The Liberty Ships - A Totally Mind Boggling Achievement

[DougGuy]

The liberties were built during WWII to accelerate the delivery of war goods to the European theater, a truly mind boggling story about one part of the US war production, but not just another war story.

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/building-liberty-ships-1941/?fbclid=IwAR1m5_Eq9J_auFXvZbbpnO0Z2gb0buF9aeoy4qkR y1WZ6urtMLEImEYikKU

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I worked on a WWII era libery ship in the shipyard years ago, it had a brass plaque describing the keel laying on July 7th 1944, and sailing loaded with war goods on July 17th. TEN DAYS! I stood in jaw dropping amazement while the enormity of this feat sunk in.

The record stands at 4 days, 10 hours, and 29 minutes for final assembly. Unbelievable. Not all of the greatest generation wore uniforms.

[Winger Ed.]

There's a series of old TV shows I never saw as a kid called ''War Factories" that is on youtube.

It goes into details and stories of every body's manufacturing plants during WWII.
It's just amazing the levels of production of American factories, and also the problems of Germany
trying to man their factories with slave labor that sabotaged everything, while being bombed back into the Middle Ages.

There was stuff about our lend/lease program giving the Russians around 400,000 Jeeps and trucks,
almost half of what they had for the war. Along with plenty of them for ourselves.

Gun powder being produced at one MILLION pounds---- a day.

Making planes faster than the govt. could train pilots to fly them.
A B-17 going from start, to coming off the assembly line and onto the Flight Line---- in 10 hours.

Building and filling ships ships faster than the Germans and Japanese could make torpedoes to sink them with.

And on & on....

[farmbif]

what I would do for one of those p51's or even a Havilland beaver or for that matter any 2 seater plane they sold for next to nothing as surplus after the war. I was born a generation too late

[popper]

Liberty ships did have a problem breaking up in the cold N. Atlantic. Wrong steel for a modular ship. Aircraft had similar manufacturing problems that eventually got worked out. But yes, the US really cranked out a bunch of stuff.
Best use of 'War Factories' would be in our classrooms. Show the kids how the 'masters of the world' (both German, allies and US) really screwed thing up. Bunch of liberal elites, crooks and cronyism exposed for all to see the RESULT.

[DougGuy]

Liberty ships did have a problem breaking up in the cold N. Atlantic. Wrong steel for a modular ship.

I was a shipyard worker for many years before I worked on the hulls of some of the old liberties, so I was very familiar with steel and ship construction, I was in a JLG lift on the pier in the Norfolk shipyard, cutting some steel off the side of the ship to be replaced. I was surprised (but not surprised) to run into a chunk of cast iron engine block with half of a 5/16" bolt hole visible complete with threads, not too much farther on I ran into a piece of chrome plated steel from a car bumper imbedded into the 3/4" thick steel plate of the hull.

I never heard too much about them breaking up b/c of the cold.

The plate we replaced consisted of one strake of shell plate, running the length of the ship, in a 6' wide strip about 8' or so down from the main deck, we took off 3/4" and put back 7/8" plate.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There's a town named Capitola on the Montery Bay in California near Santa Cruz. So named, as it was briefly the capitol of Calif. Nearby is Sea Cliff Beach and thereon is a public access fishing pier. One of the ships made of concrete and re-bar during WW I, the S.S. Palo Alto, was floated in and sunk lengthwise to the end of the pier to make it longer. The bottom of the ship was blown out with explosives so that it would flood, settle to the bottom, and provide stability. As a kid visiting my Grandparents in Santa Cruz in the 1950s they always took me there as it was such a curiosity. At that time one could walk out almost to the end of the ship, but as the years passed the ocean and storms took their toll on the wreckage and it became progressively more and more restricted as to how far one could venture by chain link fence.

Alas, the last time I was there, in about 1986, the fence had reached the end of the wooden pier and you couldn't go onto the old vessel at all. One could stand at the end of the pier and observe waves crashing inside the wreck, see such things as starfish, and wonder at all of the cement and re-bar used in it's construction. Were you curious as to it's origins, as was DougGuy, you could read up on what an amazing feat the construction of these ships represented. Who would have thought that concrete could float? Whereas the WW II ships sailed under their own power, most of the WW I ships were towed.

DG

[Winger Ed.]

I worked with a sailor who, in the late 50s had been on a USS Big Gray that was built during the war years.

He told a story about some one figuring out there was a void in the ship.
You'd measure and pace all around this one area, but there wasn't a way to get to the other side of certain bulkheads.

They got the Skipper to write and request the Bureau of Ships to let them drill a hole in one of the walls/bulkhead.
(The Navy won't let you just drill random holes in their ships)
They did, and peeked inside----
There was a complete and very well equipped machine shop in there.
It was built so fast and furious, a door had never been installed to access it.

They got permission, and a work order written to have a hatch installed the next time the ship came in to be worked on.

[Baltimoreed]

My father and father in law both worked in the Baltimore shipyards building liberty ships during the war. Neither were welders. My father has told me stories of seeing gas cylinders falling and having the nozzles sheared off turning them into rockets or spinning on the decks sending everyone scrambling to get out of the way.

