Problems, NOE Brass 360-182-WFN

[Shadow9mm]

So I bought my first NOE mold. It was supposed to be a 5 cavity aluminum. After a month I called because I had not received it. I have him a call and he said my order had been mis-placed and he did not have that mold in stock. He offered to set up and run me one, but said it would be a while because he was having trouble getting stock for the molds. He offered a 4 cavity brass, which I accepted, and it shipped the next day.

So I did my first batch of casting today. It was a bit cold out at about 36F. I put the mold on top of my lee pro furnace and let everything warm up for about 30min with the furnace on HI. I tried to cast and got horribly wrinkled bullets. I put the bad bullets back in the furnace and put the mold back on top and let it warm up for another 15min. the second round they looked better but the lube grooves were not filling in. I let it sit for a bit more and got about 2 good casts until the mold cooled off too much and things went back out the window.

Am I going to need to use a hot plate or something to heat the mold? Not sure what else to do...

Other problems.... brass is HEAVY. my hands were killing me after casing maybe 40-60 bullets. I will NEVER order brass again unless its in a 2 cavity mold. 4 is WAY too heavy.

The sprue plate burned me. It kept swinging around too far and hitting my hand.

This is a gas check design. I was planning on using these heavies in my 357mag. I was planning on powder coating, however the 2 gas checks I have are both a VERY snug fit. Not sure how I am going to get them on once powder coated I did order some clear powder by the pound powder, as I have heard it goes on thinner than the eastwood... but still.

I also cast some with my lee molds, 124g round nose for 9mm, and 158g WFN for my 38spl. Both those molds threw flawlessly as usual.

295572

295573

[Elmer Fudd]

I run my brass mould hot. Note I say mould, singular. I don't find a gain over aluminum, even in the RG or hollow point style from NOE. I also have a bunch of LBT moulds, all aluminum (all Veral makes is Al). Running hot makes the product good. Not hot enough yields lots of wrinkles and rounded driving bands, etc. I pre-heat on a hot plate and I cast in a large shop.

Tighten your sprue plate after you lube it to prevent it swinging too far.

If you have to cast in the cold, make sure the air is not moving a lot, whether you're outside or downwind of a fan, etc.

NOE has missed a couple of my orders by some computer glitch or even human error, but Al has always made it up to me. I couldn't be happier with their products and service.

NOE makes a gas check expander. It makes the checks go on easier. It's another step, whether or not you can handle that is up to you.

[Shadow9mm]

Only place I have to cast is outside. But there was almost no wind today. I will be trying a hot plate next session. I will lube and tighten my sprue plate. The mold it beautiful, and he got the problem fixed. As I am running a progressive press the expander tool would be challenging at best to use.

[gwpercle]

Brass moulds need to be run hot and need to be broken in with about 3 casting sessions .

The 36 degree weather is sucking the heat out of the brass ... it's way too hard to cast well with brass in that cold weather . Don't give up on it just yet.

I was surprised by how heavy NOE moulds are , 4 cavity aluminum would weigh twice as much as 2 cavity Lee ...BOY , was I wrong ... that sucker is much heavier ...but nice .
I don't want to think about the weight of the 4 cavity brass mould . I started experimenting with different ways to hold the mould , resting it on things while filling and doing anything I could to lessen the exertion on hands and wrist ...I'm 72 now and it's showing ... every NOE mould I have ordered since that first 4 cavity.... has been 3 cavity moulds ...just a little lighter and I like 3 cavity moulds .
Don't give up on the mould , just try to come up with ways to cast that take some of the weight off you ... I rest the mould on the pot top and fill it with a ladle , also I fill while holding the mould in my left hand (ladle in right) but open mould while holding it in my right hand with mallet in left .
By swapping which hand holds the mould between filling and opening ...each hand takes a turn holding the mould and sorta distributes the load between them .
Get creative with your casting technique , come up with ways so your one hand isn't holding the mould all the time ! A brass NOE is too nice to give up on .
Gary

[Shadow9mm]

Not giving up, just a ROUGH first start..... I did cycle the mold in the oven 2 times at 400F to try an help ease in the break in process before casting today. Bullets dropped out easily, just could not get good clean bullet fill in. Thing is my cheap lee molds threw beautiful today.

[JWFilips]

[QUOTE=Elmer Fudd;5346910]I run my brass mould hot. \

Yes Hot!

[Alan in Vermont]

For many years I thought I would like a 10 -hole H & G mold, then I lucked into one here, a 38 wadcutter. I'm also 72and have a bad shoulder along with some nerve damage in the left arm. I cast with the mold in the left hand.

