedly it’s the first cartridge developed from the ground up for self defense….

What they fail to mention is that no police force or military would have any interest in it and would laugh if it was presented as a logical option over 9mm

[M-Tecs]

Personally, I do not see the need or the market, however, I also do not see anything wrong with manufactures fielding new products. Some will takeoff like the 300 BO and the Creedmoor's. Most will fall flat but that is the nature of most new products. When the 17 HMR came out I thought it was useless. Now it is my favorite short range prairie dog cartridge. Same for the 3 1/2 12 gauge. I thought it was a 10-gauge wanabee. Now I love it for late season large geese and the 10-gauges went away.

[rintinglen]

The 30 Stupid Carry will no doubt be remembered with such Classics as the 35 Winchester, 9 mm Browning Long, 41 AE, 225 Winchester, 460 Rowland and 470 Wildey.

What a pointless expenditure of effort.

[megasupermagnum]

Supposedly it’s the first cartridge developed from the ground up for self defense….

What they fail to mention is that no police force or military would have any interest in it and would laugh if it was presented as a logical option over 9mm

Your talking about the same police forces which some adopted 357 SIG. Never say never.

The only thing I've figured out about calibers is that you can never know which are going to take off or when. I see very little rhyme or reason. 3 1/2" 12 gauge got wildly popular right away, but then has been fading now for years. Most guns aren't even chambered in 3 1/2" anymore, where in 2000, you barely found a new model that wasn't. The 300 Blackout is the opposite, and a real headscratcher to me. It originally was called the 300 Whisper in 1992. It fell flat on its face. It was reintroduced in 2009 as the Blackout, and fell flat on its face at first, then just randomly caught like wild fire. One could argue it came at the same time as the AR15 really became popular. So then there is the 243 WSSM, which also works in the AR15, and is one of the flattest shooting cartridges you can get in the platform. I'm sure the cartridge is still around, but it mostly fizzled. A popular opinion is that AR's are the caliber deciders, but other than 300 BO, it seems to rarely be the true case. Take the 6.5 Grendel for instance, similar to the 243 WSSM, a real long range cartridge made just for the AR15. It seems to have done worse than the 243 WSSM, but is now seemingly getting more attention. It is often compared to the 6.5 Creedmoor, which doesn't even work in an AR15, but now every bolt action out there is chambered in that cartridge. Same with pistols. There's only ever been a couple of common calibers, 9mm luger, 38 special, 357 magnum, 45 acp, and 44 magnum. 40 S&W is the only one of late to really get traction to get into that group. And what is really bizarre is it is nothing but a weaker 10mm auto, which flopped, went decades, and is now quite popular.

It's all just a bunch of nonsense from the fickle group that we are. It has little to do with need. I'm not in line to get a 30 SC, but I'm not in any way surprised or disappointed that people want to buy it. I'm more amazed how predictable people are to ANY new caliber. You can copy and paste the original post, and it will be in every single thread about a new caliber, and it will be the same words said before the internet. I just want people to know that every time you say "a problem looking for a solution", you don't look smart. We all just collectively roll our eyes, even if you are right.

[M-Tecs]

The 30 Stupid Carry will no doubt be remembered with such Classics as the 35 Winchester, 9 mm Browning Long, 41 AE, 225 Winchester, 460 Rowland and 470 Wildey.

What a pointless expenditure of effort.

I shoot a lot of 225 Winchester both in its original form and in 6.5 JDJ. The 460 Rowlan also fulfills one of my applications perfectly.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Same reason there is a new seasonal beer out every week and a new menu item every week at the fast food restaurants. There are enough people who want to try something new to make this stuff profitable. Sure there are flops, but can’t blame them for innovation. 3M used to (maybe still do) have a goal of 100 new products a year, understanding they may only keep one. You only need one sticky note to hit it big. My only complaint is when you find something you love just before it is discontinued.

[dverna]

There are a handful of cartridges marketed in the last 40 years that were needed. Without gun rag hype, the majority would have fallen into obscurity. And even with the hype, most have or will fail.

