Surplus IMR 4895

[Leatherbark]

A friend of mine has been offered 34 pounds of what is supposed to be surplus 4895 in plastic bags inside ammo cans for $20 per pound. I told him it might be WW2 pull down powder. We are scared it might be too old. Any advice?

Thank you

Bob

[SSGOldfart]

Yep,Run away and don't look back. It could be anything JMHO[smilie=2:

[smkummer]

I would be almost interested if I could compare under a micro scope with known IMR4895. Then if that passed, I would ignite equal spoonful amounts to check for flash height, color and intensity. After passing that, than start with a starting load or lighter than has a known velocity posted. I would compare that on a chronograph with known 4895 to compare velocity. Then and only after passing all of this, would I slowly work up to a known load. And this load would be shot in a modern bolt action first. Not a cherished M1 garand first.

[dverna]

I would be almost interested if I could compare under a micro scope with known IMR4895. Then if that passed, I would ignite equal spoonful amounts to check for flash height, color and intensity. After passing that, than start with a starting load or lighter than has a known velocity posted. I would compare that on a chronograph with known 4895 to compare velocity. Then and only after passing all of this, would I slowly work up to a known load. And this load would be shot in a modern bolt action first. Not a cherished M1 garand first.

Seems like a sensible approach.

$20/lb is $160/jug. My stash is at about $185/jug so I would pass as I do not need it. If the new price down the road is $225/jug, I still do not think it is worth the effort or risk.

It comes down to how much do you need it, and how frugal are you. Balanced against how much knowledge you have and the risks.

I am not very knowledgeable, have a low tolerance for risk and no urgent need. Thus why I would walk on the opportunity even though it is one of my "go to" and stocking powders.

[Adam Helmer]

Bob,

I would definitely PASS on Old powder of unknown pedigree in "plastic bags." Quality control may not have been practiced and a pound or two of other powders may be in the mix!!! I treasure my guns and my life too much to snatch up a "good deal." There is a difference between price and VALUE.

Adam

[Electrod47]

Yep,Run away and don't look back. It could be anything JMHO[smilie=2:

Exactly.....In this current environment I wouldn't trust anything like this.

[Leatherbark]

Thanks everyone. The guy's father was a long time reloader. He told us to use starting data for new IMR 4895. Maybe I'll try 1 pound first. Although it is in plastic bags it is in 12 pound lots sealed in 50 caliber ammo cans.

Bob

[1Papalote]

��������what he thought was H2O, was H2S04��������
I'm not one for mystery components.

[ascast]

Everyone should own an old bolt gun for just this type of thing. Powder does not get "stronger" with age, it gets weaker. You wont be able to chrono any loads without a gun. You could fire them with gun in old tire and see how that goes. I suspect it fine, but caution is best. good luck

[Larry Gibson]

Back in the day, when i first started reloading, I bought surplus 4895 by the scoopful out of a large barrel in a hardware store. The scoopfuls were but into paper bags ar a coffee can if i brought it in with me. The last surplus 4895 I bought back in '05 came in white plastic jugs. I recall Hodgdon 4895 at the time could be bought in cardboard boxes with the powder in plastic bags inside. If it hasn't deteriorated by visual and smell I would by it. It's easy enough to test with low pressure cast bullet loads.

[HWooldridge]

��������what he thought was H2O, was H2S04��������
I'm not one for mystery components.
I have a cousin named Little Willy…fortunately, he is not a risk taker…

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Do you own a chronograph?

[Handloader109]

$20 a pound? I bought NEW IMR4895 last fall for $37 a pound for only 6 pounds delivered with stupid shipping and hazmat. would have worked out $5 or 6 a pound less if Powder Valley would have had anything else available. So, really is it worth it to buy at 40% off? Nope. If it were $5 a pound, I might would try a bit.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[gee-gaw]

Wish it was available to me. I’d buy 20 pounds and not look back. It’s not a problem to work up a safe load with unknown powder, you just approach the situation methodically while taking precautions.

[AlHunt]

If it passes the look and smell test and you trust the seller's memory and you use due caution, you'll probably get away with it.

Too many "if's" for me when powder is available, even at higher prices and spotty availability.