I can't manipulate that big hunk of iron smoothly enough to get the mold up to temperature. And the shoulder aches for hours after an attempt at casting with it.

Watch for a 10-hole H&G to show up for sale here at some point.

[harm]

A hot plate should help. I've done a bit of casting in a Sub-Zero garage, and it can be pretty frustrating. I didn't see you mention degreasing the mold. Very important step, I assume you cleaned the cutting/machining oils out, but it's worth doing again. Hottest water you can stand and a good scrub with dawn soap.

I've had a few sessions foiled by getting too anxious and not scrubbing/heat cycling enough. The brass will need to be clean, then get an oxidation layer, and should rain casts after that. If you do decide to move that mold along, I guarantee it sells quick in good shape.

[imashooter2]

I’ve found annealing checks helps them snap on easier. Worth a shot.

[danmat]

A hot plate should help. I've done a bit of casting in a Sub-Zero garage, and it can be pretty frustrating. I didn't see you mention degreasing the mold. Very important step, I assume you cleaned the cutting/machining oils out, but it's worth doing again. Hottest water you can stand and a good scrub with dawn soap.

I've had a few sessions foiled by getting too anxious and not scrubbing/heat cycling enough. The brass will need to be clean, then get an oxidation layer, and should rain casts after that. If you do decide to move that mold along, I guarantee it sells quick in good shape.

This, my first two noe brass molds I cleaned and heat cycled, one cast good quick the other one not so much. I cranked up the heat too much too quick result was good bullets quicker but lead tinning on the mold, still haven’t got it perfectly clean hard to get off.
I clean with a good solvent and bristle brush, brake clean, carb Cleaner denatured alcohol.
Cast a little hotter than normal 2-3 times, don’t rush it. It will come around.
My experiences

[sukivel]

[QUOTE=Elmer Fudd;5346910]I run my brass mould hot. \

Yes Hot!

Yes hot is right!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Pro Tip:
A hot mold will cast a smaller boolit. Then your GC will fit better.

Once you figure out how to keep your Brass mold hotter (hotter alloy and faster casting pace), you'll likely solve a couple problems. Once your boolits drop a dull grey and lightly frosty looking, instead of shiney, then you know you are there.

[gwpercle]

Not giving up, just a ROUGH first start..... I did cycle the mold in the oven 2 times at 400F to try an help ease in the break in process before casting today. Bullets dropped out easily, just could not get good clean bullet fill in. Thing is my cheap lee molds threw beautiful today.

How young are you ? Age plays a big part in it !
And for all the bad press that Lee Moulds get ... I believe their two cavity moulds with handles that sell for $30.00 nowdays is one of the best bargains for a beginner ... I sure have a bunch of them and could always get decent boolits .
I will admit that the NOE are the Lexus , they look good and cast great .
Keep on keeping on ... that beautiful brass mould will come around .

Don't forget ... You got to "Hold Your Mouth Right" when casting :drinks:
Gary

[Beagle333]

A hot plate or mold oven (mine is a hot plate with a coffee can over it) helps a lot. Also, flood the cavity as fast as you can. Don't let the lead swirl or dribble down through the plate, fill it fast and move along. Cast fast until they start dropping nicely and then you can slow down and admire or cull as needed. But go fast at first to get the mold hot.
Good luck!

[rockrat]

I had to turn up the temp on my pot when casting with a brass mould and pre-heat it on a hot plate. After about 10 casts it started coming around. My casting area is about 58 degrees though

[JAC43]

I have a similar issue with a 4 cav brass 380 mold from NOE. The ratio of mold to bullet cavity is huge and if I didn’t preheat on a hot plate it took a really long time to drop non wrinkled bullets. I don’t go crazy on the heat for the mold though.

[rockrat]

If you are going to powder coat, you might not need the gas check design. Look at the Arsenal 190gr rnfp. A tumble lube design plain base. They have a 5 cav. in stock, in aluminum. I agree, those 4 cav. brass are HEAVY. Can't cast too long with mine before my wrist calls time out.

[HWooldridge]

I've always used a propane torch to heat molds - one of the quick-lite models with a trigger. Usually get unwrinkled bullets on the first or second pour.

[Shadow9mm]

If you are going to powder coat, you might not need the gas check design. Look at the Arsenal 190gr rnfp. A tumble lube design plain base. They have a 5 cav. in stock, in aluminum. I agree, those 4 cav. brass are HEAVY. Can't cast too long with mine before my wrist calls time out.

