Factory Overruns?

[DonHowe]

Midway is advertising lower prices on "factory overruns" on bullets and brass. At a time of shortages. When it is still difficult to find reloading components when we need them someone wants me to believe there are "overruns" of products for consumers? Does anyone believe that story? Would not any "overrun" of consumer product simply be stock in inventory?
Some time back Midway advertised factory overrun LC 7.62x51 ball ammo. Not only is that possible but is a matter of course. That ammunition is produced to fill God's contract which specifies the quantity to be produced. Anything left over after the contract quantity is met isindeed overrun.

I just don't think it is possible to produce overruns of reloading components at this time short of putting all resources into making components for some rare obsolete cartridge. But an "overrun" of .338 210gr Nosler Partitions?

[Mal Paso]

Kinda pissed me off, cranking out surplus when some stuff has been out of stock for a year. Then they want $1 a bullet for their mistake. LOL

[MUSTANG]

I would suspect specific lots that failed Quality Control requirements. Given numbers of Primer Strike - no ignition over the last 18 months I have picked up at the ranges; I would suspect that previous loose QC practices allowing maximum output are being replaced with tighter QC measures.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I got the same Midway e-mail ad this morning, read the offerings, and wasn't enticed by anything's price. Things are starting to loosen up a bit though. My nearest chain store's ammo shelves are full again, but there are holes in the inventory and prices remain high.

DG

[DonHowe]

I would suspect specific lots that failed Quality Control requirements. Given numbers of Primer Strike - no ignition over the last 18 months I have picked up at the ranges; I would suspect that previous loose QC practices allowing maximum output are being replaced with tighter QC measures.

They could just call the stuff seconds.

[Outpost75]

Selling rejected lots of military ammo repacked for commercial sale has been common practice since the 1800s. It's called making a profit by marketing the scrap.

[Electrod47]

One mans "Overrun" is another mans treasure?

[farmbif]

well, not sure about over run, but midway did have RCBS pro melt 2 for 1/2 off a couple weeks ago. its probably just advertising practice like lost leaders grocery stores use. like buy one loaf of jiffy bread, get second for free. they dont make anything off the bread but they know you will buy other stuff while in the store.
one thing noticed about the midway blemished and second bullets is currently those prices are more than what the regular retail cost was just a short time ago.
yeah bullet prices have gone crazy high

[rkrcpa]

I bought one of their overrun bullet deals. Quality product at a good price. What's not to like?

[Outer Rondacker]

I buy overrun projectiles all the time. I have got a killer deal in the past. One just weeks ago. I normally don't buy them from midway.

[Winger Ed.]

I've bought a bunch of 2nds/over runs for .223. I like 'em.

Sometimes a company will over produce an item they're all set up to run their lines for
in anticipation of further orders that may or may not come in.
Or what they think they can sell above what a given contract is for.

When they make a run for jacketed bullets, they may produce what they anticipate they'll sell for maybe a year or more
depending on which one it is. For common ones, it may be tons of them.

If it works out-- they've saved the down time and expense to set up another run.
If they miss guess the market-- they can sell them on the cheap to clear warehouse space,
and the savings for not having to pay for the additional set up time is still there.

[reddog81]

It's just marketing.

Look over here! We've got a great deal for you! Only $1 per bullet!

Wow, 30% off the jacked up MSRP... I checked out the sale because I've bought over runs from Midway before and they were a great deal. This stuff is just a hodge podge of oddball stuff that wasn't selling unless they throw some marketing behind it.

Not too long before prices went sky high from panic buying I got some premium Federal 9mm bullets from the discontinued Guard Dog line for $.09 each. Some .357 130 grain hollow points for $.16 each and a variety of .308 bullets for $.20 each. It was all marketed as overruns or seconds but it was mainly bullets from discontinued ammo.

[farmbif]

wow those sales sure do work, just a few days ago they had pages of factory seconds one caught my eye 125 grain .308 flat point for the 30/30 if I remember right they were like 36 cents each, that's like normal price our at least it used to be. maybe I'm really living in the past. but I'm good to go as long as I got gas checks, dont need to send $$$ to midway

[TNsailorman]

For time being I have switched my shooting to pellet rifle and pistol. A whole lot cheaper even after buying a pellet rifle and pistol. Maybe I will go back to burning powder, primers and bullets when it is more available and more affordable. If not, I will continue to practice with the pellets and save the powder, primers and bullets for defense. james

[Kosh75287]

INTERESTING that there's been no production overruns of PRIMERS!!!
Perhaps because there's been NO PRODUCTION of PRIMERS?!?

[jsizemore]

Seconds sound like defective. Over run doesn't.

[Jim22]

Midway USA used to offer what they called, 'Dogtown' bullets. They were .224" in different weights, soft or hard points. They were, "Made by a national bullet maker". They were priced lower than Speer, Hornady, and others. What I learned was that Hornady was making them, packaging them in plastic bags, and selling them cheap because of reduced packaging cost. I also learned that one of the southern shooting suppliers was selling the same thing even cheaper than Midway. Bags of several hundred were a deal and I bought many. They even had boxes of thousands loose packed a real good prices. They called them, "Varmint Nightmare". I have tried them and i think they are first run. They may be coming back.

