Tapered expander for 35 Whelen from 06?

[Rfeustel]

Hi,

The manual of cartridge conversions talks about expanding the neck of a 30-06 before putting it through the Whelen die. I’ve also read that some just put it in the whelen die.

On the former - I’d be grateful for leads on a tapered expander for just such a purpose. LE Wilson doesn’t make one that big. Do I need a custom tapered expander or is something out there I haven’t found?

Thank you

[cwtebay]

RCBS makes one for 0.358".
I believe that they are available on their website.

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[Rfeustel]

RCBS makes one for 0.358".
I believe that they are available on their website.

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Oh heck CWTEbay - I just need a normal neck expander for a 35 cal?
Thank you!

[cwtebay]

Oh heck CWTEbay - I just need a normal neck expander for a 35 cal?
Thank you!Well ... I haven't ever made 35 Whelen from 30-06 with mine. I got it to make 35/30 out of 30 WCF brass (because I got cheap and didn't want to waste components on COW method). It works for that after one firing to make the shoulder bump forward.
Granted, I only have neck forming dies for that cartridge because...well I'm too cheap to spring for the custom dies and the 35 Remington neck sizer set works just fine.

[SoonerEd]

I just run mine through a RCBS FL die. But do use a really good lube. I only trust imperial sizing wax. It's never had a stuck case forming brass like other lubes I've tried. Before I form brass i clean my die real well and polish the inside a bit with flitz or something similar. Seems to help. I do size as quick as I can. I've found if I go slow the brass in the neck seems to be more inconsistent in thickness with a thin spot. When I'm making brass for sorting in 1 grain increments, I'll annel as well. Seems to help with consistency.

About half of my whelen brass is formed LC brass from 1 year. Made about 150 cases.

[cwtebay]

SoonerEd makes excellent points. Annealing properly is key, and your lube selection makes the task sooooooo much easier. With or without the expanding die!
I do have to ask though - was your case loss significant without expansion first?
I began with annealing and the COW method and virgin brass, then got cheap (AND lazy - cleaning out COW ain't super fun!!) and purchased the RCBS die. The die is of zero use without proper cleaning and lube.


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[Rfeustel]

SoonerEd makes excellent points. Annealing properly is key, and your lube selection makes the task sooooooo much easier. With or without the expanding die!
I do have to ask though - was your case loss significant without expansion first?
I began with annealing and the COW method and virgin brass, then got cheap (AND lazy - cleaning out COW ain't super fun!!) and purchased the RCBS die. The die is of zero use without proper cleaning and lube.


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Following this, good stuff here.

[cwtebay]

I guess one other tip - tiny strokes into the expander - then 1/4 turn the brass, repeat. Repeat until the neck is where you want it. It seems like an immense amount of time invested, but it does pay in completed brass for me.
YMMV

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[Outer Rondacker]

Your brass will have to be fire formed after you convert it. It comes up a bit short.

[pworley1]

I just anneal the 30 06 and run it through sizing die with the expander in the die. I might lose 1 out of 200.

[15meter]

Redding makes a series of tapered expanding plugs.

I've used them in the past taking .243 Winchester to .260 Remington.

The Redding plug worked nicely.

The 30 to 375 may be what you are looking for. Take above diameter, then F/L size and bring it back down to target diameter.

I would also expand and final size before annealing. I have crumpled shoulders when I have tried annealing first.

And I think if you have brass that may have hidden flaws, it will show up during forming not on the first or second loading if annealed after forming.

Been there done that, have fed the recycle brass bucket:groner:

[TurnipEaterDown]

I have a 35 Whelen Improved, and in regard to this OP question, it isn't any different than the standard.

I just neck up brass from 30-06.

I never annealed prior, and have used military pull down, once fired commercial, and cases from commercial 06 repeatedly fired in 06 chambers.
I have used the Redding die I have to expand the necks directly, and have used a Hornady die w/ the Eliptical expander ball.

Frankly, on initial upsize of the neck I Much prefer the Hornady. I bought a 30 cal Hornady Neck Size die long ago, and an assortment of the eliptical expanders 338-416 as replacement parts. Screw the stem very far down so I can change the ball easily and never run the case neck past the body portion of the die to avoid damaging the "new" neck. I have stretched a lot of brass this way for a variety of catridges that require forming.

I lube the inside of the case necks now w/ Imperial Size Die Wax when expanding, and find that 0.050" step up is easy in one stroke.
Clean the inside of the neck afterwards if you do it this way. I use a q-tip and gun scrubber frequently, or sometimes just alcohol.

[garandsrus]

There are threads here where people (including me) are using tapered expanders and going from 30-30 to 38-55 in one pass through the press, which is equivalent to what you are doing. Very few split necks. I don’t anneal first.

[farmbif]

30-06 brass works with just running a 35 Whelen die through it. I think its the lee that has a good taper on the expander. found that out by accident when bass pro clearance had lee 35 Whelen die sets for 9.99 I could not pass them by. but I had been using either Hornady or rcbs. but 30-06 brass is tad short but shoots well in the Whelen I got anyway.
ive never yet gotten 270 brass expanded up to 35 Whelen it always cracks on me.
but one thing I think might be important is that the 30-06 your starting with be either new, once that is ONCE fired or annealed.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Lee makes tapered expanders that work in their 'Universal Decapping Die', I have their tapered expanders in 8mm, 338, 348, 358 and 375. Available from MidwayUSA. I use them to take 308 to 358 Win. I use two steps, 338 then 358. Two easy expansions seem to work better than just 308 to 358. Lee EZ-X Expander Decapping Rod I anneal after expanding. If you get case splits, anneal before expanding AND maybe after.