[Thumbcocker]

They eventually got the steel breaking sorted out. A lot if it had to do with inexperienced welders. Not very many were lost to breaking up.


They were amazing machines. You could fit 260 Shermans in one.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Winger Ed.]

During the war, Stalin made a comment that the outcome of war would be determined by American factories.

[Thumbcocker]

During the war, Stalin made a comment that the outcome of war would be determined by American factories.It is not widely acknowledged for political reasons, but lend lease helped the red army a lot. While the Soviets did produce stunning numbers of planes and tanks, a lot of lend lease got to them at a time when Soviet industry was being transferred beyond the Ural.

Iirc 600,000 6x6 trucks went to the Red army. Also thousands of tons of spam, ammunition, powder, gasoline, etc.

I recently read an account of a red army tanker whose unit was equipped with Shermans. They were well liked by the crews. He talked about factory reps being on site to get feedback for improvements or problems that needed fixing.

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[TurnipEaterDown]

For a terrific read on US WWII production, and just How it was done (as opposed to other nations like Germany) read "Freedom's Forge".

Kaiser (Henry) ran shipyards in CA, along with lots of other things. The automobiles he tried post WWII may have flopped, but he had his shipyards compete, and they eventually got construction of a merchant marine freighter down to ~20 hours. No lie, ~20. Parts were staged of course. Stories of welders jumping from scaffold to scaffold across the hull, etc.
Magnesium produced by an alternative process that ended up producing low grade magnesium was used to develop incendiary bombs.
Higgans boats (sp?), the light troop delivery boats -- a design by a Cajun if I remember right, that most laughed at, and was a strategic advantage for the US.
Oh, and FDRs wife Elanor darn near convinced her husband to nationalize all industry (just like any 'good' leftist). Financier Baruch convinced FDR otherwise, and arguably, won us the war.
The verified count of industry execs dying of stress due to high production demands is Staggering. As were the production figures once the tooling was up & running.
Little known: more people died in US industry supporting war contracts than in the US Military 1941-45.

[Thumbcocker]

When Albert Speer was appointed minister of armaments he met with industry heads and then with Hitler. They pleaded for Germany women to enter the workforce. NO! German women don't do manual labor.

They had magazines showing workers at plants in Britain and the US leaving the factory at the end of their shifts. Lots of women. Didn't matter.

At Oak Ridge one step in the production of the enriched uranium required an operator to turn knobs to keep a needle at a certain spot. The scientists freaked out when they learned women and girls were at the controls. A contest was held. Girls vs. Scientists keeping the needle at the right spot. No more comments from the scientists.

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[xs11jack]

I read a while back that Henry Ford retooled a plant that built B-24s. In short order they were turning out a bomber every hour. Incredible!! I can't remember the name of the plant, it was something Run. I think the plant was about one mile long. Again incredible!
Old Jack
Wait was that Willow Run?
OJ

[Hogtamer]

Many are still in service serving as artificial reefs to attract fish off the GA and SC coasts!

[TurnipEaterDown]

Willow run was the Ford plant that built B24s. However, Many of these could not be shipped for service. They had to be seriously refitted. Seems the folks that Ford employed (I think it was Bennet that lead this maybe) really though airplane makers didn't know much and Ford would 'show them up'. Not so much, those air plane makers fixed most of those Ford planes so they could be used in the war theater.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Another note: the Library of Congress has all sorts of historical photos accessible on line. Naval gun (think 16" on battleship) construction photos are interesting. Hardly anyone thinks of the tooling to make those guns. It is worth a look.

[samari46]

Have a bronze engine builder's data plate from a liberty ship. Engine was built by the Joshua Hendy Company in California. Bought it for $25 at the New York historical steam ship show in NY. Tried to research it as to which liberty ship it was built for but no luck. Frank

[armoredman]

I worked with a sailor who, in the late 50s had been on a USS Big Gray that was built during the war years.

He told a story about some one figuring out there was a void in the ship.
You'd measure and pace all around this one area, but there wasn't a way to get to the other side of certain bulkheads.

They got the Skipper to write and request the Bureau of Ships to let them drill a hole in one of the walls/bulkhead.
(The Navy won't let you just drill random holes in their ships)
They did, and peeked inside----
There was a complete and very well equipped machine shop in there.
It was built so fast and furious, a door had never been installed to access it.

They got permission, and a work order written to have a hatch installed the next time the ship came in to be worked on.

I heard that story while I was in the Navy, but I was told it was the USS Ranger...

[Walks]

There is a fully restored Liberty ship moored next to the U.S.S. Illinois in San Pedro, CA.
The U.S.S. Lane Victory was built in San Pedro, CA in the closing months of WW2. She also served during Korea & Vietnam. She has been a fixture on the San Pedro Waterfront as a Fully restored Museum Ship since 1990 and is still able to cruise under Her own power.
Victory Ships were Bigger, Faster and carried more cargo then the Liberty ships.

[dale2242]

Very interesting thread.
Thanks folks.

[buckwheatpaul]

Doug, Thank you for this post. It was so interesting and shows what America is so capable of doing when the chips are down!