1/2% of the market might be able to shoot well enough to take advantage of another 150 fps and/or a .1 improvement in BC.

The most modern cartridge I use is the .40 S&W.

[dkf]

Vista came out with the .30SC to try and make money and it was easy for them to get SAAMI to approve a cartridge. Only advantage it has over 9x19 is you can fit more of them in the same mag than 9x19. Thats it. They can't keep up with current ammo demand, even on the most popular rounds. Primers are scarce. But they come out with a brand new round they all of a sudden found the time and components to make. That is what burns me up about it. Can't supply enough of what already exists but comes out with something nobody asks for.

[rintinglen]

No matter what niche, or boutique cartridge one refers to, there will always be somebody who leaps to defend the cartridge in question. I load the 327 Federal, .303 Savage, 32-40, 348 Winchester and 9 mm Largo, but I refuse to assert that they are anything more useful than simply being "different." And while there is nothing wrong with being different, that does not make it the same as extraordinarily useful. Nor does it make them marketable.

The .460 Rowland makes a modified 1911 into a 44 magnum ballistic clone. I've no doubt that there are a few thousand of them floating around--one fellow of my acquaintance had a pair of them. But there are 50 times as many 44 magnums out there. If you are going to make a business decision to sell something, which would you prefer to put your money behind? Likewise, the 225 Winchester was such a success that 7 years after its introduction, it was discontinued by its parent corporation for lack of sales. I'll guess that more 225 brass is sold for the JDJ conversions than for use in 225 rifles.

But regardless of the utility and popularity of the examples I chose, right now, with nearly empty shelves at most ammo dealers, is a foolish time to introduce a cartridge that will "compete" with the 9mm. For which there are literally millions of potential users, all crying for more ammo. Now for the individual who simply wants to assert his uniqueness, hooray. A "magnum" 32 ACP is just the ticket I guess. I mean, you won't be awash in a sea of imitators when you pull out your pistol. But it might be a good thing to load up on components and ammo while it's available. Because my money says it won't be there for long.

[sharps4590]

When I'd run the gamut playing with, experimenting with and learning about all the fairly common cartridges some 25 years ago I went the other way. I started looking at, purchasing and loading for rifles and handguns chambered for old cartridges then REALLY old cartridges....no matter how much I had to invest in equipment and tooling to make/turn/form the cases. What I learned is anything that is being done has already been done. Something equal to all the "new" cartridges has already been tried. It didn't fly then and probably won't fly now.

'Course ya gotta know the history to know you're just buying yesterday's news.

[Murphy]

When I'd run the gamut playing with, experimenting with and learning about all the fairly common cartridges some 25 years ago I went the other way. I started looking at, purchasing and loading for rifles and handguns chambered for old cartridges then REALLY old cartridges....no matter how much I had to invest in equipment and tooling to make/turn/form the cases. What I learned is anything that is being done has already been done. Something equal to all the "new" cartridges has already been tried. It didn't fly then and probably won't fly now.

'Course ya gotta know the history to know you're just buying yesterday's news.

sharps4590,

I couldn't have put it better myself. I hear about these new cartridges that are all the rage, the latest and greatest. I bet finding a box of a 45 GAP has been fun these past 18-24 months. I've never been one to jump on the band wagon of a new cartridge due to what the gun guru's of today have to say about it. I haven't picked up a gun rag in years now, figure I've probably saved myself enough for a new gun. I'm not saying there aren't some good, knowledgeable writers out there, there are. But at the age of 68, I'm gonna keep dancing with the ones that brought me.

Murphy

[M-Tecs]

No matter what niche, or boutique cartridge one refers to, there will always be somebody who leaps to defend the cartridge in question.

Not defending any particular cartridge. I am defending choice. I like having choices. One Man’s Trash is Another Man’s Treasure.

As to "the 9mm. For which there are literally millions of potential users, all crying for more ammo" that was true awhile back. Not so much today. That can easily be checked by a simple online search. What you won't find is the low prices of two years ago. Currently 25 cents around is about the best you will find but at that price and higher lots of 9mm available.

