Cast .223 for coon hunting

[Wolfdog91]

So wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the hunting forum but it's kinda technical so figured here would work. Anywho was curious has anyone tried doing a lower (mid mabye ?) Velocity .223 cast round for taking trees coon? My buddy who's a coon hunter was talking about how he's been having problems with CCi stingers not killing coon. Sent me a pic of one he found while skinning. Thing mushroomed and barley cracked the skull and just sat under the skin. Can post if someone wants to see.Any how was thinking mabye a lighter cast bullet out a .223 might be something to look at.i know NOE makes down to a 36 grainer I think. Or go the 300blk to route and have a heavier slower bullet , mabye the lee 55gr ? I thinking like 1500fps would really smack a coon but still be slow enough to not be worse then say a. 22 hornet as far as over travel.Was thinking of it being along the same lines of a 30-30 trapper round type of deal . Ideally this would be a bolt action thing or my break barrel or heck he has a varmit .223 AR with like a 24" barrel and 1-12 twist I think. If anything possibly that could be used as just straight pull type of thing. Should work much better then my AR in all of its 16" 1/7 twist glory lol !Anyone ever try something like this ? I'm more curious about it more then anything. Gotta check the law book on coon hunting though. Also what about an alloy ? Would harder be better ? Because we are head shooting more then anything so really just trying to get though the skull shouldn't need to hard right ? Honestly think something like 16bhn would be more then enough but don't really want to have a complete fmj effect. But I'm thinking if I go too soft it's gonna be a crazy mushroom effect. I mean southern fur ain't worth jack but really don't wanna canoe ever coon we shoot. But again just curious. And yeah I may be a HINT obsessed with cast .223 lol , need to start messing with my hornet or mosin soon to break me out of it but hay it's a fun cartridge! :smile:

[M-Tecs]

If you buddy is hunting at night in MS it's not legal to use a .223

https://www.mdwfp.com/law-enforcement/hunting-rules-regs/

Weapons & Loads

Legal weapons for hunting from one-half (1/2) hour after sunset to one-half (1/2) hour before sunrise are restricted to handguns or rifles using no larger than .22 standard rim-fire cartridges (no 22 magnums) and shotguns with shot no larger than No. 6.

[Wolfdog91]

Well dang .....but I'm still curious about it though !

[M-Tecs]

Well dang .....but I'm still curious about it though !

Since you are still curious and per another thread stated you want to learn you should be asking yourself a couple of questions.

1. Why is your buddy having problems killing coon with a 22LR when so many others don't have issues? What might he be doing differently? You already stated the first clue.

"My buddy who's a coon hunter was talking about how he's been having problems with CCi stingers not killing coon. Sent me a pic of one he found while skinning. Thing mushroomed and barley cracked the skull and just sat under the skin."

2. Your second question should be what is a CCI Stringer?

It's a hyper velocity ammunition from CCI firing a 32 grain Hollow Point at 1640 fps specifically designed for rapid expansion. Should there be any surprise Stingers are performing as they were designed to perform?

What kills a head shot coon?

A bullet thru the brain is what turns the light out. That indicates penetration is more important than expansion for this application.

4. What would give better penetration than a hyper velocity 32 grain HP in a 22LR?

Lets see Standard velocity or Standard HV solids with 40 grain bullets have been effectively killing slaughter cattle by the millions since 1887 in 22 Long or 22 LR. Cattle have a thicker skull plate than coons.

I have limited experience shooting treed coons. I've only been along on a 1/2 dozen hunts and maybe killed a 1 1/2 dozen coon. All with 40 grain solids. First time I went was with a friend of my dads that was a semi-professional coon hunter. He hired out to framer/ranchers that had coon problems. The first night we killed 29 total. I do know he killed over 2,000 in one season. He only used solids and that what he told he would allow me to use. I did kill 9 more with 22LR with solids after we built the house in 2004. They were rolling up the sod for lawn grubs. All shots were out the house windows. They would be busy rolling up the sod. When I whistled, they would look at me catch a 22LR round between the eyes.

My guess is that the standard high velocity 38 grain HP would work just fine also. They tend to penetrate way better than the hyper velocity 32 grain HP's.

[Outer Rondacker]

M-Tecs brings up some good points. I have been told I am always willing to chip in my two cents so here it is.

For light loads you can search "mouse farts" or "cat sneeze loads."

Ok now for the issue at hand. 22LR not killing the coons. As another stated heavier bullets will work better for this. Here are a few other factors that will help that better bullet shine as best as it can. One use a bolt action. Two use a rifle not a pistol. Three and we can all agree on this one, shot placement. Distance to target helps. I personally use a ruger 22/45 with federal match as it likes it best. If I take a rifle I use CCI Blazer ammo from old school bulk packs. 40g 1280 fps.

