RCBS 200 Sil Powder Coated in 308 Winchester

[MUSTANG]

I noticed there are very few posts concerning the 308 RCBS 200 Sil boolit. It's the longer version of the RCBS 165 Sil with an additional drive band and longer nose. I played around with Powder Coating it with Eastwood Green Powder Coat and decided to do some more exploration of this Boolit using BLC2 powder since I have a goodly supply of it.

Last week I began Testing the powder coated.308 RCBS 200 Silhouette in 308 Winchester. A few weeks ago I powder coated and baked the boolits, they were immediately removed and Water Quenched after removing from the oven. Boolit was sized to .309 a week later, gas check seated in this step. The nose of the Boolit was sized using a custom .301 inch Lee Bullet Sizer die. The die was turned into the press four full turns, the boolit nose sized; then driven back out of the die with a punch and mallet. .308 Win cases were full length sized, neck tension was established with the factory expander in the sizing die.

Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 40 Mph left to right.
Temp: 15 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinnel Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .309
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: Eastwood
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: BLC2 30 Grains
Primer: CCI-34
Case: Mixed military and commercial Brass
OAL: 2.80 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.
10 Shot Group Size: 5.108 MOA

296059

[MUSTANG]

Went back to the range today shooting the powder coated.308 RCBS 200 Silhouette in 308 Winchester. This group size improved over last (Not sure if due to less wind; or more powder/faster bullet speed).

After powder coating and cooking, the boolits were Water Quenched immediately after removing from the oven. Boolit was sized to .309 a week later, gas check seated in this step. The nose of the Boolit was sized using a custom .301 inch Lee Bullet Sizer die, the boolit nose sized; then driven back out of the die with a punch and mallet. This time the die was only turned into the press two full turns. .308 Win cases were full length sized, neck tension was established with the factory expander in the sizing die.

Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 5 Mph left to right.
Temp: 40 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinnel Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .309
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: Eastwood
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: BLC2 33 Grains
Primer: CCI-34
Case: Mixed military and commercial Brass
OAL: 2.80 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.
10 Shot Group Size: 2.866 MOA

296060

[Thumbcocker]

What velocity?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[MUSTANG]

Not sure; will not be able to chronograph until Spring Melt. There is a snow drift at the Rifle Shooting positions that precludes placing Tripod and Chronograph out.

Looking at the Hodgdon reloading Data Center; a 180 grain jacketed bullet with 42 grains of BLC2 in a .308 Winchester has a listed velocity of 2,202 fps.

[Thumbcocker]

Sweet. We have gotten good results with 842 in the .308. 1:11" twist. Using lighter boolits.

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[wmitty]

How do these groups compare to those of the same boolit design without the powder coat? Have you tried the powder coated boolits with a slower burning powder? What are the land and groove diameters of your barrel?

[MUSTANG]

My barrel is .300/.308.

The following pic lists sizes on the "As Cast Boolit". The .300 measurement is at the start of the Ogive.

Middle Boolit has been powder coated-water dropped, and gas check applied while sizing boolit to .310; nose remains as cast and powder coated.

Far right Boolit is same as the .309's in this thread. Boolit was Powder Coated - water dropped, gas check applied and sized to .309. Nose was then sized in the .301 Lee Sizer die (Screwed into press 2 turns - results in .301 diameter from middle of nose forward.).

296121

Note: A loaded round at OAL of 2.80 will NOT allow my rifle bolt to close using a powder coated and sized .310 or .309 Boolit - UNLESS the powder coated nose is sized down to .301 (Lee .301 die screwed down into the RCBS Rock Chucker at least 2 turns).

[megasupermagnum]

I think you should either normally lube, or tumble lube, and run through a .310" die for the gas check. Seems like a lot of messing around to make those work with powdercoat.

[Forrest r]

Glad to see your posting the different things you're doing to your cast/coated bullets.

Don't know if this will help or not, from an old hodgdon reloading manual (25ft edition). The manual lists (308w) loads using winchester cases and nato cases using a 24" barrel.

Winchester cases bl-c2 200gr bt jacketed bullet
40gr 22100fps 43,000cup 42gr 2364fps 47,100cup

Nato cases bl-c2 200gr bt jacketed bullet
37gr 2100fps 40,000cup 39gr 2264fps 46,900cup

[MUSTANG]

Glad to see your posting the different things you're doing to your cast/coated bullets.

Don't know if this will help or not, from an old hodgdon reloading manual (25ft edition). The manual lists loads using winchester cases and nato cases using a 24" barrel.