[GregLaROCHE]

I read a while back that Henry Ford retooled a plant that built B-24s. In short order they were turning out a bomber every hour. Incredible!! I can't remember the name of the plant, it was something Run. I think the plant was about one mile long. Again incredible!
Old Jack
Wait was that Willow Run?
OJ


Unbelievable that at the same time Ford had built and was building almost all the trucks for the German army. The Allies were not allowed to bomb Ford plants. Once one got bombed by mistake and after the war, Ford sued the US government and got a huge settlement.

[Dutchman]

My maternal grandfather worked on this one. He left Ithaca, NY and made it to Long Beach, Calif.

https://images46.fotki.com/v529/photos/2/28344/2133622/SSColbert1-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/thisnthat/sscolbert1.html)

https://images34.fotki.com/v1270/photos/2/28344/2133622/SSColbert-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/thisnthat/sscolbert.html)

[Thumbcocker]

Unbelievable that at the same time Ford had built and was building almost all the trucks for the German army. The Allies were not allowed to bomb Ford plants. Once one got bombed by mistake and after the war, Ford sued the US government and got a huge settlement.

Henry Ford and Hitler were buddies before Pearl Harbor. Henry was antisemitic and Hitler, as well as other Nazi's admired the Ford production methods. Henry gave Adolf a Lincoln convertible as a birthday present. Strange bedfellows.

[DougGuy]

My maternal grandfather worked on this one. He left Ithaca, NY and made it to Long Beach, Calif.

https://images46.fotki.com/v529/photos/2/28344/2133622/SSColbert1-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/thisnthat/sscolbert1.html)

https://images34.fotki.com/v1270/photos/2/28344/2133622/SSColbert-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/thisnthat/sscolbert.html)



Attack transport is a United States Navy ship classification for a variant of ocean-going troopship adapted to transporting invasion forces ashore. Unlike standard troopships – often drafted from the merchant fleet – that rely on either a quay or tenders, attack transports carry their own fleet of landing craft, such as the landing craft, vehicle, personnel (LCVP) or Higgins boat.

They are not to be confused with landing ships, which beach themselves to bring their troops directly ashore, or their general British equivalent, the Landing ship, infantry.

A total of 388 APA (troop) and AKA (cargo) attack transports were built for service in World War II in at least fifteen classes. Depending on class they were armed with one or two 5-inch guns and a variety of 40 mm and 20 mm anti-aircraft weapons.

As World War II went on, dozens of new construction merchant ships of the United States Maritime Commission's S4, C2, C3 and VC2 ("Victory") types were converted to attack transports, taking the list of APA numbers to 247, though fourteen ships (APAs 181-186 and APAs 240-247) were cancelled before completion. In addition, as part of the 1950s modernization of the Navy's amphibious force with faster ships, two more attack transports (APA-248 and APA-249) were converted from new Type C4-class ships, the Mariner-class freighters.

During World War II, attack transport served in the Pacific Theatre, taking part in many of the Navy's island hopping campaigns. Some attack transports were assigned to the European Theatre, participating in the invasions of North Africa, Sicily, Italy and Normandy. The last use was for the final WW2 Battle of Okinawa.

Notable Incidents: USS Colbert (APA-145) had mine damage on 17 September 1945, off Okinawa, this caused the death of three men and damaged the ship extensively.

GOOD thing he didn't ride it to Okinawa!

In fiction: The 1956 movie Away All Boats presents operations on an attack transport. It was based on a popular novel of the same name, written by an officer who served on one during World War 2.

[DougGuy]

Haskell-class attack transports (APA) were amphibious assault ships of the United States Navy created in 1944. They were designed to transport 1,500 troops and their combat equipment, and land them on hostile shores with the ships' integral landing craft.

The Haskells were very active in the World War II Pacific Theater of Operations, landing Marines and Army troops and transporting casualties at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Ships of the class were among the first Allied ships to enter Tokyo Bay at the end of World War II, landing the first occupation troops at Yokosuka. After the end of World War II, most participated in Operation Magic Carpet, the massive sealift of US personnel back to the United States. A few of the Haskell class were reactivated for the Korean War, with some staying in service into the Vietnam War.

296357

The U.S. Navy attack transport USS Noble (APA-218) underway off San Diego, California (USA), on 4 December 1956.

296358

The U.S. Navy attack transport USS St. Mary's (APA-126) in San Francisco Bay, California (USA), in late 1945. She is returning troops from the Western Pacific to the United States as part of "Operation Magic Carpet". Note the long "homeward bound"-pennant trailing from her after mast, and the sign on shore (in the right distance) stating "Welcome Home, Well Done". Note: the photo was probably taken at the end of her first Magic Carpet run in October-November 1945, as she was towed back after engine trouble, 3-6 January 1946, at the end of her second run.

[Rapier]

We had two liberty shps in Ft Walton Beach FL, one converted to a dinner boat and the other to a maritime store, The Boat. The Boat was ferrel concrete. By the end of the war they started making freighters out of light weight, compressed air injected concrete. A third is off shore, a fishing reef, SE of the carrier the Orinsky, another reef. The state of FL put quite a few fishing reefs out about 10 or so miles. A bunch of old battle tanks and pyramid concrete structures. We have a lot of sand bottom, not much on it, unless you put it there.

[MUSTANG]

Enjoying the read. My wife's father was a Merchant Marine 1942 through 1945 with numerous sailings to Russia, England, Italy, and other European ports.

