do deer run faster when shot with cast boolits?

[todd9.3x57]

i have been shooting and hunting deer with cast boolits about ten years or so ago. i've seen them DRT(dead right there) and run off about 20-40 yards, stand there and fall over. well, the deer "jog" off, not run off. back in the day[smilie=l: when i used jacketed bullets, it was either DRT or RUN off about 30 -50 yards and then nose dive to the ground. all of the shots, being cast and jacketed, were either behind the shoulder or shoulder shot.

as an example, i shot a doe behind the shoulder at about 40ish yards with a 308 win and 170gr hornady rn going about 2500-2600fps and it ran off about 40+/- yards and the doe nose dived into to the turf. this year, i shot a fork horn behind shoulder at 50 yards with a 35/30-30 and 200gr fn gc(robs, 15bhn+/-) going 1726fps and it jogged off about 10-15 yards, stood there for about 5 seconds (all i could see was the tree and hind end of the buck and 5 seconds drags "turns itself" to 15 minutes[smilie=l:) and then it fell over. i would tell you about 30-40 krag and the 165gr ranch dog(1924fps/12bhn+/-) but the deer were DRT.

with a jacketed bullet, it was easily 3"+ exit wound, while the cast boolit was about 1 1/2" exit wound. and i shot them behind the shoulder(both lungs).

i think(and do i ever!!! not. :redneck:) that the report of the rifle causes the difference between jacketed and cast. when i used jacketed bullets, the rifle it would go "BOOM" and the jacketed bullet would "punch" the deer silly. when i use cast boolits, the rifle would go "boom" and the cast boolit would "slap" or "touch the shoulder" the deer and say "excuse me."

i know i'm probably wrong, but what the heck.


15 bhn was lyman #2 with a little bit tin

12 bhn was coww with a little bit of tin

[M-Tecs]

Normally when shot with jacketed, cast or archery deer will try to flee as fast as they are able. That being said higher velocity jacketed bullets tend to impart more significant amounts of shock particularly hydrostatic shock.

I have only seen a deer "jog" after being hit four or five times and that was with jacketed bullets and never with cast. Based on nothing other than my own opinion I believe when a deer "jogs" off they have been hit hard enough that "jogging" is all they can muster or they are unsure what direction to flee. Think of a boxer that was just about knocked out but didn't down. They tend to lose a significant amount of motor skills. Same for deer. I have killed around 225 with a firearm and around 60 with the bow, however, due to years of party hunting I have observed many more more being shot.

When the deer don't know where the shot came from they may not flee as fast as possible. I have a shot deer out of a group of deer numerous times and the deer that were not shot appear to be unsure where to flee so they did "jog" and stop???? That was relatively common from one of my tree stands. It was in heavy woods with a very large river bank about 200 yards away. Every shot from that location produced a loud echo that seemed to really confuse deer.

[HWooldridge]

I have shot a lot of Texas deer (i.e., small bodied compared to Midwest) - primarily with 3 calibers: 30-30 (warm handload with jacketed 150 gr SP), 45-70 (handload with cast 455 gr solid) and 7mm-08 (139 gr factory Hornady SP).

The 7mm always knocks 'em down and nothing has ever gone more than 3-4 steps - it's the fastest killer I have ever seen on whitetail. The 30-30 kills pretty quickly but I have seen one or two run 20-40 yds. The 45-70 does better on quartering or endwise shots unless I hit a bone; I would say it's about equal to the 30-30. As always, it's about bullet placement.

My son shot a nice buck with a K31 in 7.5x55 Swiss using a 174 jacketed SP but it was a poor hit - the deer laid down but my son jumped in the truck and took off without letting the animal lay there and bleed out, so the buck ran off. I tracked him for a couple hundred yards then lost the trail - we found him about half a mile away two days later when the buzzards started circling. A bad shot is a bad shot...

[Winger Ed.]

My few experiences have been the opposite.

I can see a high speed jacketed bullet that didn't expand doing that if there is no bone shattering happening.
It sort of goes in and out so fast, without much trauma and shock it takes a little time before the deer realizes its dead.

I've known a couple guys who'd been shot with FMJs-- but didn't receive mortal wounds.
They said they felt a twitch sort of something, and it burned, but didn't instantly realize they'd been shot
until blood ran down into their clothes and they looked at their self because they felt wet.

A cast boolit going somewhat slower, and usually having a more blunt face (RN/FP) probably causes more shock and trauma.
I figure the deer dies before it can shake off the shock, gather its wits, and get back up.

[M-Tecs]

A cast boolit going somewhat slower, and usually having a more blunt face (RN/FP) probably causes more shock and trauma.


Since the early 70's I've been processing all my own deer and all of my dads deer until he stopped hunting about ten years ago. I have only killed a couple of deer with 30 cailber cast but I have killed a bunch with 44 and 45 caliber cast both in rifles and handguns. While very effective I didn't remember any DRT's. After the bullet impact all have been a wide open flee with a pile up under 75 yards. Normally 40 to 60 yards.

