First results with S&W M69

[BigboreShooter]

I finally found a 4.25'' M69 a couple weeks ago. Finally had a chance to test it out.
The gun had a factory trigger pull of 4-3/4 to 5lbs. I changed the trigger return spring,which dropped to a nice 3-1/4lbs. To eliminate as much human error as possible, I mounted a Burris Fastfire 3 on it.
All testing was done @ 25yds, over sand bags. Temp.was 28-30 deg. and overcast.
I shot all plain base bullets first,with no cleaning during. I was going to clean the barrel after the plain base bullets, But checking the barrel for leading, there was none. So I continued on with the gas checked loads. After a total of 105 rounds, there was barely any leading!!!
Saeco 200gr. TC 7grs/W231
Group 1 - 1.03" 849fps es.38
2- 1.53" 831fps es.49
Lyman 429-421/250grs/ 8 gr/Unique
Group 1- 1.80" 871fps es.46
2- 1.11 864fps es. 31
Rcbs 250K- 253gr 8gr/Unique
Group 1 1.81" 892fps es28
2 1.47" 899fps es 39
H&G 503 Orginal 255gr 8gr/ Unique
Group 1 2.26" 858fpe es 49
2 1.325" 874fps es63

Gas Checked Bullets
ALL LOADED WITH 9grs of Unique !

NOE 240FN-GC
Group 1 - 1.64" 1027fps es57
2- 3.94" 1020fps es 34
Arsenal 429421 GC version
Group 1 -0.78" 1031fps es 47
2 -0.97" 1017fps es27
RCBS 225SWC-GC
Group 1 -1.27" 1033fps es 59
2- 1.55" 1 14fps es40
Lyman 429-215
Group 1 0.92" 1048fps
2- 1.74" 1043fps es58
Lyman 429-244
Group 1-1.6" 990fps es13
2 - 1.75" 987" es62

So far I've been pleased and impressed with the results.


BigboreShooter

[dogdoc]

Mine has proven very accurate as well. All the nay sayers about sleeved barrels eat crow on these. My 69 outshoots my 29-2s

[BigboreShooter]

I agree. I was thinking anything under 2” would be good for my intended purpose.
The 200gr Saeco load is my practice load in my other 44s. So I have one load for everyday practice in 5 44’s.
BigboreShooter

[4bisley5]

My experience is almost identical to yours. Smith did a great job with mine. Nothing wrong with it. I like it so much that I keep thinking about getting the shorter version also.

[Shuz]

My experience is almost identical to yours. Smith did a great job with mine. Nothing wrong with it. I like it so much that I keep thinking about getting the shorter version also.
I did just that, and I enjoy my 2-3/4" mdl 69 every bit as much as my 4.25 incher!

[nockhunter]

My new favorite field gun is a 2-3/4" M69. It is a 44special 99% of the time, and full power 44mag whenever needed. I was going to get the 44special GP100 until S&W came out with the M69.

Mike

[MT Gianni]

I have a 4" and have not needed gc shooting NOE's 234 and 280 gr bullets. Accuracy is good though my most used load is 6.5 gr Red Dot.

[BigboreShooter]

I was just trying different bullets.Plane based and gas check. I sure 90% my shooting will be with plane base bullets (200gr Saeco).

[sandog]

I was reluctant to get another .44 Magnum at this stage in the game. I shot a truckload of .44 mag when I was younger, but these days I'm more into mild and pleasant.
I came across the M69 and after reading about them, decided to get it. Glad I did.

Instead of that slamming back against the web of your hand, like a M29/629 or Ruger Redhawk, the M69 barely comes back, most of the recoil is up. Supposedly the 69 has a lower bore to hand ratio which changes the recoil somewhat (for the better).
I read where guys said you HAVE to get the Hogue X Tamers like the 500 has. But to me any old small wooden grip is still comfortable with my 69.
I tried some Ahrends banana grips but they were a bit short for me. Been using these Hogue Cocobolo grips that I reshaped to my liking.
https://i.imgur.com/ahjg94dh.jpg
Also nice is how on the 5 shot cylinder the deep bolt stop cuts aren't right over the chambers, but in between them.
Another thing that I notice when shooting my 69 is the cylinder turning.
Yes, I know I'm supposed to concentrate on the front sight, but maybe because the cylinder has to go a bit farther with each pull of the trigger (double action) I tend to see it rotate in slow motion.

Since I now had a .44 sixgun, I soon found this mint Marlin 1894P (ported) to go with the M69.
The Marlin too is the most pleasant shooting .44 (carbine) I've used. Between the factory recoil pad and the ports, it is very tame even with heavier loads.