Winchester cases bl-c2 200gr bt jacketed bullet
40gr 22100fps 43,000cup 42gr 2364fps 47,100cup

Nato cases bl-c2 200gr bt jacketed bullet
37gr 2100fps 40,000cup 39gr 2264fps 46,900cup


Working up to those BLC2 40-ish (+) charge levels. Wanting to see and document group sizes. In cast boolits of all weights and dimensions, there are lots of Load References and individual postings across the Interweb citing successes, failures, suggestions, and even outright "On High" pronouncements of how it should be done. I have discovered published individual comments on this boolit ranging from Tremendous disappointment to Elated claims of Super Accurate; inevitably with no load data for claims on both sides of the spectrum - or anything in between.

In some ways this thread is a Time Filling Hobby in retirement; and other ways it's a keep the mind sharp through research-thought-process implementation.

In today's world, many on this site and elsewhere have an overwhelming volume of choices in cast boolits and powders to choose from in what is now called the META-VERSE; but when reality rears it's ugly head they can only have/procure a very narrow limited set of materials. I had on hand for this thread two items "On the Shelf" in larger quantities (discounting many things on the shelf in lesser quantities) - these were .308 RCBS 200 Sil boolits cast a couple of years ago; and a good quantity of BLC2 Powder. Hoping that for those with these resources on hand the thread is beneficial (particularly the younger's who have not experienced these shortages before).

Another driver was the limited specific information published concerning the .308 RCBS 200 Sil boolit. This boolit does not appear in the RCBS Cast Bullet Manual Number 1 (I bought a copy of this when it first came out many years ago); and RCBS has not made such a manual since.

Anyway; it will be interesting to see if/when those group pictures start opening up; or hopefully an area where they shrink some. The other part is the Powder Coating which I decided to use vs lubing them on my Lyman Lubrisizer. Unlike wax/grease lubes, Powder Coating I find "Field Convenient" as they do not pick up grit or fibers when in a pocket, laying out on the shooting bench, dropping to the ground, stored on a shelf, or trapping through the Woods/Desert in other carrying devices.

Appreciate those watching and commenting. Maybe this will facilitate others with the .308 RCBS 200 sil mold sitting on the shelf to get it down and give it another go.

[Shuz]

FWIW -- I once had a .30 cal rifle with a 1:12 twist that would not stabilize any bullet over 165 grains.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't keep up on rifle bullets, but I've never heard anything special about this one. My gut reaction when I see the picture of the dimensions is that those bullets as-cast look beautiful, can't get much better. Once you coat them, and start sizing, plus nose sizing, it looks like it ruins it to me. You loose all of the intended taper.

[charlie b]

He doesn't remove all the taper, just the part that is slid into the bore.

My Savage has a throat that does not freely chamber the Lyman 311299 because the nose portion is too big with conventional lube. The 165SIL is just right without PC. When I ordered my Acc 31-210E mold I had the size adjusted for PC. I still nose size to make sure they are just touching the rifling after PC.

Several suggestions here. First, sort your brass (especially mil surplus and commercial) and drill out the primer flash holes. I also weight sort my brass just to make sure I don't have one way out from the rest. Then weight sort the bullets. This also serves as a final quality check on the bullets in case you get one with an internal void. With all of these variables I am not that surprised at >2" groups. For me the biggest effects on group size are sorted bullets and single headstamp brass. I went from ~2" groups to ~1" groups from those two.

Am not sure how BLC2 performs, but, 4198, 3031 and Varget are position sensitive. I 'wobble' the rifle when on the bags to make sure the powder is kinda level in the case (at least not forward). Tipping the muzzle up before shooting will do the same. You can add dacron if your powder shows similar sensitivity.

[MUSTANG]

Well. Perhaps I did a "Should Not Have" this morning. Went to the range with 10 rounds loaded 2 grains hotter at 35 Grains - BUT, I decided to Run a brass brush with bore cleaner through the barrel 10-12 times, then cleaned out with a few patches. Resulted in the First shot being 2 & 1/2 inches high at 11 o'clock from the bull; then the next 1 & 1/2 inches high at 1 o'clock from the bull. The balance of the shots began to walk down the target generally Top Left to Bottom Right direction; then the last 4 shots clustered on or slightly above the bull at 1 O'clock. Not sure I can blame the Bore Cleaning for the open group; but it was interesting plotting the shots. If the 1st and 2nd shot were discounted as "Fowlers" the Group would have been about 3.07 MOA. With all 10 rounds the group size as shot are 4.033 MOA.

Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 5 Mph left to right.
Temp: 26 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinnel Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .309
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: Eastwood
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: BLC2 35 Grains
Primer: CCI-34
Case: Mixed military and commercial Brass
OAL: 2.80 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.
10 Shot Group Size: 4.033 MOA

296263

[MUSTANG]

Shot another group; this time changes were 35.5 Grains BLC2, use of a Dacron Filler, and boolit body sized to .310 inches. Group size this time was 4.031 MOA compared to post #14 above at 4.033. I am interpreting this as a no impact from slightly larger body (.310 vs .309), and Dacron filler. Think I will back down on powder charge, thinking that 35 grain range might be the High end and exploring that 33 Grain and below area for much better accuracy. Noses on these were sized to .301 as described previously above.


Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 10 to 15 Mph left to right.
Temp: 36 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinnel Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .310
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: Eastwood
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: BLC2 35.5 Grains with a Dacron Filler
Primer: CCI-34
Case: Mixed military and commercial Brass
OAL: 2.80 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.
10 Shot Group Size: 4.031 MOA

296518

[MUSTANG]

Tested two loads of the RCBS 200 Sil today. One completely coated with Eastwood PC and this one with only the Drive Bands Coated in Eastwood Powder Coat. To coat the bands only; the nose of the boolit was inserted into a 30-06 case; then the bands and body were swirled in a plastic tub, the base rubbed on the bottom to form static, then swirled until the bands were entirely coated. The boolit was then backed in the oven for 40 minutes and air cooled. Aluminum Gas Check applied after PC. Boolit then sized to .310. Powder was 30 grains BLC2.


The specs for todays bands only coated test were:

Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 10 Mph left to right.
Temp: 30 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette - Drive Bands only coated
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinnel Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .310
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: Eastwood
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: BLC2 30.0 Grains with a Dacron Filler
Primer: CCI-34
Case: Mixed military and commercial Brass
OAL: 2.80 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.
10 Shot Group Size: 1.876 MOA


This was the best group today.

297454

[MUSTANG]

The Second load of the RCBS 200 Sil today, completely coated with Eastwood Powder Coat. The boolit was then backed in the oven for 40 minutes and air cooled. The nose only was sized in a Lee .301 Sizer die. Aluminum Gas Check applied after PC. Boolit then sized to .310. Powder was 30 grains BLC2.

The specs for todays bands only coated test were:

Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 10 Mph left to right.
Temp: 30 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette - Entire Boolit Powder Coated.
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinnel Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .310
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: Eastwood
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: BLC2 30.0 Grains with a Dacron Filler
Primer: CCI-34
Case: Mixed military and commercial Brass
OAL: 2.80 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.
10 Shot Group Size: 3.977 MOA

297456

[lar45]

Hi Mustang, looks like your clean noses shot pretty good. :)
If I might suggest something, consider sorting your military brass from the commercial brass. Then try the same clean noses with either commercial or military brass...
It would be interesting to see if it tightened your group or not.

[MUSTANG]

Back to the Range. Shooting two Cast Boolits with Powder Coating. The RCBS 200 Sil with BLC2 Powder and LeverEvolution Powder.

[MUSTANG]

Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 5 Mph left to right.
Temp: 75 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette – Entire Boolit Coated
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinell Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .310
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: Eastwood Green
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: BLC2 30.0 Grains with a Dacron Filler
Primer: CCI-34
Case: PMC Brass
OAL: 2.80 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.
10 Shot Group Size: 1.15 MOA

301707

5 Round Velocities:

30 Gr BLC2 RCBS 200 SIL
1783
1759
1765
1756
1839
Avg FPS: 1,780

[MUSTANG]

Rifle: Remington 700 ADL Varmint .308
Barrel Twist: 1 in 12
Wind: 5 Mph left to right.
Temp: 75 degrees F.
Boolit: 308 RCBS 200 Silhouette – Entire Boolit Coated
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.255
Brinell Hardness: 20
Bullet sized: .310
Alloy: 96% Lead, 3% Antimony, 1% Tin
Bullet Powder Coated: Eastwood
Gas Check: Ameri-max Aluminum 0.14”
Powder: LeverEvolution 32.0 Grains with a Dacron Filler
Primer: CCI-34
Case: PMC Brass
OAL: 2.80 inches
Distance: 100 Yards.
10 Shot Group Size: 3.4 MOA

301708

Velocities - 5 Rounds

32 Gr LeverEvolution RCBS 200 SIL

1999
1956
1922
1925
1929
Avg FPS: 1,946

[MUSTANG]

LeverEvolution does not prove out as an "Optimal" Powder with my .308 cast boolits. Larry Gibson has made that comment elsewhere; but I continue to document his long term observation on LeverEvolution with cast.