I am sharing this with you to give you some other ideas not a hard time. When I had a chronograph, we tested a friends MP22 rifle. The 22 version of an AR-15. It had function issues, no wonder at just over 700 fps it would not function. He was shooting hypervelocity ammo and it was basically coming out of battery before the round left the barrel. Cleaned it up, changed some springs and switched him to Federal 325 bulk packs and now runs fine. Just wish he would have not shot my chrony. No good deed goes unpunished.

[smkummer]

I have had success on woodchucks (about the same size as coons) with Lyman’s 224415 50 grain gas check going out at 2200 fps. This is actually slower than 22 hornet. I am in a rural subdivision and am responsible for my bullet. I alternate using a 22 mag. bolt action or the downloaded 223. The reason I didn’t use 22LR is I felt without the perfect shot, the woodchuck would waddle down its hole and stink. I had only one do that being shot with the 223 lead bullet once ( I just covered the holes and no stink!). All the rest ( maybe 6 total) have expired right on the spot. Both calibers completely penetrate. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=287616&d=1629333383

[Grayone]

M-Tecs brings up some good points. I have been told I am always willing to chip in my two cents so here it is.

For light loads you can search "mouse farts" or "cat sneeze loads."

Ok now for the issue at hand. 22LR not killing the coons. As another stated heavier bullets will work better for this. Here are a few other factors that will help that better bullet shine as best as it can. One use a bolt action. Two use a rifle not a pistol. Three and we can all agree on this one, shot placement. Distance to target helps. I personally use a ruger 22/45 with federal match as it likes it best. If I take a rifle I use CCI Blazer ammo from old school bulk packs. 40g 1280 fps.

I am sharing this with you to give you some other ideas not a hard time. When I had a chronograph, we tested a friends MP22 rifle. The 22 version of an AR-15. It had function issues, no wonder at just over 700 fps it would not function. He was shooting hypervelocity ammo and it was basically coming out of battery before the round left the barrel. Cleaned it up, changed some springs and switched him to Federal 325 bulk packs and now runs fine. Just wish he would have not shot my chrony. No good deed goes unpunished.

A good friend would have bought you another... just sayin...

[cwtebay]

M-tech has very valid points.
I have never been a huge Stinger fan - mostly because the velocity changes my point of aim enough to be a problem but performance has not been stellar in my hands either.
I have a nephew in Nebraska who makes a good chunk of income from furs and coons are worth both fur and landowner bounty. He uses only hollow point bullets for all of his coons. The hollow point is for safety concerns with pass through shots. He claims that the sub sonic aquilla with a homemade hollow point is his favourite due to bullet mass.
His least favourite is a Stinger, for the aforementioned reasons.

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[jreidthompson1]

Per the above comments. He needs to use the proper ammo

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[toallmy]

I don't really have much trouble with coons around here , but when I do I generally give them a 1-1/4 ounce charge with a 12 gage . Then I get the shovel out , giving it a good and proper planting .
But I think playing around with low power 223 cast loading is fun out of a bolt action . Larry's suggestion of a few grains of fast powders under a cast boolit out of a 223 kept me entertained for a while .
Give it a shot ......

[Jack Stanley]

When I was protecting a sweet corn patch from the bandits I found the CCI Velicitors in the head worked pretty well .

But to your .223 question my "gallery" load for .223 is a Lyman 225462 with one lube groove filled and no gas check . WSR primer and 4.2 grains of 700X if I remember right it chonographed at just over fifteen hundred . The RCBS 55 grain bullet treated the same was was also in that ballpark . And yes a gas check did improve accuracy .

Jack

[Wolfdog91]

Since you are still curious and per another thread stated you want to learn you should be asking yourself a couple of questions.

1. Why is your buddy having problems killing coon with a 22LR when so many others don't have issues? What might he be doing differently? You already stated the first clue.

"My buddy who's a coon hunter was talking about how he's been having problems with CCi stingers not killing coon. Sent me a pic of one he found while skinning. Thing mushroomed and barley cracked the skull and just sat under the skin."

2. Your second question should be what is a CCI Stringer?

It's a hyper velocity ammunition from CCI firing a 32 grain Hollow Point at 1640 fps specifically designed for rapid expansion. Should there be any surprise Stingers are performing as they were designed to perform?

What kills a head shot coon?

A bullet thru the brain is what turns the light out. That indicates penetration is more important than expansion for this application.

4. What would give better penetration than a hyper velocity 32 grain HP in a 22LR?

Lets see Standard velocity or Standard HV solids with 40 grain bullets have been effectively killing slaughter cattle by the millions since 1887 in 22 Long or 22 LR. Cattle have a thicker skull plate than coons.

