Misbehaving 358627

[FISH4BUGS]

I have a Lyman 358627 DC 215 gr swc gc bullet mould. It used to throw great bullets and I am working up a load for the 357 Rifle with this bullet. I have cast three or four hundred bullets flawlessly in the past. Yesterday it was snowing heavily here in New Hampshire so guess what???....casting day in the shed!
The mould, however, is beginning to misbehave.
I can smoke the cavities (with a wooden match) and get ONE cast that the bullets fall out easily. Then the bullets start to stick. The inside (closest to me) cavity will fall out with a small tap of the handles or hinge pin, and the outside (farthest away from me) often comes out only with the use of explosives. I have to literally pound on the handles with a neoprene mallet or lead hammer to make it come out. There is no OBVIOUS evidence of burrs, etc. that would hang it up in the mould.
I have to beat on the handles so hard that the mould screws loosen up. This can't be good for the mould. They have to be tightened about every 10 casts, along with resmoking the cavities with a wooden match.
If that isn't bad enough, the guide pins ( I think that is what they are called) that align the mould when it closes) seem to get out of alignment, for I can see a gap between the mould blocks when I hold it up to the light. If I turn the mould on its side, and get the sprue plate out of the way, a tap on the blocks seems to close them up tightly and every thing is OK for a few casts, then it starts all over again. I get severe finning when it is doing this, so I think I know what the problem is.
I don't know how to fix it.
This promises to be a great buillet, for with 296 powder you can get about 1400 fps out of a RIFLE with this 215 gr bullet in 357.
Most of the bullets came out perfectly, the finned ones just went back into the pot.....but having to pound on this mould cannot be doing it any good!
Any suggestions as to how to:
1) stop the bullets from sticking
2) keep the screws tight on the mould
3) how to tap the alignment pins or something to make it align better.
Thanks!

[Ben]

Your finning is caused by the mold blocks not fully closing ( you stated that you could see daylight between the mold halves when they were closed )

Try taking the mold blocks off of the handles. Now put the 2 halves together and hold them up to the light.

If they fit properly, your handles are interfering with proper mold closure.

If they don't fit together properly, you've got some lead splatter on the face of the molds or your alignment pins are sticking out too far.

As to your bullets sticking, let me refer you to a post that might be of interest to you.

I had the same problem with a Lee mold, this " cure " will also work with your Lyman :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=31700

[Catshooter]

The human eye can generally see strong light through a gap of about .001 but lead won't flow through that small a gap, not with the pressures we use in casting. So if you can't see light, it won't fin. You probably knew that already.

So, the last time you cast with this mould a severe beating wasn't needed. Now it is. I would try to pin down - what changed 'tween then and now?


Cat

[FISH4BUGS]

As far as I can recall, nothing changed. I think I know what the problem is, I just don't know how to fix it. Taking the rough edges off might do it via Leementing.
How do I tap those alignment pins? How hard? How deep? Using what?
If I Leement the mould, how can I get the screw centered? I don't have a drill press or a machine shop. I want to do this right, not destroy the mould.
I ran hotter in the furnace and cooler. No difference. I use the same alloy all the time - 5 lbs ww to 1lb linotype.
I am just frustrated and would try almost anything at this point. I don't want to destroy this mould - it is kinda uncommon and I want to use it in my 357 rifle.
Donald

[725]

If you can't fix it or are tenative about messing with it, Lyman has a rehab service. Contact them and see what they say. Include some cast boolits when you send it and fully describe the problems like you did above.

[FISH4BUGS]

725:
I am interested in the expertise of those here that know far more than I do. I did not know about their "rehab" service. I will talk to Lyman tomorrow.
I'll take any and all other suggestions to heart. I really would like to learn how to do this. I never had this problem with any of my H&G Moulds or RCBS Moulds (cheap shot - sorry).

[Wayne Smith]

Just a wild hair, but how is your shed heated? What is the difference in room temp. from when you cast last time and this time?

[monadnock#5]

You might have a crud buildup. Look at the base of the pins where they stick through the block half, and in the holes in the mating block. Use a good strong light and a magnifier. It's not uncommon for all manner of gunk, crud and nasties to get jammed in, and weld themselves in place. Use a sharp scribe to remove the debris from the base of the pins, then scrub them with a brass brush. For the holes, take a 5/32 drill, and WITH YOUR FINGERS ONLY, turn the bit to remove the course stuff, and then use a .17 cal bore brush to finish it.

I suspect that at various times in the last 12 centuries Lyman has changed the size of the pins and holes, so be careful. The sizes I quoted may not be what your mould needs. If worse comes to worst, go to the local industrial supply and select a drill bit by inserting the shank into the hole. One that enters freely with very little or no wobble is just right. Remember, you don't want enlarge the hole, just clean it.

After opening and closing the mould many times, the pins and holes will wear and get sloppy. That's when you want to drive the pins out a little bit. I don't believe that's what is ailing your mould though, so try cleaning them first.

[FISH4BUGS]

Just a wild hair, but how is your shed heated? What is the difference in room temp. from when you cast last time and this time?

