Well....that was easy... Cast.223 success

[Wolfdog91]

So umm yeah as alot of y'all know I've been messing around with cast .223 out my my Lil AR-15 for close to a year now been doin ALOT of stuff a so far best group was like 1.3" @50yd. Well I got this New H&R ultra varmit in .223 right. Weird weird quirky little gun when it come to reloading and shooting it but that another story. Anyhow just kinda said what the heck today and did some load development in like......man couldn't have been more then 30min. Took the split case CBTO guage stuck one of my Lee boolits in it found jam backed off twenty thou
Btw this gun really makes me set them in deep with I found weird but hay it what it wants sooo.
Checked out my AR's best load dropped down a grain did three three round load groups in .3 grain increments aaaannnnnnnddd yeah.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220219/083f52819b4b3a9b79ec4f491af0e37f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220219/44018e280838575c02fd485c0c28be0b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220219/bf2ed35cba0b464f6cedf64de8d944ae.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220219/df37a34cddc80bf3a40bf5155b0ea677.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220219/37b4f25c043bb6a3aa2514e4ebcf230a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220219/548bedae399ac75760107699b4ec3449.jpg

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[Winger Ed.]

It was easy?

Hmmmm,,,, you must be missing something.:bigsmyl2:

[RKJ]

It was easy?

Hmmmm,,,, you must be missing something.:bigsmyl2:

That's what I thought when I read that too. I tried cast in an AR and after much frustration and some throwing things (Just kidding about that) I bought a Rem 700 in .223 tried it w/o much luck I then put my molds away and bought a bunch of jacketed. I'm much happier and my wife let me back in the house too. :)

[Dusty Bannister]

So now that is done, do you feel like "Oh WOW" or "Gee, now what do I do"?

You already had some of the research done with the AR and then you just went with the basics. Good job.

[Winger Ed.]

That's what I thought when I read that too. I tried cast at from an AR and after much frustration and some throwing things

I have to chuckle,,,
I read up on everyone else's adventures with .223 cast with the AR platform when I started shooting my old Colt SP1 more.
I soon figured out it wasn't for me as long as I could buy seconds of 55gr SP and FMJ in bulk on the cheap.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Feels good when it comes together! 1 in 12” on the Ultra Varmint? What alloy? Water dropped?

[gwpercle]

ATTABOY Wolfdog .... You proved it can be done :drinks:

Well done ... I like your H&R Ultra single shot rig ...it's sweet !
And Congratulations on successful load development ...
Gary

[elmacgyver0]

Don't think it means what you think it means.
I was being assisted by Honeywell TAC (technical assistance) many years ago to get a new version of HVAC software to migrate graphics from a JACE (Java Application Control Engine)
to a supervisor computer, Three and a half hours later we finally got one graphic to migrate.
The Honeywell tech said in a slow drawl "Well... that was easy"

[Thumbcocker]

Sweet!

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[Hannibal]

Curious to see what a couple of 5 shot groups @100yds will look like.

[charlie b]

Don't think it means what you think it means.
I was being assisted by Honeywell TAC (technical assistance) many years ago to get a new version of HVAC software to migrate graphics from a JACE (Java Application Control Engine)
to a supervisor computer, Three and a half hours later we finally got one graphic to migrate.
The Honeywell tech said in a slow drawl "Well... that was easy"

Yep, sometimes it isn't how it reads but how it is said :)

[Martin Luber]

Looks like lipstick!

[Wolfdog91]

Feels good when it comes together! 1 in 12” on the Ultra Varmint? What alloy? Water dropped?Yep 1in12 twist. Alloy in there's should be 100% clip on wheel weights . Water dropped after initial casting and water dropped again after power coating. Bhn around 19-20

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[Wolfdog91]

So now that is done, do you feel like "Oh WOW" or "Gee, now what do I do"?

You already had some of the research done with the AR and then you just went with the basics. Good job.Yeah with all the findings from the AR this was just muscle memory at this point.
Brass wet tumbler
Brass fire formed 4x
Anneled 4x
Shoulders uniformed to 1.450-1.451
Trimmed Chamfered deburred then tumbled in white rice.
Bullets sized to .225 not .224 then weight sorted in .1gr increments and shot As such after gas checking .
Find the rifles jam point with the bullet I wanna use then back off 20 thousands
Slight bell on the case mouth
Prime below flush
Charge cases in .3gr increments
Seat bullets half way turn case 2x while seating.