There are still several Liberty Ships around that have been turned into Museums. San Francisco has one called the SS
Jeremiah O'Brien that offers almost daily tours.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g60713-d104529-Reviews-SS_Jeremiah_O_Brien-San_Francisco_California.html


About
Historic World War II ship docked at Pier 45. One of two remaining Liberty Class of ships, the Jeremiah made 11 trips from London to Normandy for the D day invasion to supply the war effort and carry troops.

For those interested; in the near vicinity of the O'Brien one can also go inside of a WWII Submarine, the USS Pampanito is a museum ship on the same pier.

https://www.sftourismtips.com/uss-pampanito.html


USS Pampanito
The USS Pampanito SS-383 is a WWII Balao Class Fleet Submarine. This historical vessel is now a popular floating museum in San Francisco's Fisherman's Wharf neighborhood.
This important sub went out on six patrols in the Pacific during World War II. During these tours, it sank six Japanese ships and damaged four others.

[Bmi48219]

My mother worked at Willow Run during WW II. Her father, a coal miner, had abandoned his wife and eight kids in the late 20’s and her mom died when my mother was 11. The oldest sister quit school, got married and raised the family. The brothers went into service after Pearl Harbor and Aunt Emma started sending the sisters north to stay with relatives and work in war production. I didn’t realize how tough life was for them until I was in my early forties. That truly was the great generation.
I read a book about how the plant and airport were built decades ago. Incredible story in itself. Ford & Government took over a huge area out in farm country 30 some miles from detroit. No freeway, only surface road to get there. No housing for the ten thousand plus workers that migrated there for jobs. Workers lived in shacks and tent cities for years, like California now except they had jobs.
Back in the late 60’s or early 70’s a doctor purchased a Liberty Ship and refurbished it for his family. They set out on a world cruise. Don’t think they made it but I can’t remember the specifics.
Ford applied the assembly line system to ship production in 1918. For an interesting read look up WW I War Eagle Boats.

[country gent]

The liberty ships were some of the first with welded hulls instead of riveted, At the time it was believed the welded hulls wouldnt take the stress. The welded hulls speed up the process a lot. Sections were built all over complete and transported to the docks and welded together then the wiring connected and fine tuning. Basically a production line for them. A crew of welders working on each joint inside and out could lay in a lot of weld pretty fast.

Willow Run was an orchard when it was started ground was cleared and graded starting at the front of the building the building was started on the first section and built in sections moving forward machines and tooling added as each section finished. The building f the aircraft actually started before the whole building was finished. And again the modern assemble line was used. It was claimed that the engineers on the project were working 20 hour days to keep up.

[Mk42gunner]

In 1989 or 90 we had a port visit to San Francisco. There just happened to be one of the last Liberty ships moored at Fort Mason as a museum. A few of us went on her to look around.

I remember the 20mm gun tubs with concrete armor, and that she had a hand ram 3"/50 forward and a single 5"/38 aft.

So what did two GMG's and a Fire Controlman do? We climbed all over those guns to see how they really worked.

Don't worry, we did the same thing on an Austrailian DE in Brisbane the year before.

Robert

[beshears]

Toured a LST ( landing Ship Tank) in Evansville Indiania. There in the middle of Amercia thousands of shipbuilders built hundreds of them far from the ocean.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Those old ships can keep on trucking. My brother was aboard the Tripoli during the first Gulf War. It was a WWII amphibious assault ship and they were on it for months. Sailed with Marines out of Hawaii.

[john.k]

Used to be a Liberty ship not far from here ..Rufus King...it was beached in 1942 minutes after it broke in half ,the Pacific was dead calm ,the crew simply climbed down to the beach ,and got lifts into Brisbane on local boats....after a couple of days they were all rounded up ,and flown back to the US to stop the story getting out......The front part floated away ,and was towed into the bay for reuse....The rear with machinery lasted till two years ago when the H&M blew it up,as it was becoming submerged most of the time ,and a hazard to navigation.

[Winger Ed.]

There was a story about how German intelligence gave Hitler a report on American aircraft production.
They told him whatever the number was that they had gotten from watching and counting the new planes
being flown out of the various factories.

Hitler thought the number was unusually high. He asked if it was American production for the year.
They told that no, it was per month. Hitler didn't believe them, and said there was no way it could be that many.

[samari46]

One of them served as a school for the culinary arts in NYC. Had a buddy who had gone through the school, that guy sure could cook. Frank

[country gent]

What is truly amazing is this wasnt just the liberty ships and airplanes. But everything needed to win the war. Guns, tanks,vehicles,clothing,food stuffs, everything needed. This was done in record time with the country on rationing. Industry the workers the people all pulled together to accomplish this. I read where GM easily tripled the production of 50 cal Brownings and even reduced the cost thru changes in manufacturing and the use of some stamping. Chrysler did the same with tanks. Jeep did the same with the jeeps increasing and streamlining production.

Wartime production needs were given to manufacturers who were a "good fit" and then retooled on the fly and most were up and running in weeks or months. engineering worked 20 hour days and volunteered for it. The same in the trades and when running the workers themselves. Equipment was made available to those who needed it. Govt owned on loan to get shops up to speed making parts to supply manufacturers.