Manufactures project a purchasing drought is coming. That always happens after large scale panic buying. They also make their highest profit margins on premium self-defense ammo. Creating new sales/markets seems to be a good long-term business strategy to me.

[toallmy]

I’d like a little 30 cal pocket pistol but this isn’t it . A 308 110-115 going 1000 FPS in a small , slim , single stack auto would be a lot of fun .
At least I could use the 30 carbine shell holder .

[M-Tecs]

3 1/2" 12 gauge got wildly popular right away, but then has been fading now for years. Most guns aren't even chambered in 3 1/2" anymore, where in 2000, you barely found a new model that wasn't.

Hardly, the 3 1/2 12 gauge came out as a joint venter between Federal and Mossberg in 1988. The press was 100% negative and sales were not much better. That changed in 1992 when the Benelli Super Black Eagle was introduced. The press was still mostly negative for both the SBE and the 3 1/2" 12 however the waterfowl hunters weren't buying the press. They were buying the SBE and 3 1/2" 12 gauge. The lead shot ban for waterfowl went in effect in 1991 negating most of the might 10-gauge Mags advantage over the 12's without the bloated weight the 10-gauge guns had.

As to the popularity of the 3 1/2 what manufacture does not produce a 3 1/2 12 gauge in their lineup?




It's all just a bunch of nonsense from the fickle group that we are. It has little to do with need. I'm not in line to get a 30 SC, but I'm not in any way surprised or disappointed that people want to buy it. I'm more amazed how predictable people are to ANY new caliber. You can copy and paste the original post, and it will be in every single thread about a new caliber, and it will be the same words said before the internet. I just want people to know that every time you say "a problem looking for a solution", you don't look smart. We all just collectively roll our eyes, even if you are right.

Agree 100%.

[megasupermagnum]

Most brands still have at least one model chambered 3 1/2". I only mean that it is no longer a 100% required selling point like it was in it's heyday. The last two from Benelli, the Vinci and SBE3 are 3" guns. And yes I am aware there is a special model of both that do accept 3 1/2", but the vast majority are 3" guns. Mossberg hasn't came out with a 3 1/2" in forever. Remington's only attempt at a true ground-up 3 1/2" pump action, the 887... well that explains itself.

What I'm trying to say is that in 2000, if Benelli had come out with the SBE3, it would have been the end of the SBE line. Instead today, it is a great shotgun because few people want to be shooting nearly 10 gauge loads in 7 pound shotguns.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/super-black-eagle-3-shotguns 16 models in 3 1/2" and 10 models in 3" only so the 3 1/2 is hardly a special model. The shop I work part-time at stocks the 3 1/2" but the 3" are special order only.

The 3 1/2" has not fallen out of favor with the late season goose hunters and turkey hunters. If the SBE3 was offered in 10 gauge without the ludicrous weight of the Ithaca and Rem. Mag 10's it would sell very well.

When the SBE came out in 1992 everyone offered 3" mag 12's yet the 3 1/2" 12 became very popular for the goose and turkey hunters. I own 3 SBE's all H&K imports. The SBE3 has a couple of advantages and one disadvantage. If I wanted I could get the newer version but I am very happy with what I have. They all handle 1 oz to 2 1/4 oz loads perfectly. The 2 1/4 oz lead turkey load does get your attention.

[megasupermagnum]

That's your opinion, but you will never convince me that the 3 1/2" 12 gauge is anywhere like it was 20 years ago. I don't personally know any turkey hunter that uses a 3 1/2", and while you have a point on late season goose hunters, I have yet to meet a single one that doesn't drool like a dog over my Ithaca Mag-10. The sad thing is you are probably right about the weight thing. If someone came out with an 8 pound semi-auto 10 gauge it would sell like hot cakes... and right next to the counter would be 2 pound "recoil reducers". Waterfowlers love to trick out their guns.