I don't think it was that different. I have a Hurricane Products heater that sits on top of a propane tank that heats the shed. It was cold outside but inside - maybe 40 degrees or so, but as I recall, it wasn't all that different from the last time I cast.
Believe me, I have found stranger reasons for odd behavior in the past.

[FISH4BUGS]

You might have a crud buildup. Look at the base of the pins where they stick through the block half, and in the holes in the mating block. Use a good strong light and a magnifier. It's not uncommon for all manner of gunk, crud and nasties to get jammed in, and weld themselves in place. Use a sharp scribe to remove the debris from the base of the pins, then scrub them with a brass brush. For the holes, take a 5/32 drill, and WITH YOUR FINGERS ONLY, turn the bit to remove the course stuff, and then use a .17 cal bore brush to finish it.

I suspect that at various times in the last 12 centuries Lyman has changed the size of the pins and holes, so be careful. The sizes I quoted may not be what your mould needs. If worse comes to worst, go to the local industrial supply and select a drill bit by inserting the shank into the hole. One that enters freely with very little or no wobble is just right. Remember, you don't want enlarge the hole, just clean it.

After opening and closing the mould many times, the pins and holes will wear and get sloppy. That's when you want to drive the pins out a little bit. I don't believe that's what is ailing your mould though, so try cleaning them first.
From a fellow NH caster! Thanks...I will take that suggestion and check it out. I am a little hesitant to Lee Ment the mould but may do so anyway. The alingment pins will be checked as suggested.
The last question is how to keep the screws from loosening up? I will still need to take them out to swap handles with other moulds, but how can I make them NOT loosen up? Maybe if I don't have to pound on them so hard they may stay in place?

[Bret4207]

If you don't find any crud in the pin holes or on the pins, if the blocks appear to be lining up well, if everything still works the same after a very thorough cleaning- it might be an appropriate time to consider lapping the mould.

[monadnock#5]

I don't know how to keep the screws from backing out. Loktite 242 won't hold up to casting temps. I keep a small screwdriver next to the pot. I use that as a visual clue to re-tighten once in a while. I know that the next screw I have to fish from the bottom of the quench bucket won't be the first, or the last. Hey, you know what, if no one else comes up with a better idea, a magnet attached to a coat hanger will be the next piece of equipment for my dungeon.!!

[PineTreeGreen]

Check what you are using for handles. I have a set of SMALL Lyman handles that are designed for single cavity moulds and they will not work with late double cavity moulds. Put the moulds on my RCBS handles and the problems go away.
:coffeecom

[Dale53]

Fish4bugs;
Get an old toothbrush and using liquid hand soap scrub the dickens out of your mould including the cavities. Monadnoks advice is correct - do it, also.

I do NOT use anything on my moulds except Bullshop's Sprue Plate lube. I do NO smoking of cavities. You want to keep your mould as clean as possible (except for judicious application as per directions with Sprue Plate lube on the critical areas).

Sometimes raising the melt temperature 50 degrees makes the difference between releasing the bullets easily or hard.

Let us know what happens after you perform the cleaning regimen.

Dale53

[HORNET]

Check for burrs in the holes that the alignment pins go into. Use a case chamfering tool (I use an RCBS/ Wilson) to lightly chamfer the holes. You just want to remove the sharp edge at the opening. Check the pins for burrs and polish them lightly if needed, then try putting the blocks together and see if they fit without any gap. If there is a gap, you can try tapping the pins back into the blocks slightly with a small hammer. Sometimes it takes a heavier hit than you might expect. If the blocks go together alright, try seeing if you can feel or hear any wiggle when you twist the blocks in different directions. If so, you might have to tap the pins the other way with the small hammer and a small pin punch. You want it to where the blocks will just close without any wiggle. Sometimes, if its real close, you can put the blocks together on a backing block and smack them together with the little hammer and it'll set them just right.
If all else fails, send them to me and I'll tune them up and send them right back in 2 or 3 years.[smilie=1:

[FISH4BUGS]

I will print these out and try them one by one and see if it works. I think I will give it a thorough scrubbing, then check for burrs, do the alignment pin thing, and last but not least, lap the mould and see what happens. The handles are proper for the mould by the way.
Now....to find the time. I have to make a living in all this fun you know.....might be a few weeks or until the next New Hampshire snowstorm.
Thanks again to all...........

[monadnock#5]

I caught the dickens some years ago when I was a rookie on vertical cnc milling machines. When I explained to my first shift counterpart my three step solution to a problem I had encountered, instead of a pat on the back he asked "so which solution solved the problem?" "I dunno" was the response. He told me that two steps were a waste of time, and since I would have to go through the whole process again the next time around, I really hadn't accomplished much. :roll:

Since I have a dog in this hunt, I won't tell you which suggestion to try first. I think there might be some value to the Board though, if you took them one step at a time in any order you choose, and then give us a report. Just a thought. :rolleyes:

[FISH4BUGS]

I work with computer software as a consultant (for lawyers no less) and I ALWAYS tell my clients that if you are going to mess with the software, make one change, then get out of the program, then come back into the program and see what the effect of that change was. If you make a bunch of changes, you could really screw it up (or fix it) and you won't know what you did wrong or what fixed it or why.
I intend to do that here. One step at a time....I think in the order stated unless someone can convince me otherwise.......and I will report.