Only deal is with this gun I HAVE TO shoot in five minute intervals to left the barrel properly cool.
And yeah lol when I saw this groups I kinda shrugged and was like " well..... That's cool and all but hmph....do I just load more orrrr ??? Used to there being more load development then this lol !"

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[Wolfdog91]

Curious to see what a couple of 5 shot groups @100yds will look like.I'm planning on it but need to get a day where I have a long time two wait between shots

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[doghawg]

I almost wish I wouldn't have read this. I know where there's a Henry .223 and there's RCBS 55 gr. gas check molds at Midsouth.............

[Wolfdog91]

It was easy?

Hmmmm,,,, you must be missing something.:bigsmyl2:

Yeah the AR is a different animal all together, lol

[Land Owner]

Yeah..."easy" is not in my vocabulary in two H&R's (223's x 1:9 Bull barrel and 1:12 Standard barrel). Glad you got yours "under control".

I've tried 50 gr. Bators, 55 gr. alloy SP's, 49/49/2% - Pb/WW/Sn, air and water quenched, some PC'd, four (4) different powders, lead boolit velocities, even vaporized some PC'd at jacketed velocities. All of the "success" I have had tells me what NOT to do again.

[pworley1]

Good work. Congratulations.

[charlie b]

Yeah with all the findings from the AR this was just muscle memory at this point.
Brass wet tumbler
Brass fire formed 4x
Anneled 4x
Shoulders uniformed to 1.450-1.451
Trimmed Chamfered deburred then tumbled in white rice.
Bullets sized to .225 not .224 then weight sorted in .1gr increments and shot As such after gas checking .
Find the rifles jam point with the bullet I wanna use then back off 20 thousands
Slight bell on the case mouth
Prime below flush
Charge cases in .3gr increments
Seat bullets half way turn case 2x while seating.

Only deal is with this gun I HAVE TO shoot in five minute intervals to left the barrel properly cool.
And yeah lol when I saw this groups I kinda shrugged and was like " well..... That's cool and all but hmph....do I just load more orrrr ??? Used to there being more load development then this lol !"

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Hey, look at you. Using all these big words correctly :) Just a while ago you were trying to figure out how to reload.

Congratulations!!!

And, yeah, sometimes load development is 'easy'. You get the load right the first couple of times and then just have fun shooting.

[Rapier]

A measurable positive difference is 223 cast is a good thing. David White did a lot of work with the H&R rifle, most guns he just rebarreled with a quality barrel to get to the accuracy and performance level he was after..

The AR system offers its own set of challenges for a fact. Just to start with, the barrel rifling process is not intended to produce a great cast bullet platform. The barrel coatings are not necessarily conducive to the use of cast.
My best success has come with 7mm to 35 cal stainless steel barrels. Not so much nitrided chrome molly. The 5-R rifling, well, half worn out land surfaces do not show me much, especially for cast bullet shooting. Seems to be more hype than anything else. Higher jacketed bullet velocities do do much for cast

[dverna]

Anyone who pats you on the back for getting a good three shot group is either not very experienced or blowing smoke up your keister.

But we are in a "feel good" society where "no child is left behind" and participation awards are the norm. Folks do not want to tell the truth about performance for fear of offending someone.

If the other 3 shot group fired with loads .3 gr different shot like crap, you are not done. In any case, you have been around long enough to you know you need at least five 5 shot groups or two 10 shot groups to determine if you have a good load. Ringing steel is less demanding, but holes in paper tell the real story.

Keep us posted as you get more rounds downrange. Like a couple of others who commented who went down this path, it is not easy. But sometimes things fall together.

I have a PM coming to you.

[Outer Rondacker]

Well done, Wolfdog. I have one little piece of advice. On you shot card you have all the needed info. I would just add what rifle it was shot out of and perhaps the weather conditions, barrle twist and so on. It's not needed but like you said that rifle likes them set back far. Love the single shots. I dont know what it is but they just feel good in the hands. Something you do not find in my area much.