[M-Tecs]

I've owned 3 Mag 10's the first was an Ithaca Deluxe that I sold to help pay for college. The second was a replacement for the one I sold. It was one of the last of the Ithaca production and it was truly a piece of junk. I replace that with a Browning BPS 10 gauge. All of them were heavy and swung like a fence post. Great for pass shooting but shooting behind due to the slow swing was common on the first shot out of the blind. Enter the SBE. Hit percentage went way up and cripples went down. About 10 years ago I got a deal on a Remington Mag 10. That was the best of the Mag 10 but it still had the weight problem and it never got used so I sold it.

Yes I would love to have a 7 1/2 pound 10 gauge SBE and no it would not get weighted down with "recoil reducers". I haven't seen 10 gauge steel loads over 1 5/8 oz. I shoot 1 9/16 in the 12. Recoil would be about the same.

[megasupermagnum]

Again, that's your opinion for good reason. Most of us have since given up on the 3 1/2" 12 gauge. A good number still buy those guns, either because they only come that way, or because, why not. Not very many still buy 3 1/2" shells. There's no way to prove it, but I'd bet more than 90% of hunters who buy 3 1/2" 12 gauge steel shot ammo are either under 21 and/or not very good shooters looking for any advantage. I'm not saying that is you, you found what works for you. I can only speak for what I've seen from my small group of friends, and anyone I've met. Nobody is using 3 1/2"'s anymore. Especially when you are talking field hunting, The 3" Kent is almost a running joke it is so common. Anyone looking for more has given up steel shot. I did once I realized I could get more from a 2 3/4" shell than the nastiest 3 1/2" steel shot. One of my friends shoots nothing but Kent Tungsten at geese. Most guys shoot whatever is cheapest today since it all works under 35 yards.

[VariableRecall]

From my impression of the cartridge, it appears to be (in a really dumb way to say it) a .40 S&W style middle ground between 9mm and .380 ACP. It appears that they squeezed additional magazine capacity for the cartridge by making the whole cartridge narrower but also longer at the same time. I'm certain that it's bound to have some degree of popularity in the defensive crowd. However, I don't see myself getting any firearms chambered in it in the future. I wonder how long it will take for RCBS, Dillion, and Lee to make reloading dies for the cartridge!

[M-Tecs]

Again, that's your opinion for good reason. Most of us have since given up on the 3 1/2" 12 gauge. A good number still buy those guns, either because they only come that way, or because, why not. Not very many still buy 3 1/2" shells. There's no way to prove it, but I'd bet more than 90% of hunters who buy 3 1/2" 12 gauge steel shot ammo are either under 21 and/or not very good shooters looking for any advantage. I'm not saying that is you, you found what works for you. I can only speak for what I've seen from my small group of friends, and anyone I've met. Nobody is using 3 1/2"'s anymore. Especially when you are talking field hunting, The 3" Kent is almost a running joke it is so common. Anyone looking for more has given up steel shot. I did once I realized I could get more from a 2 3/4" shell than the nastiest 3 1/2" steel shot. One of my friends shoots nothing but Kent Tungsten at geese. Most guys shoot whatever is cheapest today since it all works under 35 yards.

The thing is I am not basing my opinion on a "small group of friends". I am basing it on sales in the gunshop and what I see in the field. Three of my friends operate pay to hunt goose hunting pits. I have never hunted their pits but I do stop in to visit with them while scouting on the days season ends at 2 PM or after dark to BS and have a beer or two. They give me their empties and 75% are still 3 1/2. I have two 55-gallon drums of 3" and 3 1/2" just in case I want to load them. I used Tom Roster's lead loads for the 10 gauge, but I have never loaded a 3 1/2" 12 gauge.

I have two other friends that love to hunt geese. I normally don't hunt with them since they always have a bunch of people in the decoys. For late season both of them are still 3 1/2" fan boys and they do keep a kill tally for geese killed over their decoys. Normally that is between 1,000 and 2,000 dark geese.