[Hootmix]

"WHO", knows if it is powder? A lot of underhanded stuff going on these days. I would take someone who does reload and uses different powders & have them look at it.

coffee's ready, Hootmix.

[skeettx]

My method, treat it like bullseye first ( 3 or 4 grains of power)
Load up one load, and if the bullet does not clear the barrel, use a rod and remove it
Next, treat it like 4227, etc
Next like 4198
Next like 3031
Then like 4895

BUT $20 per pound for an unknown powder seems HIGH

[Kosh75287]

How well do you know this friend, and does any of the powder smell "sharp" or like vinegar? If not, then use the procedures described by SMKUMMER and the gentleman from Amarillo to do a load work up. If you encounter no issues, I'D haggle over price.

[LynC2]

Personally I'd pass on it, especially on large amounts. A few years ago I dumped over 16 lbs of surplus 4895 on my lawn that had gone bad before I had time to use it and I wasn't the only one in my group that did that. It may be fine at present, but in a few months who knows?

[Buckshot]

............I had an 01 FFL for 20 some years. PArt of that time I happily shot EVERY TUESDAY with 3-4 guys regularly at Inland Fish & Game in San Bernardino, CA. I never thought about how unique that was, and what a blessing. We all cast, so obviously we all were reloaders. Best of all, we all simply enjoyed shooting so we all had similar hardware.

We had a match each Tuesday. Since we'd call in an order to the Mexican restaurant up the 2 lane for lunch we called it the "Burrito Invitational" I used to post the weekly results here on the board. We were "Hard Core" according to some of the pother range shooters, because we shot the match standing up and used iron sights. Several times we were told "You can't hit anything doing that", but oddly enough we did. Usually it was 10 shots. Sometimes we'd have kibitzers, and sometimes even guys who'd been interested in trying, but alas and alack, they were using those copper jacketed thingamabobs.

Sometimes it would be at 50 yards. Sometimes it was 5 at 50 yds and the other 5 at 100 yards. A lot depended on the weather. No 100 yard if it was too hot, too cold, or raining, or too tired to walk pout and back :-) We'd even shoot muzzle loaders on occasion. Not too often 'cause a couple guys were baby's and throw a fit because of the cleanup, but they generally got over it. I do believe that every one of us owned a 58 Cal Zouave (doesn't everybody?).

I do have to admit that they got tired of me suggesting MLer's all the time after I got my Whitworth, because that was a for sure $4-$5 in my pocket and I really enjoyed it, while to them it was simply dirty smelly work. So with a gang like that, it was usually not a lot of trouble to put together a powder order, and also primers on occasion. One time Graf & Sons had a deal that if you ordered 96 lbs of powder, they'd ship it for free to a business address. So us Burrito Shooters put together an order, and had it shipped to the range with the rifle ranges permission. First I knew it had arrived was when I got a call from the San Bernardino PD wanting to know what I was going to do with all that powder?

I explained and all was great. Lemme tell ya though, when I went to pick it up I found out that it was the head honcho of the trap range who'd called the PD. From that day on I had a real issue with those shotgunners lemme tell ya. So we also did quite a bit of business with surplus powders. I still have 8 lb jugs of 3 different kinds of IMR 4895. The rectangle jugs were labeled IMR4895 with lot numbers, then jugs marked 4895 PD (Pull Down), and then simply 4895 (no lot number). But also WC844, WC846, Wc852 and Wc852 (Fast).

We'd go to the big Gun Show at the Los Angeles Fair grounds, 3 times a year and on the way out stop at MiWall and grab several cases of primers (like $60 @ 5K sleeve). Just to have, ya know? After several years, that Female Hyena who is now the Speaker of the House, Maxine Waters was a LA City council member and finally got the gun show shut down, the %^$^^&*& itch! All the restaurants and motels/Hotels fought it hard as they made big money.

So, good things don't last forever and just like the gun show, a developer and their gang of lawyers came in and put the range out of business. Found out the rifle/pistol range could have remained, but the shotgun range wasn't. Since the entire board of directors were shotgunners, they didn't care. Heck, on the other side of the valley was Redlands shooting park, a world class shotgun facility. Just they wouldn't be big shots like at Inland Fish and game.

............Buckshot