Pearl harbor united the nation not just on he adsin front but thru it the European fronts also. everyone pulled together everyone did all they could 110%, Women who would have never thought of working would go to work and be trained to be welders machinists riveters or what was needed to support the husbands sons and family members overseas. People to young to enlist would go to work after school, collect scrap metals to be reused in production. Think about the basics at a shipyard with a few thousand employees working hard in just having food, clothing and safety gear available.The number of runners and gofers to keep the men working. Keeping those welding in rods and needed materials was a major undertaking.

Tinking abut this is simply mind boggling and amazing. Theres a reason they are called the greatest generation

[MUSTANG]

What is truly amazing is this wasnt just the liberty ships and airplanes. But everything needed to win the war. Guns, tanks,vehicles,clothing,food stuffs, everything needed. This was done in record time with the country on rationing. Industry the workers the people all pulled together to accomplish this. I read where GM easily tripled the production of 50 cal Brownings and even reduced the cost thru changes in manufacturing and the use of some stamping. Chrysler did the same with tanks. Jeep did the same with the jeeps increasing and streamlining production.

Wartime production needs were given to manufacturers who were a "good fit" and then retooled on the fly and most were up and running in weeks or months. engineering worked 20 hour days and volunteered for it. The same in the trades and when running the workers themselves. Equipment was made available to those who needed it. Govt owned on loan to get shops up to speed making parts to supply manufacturers.

Pearl harbor united the nation not just on he adsin front but thru it the European fronts also. everyone pulled together everyone did all they could 110%, Women who would have never thought of working would go to work and be trained to be welders machinists riveters or what was needed to support the husbands sons and family members overseas. People to young to enlist would go to work after school, collect scrap metals to be reused in production. Think about the basics at a shipyard with a few thousand employees working hard in just having food, clothing and safety gear available.The number of runners and gofers to keep the men working. Keeping those welding in rods and needed materials was a major undertaking.

Tinking abut this is simply mind boggling and amazing. Theres a reason they are called the greatest generation

Clarification:

Jeep did not make Jeeps. The Jeep was designed and built by Bantam. The Federal Government did not think that Bantam could meet production requirements and considered that the Federal Government "OWNED THE RIGHTS" to the 4 wheel drive light utility vehicle; they assigned most production to Willys Overland and Ford. I believe Bantam made less than 3,000 WWII jeeps, but they did build many of the T3 Trailers that were paired with the WWII jeeps. Whereas there were over 640,000 Jeeps built during World War II; almost all by Willys and Ford.

After WWII; Bantam had a lawsuit against the USofA for taking their design without adequate compensation. Fed's settled out of courts by issuing a contract for modified T-3 Trailers. These had a tailgate installed - where the original and current style "Jeep Trailers" where a sealed box that could float for fording streams or beach landings. These modified T-3 Trailers were procured via the US Navy and used for moving items around Naval Ports and Airfields.

I bought a Ford "Jeep" made in WWII from my uncle for $125.00 when I was 13 (It was added to my vehicle collection which started with a 1937 Plymouth I bought for $50.00 when I was 12). Sold the Jeep when I was 17 and went off to College. Wish I had it back. That old flat head Ford engine was a strong engine.

I have a Bantam USN T-3 trailer with the drop tail gate I bought about 25 years ago. It is still going strong and I use it for gathering 6 or so cords of wood each year to heat the Kalispell House with. Only area I am concerned with is the seals on the hubs may be going as a slight oil seepage has started. Will have to research that this Spring and see where/how I can rebuild the hubs and ensure they are oiled/greased and good to go. The trailer is a collectors items now, so I need to ensure it remains in good shape.

And of course there is the question and debates of where the term "Jeep" comes from. Interesting article on the various theories and reflections on where "Jeep" came from can be found at: http://www.42fordgpw.com/where-did-the-word-jeep-come-from/

[Bmi48219]

The WW II production ‘miracle’ was well orchestrated. The government set up Boards to allocate equipment, manpower and resources for all the thousands of products needed overseas and at home. When you read the histories of military equipment produced back then the milling / manufacturing equipment and various raw materials needed by the thousands of contractors and subcontractors to produce each item were rationed just like food. There just wasn’t enough of anything to produce all the equipment needed. Everything was prioritized. But no other nation; Germany, Japan, Russia, Italy or England had the resources to come close to meeting the demands.
I recall old timers saying they’d stop and look in barns hoping to find old tires because you couldn’t buy new ones, all rubber was reserved for war production. Rationing food was necessary to feed the millions of allied soldiers and that’s where the best food went. Same with fuel, gasoline, oil and coal.
It was an amazing achievement made possible by a determined population. Looking around I don’t know if we could do it again.

[MaryB]

Back then many had veggie gardens and that is what kept food on the table, and surplus either helped feed neighbors or went to the government to feed the military. Grandma fed 4 boys, grandpa, and her parents from the huge farm garden. She had a 10 acre garden! Thing was huge. She gardened until it became t much work to keep it weeded and the grandkids all got older and had jobs so couldn't run out on weekends to help. She always had a freezer full of veggies when I was growing up, and a basement pantry full of canned goods.