Stoutest one I've shot is 19.0 of Accurate #9 under a Hornady 240 XTP.
I also have a few hundred each of 265 WFNGC and 280 WFNGC. Those are loaded with 12.0 of HS-6.
For low powered loads, any of those bullets with 8.0 grains of Universal.
https://i.imgur.com/FnLPwlYh.jpg
A few days ago, I also bought a 4 inch Model 66-8. Almost identical to my Model 69 except it is .357.
I noticed the lock up is a bit different, the 66 has the notch for the ball detent cut into the shroud, like the 4" Model 69 has.
The snubbies in either caliber have that lump of steel against the frame that houses the ball detent.

The new 66 should be the strongest K frame yet, the thin flat on the bottom of the breech has been eliminated on the new 66's with the new front lock up design.

[Paul105]

My 2.75" with hastily modified Hogue Tamers. Currently my favorite revolver platform. Shoot it a couple of times a week. My .44 Mag practice load is 17.5gr of A2400 under 240 - 265 gr cast pb or gc deep seated to .44 special OAL and crimped over front drive band. Good load in all 44s I've tried it in (especially with 429244 SWCGC). Medium load is 6.5gr of 231/HP38 loaded the same as the 2400 load is another favorite. Lastly 240gr commercial cast, HyTec swcbb, deep seated over 5.0gr WST for a light .44 special load.


https://photos.imageevent.com/paul105/hobby/large/M69%202.75%20%20%202%20%20%20%20cropped%20%20thumb nail_IMG_4597.jpg

Chronoed these from the 2.75” M69. Three rounds at 5 Long paces from muzzle and 68 deg F. Larger sample could change the results a bit. Largest ES was 42 fps. All in new Starline cases and CCI 350 primers.

225gr Barnes XFB with 18.1 gr A#9 avg (1,214 fps (muzzle vel from Labradar)
240gr Cutting Edge Flat Point Mono – 22.6 H110 1,218 fps (1,247 fr 2.5” 329 Alaska Backpacker) Muzzle vel from Labradar
240gr Zero JSP with 24.0gr H110 avg 1,126 fps
240gr JHP Fed Factory avg 1,125 fps (bought at an estate sale “44a 1981 production” – 1,375 fps from 7 ½” RSBH)
260gr WFNGC w/23.0gr H110 avg 1,125 fps
265gr CSWCGC (Lyman Thompson) with 17.5gr A2400 (Deep Seat – crimped over front drive band) 1,119 fps avg
265gr SWCGC (429244) 23.5gr H110, seated and crimped in crimp grove in Mag cases ---------- 1,162 fps

310gr FNGCDC (Lee) with 20.0gr H110 avg 1,100 fps
325gr WLNGC (BTB) with 22.0gr H110 avg 1,104 fps


The 4 ¼” gun gives 40 to 100 fps additional velocity.

I Was curious, so I bought some 305gr Buffalo Bore and Underwood ammo – here are chrono results.

Buffalo Bore, 305 LBT LFN HC rated 1,325 fps
Underwood, 305 LFNGC Plated (HiTech?) rated 1,325 fps
LabRadar muzzle velocity at 33 deg F

S&W M69 2.75" ===> BB 1,195 fps ===> Under 1,147fps
S&W M69 4.25" ===> BB 1,276 fps ===> Under 1,248 fps
Ruger SRH 7.5" ===> BB 1,395 fps ===> Under 1,315 fps





FWIW

Paul

[alamogunr]

I've been sitting on the fence about a Model 69. This thread has convinced me that I need one. It won't replace the Model 696 but will be shot more often, especially with .44 Spec strength loads. .44 Spec has become my cartridge of choice lately. It used to be that when I thought of .44 it was only in terms of Magnum. At my age Magnum is a taboo concept. All kinds of .44 Specials are attractive now.

[Rodfac]

I've had a pair of M-69's since they came out and really like the guns...both with 4.25" bbl's. IIRC, Pearce said in his article on the M-69, that he had leading problems with cast bullets and suggested use of GC's. That's not been the case with either of my guns, however. And I shoot cast ammunition almost exclusively.

I especially like both of the Ray Thompson designs: Lyman's 429215 gc & 429244 gc....both with and without the check. A favorite load is 6.5 gr of Win 231...or the old Skelton prescription: 7.5 gr of Unique...both put up in Special brass. Alloy: ACWW +1% Sn, 50-50 lube and sized to 0.430"- 0.431".

While I rarely resort to jacketed bullets, I've had good luck with Hornady's 200 gr XTP and #9 powder for a good, hard hitting Magnum load for carry.