The one thing that I really like about using cast is you can eat right up to the bullet hole. Some of the high velocity jacketed rounds I have used I have lost most of a front quarter due to the effect of hydrostatic shock that produces very bloodshot meat far from the wound channel. Wound channel damage is how I judge energy transfer.

[Winger Ed.]

I've been processing all my own deer l

Me too. I've never had one 'processed'. I even made rawhide chew toys for the dogs out of their shirt.
As I got older, on hunting trips, more and more,, when a deer hit the ground,,,,,, the fun was kind of over.

[M-Tecs]

Me too. I've never had one 'processed'. I even made rawhide chew toys for the dogs out of their shirt.
As I got older, on hunting trips, more and more,, when a deer hit the ground,,,,,, the fun was kind of over.

Never done that but I do save most of the bones and ribs. I boil them in a large pot until most the meat falls off. That is save for door food. The bones get baked in the oven and used for chew bones.

[Winger Ed.]

Never done that but I do save most of the bones and ribs. I boil them in a large pot until most the meat falls off.

I did that too when we lived in a Dallas suburb.
We lived next door to a city park, but our yard had a 6' chain link fence around it.

One time:
Apparently some parents complained when they saw our German Shepard dragging a spinal column with the ribs still on it around the yard.
A Policeman came by to make sure it wasn't human, and asked me not to do that any more.

[dverna]

I did that too when we lived in a Dallas suburb.
We lived next door to a city park, but our yard had a 6' chain link fence around it.

One time:
Apparently some parents complained when they saw our German Shepard dragging a spinal column with the ribs still on it around the yard.
A Policeman came by to make sure it wasn't human, and asked me not to do that any more.

Now that was funny

[versa-06]

Very Funny! City people can be kind of ignorant to some things, Like killing Bambi, But will kill 2 dozen shrimp for one meal.

[scattershot]

Depends a lot on the caliber. There’s a reason most of the old black powder cartridges with lead bullets were big bores. I have shot deer with a .54 caliber muzzleloader and seen them drop in their tracks.

[waksupi]

I've had deer and elk just stand until they die with cast. The ones that move, make it around 25 yards at most. I suspect why they tend to stand when shot by cast, is the report of the firearms tends to be not so sharp. Another factor, is movement. If you shoot, and don't move, they don't know where you are, and are not spooked.

[savagetactical]

The answer is it all depends. I have had both experiences and a mix of in between . The only sure instant DRT kills have been CNS hits in my experience , I have shot deer who died immediately with 30 cal cast , and watched them run also . Same experience with 45/70 and 8mm . I have never had immediate DRT kills every time though , even with the vaunted 375 you will get some things that run and for North America it imparts as much energy as you will ever need for anything you happen to be hunting. I have had some spectacular one shot kills with it as well, especially on white tail with the legendary or infamous Speer 235 grain SP/FB bullet driven to 3000 fps it will hammer a Whitetail or Mule deer . Same goes for a 264 grain cast bullet driven much slower .

[Jedman]

All I know is that no bullet or boolit from any normal caliber rifle, shotgun or pistol has any knockdown power.
You would think a 900 + gr. 10 ga. Lead slug would knock a deer off its feet but NO it doesn’t. I have shot a 90 lb.antelope doe with a 416 Rigby and what does it do ? Runs off looking untouched for 70 yards then does a complete cartwheel end over end and is stone dead ? You just never know, really I thought I have seen it all but again NO, deer and other large animals don’t read the script.. I have seen even really small yearling deer take many hits from 12 ga. slugs and not fall over. BUT shot placement is everything and penetration and bullet performance is also needed.

Jedman

[gumbo333]

Not sure about this one! Some deer are DRT. Some are not. I my limited 50 years of hunting deer I don’t think the size of the caliber or how hard/ where you hit the deer can give any indication of DRT or running some distance. I have never timed their speed, seems like all that ran, ran fast, maybe 10 to 150 yards, even running on 3 legs. Not sure whether j bullets or cast made any difference on speed. Others must be way better at judging speed than me. But I’ve been wearing glasses my whole life till this November.

[Chihuahua Floyd]

From my experience and what I have tead, there are no rules on what a shot deer will do. Caliber don't matter, bullet placement matters but is not the end all say all. Jacketed vs cast no matter.
Deer are individuals and react as such.

[Jedman]

https://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/killing-the-energy-killing-myth

Jedman

[brass410]

I've never noticed that they ran faster, but I have noticed they didnt run very long after being shot with my cast 45-70 pure lead rounds. I think the boolits were to heavy for them to carry and they tired quickly.LOL

[elmacgyver0]

Deer die faster when they know you have spent more money on the bullets.

[todd9.3x57]

Deer die faster when they know you have spent more money on the bullets.



oh crap!!!!!! i only spend a dime or two (i don't know what the cost is).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZV3kGRY1j0