As for you other guys who quit casting .22 boolits. Send them molds my way, don't need them sitting around getting rusty at your places. :)

[John Guedry]

Man thats NICE .

[GhostHawk]

My advice, once you have 3 close together start pushing the range.

I had an H&R Handi rifle in .444marlin give me a cloverleaf at 25 yards when sighting in the scope. New paper, 50 yards another cloverleaf.
New paper 75 yards another, last paper, 100 yards 2 perfect shots, opperator pulled the last shot a half inch up and left. My fault purely, rifle was consistent as a clock.

IMO you don't need to let the barrel cool "that" much. 1 minute is fine. After a long string yes you may want to let it cool some. Shouldn't need it between every shot.

Overall I find my Handi rifle single shots MUCH easier to do load development for. So once figured out for it, I'll move on to the same cartridge on a different platform. With the lessons learned on the single shot firmly in mind.

Your off to a great start, but keep pushing the distance! 25 or 50 yards means nada.

100 yards is the gold standard, and it should be 5 shots at minimum, preferably 10.
This will show you the true picture of what a rifle can do.

[charlie b]

The 'standard' shot group for light profile barrels is 3 rounds. Why? Because they start to heat up and wander.

Yes, to be very precise about it you need to have a 10 shot group to show consistency in accuracy, but, with a light profile barrel there will be cooling down between shots.

There is still nothing wrong with a 1.3MOA group using cast bullets from a very inexpensive single shot rifle. Even if it is a 3 shot group.

[Wolfdog91]

My advice, once you have 3 close together start pushing the range.

I had an H&R Handi rifle in .444marlin give me a cloverleaf at 25 yards when sighting in the scope. New paper, 50 yards another cloverleaf.
New paper 75 yards another, last paper, 100 yards 2 perfect shots, opperator pulled the last shot a half inch up and left. My fault purely, rifle was consistent as a clock.

IMO you don't need to let the barrel cool "that" much. 1 minute is fine. After a long string yes you may want to let it cool some. Shouldn't need it between every shot.

Overall I find my Handi rifle single shots MUCH easier to do load development for. So once figured out for it, I'll move on to the same cartridge on a different platform. With the lessons learned on the single shot firmly in mind.

Your off to a great start, but keep pushing the distance! 25 or 50 yards means nada.

100 yards is the gold standard, and it should be 5 shots at minimum, preferably 10.
This will show you the true picture of what a rifle can do.You know I said the same thing but I swear this one is weird.
Wish I took a picture but did an experiment. Too the best jacketed load to date shot it back to back no cooling. Printed like 1.5" groups back to back. Ok gave it like 2min between shots dropped down to like 1" groups. Ok then I finally just said whatever would take a shot get up and go walk around the pasture,look at flowers play on my phone and come back and take another shot , was at least like 5min if not more and got this
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220221/96bf89a90c5f67b047461d256c2835d1.jpg

And I've run probably 25rd of the same exact load and doing that did this so I guess lol.
But apparently some of these barrels weren't stress relieved so that explains alot I guess.
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[Thumbcocker]

Every rifle has its own personality.

[Wolfdog91]

Well took it out to 100yd today and it was doin good but didn't give my self enough time for the barrel to cool probably ( didn't factor in moving cows feo.out of the pasture and waiting 5-15 in between wind gusts lol )and welll lol
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220221/a034e2d8478be713785e487b3a1aa8f3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220221/4059ebf3c6732181073f456e5acebe2d.jpg
Still better then the AR though [emoji16] hopefully can get out tomorrow and run then other ones real better will say though these boolits looked like they where from a later batch because the power coat wasn't neat as nice as the last batch I shot. Yeah didn't understand you couldn't just leave PC page open in a high humidity environment without problems lol [emoji28] but hay lessons learned. Still got a bunch of the nice ones though front first batch that are gas checked and weight sorted in .5gr incriminates guess I'll just go and sort all of them

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[charlie b]

Yep, little things can mess up groups. Barrel temp is one of them, in some guns. My .223 Axis prints to same POI no matter how hot it gets, and keeps the rounds in 1/2MOA clusters as long as the wind isn't blowing :) I've had that barrel hot enough I had to put it in the shade to cool down before I could put it in the case. Way too hot to touch. Summer days out here, and rapid fire will do that.