I considered going with a non gas check design, however I figured they will still load and shoot without a gas check if I decide I don't need it.

So far my wrist has been fine, its been my hand cramping up....

[megasupermagnum]

I don't like brass molds either. They are very particular about heat, and hard to control. They are a bear to heat up, and once there, they are a bear to cool down. The best thing you can do is get it hot to begin with. Brass molds actually like to run cooler, but it's harder to get them to that temperature. Get it on a hot plate for a while. Cast as fast as you can. When you get to where they are casting ok, throttle way back. Turn the pot temp down, slow way down. That brass holds heat like crazy, and if you get it too hot, all you can do is set it down for a while.

As for the gas check shanks, a snug fit is great. Chances are things will change slightly when you get good castings too. This is just one of the things you have to be mindful of if you coat. In this case you have a couple options. The first is you could put the checks on before coating. The other is to use a gas check expander.

[Shadow9mm]

So, my hand is getting stronger, but its still a heavy mold. my lead thermometer came in today and I grabbed my infared thermometer.

Lead has been WAY hot. Accoring to my new thermometer I have probably been casting around 900-1000 degrees... sheesh. I got it regulated down into the 750 range. I left the mold on top of the furnace to heat. it was only getting to around 215F, way too cold. took it inside and put it on a electric stove burner, got it up to about 375F. First 2 castings had a few problems but nothing crazy. After that I got mostly good clean bullets! Brass likes to be run HOT...

[bangerjim]

I LOVE 5-6 cavity brass molds. That is all I will ever buy from now on. I have over 8 of them currently. (45+ LEE aluminums I rarely ever use anymore.)

Brass runs HOT.....HOT.....HOT! Just "warming' them on your pot is definitely NOT enough! Use a good electric hotplate and heat it to just under casting temp. And use that same plate to preheat all your feed ingots to about 10°F under liquidous temp of your alloy to speed up pot recovery time.

As far as aches & pains from using your arm mussels.............just work out more. I have no problem casting for 1-2 hours with 5 & 6 cav brass molds.

Good luck!

And remember................IR thermometers do NOT work on shiny surfaces like molten Pb. Only dull dark/black surfaces give true readings. Float a 1" black oxidize washer on the surface and shoot that.

banger

[Shadow9mm]

IR thermometers do kind of work. Polished lead (molten) has an emissivity rate of around .35. If you multiply the temperature on the infared thermometer by 1.65 it should get you pretty close to the actual temperature of the lead. but thankfully I now have a RCBS analog lead thermometer. and I was using the infared to measure the temp of the black steel sprue plate.

the washer is a GREAT idea, I will be trying that.

[Mal Paso]

Casting builds the muscle tone that helps you shoot better.

[slim1836]

[QUOTE=Mal Paso;5350848]Casting builds the muscle tone that helps you shoot better.[/QUOTE

That's what 12 ounce curls are for. Some prefer 16 ounce, but I'm too old and they get warm on me.

Slim

[shooter bob]

Slim you just gotta drink faster!

[farmbif]

getting burned by a sprue plate?

this is from a free book hopefully you will read from here.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

A few words about safety...
OK, let’s get one thing straight right from the beginning: casting bullets from molten lead can be dangerous. So can handloading ammunition, shooting a gun, driving a car, or operating power tools. However, if one thinks about the hazards associated with each of these practices, recognizes what and where they are, applies a little common sense, follows established safe practices and takes appropriate preventative precautions, the risks can be mitigated to the point that bullet casting is pretty much as safe as collecting butterflies. If you choose to cut corners, ignore safety rules, be lackadaisical or just flat don’t think about what you‘re doing, you will get burned, and you may well poison yourself and those around you. Just like handloading, bullet casting is as safe or as dangerous as you make it.
Bullet casting inherently involves hot metal, both the molten alloy that we fashion bullets from and the hot moulds and lead pots. Leather gloves are a good idea (and remember, a hot mould looks just like a cold mould, this is why we put wooden handles on them!). Even very small splashes of molten lead can cause nasty burns and leather does wonders for preventing them. And lead pots do splash -- when adding metal, stirring in flux, or if (heaven forbid!) they encounter any moisture. Keep all sources of moisture well away from your lead pot! A single drop of water can empty a 10 pound lead pot explosively, coating everything in the immediate vicinity with molten lead. If your lead pot is out on an open work bench, even minor splashes mean that safety glasses are a must. I cast with my lead pot wholly enclosed in a laboratory grade fume hood, with a glass sash in place between my face and the lead pot. I leave the little lead splatters in place on the glass sash as a reminder to myself as to how easily these things happen, and for instructional purposes for any new casters that I may be teaching.
Good ventilation is very important to the bullet caster. My fume hood also serves to provide suitable ventilation, not only for the smoke coming off the pot but also for the heavy metal fumes emanating from the pot. Lead fumes are an obvious concern, but more subtle is the fact that wheel-weight alloy also contains small amounts of arsenic. Arsenic is kind of a quirk in the periodic table in that it forms an oxide that is more volatile than the metal, and in fact at lead pot temperatures, some forms of arsenic oxide are fully gaseous, so if the arsenic gets oxidized all of it evaporates from the lead pot and is easily inhaled. Use of a reducing cover material helps to prevent this oxidation (see chapter on fluxing).