Being a dairy farm most of the milk went to military use but they always had some for their own use. And they always raised 2-3 steers for beef, 4-5 hogs for pork, and grandma had a huge chicken coop and sold eggs so they ate well during the war. Helped feed a lot of the family.

It wasn't the first time they gave production to government. During the Sioux Uprising they went to Fort Ridgely for protection and took the livestock with so it wasn't raided. I have a copy of a letter saying the government owed them for one steer that was taken to feed the soldiers at the fort.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

There is a fully restored Liberty ship moored next to the U.S.S. Illinois in San Pedro, CA.
The U.S.S. Lane Victory was built in San Pedro, CA in the closing months of WW2. She also served during Korea & Vietnam. She has been a fixture on the San Pedro Waterfront as a Fully restored Museum Ship since 1990 and is still able to cruise under Her own power.
Victory Ships were Bigger, Faster and carried more cargo then the Liberty ships.

I booked a cruise on the Lane Victory for my wife and I along with my brother and his wife. My brother was radio officer in the Merchant Marine during WWII. We sailed out of San Pedro and cruised out around Catalina and back. While under way we were attacked by Japanese planes firing blanks. I hoped they were blanks. My brother enjoyed it immensely. It brought back lots of memories for him.

[Paf]

Reading this thread with great interest. My father served in the Armed Guard during WW II on a liberty ship named the George H. Himes. He was part of the gun crew for the ship. Dad is currently in hospice and is talking about his years in the navy. He served on another liberty ship but he can't recall the name of that vessel. My aunt was a "Rosie the Riveter". Worked for GE in Chicago as a welder. The company kept her on as a welder after the war.

[DougGuy]

^^^^^^ We need a LIKE button No.1!^^^^^^

[Winger Ed.]

[QUOTE=MaryB;5357672]Back then many had veggie gardens /QUOTE]

Oh yeah,,, there was a big campaign for people to have 'Victory Gardens' to help out the 'war effort' by easing food shortages since
so many people were off the farms and in uniform, plus the extra need for food to be sent overseas.

Also, 'meatless Thursday' was a big effort for that too.

Almost everything was rationed, and you had to have coupons to buy lots of things,
but that didn't really ease the shortages.

[country gent]

Back then Jeep was slang for the vehicle. I believe it was just after the war Jeep became a manufacturer. The Toledo willys overland plant was also the Jeep plant were one and the same building for years until in the 90s they built the new plant. For years the 2 smoke stacks stood to commemorate the site, but I believe they are gone now.

[TurnipEaterDown]

"Jeep" came about by making a word out of "GP". General Purpose vehicle in Army speak, that's my understanding.

[quack1]

Clarification:

Jeep did not make Jeeps. The Jeep was designed and built by Bantam. The Federal Government did not think that Bantam could meet production requirements and considered that the Federal Government "OWNED THE RIGHTS" to the 4 wheel drive light utility vehicle; they assigned most production to Willys Overland and Ford. I believe Bantam made less than 3,000 WWII jeeps, but they did build many of the T3 Trailers that were paired with the WWII jeeps. Whereas there were over 640,000 Jeeps built during World War II; almost all by Willys and Ford.

After WWII; Bantam had a lawsuit against the USofA for taking their design without adequate compensation. Fed's settled out of courts by issuing a contract for modified T-3 Trailers. These had a tailgate installed - where the original and current style "Jeep Trailers" where a sealed box that could float for fording streams or beach landings. These modified T-3 Trailers were procured via the US Navy and used for moving items around Naval Ports and Airfields.

I bought a Ford "Jeep" made in WWII from my uncle for $125.00 when I was 13 (It was added to my vehicle collection which started with a 1937 Plymouth I bought for $50.00 when I was 12). Sold the Jeep when I was 17 and went off to College. Wish I had it back. That old flat head Ford engine was a strong engine.

I have a Bantam USN T-3 trailer with the drop tail gate I bought about 25 years ago. It is still going strong and I use it for gathering 6 or so cords of wood each year to heat the Kalispell House with. Only area I am concerned with is the seals on the hubs may be going as a slight oil seepage has started. Will have to research that this Spring and see where/how I can rebuild the hubs and ensure they are oiled/greased and good to go. The trailer is a collectors items now, so I need to ensure it remains in good shape.

And of course there is the question and debates of where the term "Jeep" comes from. Interesting article on the various theories and reflections on where "Jeep" came from can be found at: http://www.42fordgpw.com/where-did-the-word-jeep-come-from/

Thought you might like to see where your Bantam trailer was made. Here's a picture of the remaining Bantam building. I live about a mile away from it. Had a relative that worked there before he went into the Army.
https://i.imgur.com/cpAPgxkl.jpg

[Bmi48219]

Reading this thread with great interest. My father served in the Armed Guard during WW II on a liberty ship named the George H. Himes. He was part of the gun crew for the ship. Dad is currently in hospice and is talking about his years in the navy. He served on another liberty ship but he can't recall…..