Good luck with your's, OP, it's a fine handgun...heck...I don't even mind the darned IL or sleeved bbl. anymore! Best Regards, Rod

[murf205]

I've had a pair of M-69's since they came out and really like the guns...both with 4.25" bbl's. IIRC, Pearce said in his article on the M-69, that he had leading problems with cast bullets and suggested use of GC's. That's not been the case with either of my guns, however. And I shoot cast ammunition almost exclusively.

I especially like both of the Ray Thompson designs: Lyman's 429215 gc & 429244 gc....both with and without the check. A favorite load is 6.5 gr of Win 231...or the old Skelton prescription: 7.5 gr of Unique...both put up in Special brass. Alloy: ACWW +1% Sn, 50-50 lube and sized to 0.430"- 0.431".

While I rarely resort to jacketed bullets, I've had good luck with Hornady's 200 gr XTP and #9 powder for a good, hard hitting Magnum load for carry.

Good luck with your's, OP, it's a fine handgun...heck...I don't even mind the darned IL or sleeved bbl. anymore! Best Regards, Rod

Did you measure the throats and slug the bore of your 69's? I know that most newer S&W revolvers have pretty tight throats as in very close to bore diameter. What ever you and Bigboreshooter are doing it must be working to get the accuracy you are. Bigbore, what did you size your boolits to. You guys are giving me the itch for a 69!

[BigboreShooter]

Murf205
All my 44 bullets are sized .4305”. I didn’t measure the bore or throats.From my results so far, I probably never will. The loads I tried, were loads I’ve had work in my other 44’s .

BigboreShooter

[Paul105]

I've "measured" the throats on 7 M69s (three 4 1/4", four 2.75"). All would take a .429" minus pin gauge, but not a .430". I've been shooting a 2.75" M69 w/240gr CSWCBB commerical Hitech coated from several vendors over 17.5gr A2400 deep seated and crimped over the front drive band in .44 mag cases. I have over a thousand rounds thru the gun since I last cleaned the barrel. Vendors claim .430", I haven't miked, so don't know for sure. Never slugged the bore.

FWIW,

Paul

[murf205]

I've "measured" the throats on 7 M69s (three 4 1/4", four 2.75"). All would take a .429" minus pin gauge, but not a .430". I've been shooting a 2.75" M69 w/240gr CSWCBB commerical Hitech coated from several vendors over 17.5gr A2400 deep seated and crimped over the front drive band in .44 mag cases. I have over a thousand rounds thru the gun since I last cleaned the barrel. Vendors claim .430", I haven't miked, so don't know for sure. Never slugged the bore.

FWIW,

Paul

Well if it aint broke, no need to fix it. Thanks for the info.

[Rodfac]

Yep, Murf...Pushing a soft lead round muzzle loading ball through my throats, I got just over 0.430"...I size to that dia. and have used ACWW's with a pinch of tin for years. A good combination up through the Skeeter loads to say 1100 fps or a bit more.

I don't both with changing alloys as a rule, but do resort to gas checks when the spirit moves me. I do anneal them, finding that I get a better fit/crimp on the bullet base that way.

In practice, I dump 500 or so into a stainless steel pot, heat them with a Bernsomatic torch till they glow then dump them on a piece of aluminum foil. They cool in seconds and are dead soft. They do pick up a little black scale...but I don't even bother to tumble them to remove it.

They seat just fine, crimp just fine and my accuracy improves a bit...no flyers from checks shedding in flight I think....but could be wrong...anyway that's my procedure and it's working for me. Best Regards, and you're going to like the gun I suspect. ..Rod

[Three44s]

My brother bought a 4” M69.

I shoot a Mountain Gun a fair amount and the same loads in the “69” were punishing.

My MG wears the factory “Goodyear’s” and many folks stick to .44special loads because of recoil but not me by any means but that 69 in the factory stocks ..... not nice.

The 69 weighs just 2 oz lighter than my MG which scales 39 oz empty.

As I recall when I layed the two together, one on top of the other, the 69 has a grip angle leaning more forward or layed down compared to my 629 MG. The net effect is that under recoil your wrist runs out of travel more easily compared to a 629.

For point of comparison, I shot a 329 4” with bear stompers wearing wooden stocks and I found the 329 to not be too bad. More frisky than a similar length 629 but a piker compared to the 69.

Three44s

[Shuz]

Three44s-- try putting a pair of Smith(Hogue) X frame rubber grips on your brothers 69. I put them on my Mountain Gun, 329PD, and mdl 69 and find the perceived recoil on all to be very similar with 1000 fps loads.