Since the limit went to five a day for dark geese I've never killed less than 58 geese over my 14 day non-resident season. The best percentage I have done is 64 with 68 shots. The best I've done in a season is 67. I hunt almost exclusively with one friend. We take turns in the decoys so it's easy to keep track of percentages. I like my 3 1/2" BBB 12 gauge. They work great over the decoys and for the days when they don't want in. Mostly Fiocchi or Federal ordered from Rogers Sports spring sales for $149.00 a case with free shipping. They have not offered that in two years but I still have 2 1/2 case left. I am way too frugal to shoot Tungsten.

The sky blasters that shoot a couple of boxes of shells per goose tend like the cheapest they can find. That is normally Winchester Xperts out 2 3/4" or 3" of Scheels.

The 3 1/2" guns and ammo will be around for a long time. With a pump the 3 1/2" has the disadvantage of a longer stroke. With a semi-auto there is no disadvantage to having a 3 1/2 chamber even if you don't shoot 3 1/2".

It's still about choice. If you want a 30 Super Carry go for it. If you don't want a 30 Super Carry don't get one. If you want to use 3 1/2" that is your choice. To claim "I'd bet more than 90% of hunters who buy 3 1/2" 12 gauge steel shot ammo are either under 21 and/or not very good shooters looking for any advantage" is just as narrowminded as "a problem looking for a solution", you don't look smart.types

[megasupermagnum]

I in no way intended to insult you. I simply can not think of a single person I know over 21 who shoots 3 1/2" 12 gauge for anything on a regular basis.

[M-Tecs]

I in no way intended to insult you. I simply can not think of a single person I know over 21 who shoots 3 1/2" 12 gauge for anything on a regular basis.

Are they late season hunting when the geese come off the water with ice on their chests? We mostly hunt in December with temps (at times) well below zero. Lessers and snow geese don't require much and for those 3" number 2's get the job done. Late season not so much unless you break a wing or get a head or neck shot.

[megasupermagnum]

M-Tecs, I'm not here to argue what my friends do. All I ever said was 3 1/2" 12 gauge is not nearly as popular as it was in the beginning. I never meant to imply that it was disappearing for good.

[M-Tecs]

No you are telling everyone else what to do based on what your friend do. You made your thoughts 100% clear with this. "I'd bet more than 90% of hunters who buy 3 1/2" 12 gauge steel shot ammo are either under 21 and/or not very good shooters looking for any advantage."

How is that any different than knocking the 30 Super Carry? I much prefer to have a multitude of options. It might not have a role in any of my applications but it might be perfect for someone else application. I have zero use, need or want for a 300 BO. Other's do and it works great for them. Not my place to knock it simply because I don't have a use for it.

[megasupermagnum]

Geeze, it was a poor choice of words. I'm sorry I did not articulate it better.

[Fishman]

Us gun guys, we are hilariously combative for no good reason.

[dkf]

M-Tecs, I'm not here to argue what my friends do. All I ever said was 3 1/2" 12 gauge is not nearly as popular as it was in the beginning. I never meant to imply that it was disappearing for good.

It does seem like it took a nose dive in popularity. But that is often how a lot new cartridges go. Many manufacturers make guns chambered with it to start and then it slowly peters out. The cost of 3.5" 12ga sure did not help any either, especially these days. A lot of shops don't carry it or carry a very limited amount of 3.5" ammo.

[376Steyr]

Time for Round Two: 6.5 Creedmoor versus .260 Remington. Ready? Fight! :twisted:

[Kosh75287]

I'D just like to know when the H[eck] the four major U.S. primer producers plan to produce PRIMERS, again.

[lawdog941]

The 30 super carry rabbit holed into long guns. I don't think I can conceal one of those on the belt...

[megasupermagnum]

I'D just like to know when the H[eck] the four major U.S. primer producers plan to produce PRIMERS, again.

The reloading gun shop here has CCI primers. There are plenty out there, but these were $115 per 1000. I asked an employee if their store would buy my Federal primers for $100 a 1000. He said no. Sure would have been nice to try out a Mossberg 940 for the price of a few packs of primers.

[dkf]

I'D just like to know when the H[eck] the four major U.S. primer producers plan to produce PRIMERS, again.