Jim

[Winger Ed.]

, packaging them in plastic bags, and selling them cheap because of reduced packaging cost.

Most people never think about it, but packaging is very expensive.
For some things, just the printing costs for the label is as much or more than the product under it.

I remember the wholesale cost of those plain plastic bags at the grocery store was $20. per 1,000.
That was 15 years ago. It came out to 2 cents each when buying one package of 1,000.

[gwpercle]

I think maybe "Over Run" sounds and sells better than "Factory Seconds " or "Factory Rejects"
Just a new way of talking in this new day and age .
You have to "read between the lines" and use some common sense to figure out what they are saying ... I've learned a lot by watching the junk they sell at 2 AM on the info-mercials ...talk about a medicine show scam ... say anything to sell the product .
Gary

[Winger Ed.]

I see stuff in the 'military surplus' stores that just by the smell is obviously brand new stuff.

The companies make their contracts with the military for jackets, utilities, whatever.
Then just keep making more after they've filled the govt. contract.
That's what is in the modern generation 'surplus' store.

[charlie b]

Given the changing scope of US military activity it would not surprise me if it is in fact over runs. The military specifies how much they want to buy, but, they can also choose to not buy that amount as soon as they predicted. So, the expected production is 'excess' to the contract.

Same goes for civilian contracts, such as Bass Pro Shops or others. Gear up production for expected purchases. Those purchases are cancelled as shelves fill up. Now there is product and no one to buy it.

Yes, you can blame the mfg for not knowing what to produce. These days could you do better? If so, start up a mfg facility and make some money :)

Prices? Yep, prices are up. Why would anyone be surprised at that? Yep, even 'over runs' or 'seconds'. Supply and demand. I am still waiting to see what primers end up costing. I am happy to see powder has only gone up about 15%.

[Mal Paso]

I know the military goes through tons of Ruger 480 and 6mm creedmoor brass.

I just want "them" to stop what they are doing and make what I want! LOL

[rkrcpa]

I will admit, it is hard to imagine how there was an overrun of the .41 WFNGC bullets I bought.

It doesn't strike me as something there would be excess of, meaning, they were always hard to come by in the past. At the same time, I can see how someone could be standing in a warehouse looking at a pile of these and thinking to himself "How are we going to get rid of all of these".

[dverna]

For time being I have switched my shooting to pellet rifle and pistol. A whole lot cheaper even after buying a pellet rifle and pistol. Maybe I will go back to burning powder, primers and bullets when it is more available and more affordable. If not, I will continue to practice with the pellets and save the powder, primers and bullets for defense. james

James,
You are not alone. Plinking with primers worth $100+/k and powder $40+/lb does not make sense.

[John Guedry]

Packing containers are expensive. Next time you buy breakfast cereal think about this,"the box it comes in costs more than the product in the box".

[DonHowe]

Seconds sound like defective. Over run doesn't.
Seconds are defective. Factory overruns is BS.

Not that it matters at all. Guess reloaded are not supposed to think, just buy.

[remy3424]

I only purchase rifle (jacketed) bullets, I cast any handgun boolits needed. I don't buy over-runs, blems, seconds, or anything else they call them. I want my rifle bullets to be as perfect (accurate) as possible, sure not buying something that they are already warning you that they might not be the regular product produced. Prairie dawgs are a smallish target once out there a few hundred yards or more. IF I bought any handgun bullets, sure I might try them. I am usually only punching some paper for fun with those. Haven't been in a military surplus store for a long time, but I would guess a lot of the crap they have is not surplus of our US military...might look somewhat similar, be some foreign produced "stuff", or old and out-dated.

[Kraschenbirn]

Seconds are defective.,,

Maybe...but, in past years, I've bought (literally!) thousands of Sierra 'seconds'...sold by the pound... through their factory outlet and don't recall getting anything beyond cosmetic flaws. Unfortunately, those days are gone but I've still got a couple hundred squirreled away.

Bill

[Lifeshort]

Seconds are defective. Factory overruns is BS.

Not that it matters at all. Guess reloaded are not supposed to think, just buy.

My understanding is the Nosler Partition Overruns are are partition bullets that were made for a contract for an ammunition manufacturer like say federal premium. The partition bullets you buy to reload ado not have a cannelure cut in them and whatever manufacturer wants one so they do a run with them. Any extras are sold as factory overruns. Different than a blem or second.

[Texas by God]

I've gotten decent deals from Sierra online for "discontinued" bullets- like the .243" 90 gr fmj and .257" 75gr hp in the past year or two.
The "Dogtown" and "Varmint Nightmare" bullets are good- whoever made them.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[country gent]

I bought several boxes of berger 6 mm vlds blemishes back in the day they were very good but some had a slight discoloration on them.