Your Dad’s memories are priceless and you really should record them.
Forty five years ago I worked with a gentleman that had served on a destroyer escort (DE) guarding convoys to England and Russia. North Atlantic weather made convoy duty in a DE miserable. One of his buddies had served in the Armed Guard and had survived two sinkings.
From the little he spoke of it I can’t imagine a posting worse than bucking through 30 foot seas in a winter storm at 5 knots knowing that if your overloaded ship didn’t break in half, when weather conditions did improve you were still on a torpedo magnet, armed with a couple guns that had been made before you were born.
Your Dad is hero.

[Winger Ed.]

Clarification:

Jeep did not make Jeeps. The Jeep was designed and built by Bantam. The Federal Government did not think that Bantam could meet production requirements and considered that the Federal Government "OWNED THE RIGHTS" to the 4 wheel drive light utility vehicle; they assigned most production to Willys Overland and Ford.

Things were going fast and furious back then.
The War Dept. made a value judgement and figured they couldn't produce enough of them fast enough.
So they pretty much told them, "Sorry folks, but we have a war to win".

[sniper]

Those "Greatest Generation" guys and women were tough old birds! My son-in law's mother worked on the crashed B-17 that is on display at the Pacific Aviation Museum at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.
My Dad never carried a gun that I know of. He was a welder who worked building the Liberty Ships in Mississippi. He did other things at other places that he would never talk about, but he slipped once, and mentioned the Phillipines.
One day, I noticed some scars on his torso. he told me that he was asssigned to weld under the hulls of the Liberty ships; probably, because his nickname was "Slim". There was not a lot of room. He said sometimes the molten metal would find an opening in his heavy leather welding clothing, and he couldn't move much...he'd just have to lay there till it cooled, then keep working.
He told me the leathers were so hot in addition to the heat and humidity of Mississippi that it would cause almost crippling heat rash. The welders would drive to the beaches after work in bumper to bumper traffic, just to lay in the water for 10-15 minutes, which would help the heat rash.
I don't know if this is a problem nowadays, but back then, the dark glass in the Welders' helmets must not have provided as much protection as necessary, and the welders' eyes would become "sunburned" (his term) and exude liquid which would harden, and glue their eyelids shut. He and many others kept a potato and knife beside their beds, and would cut the potato when they couldn't open their eyes. The juice would soften the material, and help heal their eyes.
Somehow, after hearing those experiences, I never wanted to become a welder.

[Winger Ed.]

I don't know if this is a problem nowadays, but back then, the dark glass in the Welders' helmets must not have provided as much protection as necessary,

It's sort of an accumulating effect of a growing degree of blindness.
Welders can and do still get it, but they were getting the accelerated version of it.

Older welders progressively need lighter and lighter lenses over time, which lets in more and more
of the harmful wavelengths of light, and the reduced vision comes on quicker and quicker.

Those folks probably used a lighter lens than they should have to be able to see around the weld better,
so they could work faster.

I used to do a fair amount of welding, and knew the risks, so I used as dark a lens as possible.
My vision is still good, but my night vision has suffered. I retired with just barely any real eye damage.

This reminds me:
I looked through the hood of an older welder once and thought,
"Wow. My sunglasses are darker than this lens".
The same guy looked through mine and asked, "How do you see anything with this"?

[country gent]

I have worked up to 300 amps and that arc was bright The bigger welders found in shipyards are even brighter. Have seen some 1000 amp ones on bidspotter for sale that must really light it up

[Winger Ed.]

I have worked up to 300 amps and that arc was bright The bigger welders found in shipyards are even brighter. Have seen some 1000 amp ones on bidspotter for sale that must really light it up

From looking at old pictures - They were doing a lot of single pass welding on both sides of 1" plate at the same time.
They were holding rods that looked about the thickness of a pencil.

With that, and working long shifts day in and day out, it's a perfect formula for severe vision loss.

[country gent]

Ive never used them bu I have seen a few rods in the 3/8"-1/2" dia around that were supposedly out of the shipyards.

[Winger Ed.]

I'm not much a of a 'stick rod' guy, but I've been told that in a perfect world-
the rod thickness needs to be right at being the same as what you're welding.

For doing long seams/joints on 1" plate, that was common for hull sections,
and it's done simultaneously from both sides- using 1/2" dia. rods is very believable.

They also probably had electric cables going to it that would remind ya of a fire hose.

[DougGuy]

I have worked up to 300 amps and that arc was bright The bigger welders found in shipyards are even brighter. Have seen some 1000 amp ones on bidspotter for sale that must really light it up

I was a shipyard fitter/welder pipefitter/pipewelder, burner, for MANY years. Somebody cut a rudder horn wrong and instead of beveling the 3" plate they cut it square, so they took a piece of flatbar, 3/4" thick and tacked it up at an angle and welded in the gap, they added back on the beveled part. 2 welders running what we called "Spray Arc" basically a hard steel MIG wire turned up really high, it made a puddle big as a quarter. They welded this one evening for hours, and both of them got burned badly THROUGH their blue jean welding shirts and a t shirt underneath. They looked like lobsters except a strip down the middle where the snaps are, and the pockets and flaps on the pockets. Them boys were hurtin' units for a week!

I worked on a SSTV submarine test vehicle, they would weld this and fill it with instruments and tow it out to the Marianas and sink it, see how far it would go before it failed. Then, drag it back to New Orleans and rebuild it again. Next trip they'd put instruments on the outside, and set off explosives inside to see how much it took to make it fail. This went on for years. 65' long section of submarine hull made of HY100 plate, with a missile tube & hatch, emergency hatch, and access hatch. The purpose was to test hatch design.