There is really only 2, Vista and Olin. Those are the owners of the 4 brands you are thinking of. They can control output how they want basically. The import primers seem to be vaporware.

The shop I usually buy reloading components from and usually has some of the most stuff in the area. Has hardly any primers other than 209s. They are selling them by the 100pk and limiting it to 3. Never saw it this bad.

[RJM52]

...now going on two months...has anyone seen any ammo yet?

[Bigslug]

Not defending any particular cartridge. I am defending choice. I like having choices. One Man’s Trash is Another Man’s Treasure.

As to "the 9mm. For which there are literally millions of potential users, all crying for more ammo" that was true awhile back. Not so much today. That can easily be checked by a simple online search. What you won't find is the low prices of two years ago. Currently 25 cents around is about the best you will find but at that price and higher lots of 9mm available.

Manufactures project a purchasing drought is coming. That always happens after large scale panic buying. They also make their highest profit margins on premium self-defense ammo. Creating new sales/markets seems to be a good long-term business strategy to me.

OR. . .you could just keep producing the same 97 octane regular gasoline that everybody already has a car for. The profit margins will be on the cheap rock-busting ammo that they make by the freight car load. The premium defense stuff that people only buy one box of to save for a rainy day won't keep any company solvent.

In a very real sense, a round like this is very much like the various methods of "alternative drive" methods to propel an automobile. There is no infrastructure, very little compulsion to create an infrastructure, and then you have the arguments over WHICH mode of propulsion it's worth the effort to create an infrastructure for.

In the case of what I'm calling the ".30 Shouldn't Consider", Federal is hoping to create an infrastructure for something that gives you about two rounds extra over the 9mm that was already selling well because of the capacity it offered (and people were happy with); that won't offer anything to anybody living in the "Ten Round Limit" states; offers terminal performance that's "almost as good"; with recoil that's "pretty much the same".

Like sharps4590 says, there ain't a lot new under the sun, and at the end of the day, it all makes a hole. This appears to be an epic FAIL of a quest to produce a new and appealing hole-punch.

[country gent]

At one time even the beloved 30-06 was considered a passing fad.

[kingrj]

Nothing but a fun excuse to buy a new handgun..as far as personal defence goes...No thug that might threaten you will care whether you are armed with a .22 LR or a .500 Linebaugh...They don't want to get shot with either...

[35remington]

How dare anyone offer more choices than the anointed favorite defense cartridge.

The nerve!

[megasupermagnum]

...now going on two months...has anyone seen any ammo yet?

Nope, and you likely wont too soon. There are still guns released in the fall, as in September, that have not hit shelves yet.

[RJM52]

I saw a Nighthawk for sale in a shop...$4k...and no ammo available...

[dverna]

Saw ammo for it online. IIRC $36 for 20 rounds of Gold Dot

[FergusonTO35]

My local shop managed to get some of the ammo in, but is reserving it for people who buy the gun itself.

[megasupermagnum]

My local shop managed to get some of the ammo in, but is reserving it for people who buy the gun itself.

What are they asking for the M&P sheild in 30 SC?

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I was shooting powder coated cast today out of my G 34.5 and enjoying the heck out of it. And most of the brass i have was picked up off the ground. I do have to admit some interst in the .327 fed. mag. If i could find a long barreled single seven for a not ridiculous price i would get one.

[FergusonTO35]

As I remember it was like $40.00 more than the 9mm.

[Ed in North Texas]

Your post sums it up nicely. What is needed is a modern combat autopistol chambered for the 7.62x25, not another boutique, proprietary cartridge.

My immediate thought was this was a redesign of the 7.63 (.30) Mauser/7.62x25mm Tokarev. Ballistics are similar to the Tokarev reload with 100 grain XTP and something over 5 grains of Power Pistol (a bit over 1200 fps vs the data in Firearms News of factory Federal 100 grain HST @ 1230 and Remington 100 grain HTP @ 1250 fps.

The sole advantage I can see over either the 7.62/7.63 or the 9x19mm is the straight walled cartridge allowing more cartridges loaded in the magazine.