[Springfield]

Ove' Gloves work great. Especially the real ones with the silicone grip enhancers. Sometimes Walgreen's and CVS carry them.

[HWooldridge]

I wear safety glasses and have very good ventilation in my casting area but I don't wear gloves. I have several "hot" hobbies - along with the scars to prove it but about the only time I wear gloves is when I'm welding or doing foundry work with bronze or aluminum.

[Shadow9mm]

getting burned by a sprue plate?

this is from a free book hopefully you will read from here.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

A few words about safety...
OK, let’s get one thing straight right from the beginning: casting bullets from molten lead can be dangerous. So can handloading ammunition, shooting a gun, driving a car, or operating power tools. However, if one thinks about the hazards associated with each of these practices, recognizes what and where they are, applies a little common sense, follows established safe practices and takes appropriate preventative precautions, the risks can be mitigated to the point that bullet casting is pretty much as safe as collecting butterflies. If you choose to cut corners, ignore safety rules, be lackadaisical or just flat don’t think about what you‘re doing, you will get burned, and you may well poison yourself and those around you. Just like handloading, bullet casting is as safe or as dangerous as you make it.
Bullet casting inherently involves hot metal, both the molten alloy that we fashion bullets from and the hot moulds and lead pots. Leather gloves are a good idea (and remember, a hot mould looks just like a cold mould, this is why we put wooden handles on them!). Even very small splashes of molten lead can cause nasty burns and leather does wonders for preventing them. And lead pots do splash -- when adding metal, stirring in flux, or if (heaven forbid!) they encounter any moisture. Keep all sources of moisture well away from your lead pot! A single drop of water can empty a 10 pound lead pot explosively, coating everything in the immediate vicinity with molten lead. If your lead pot is out on an open work bench, even minor splashes mean that safety glasses are a must. I cast with my lead pot wholly enclosed in a laboratory grade fume hood, with a glass sash in place between my face and the lead pot. I leave the little lead splatters in place on the glass sash as a reminder to myself as to how easily these things happen, and for instructional purposes for any new casters that I may be teaching.
Good ventilation is very important to the bullet caster. My fume hood also serves to provide suitable ventilation, not only for the smoke coming off the pot but also for the heavy metal fumes emanating from the pot. Lead fumes are an obvious concern, but more subtle is the fact that wheel-weight alloy also contains small amounts of arsenic. Arsenic is kind of a quirk in the periodic table in that it forms an oxide that is more volatile than the metal, and in fact at lead pot temperatures, some forms of arsenic oxide are fully gaseous, so if the arsenic gets oxidized all of it evaporates from the lead pot and is easily inhaled. Use of a reducing cover material helps to prevent this oxidation (see chapter on fluxing).

Thank you. Always good things to keep in mind. I cast outdoors only and set myself up up wind of the pot. The burns were minor and more of a nuisance than anything. Up to this point I had only used lee 2 cavity molds nothing with a sprue plate long enough to come around and get me. I adjusted the plate and my technique to prevent the issue in the future. So far no wheel weight, but I will keep that in mind if I ever find any. So far it has been recycled bullets for me. I actually have a lid coming for my lee pot I may fashion a splash guard onto my pot just to be safe. I never drop anything in, I use pliers or a spoon to place it in. Im clear on the water issue, im careful. Thank you.

[gwpercle]

[QUOTE=Mal Paso;5350848]Casting builds the muscle tone that helps you shoot better.[/QUOTE

That's what 12 ounce curls are for. Some prefer 16 ounce, but I'm too old and they get warm on me.

Slim

Slim... just slip one of them new fangled Beer Koozies on it ...that will extends your drinking time at least 4 ounces . It's like a little insulated jacket for your beer can ... I been using them for several years now ! I can't drink like I used to.
Gary