[Mk42gunner]

The RCBS .35 Whelen die set has a tapered expander plug in the decapping die that works fine for anything over the .270 Winchester. Its leading portion is too large to fit in the neck of a .25-06 case though.

Since .270 cases are a bit longer than the parent 30-06 case they are supposed to come out the right length when expanded for the .35 Whelen. Since I don't have a .270, I can't remember ever trying it.

I have to admit the very few cases I have expanded were of the "It is supposed to work, let's see" variety. All my using cases for the .35 Whelen are factory R-P.

Robert

[dh2]

May be I went the hard way about it but I run it through a 338 win mag die as a step up.

[Rfeustel]

Sounds like the lee tapered expander is a definite option. The shape looks real good. Fact it fits in the universal die is a real plus.

[DonHowe]

Based on experience forming .338-06 I would expand the neck to .375 then bring the neck back to .358 in the Whelen die. Reduce the neck until bolt just closes on a chambered case. Fireforming nails headspace on the case.

BTW, Redding makes tapered expanders as does Lee.

[calm seas]

Hornady makes a tapered expander I have used to stretch 7mm to 358. As others say, a good lube is critical.

[nicholst55]

The Redding .35 Whelen FL sizer comes with a tapered expander to take it from 7mm/.284 up to .358". If you can find either .270 Win or .280 Rem brass, it works better than .30-06. The .270 typically comes out just a tad short (.001-.002"), while the .280 brass typically needs a slight trim.

[Walks]

My OLD Lyman .35Whelen came with Taper Expander.

[Rfeustel]

The Redding .35 Whelen FL sizer comes with a tapered expander to take it from 7mm/.284 up to .358". If you can find either .270 Win or .280 Rem brass, it works better than .30-06. The .270 typically comes out just a tad short (.001-.002"), while the .280 brass typically needs a slight trim.

Thant’s interesting, thank you. I’ve got a new Redding set coming. I’ll check that out.

[cwtebay]

I am intrigued by everyone's success going from 0.308"-0.358" in one pass with seemingly no issues!
I believe that I will try that out this weekend with some 30 WCF to 35/30.

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[Rapier]

I have two 35 Whelen dies both have taper plugs, a sngle pass does the job, you must lube the case properly, lube the neck inside and out.

I may be getting an old 350 (35 WCF) Winchester, which per COTW can be made using 30-40 Brass, although it comes out a bit short in case length. I figure a couple of fire forming and they should be pretty close to length.
I will need a die set if theis deal comes to fruition.

[Tonto]

Forming 357 Herrett with the TC dies (Hornady) was always easy with their tapered expander and this is a die from the 80’s. I often wondered if swapping that out in another die would work for the Whelan.

[SoonerEd]

...lube the neck inside and out....

I forgot to mention this in my post. I use a nylon brush with dry lubricant for inside the neck. Make sure the inside necks are cleaned. I like to wet tumble my brass for necking up. Can make the brass cleaner/smoother. Remember in any case forming operation "smooth" is your friend.

[15meter]

I forgot to mention this in my post. I use a nylon brush with dry lubricant for inside the neck. Make sure the inside necks are cleaned. I like to wet tumble my brass for necking up. Can make the brass cleaner/smoother. Remember in any case forming operation "smooth" is your friend.

This plus Imperial wax on the ID will help immeasurably. I've polished the cases with Nu-Finish car polish and walnut shells for hours, then polished the neck ID with a brass brush chucked in the drill press.

The Imperial is applied to the ID with a Q-Tip. Cleanest, smoothest you can get it, the easier it is to get best looking and functioning cases.

And don't forget to anneal after forming for best case life.

I like shiny brass.

[Rfeustel]

This plus Imperial wax on the ID will help immeasurably. I've polished the cases with Nu-Finish car polish and walnut shells for hours, then polished the neck ID with a brass brush chucked in the drill press.

The Imperial is applied to the ID with a Q-Tip. Cleanest, smoothest you can get it, the easier it is to get best looking and functioning cases.

And don't forget to anneal after forming for best case life.

I like shiny brass.

15Meter you saying I should use dry AND imperial wax on the inside of the neck?

[garandsrus]

It is pretty easy to lube the punch instead of the case neck also.

[15meter]

It is pretty easy to lube the punch instead of the case neck also.

I mis-quoted, point I was clumsily trying to make was clean as possible plus lube on the ID. I've done dry lube and the Imperial wax. I think I get less friction with the Imperial.

Sorry about the confusion.

I've never done both at the same time, just for grins, may have to try it.

[SoonerEd]

Hopefully 15meter will not mind me answering....no do not use both, one or the other. I've used both and I can't tell the difference. If you do use the imperial for ID, good idea to clean the sizing button if you switch to dry lub. Also on the imperial there is a reason it comes in a small tin. You don't need much and on most resizings, you don't need it on the outside shoulder. Only if your forming something where the shoulder gets a lot of pressure like a necking down operation. Just likely to cause dents. Use it on the neck and body for necking up if the shoulder isn't being sweezed. You can start with some on the shoulder but if you get dents back off until they go away.

[Milsurp Junkie]

I have gone from 243 to 258 Winchester in a single pass with Lee dies. I did lube it well (laonlin/IPA mixture) but i didnt get any splits. I did anneal afterwards, as i figured that this amount of stretching would work harden the necks. I do ensure that the case mouths are flush, and deburred as it seems that the splits start at a burr.

[lar45]

Lee dies have a very nice tapered expander ball. When I'm necking things up, I try to use the lee dies as steps when ever I can.