[megasupermagnum]

My immediate thought was this was a redesign of the 7.63 (.30) Mauser/7.62x25mm Tokarev. Ballistics are similar to the Tokarev reload with 100 grain XTP and something over 5 grains of Power Pistol (a bit over 1200 fps vs the data in Firearms News of factory Federal 100 grain HST @ 1230 and Remington 100 grain HTP @ 1250 fps.

The sole advantage I can see over either the 7.62/7.63 or the 9x19mm is the straight walled cartridge allowing more cartridges loaded in the magazine.

Yeah, except 7.62 Tokarev has never fit in an American pistol. I'm truly baffled why people keep drawing this conclusion. It's like comparing 5.7x28 to 22 hornet. Despite similar ballistics, they share NOTHING else in common. Surely we aren't about to start arguing how 5.7x28 is pointless because 22 hornet is just as good in a semi-auto pistol.

30 super carry is a hot 32 acp. Similar to 38 super compared to 9mm luger. Personally I think they messed up by not having a specific gun made for this, but no, I don't think a 7.62 Tokarev has any potential at all in the small concealed carry market. It's simply too long.

[Texas by God]

Let's reach back 120plus years and hop up the .30Luger cartridge for this. Same capacity as 9mm but way cooler.
Just kidding.

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[goryshaw]

As much as I like 32s i find i have a couple hundred 32H&R that wont chamber in my single seven, probably the rcbs 32/98 is cast oversize for it

[Daekar]

I got a chance to stop by the local shop this afternoon and they had a S&W Shield EZ in 30SC, so I asked if they had any ammo. They did, and gave me permission to open the box. Damn those little cartridges are cute! They really do look like a 32acp all grown up.

If I were a factory ammo semi-auto kind of guy I would certainly be interested, any performance disparity with 9mm is almost certainly too small to matter in most cases.

It makes me wish there were more guns in 327mag...

[megasupermagnum]

More guns are chambered in 327 Federal than most realize. The list has changed over time, and particular configurations come and go. As of now you can get it in most Ruger's, The LCR, SP101, GP100, and Single 7. They used to have it in the Blackhawk. As far as I know, Charter arms still makes their snub nose in it, they used to have a target model, no idea if they still do. Freedom Arms has always offered their 97 in it. Henry still makes both a lever action 20" rifle, and 16.5" carbine in it. I would not be surprised one bit if we see a Ruger/Marlin in 327 in the next year or two. I doubt it is a still a standard model, but you could get the Magnum Research BFR in 327 through the custom shop. The big news is Taurus just released their new model 327 in you guessed it, 327 federal. While I do think S&W is missing the boat by not offering a 7-shot K frame in it, that's their problem. All it takes is a simple chamber job to a model 16 as it is. Who wants a lock on their handgun anyway?

The 327 federal came out in one handgun, the SP101. It grew steadily from there. Maybe Federal is thinking the 30 SC will do the same, but I'm guessing it will not do as well. Kind of odd that S&W has never really cared about the 327, but jumped right in with the 30 SC.

[Green Frog]

IMHO, the perfect matchups of revolver and cartridge for the 327 would be the “new” Ruger Blackhawk Flat Top and the S&W K frame. I have had the Ruger Single Seven in my hand and own both a 32 H&R Buckeye Spl Blackhawk and a stainless Blackhawk Eight Shooter in 327 (both “Super BH” frames). The only complaint I hear about them (but don’t necessarily share) is that they are a little larger than needed., hence my choice of the mid-size new Flat Top. I have had a custom stainless S&W 327 built on a Model 66 donor gun. I regard this as the ideal gun on a S&W frame. Smith has actually made some J frames in 327, but I kinda regard that as “too much of a good thing”.

The only current offering for a rifle or carbine in the caliber is from Henry, but I have high hopes that Ruger, with its acquisition of Marlin, may introduce one as well. A Ruger Flat Top paired with a Rug-Mar lever gun in 327? There’s a pair to ride the range with!