The way it was explained to me was this.
Factory blemishes / seconds, Have a small flaw in the finish or else where that dosnt affect performance. My one AR upper was an Armalite blemish at about half price. Since I was converting it from carry handle to flat tip no big deal.

Factory over run, When a contract comes in for a product or special item materials are ordered to fill it plus X amount extra for set up and small losses. When the contract is filed this extra material is ran out and the extra is the over run, no flaws or blemishes its just excess to the contract to be filled.

Most factories also have what I term fill in work or jobs, When orders are slow these are ran as busy work to keep things running. Ie all the popular brass bins are full orders filled so the hornet bee and other die sets are set up to run a special batch.

[Land Owner]

From the "business end" of a hunting rifle I have found NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever between factory "first" or "second" quality.

I do wonder aloud what is or are the parameter(s) that an assembly line quality assurance observer makes through 10's of thousands of bullet observations per hour (or day) leading them to "discard some" as "seconds". My mind says it's easy to 1.) distinguish color, surface blemishes, and odd differences in light refraction. A discernable eye can detect 2.) dents, scratches, and misshapen tips, though I have yet to find any of the latter in factory second bullets, which I have bought and shot by the thousands.

[TurnipEaterDown]

I have bought bullet "seconds" repeatedly. I believe that these are often (likely not always) tooling set up runs.
I have found jackets on backward (opening at base, tip looking like an FMJ), cannelures on bullets that should not have, bullets w/ too much lead in core (long strings of lead at the tip), really rough looking openings on open tip bullets, soft points w/ lead overhanging the front of the jacket, etc.
If the ones were weeded out that looked as if they would affect performance, the rest of them did seem to perform (accuracy, expansion, etc.) just fine.
At the very least, seconds/blemished were always good for working up charges (especially w/ non-canister powders when being in a rogue mode) and initial group testing to save those expensive first quality bullets like Bonded, big bore Heavies, VLDs, etc. for finalized group testing.

[wv109323]

I was in sales of equipment. Our production was based upon "forecasting". As a salesman we were asked " to guess the future", We submitted a yearly forecast and updated it monthly. But forecasting is about as precise as predicting the winning lottery numbers. Too many variables to be accurate, and plus or minus 25% was good.
I have no idea of actual numbers but I would say machinery could produce 100,000 bullets per 8 hour shift. You have a government contract for 50 M rounds of ammo or 50 million bullets. So the math tells you 300,000 bullets per day or 167 days or 24 weeks at 3 shifts a day 7 days a week. You normally give your employees the weekend off when a production is reached and the maintenance crew changes the machinery tor another caliber. The math tells you the production will end on a Friday and maintenance will change equipment over. But a hurricane knocks out power for 2 shifts, a motor fails and you loose another 2 shifts, Covid strikes and low and behold it will be Tuesday before you can complete the bullets you need for the government contract. Do you let the production people watch the maintenance people change out the machinery or do you continue to run till the next weekend when the production people can spend time with their families. You may elect to over run till the next weekend. It is more profitable to over run and sell the over run at -10% of regular price. Thus over runs can exists even with the best planning.

[rintinglen]

-Another factor that sometimes results in "over runs" is contract errors. "Whoops, the customer ordered 5,000,000 Round-Nosed JHPs, not truncated cone."
Well, stop the presses. Retool and then do it right. Meanwhile, we have 300,000 perfectly good "wrong" bullets that we don't normally catalog. Rather than spend a bunch of money marketing and packaging something that we don't intend to sell in the future, we dump the lot to a reseller at a reduced price and let them pay for packaging, labelling etc.

[DonHowe]

My original post was not concerned with any production of anything at any time in history except the last 2 year before today. Considering that the entire country was shut down including production, shipping or receiving of raw materials required for production of ammunition or components. All other things being equal, in normal times producers of those things would be running flat out trying to catch up with demand. Add to that the difficulty of getting enough materials to produce stuff from. Availability of ammo and components at this time is better but where I live findinganything on demand is still problematic. All that being the case, I don't see the "make-work" idea being a factor.
For the time period in question, it seems to me the idea of contract overrun could be pertinent if contract was with a law enforcement agency. But like someone said, those contracts would not be for .480 Ruger or 6mm Creedmoor or other thing included it the Midway ad.
Regarding military-contract stuff, overruns and "sutplus-to-needs happens regularly with everything from carpenter hammers to anything short of nukes, aircraft carriers or Abrams tanks. But that is outside the main point of my original post.
As I said before the advertising thing doesn't matter and we can't hang any of it. It all reads me of what I first heard decades ago, " Belive half of what you see and none of what you hear!"

[charlie b]

If Midway is offering it at a 'reduced' price then why look a gift horse in the mouth? Their labeling indicates they are not seconds so what is the issue with buying them?

If it is simply because this is a conspiracy on the part of the ammo mfgs, then go ahead and believe that and don't buy the bullets.