My Model 12 in .308 is VERY sensitive to temperature. The large barrel on it needs to cool between shots, every shot, even though it is a heavy varmint contour.

[Outer Rondacker]

Had a 7 mill ultra mag needed five mins to cool after each shot. One of the only guns i ever sold.

[dverna]

Had a 7 mill ultra mag needed five mins to cool after each shot. One of the only guns i ever sold.

Agree. I would not own a gun that has to cool down after every shot.

[Charlie Horse]

Wolfdog; are you putting a gas check on those Lee 55 grain boolits? Sorry if you said so and I missed it.
Thanks for the write-up. My Tikka has a 1 in 12 twist. It needs some range trips.

I've never tried Accurate 2015. Maybe I should.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The wind will really mess with the flat nose bullets when you start to reach out farther. Like Land Owner said, working with a slower twist barrel can make a big difference when shooting cast bullets, it used to make a difference with jacketed (20-50 years ago) but bullets are better now. I had a 22 Hornet with a 1-16 twist that shot cast wonderfully, but that was over 50 years ago. As you increase your range, you may find that tweaking the powder charge a little, up or down might tighten the group. The longer the range, the more this becomes noticeable. I do have a couple rifles that will shoot a cold barrel an inch or two away from of the warm barrel. If you keep a 'steady' cadence, quite often the following shots from the warmed barrel will stay in a tighter group. Enjoy your successes.

[VariableRecall]

This sounds like a lame question, but what's your gas-checking solution Wolfdog? Do you purchase them in bulk or do you make your own? What's your favorite source for them?

I had purchased a lubrisizer from Lyman (Which still is pending shipping since last August), so I do have some way to actually seat gas checks on any projectile I come across with the proper lubrisizing die. Any reason you size your .223 projectiles to .225?

I actually have a .224 bullet sizing die for my baby hand press, but that has no method of seating gas checks.

[Wolfdog91]

Wolfdog; are you putting a gas check on those Lee 55 grain boolits? Sorry if you said so and I missed it.
Thanks for the write-up. My Tikka has a 1 in 12 twist. It needs some range trips.

I've never tried Accurate 2015. Maybe I should.Yes siiiiirrr !https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220225/75a44bc26921467010c03e5e66466f5f.jpg

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[Wolfdog91]

This sounds like a lame question, but what's your gas-checking solution Wolfdog? Do you purchase them in bulk or do you make your own? What's your favorite source for them?

I had purchased a lubrisizer from Lyman (Which still is pending shipping since last August), so I do have some way to actually seat gas checks on any projectile I come across with the proper lubrisizing die. Any reason you size your .223 projectiles to .225?

I actually have a .224 bullet sizing die for my baby hand press, but that has no method of seating gas checks.Right now I just use the he NOE deal. Kinda press the GC on a little by hand run it up though the die and boom done.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220225/c10f93cc21d005f136bfb94d179555bf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220225/a978191d9fd18c4c93733900664a7554.jpg

As far as gas checks I bought a thousand Hornady ones off somone when I first started casting and I still have a bunch left

As far as the .225 thing,well just kinda made sense for me honestly, was actually really confused why most people size them to .224 when jacked rounds are .224 and when you cast anything elese you always do .001-.003 over jacketed . Most everyone I talked to who said they had these huge 10" groups @ 100yd said they sized down to .224 . Thinking about trying .226 and .227 next but I'm talking with a cast bench rest guy and he's saying he's getting consistent 1-1.5" @ 100yd with various .22cals including .223 with just a .225 so I'll seehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220225/7e9f192435eea0192e62ee71f52c9ffe.jpg

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[VariableRecall]

Right now I just use the he NOE deal. Kinda press the GC on a little by hand run it up though the die and boom done.

As far as gas checks I bought a thousand Hornady ones off somone when I first started casting and I still have a bunch left


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Thanks for the info! Good to know that the standard ram-sizers for sizing boolits will work OK for seating gas checks.