Froggie

[Thundermaker]

This cartridge isn't really new. It's just slightly hotter 7.65 French long. To my mind, it is to 9mm as .40 is to .45. In short, it's kinda pointless. It gives you a couple more rounds in the magazine at the cost of effectiveness and higher pressures.

[FergusonTO35]

The .327 had the misfortune of being introduced right before a massive election-induced ammo and components panic which has returned several times. Gun and ammo makers are always going to produce what is guaranteed to sell, and 9mm and 5.56 are king and queen. They aren't going to devote much if any capacity to guns and cartridges with at best modest popularity when demand for the latter two is red hot. In fact, even the gold standard hunting rounds (.30'06, .30-30, .243 etc.) have largely yielded as well.

[calm seas]

...now going on two months...has anyone seen any ammo yet?

Seeing fuller - not full - shelves here in Alaska. And I could almost always find 10MM. The oddballs may be your friend in an ammo shortage.

[megasupermagnum]

The .327 had the misfortune of being introduced right before a massive election-induced ammo and components panic which has returned several times. Gun and ammo makers are always going to produce what is guaranteed to sell, and 9mm and 5.56 are king and queen. They aren't going to devote much if any capacity to guns and cartridges with at best modest popularity when demand for the latter two is red hot. In fact, even the gold standard hunting rounds (.30'06, .30-30, .243 etc.) have largely yielded as well.

That's true, and I think it only speaks to how well the cartridge really did. It was never going to replace the 357, but it sure seems to have taken hold in the marketplace and should be with us for many decades. This time around, when 357 magnums are hard to come by, 327's are on the shelf. Today at the store I had a choice of a Federal hydrashok, Speer gold dot, Federal AE, and Federal hammerdown. They are selling too, so I'm not the only one. Plus there was both a few boxes of Federal 32 H&R and Winchester 32 ACP. By comparison, I did not see a single choice of 357 magnum, and only a few boxes of 38 special +p. I think people are going to take notice of this, which is why I think it is still dumb they didn't make this 30 SC one of the 32 family. The best they can do now is offer a convertible 30sc/327 single seven or blackhawk.

[Handloader109]

It's a silly round. I've a 9mm shield EZ. Nice pistol, fairly small and the slide really is easier to rack than any of my other 9mm guns, small like the PPQ, or micro like my kimber micro 9, which is really a bear to operate.
But I can get an 8 round mag for the kimber and the ez only has 8. So both have 9 rounds fully loaded. 2 more is only 10. And ballistics are the same. If I really want to carry more than 9 rounds, it is one more magazine, or just the PPQ with 18 rounds with no need in extra mag, or 35 if I really want to load up.... that would take 3 spare and a full gun to match with the 30 dumb....

I was look at one of the keltec fun guns in 5.7x39.... till I was looking for ammo. None to find anywhere. 30sc will be that same thing in a couple of years ...

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[Ruger45Bisley]

It probably wont be particularly successful but I'm not rooting for it to fail, the concept isnt bad because it plays off the low recoil/high capacity virtues that has made the 9mm so popular. It gives more capacity than 9mm and from what Ive seen so far, similar recoil. Is it needed? Probably not but if we got real serious there's a lot of options out there that aren't necessary either, but that would get boring wouldn't it? Maybe it'll lead to a Blackhawk or Single Seven 327 Mag/30 SC convertible one day.

[Daekar]

It probably wont be particularly successful but I'm not rooting for it to fail, the concept isnt bad because it plays off the low recoil/high capacity virtues that has made the 9mm so popular. It gives more capacity than 9mm and from what Ive seen so far, similar recoil. Is it needed? Probably not but if we got real serious there's a lot of options out there that aren't necessary either, but that would get boring wouldn't it? Maybe it'll lead to a Blackhawk or Single Seven 327 Mag/30 SC convertible one day.

So, I would go so far as to say that, all things being equal, I would rather have 30SC than 9mm. I would prefer less recoil and I want to carry a little gun without giving up capacity. You can fit a 9mm in a little tiny gun, but they aren't any fun to shoot or practice with.

Of course, I am now a revolver convert and won't be buying any semis except 22LR...