[Three44s]

Three44s-- try putting a pair of Smith(Hogue) X frame rubber grips on your brothers 69. I put them on my Mountain Gun, 329PD, and mdl 69 and find the perceived recoil on all to be very similar with 1000 fps loads.

Shuz,

Thanks ..... I figured that!

I will pass that on to him.

Is the overall size between the 29/629 version the same as the 69 version? I find that while the uncovered back strap with the factory Goodyear grips on my Mountain Gun would be nicer if covered, the overall size and the contour of the factory rubber grip fits my hand ungloved very well.

Best regards and thanks

Three44s

[Shuz]

There is only 1 size of X frame grip made for Smith by Hogue. Seems weird in that the 29 and 629 are on the N frame, and the model 69 is on the L frame.

[Three44s]

Shuz,

That makes it easy to swap them to my MG and try before “the buy”.

Thank you

Three44s

[murf205]

I'm thinking of a pair of Herretts Ropers on a 69. It would look pretty slick but it is hard to beat the Hogues when you step on the gas a bit.

[Rodfac]

I'm thinking of a pair of Herretts Ropers on a 69. It would look pretty slick but it is hard to beat the Hogues when you step on the gas a bit. My thoughts exactly, Murf. But I'm leery of the recoil, even with "Skelton" level loads: (240 gr LSWC's at 960 fps). I'm 75 now and have beat the crud out of my strong hand for 60+ years and it hurts....

I ordered a pair of Altamont "Ropers" a while back, still waiting on delivery though. Got 'em for a Smith 686 headed my way. Between the extra 3 oz. in the full length lug and my 800 fps wadcutter tgt loads, I figured I could comfortably shoot that .357 with my arthritic strong hand thumb. Here's hoping...I'll try them out on a M-19 & a M-66 that I have here, as well.

The Mikulek's on the M-66, below, do real well in DA shooting...I really like them...but they do beat the heck out of my thumb web with strong loads. The Altamonts on the M-19 are great looking and comfortable with tgt level loads but are at least 1/8" thinner at the top of the hump than the Mikuleks and beat me up as well.

I really like wood grips for their looks mostly, but I sure wish some maker would duplicate the Hogue Mono-Grip in good, solid wood (no laminated)...something with a little figure in it that wouldn't necessitate mortgaging the homestead...Best Regards, Rod

https://i.postimg.cc/3NBrRJbc/IMG-E7436.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Three44s]

A strategy that I would use on a 69 that works with my 629 Mountain Gun is to ration the top loads in practice fairly sparingly. I run from just above standard 44 Special power level to my pet load of HS6 running the RCBS 250K to 1066 FPS (11.8 gr of powder). These along with Skeeter Skeltons 8.5 gr of Unique, same bullet all magnum brass get fired the most.

I even carry the HS6 load as long as the bears are down for their winter snooze.

My upper end begins with 20 gr of 2400 and tops out with 23 gr. H110 and either of those are my bear carry pushing the same RCBS cast boolit. I end my practice with a cylinder full of those but do not push myself into losing my edge.

My hat is off to folks that use just high Enders, practice or carry but I feel for me that is detrimental to accuracy and pounds my body unnecessarily.

With my MG, I have fired two cylinder fulls of bear stompers back to back. It’s the limit for me in a gun that weights just 39 oz and is non-ported. But then when will I need to fire more than that? Not often.

In a situation with a human attacker, my HS6 load would be totally adequate and I can continue to shoot that one on a very extended basis.

I love the look of nice wood grips but for function and wearability I have to stick with a set of “Goodyear’s”.

Three44s

[murf205]

Rod, are those M-66 stocks made buy Mikulek? I know how the beat up hand feels (it's been broken 2 times) you and I are the same age.

[243winxb]

Nice shooting. Love seeing the data on plain base bullets. My choice of bullet. Ty for posting.

[Rodfac]

Murf...sorry for not responding sooner...wife was invalided in mid-April with a fall resulting in a broken knee cap, left wrist and a double break of her pelvic arch...total bed rest for three months and now just learning to walk again...been busy you bet.

The M-66 is wearing Mikulek grips sure enough. Really like them for DA shooting but they do punish my stronghand, thumb/trigger finger web. Not generally a problem for me as I load wadcutters to ~800 fps for 90% of my range practice and carry with mostly with the old FBI load (158's at ~950 fps). Both loads will do nicely for all chores here on the farm, save putting down large stock...for that it's one of the .44's and thankfully I haven't had to do that soul deadening chore in quite a while.

Best regards, and good health to you and yours. Rod