I ran a carbon arc gouging rig on that job. Had an air fed respirator under my hood, completely cover in asbestos cloth, heavy duty mittens, my machine was a big Westinghouse that they tacked down to the barge under the hull, they cranked it wide open (880 amps) took the handle off and tossed it in the river. This was my carbon arcing machine. I used 1/2" carbon arc rods, big as your finger. I could stick this rod 1 1/2" into the metal and slide it sideways, I could NOT TOUCH metal with it! The metal just vaporized and came down on me like a garden hose spewing red hot liquid steel. Lots of weld repair on a job like this where it is all 100% weld, no snipes in the corners or rat holes to relieve stress, they'd weld one piece one day, and as it began to cool, BAM!! Another piece a few feet away would crack from the stress. I chased these cracks and gouged out bad welds the whole time I was on this job.

[Bmi48219]

Ive never used them bu I have seen a few rods in the 3/8"-1/2" dia around that were supposedly out of the shipyards.

I’ve seen fab shops use what I believe they called ‘Jet Rod’ for single pass welds on 1/2” plate. They way I understood it you couldn’t make additional passes over it.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJPEF4z5sHU

[country gent]

very interesting M Tecs. I wish they had shown a little more of the details on the pre weld set up of the plates, gap between them, the vee groove. ALso would have liked them to flip them over after to show the flow thru.

Working in a food plant we tig purge welded a lot of stainless pipe for product. I was always amazed and the smooth well defined bead on the inside of the pipe joint.

[M-Tecs]

Working in a food plant we tig purge welded a lot of stainless pipe for product. I was always amazed and the smooth well defined bead on the inside of the pipe joint.

When you do it inside an argon chamber the results are even more impressive.

[John Guedry]

My dad and bunches of other family worked in the Higgins shipyard in NOLA . I knew a teacher who worked there also who told me you picked up welding rods in a bucket and had to save the burnt ends and at the end of your shift they were weighed. You had better have "X" number of pounds. If you were short of it you got fired and your name turned in to your local draft board.

[DougGuy]

My dad and bunches of other family worked in the Higgins shipyard in NOLA . I knew a teacher who worked there also who told me you picked up welding rods in a bucket and had to save the burnt ends and at the end of your shift they were weighed. You had better have "X" number of pounds. If you were short of it you got fired and your name turned in to your local draft board.

Ha they were doing that at Ingalls West Bank in Pascagoula in the 1970s! You got hot rods from the rod room in your can, you saved the stubs and turned them in or you didn't get any new rods! 3hrs on the rods in the can, you got a timestamped card with every handful of rods.

[Winger Ed.]

My dad and bunches of other family worked in the Higgins shipyard in NOLA .

I've seen some pictures of their production building the wooden hulls for them, and (I think) from the ELCO company
plant that made most of the PT boats. (Other boat and yacht makers built them also)
In the pictures, the workforce was mostly women too.

We're led to believe they were just slapped together with boards and plywood like you see at Home Depot.
They weren't.
They was some very well thought out uses of specific kinds of wood for different parts,
and some very sophisticated laminates went into building them.

Those were dangerous places to work too.
Back then, there wasn't much of that OSHA action going on worrying about worker's safety.

[Winger Ed.]

Something else from that era I always thought was really clever is Marston matting.
It was big stamped out steel panels that linked or snapped together with holes in them for making runways,
parking areas, and roads over terrain that was soft or got muddy when it rained.

It had to be one giant stamping press to make them too.
They'd bulldoze out a flat road way, lay it out and snap it together for a instant runway with no pot holes or mud.
When it got bombed or mortared, it was quick and easy to fill in the hole, and snap another section over the damaged spot.

As far as I know, the bad guys didn't have anything like it for advanced bases.

[MUSTANG]

Something else I always thought was really clever is Marston matting.
It was big stamped out steel panels that linked or snapped together with holes in them for making runways,
parking areas, and roads over terrain that was soft or got muddy when it rained.

It had to be one giant stamping press to make them too.
They'd bulldoze out a flat road way, lay it out and snap it together for a instant runway with no pot holes or mud.
When it got bombed or mortared, it was quick and easy to fill in the hole, and snap another section over the damaged spot.

Remember it in my youth well - we used to make Hog, calf, and horse pens out of it as it was surplus, cheap, and readily available just about anywhere in the US back in the 1960's.

[Winger Ed.]

Remember it in my youth well - we used to make Hog, calf, and horse pens out of it as it was surplus, cheap, and readily available just about anywhere in the US back in the 1960's.

Our community here was built around a newly impounded lake in the mid-late 60s when surplus of it was still around.
Going along the shore line, you can see several places where it was used for retaining walls,
and to stop yard erosion on rather steep properties.

Like the millions of metal canteens made by Swanson-- I thinks its pretty much gone now.

[d4xycrq]

Spent some time ‘82-84 on a T-2 tanker. It was still getting the job done. Built in the fall of ‘43, and there it was getting the job done thru 1999.

Tanker, then NASA tracking ship, then special projects ship for the submarine navy.