I have limited experience shooting treed coons. I've only been along on a 1/2 dozen hunts and maybe killed a 1 1/2 dozen coon. All with 40 grain solids. First time I went was with a friend of my dads that was a semi-professional coon hunter. He hired out to framer/ranchers that had coon problems. The first night we killed 29 total. I do know he killed over 2,000 in one season. He only used solids and that what he told he would allow me to use. I did kill 9 more with 22LR with solids after we built the house in 2004. They were rolling up the sod for lawn grubs. All shots were out the house windows. They would be busy rolling up the sod. When I whistled, they would look at me catch a 22LR round between the eyes.

My guess is that the standard high velocity 38 grain HP would work just fine also. They tend to penetrate way better than the hyper velocity 32 grain HP's.

Thank you for the write up

[Land Owner]

Due in part to deer hunting season (just past), I suspended working up cast-boolit loads in a 223, single shot, 1:9 twist, NEF Handi-rifle, bull barrel for a Lee 225-55 RF "Bator", BC=0.??? [still searching - anyone?], and an RCBS 22-55-SP, BC=0.159. Powders include IMR 700X, IMR 4227, and Unique.

I've poured these 2-cav. boolit molds 1000's of times, air cooled some, water quenched others, weighed boolits individually, sorted into tins (its a retired "time on my hands" thing), gas checked some, lube & sized some, powder coated others (with and without gc's), shot some of all types (to 50 yds. mostly), and set aside the rest (by the 1000's) for reloading later.

Out to 50 yards, the 50.4 grain (+/-) Bator, from 49-49-2 percent Pb/WW/Sn alloy, should be a slam dunk for head shooting coons - provided it is "fast enough" to preclude key holing, though I would think a key holing boolit to the head of a varmint would be "fine" too.

Bators are fun to shoot into paper. I am not much of a varmint shooter as there are, but few, varmints here though, throughout the years, there have been a LOT of 100+ pound hogs. Plus, I eat what I shoot, so there is that, well, not the paper...

[RickinTN]

Have your friend go to a standard velocity CCI solid point or similar and his troubles should go away. A good shot to the head and dead coon!
Rick

[JoeJames]

I coon hunted with my uncle back in the 60's in the summer time to guard his garden truck patch in the foothills of the Ozarks. I learned that if a coon is not all riled up, one round of a 22LR Win Super X solid would drop him. But one night my uncle came by for me and more 22 shells. Turned out to be an old sow coon at the top of a gum tree. She was madder than hell. Must of shot her 20 or 30 times before she rolled out and then the fight was on. Good training for his half beagle half black and tan that night; old Bobo hated coons from then on.

[M-Tecs]

Each State makes that determination. You have to check the regs for the State in question.

[Mk42gunner]

It has been close to forty years since I regularly hunted or trapped coons. What worked best for us killing treed coons was either the CCI Stinger or the CCI high velocity .22 Short hollow point. Either one of those rounds usually made it into the skull but wouldn't exit. Result one dead coon falling from the tree.

For trapped coons, I always liked a .22 Short.

What didn't work very well was the cheap Federal Lightning or the cheap Remington brand .22 LR. We found several of those just under the skin at the entrance wound.

Of course when coon hides were bring up to thirty dollars and a .22 shell was maybe two cents; we just shot them again, if necessary.

Robert

[Wolfdog91]

..... Sooo um .....yeaaaahh back to how we'd possibly go about this if it was a legal thing

[Wolfdog91]

Due in part to deer hunting season (just past), I suspended working up cast-boolit loads in a 223, single shot, 1:9 twist, NEF Handi-rifle, bull barrel for a Lee 225-55 RF "Bator", BC=0.??? [still searching - anyone?], and an RCBS 22-55-SP, BC=0.159. Powders include IMR 700X, IMR 4227, and Unique.

I've poured these 2-cav. boolit molds 1000's of times, air cooled some, water quenched others, weighed boolits individually, sorted into tins (its a retired "time on my hands" thing), gas checked some, lube & sized some, powder coated others (with and without gc's), shot some of all types (to 50 yds. mostly), and set aside the rest (by the 1000's) for reloading later.

Out to 50 yards, the 50.4 grain (+/-) Bator, from 49-49-2 percent Pb/WW/Sn alloy, should be a slam dunk for head shooting coons - provided it is "fast enough" to preclude key holing, though I would think a key holing boolit to the head of a varmint would be "fine" too.

Bators are fun to shoot into paper. I am not much of a varmint shooter as there are, but few, varmints here though, throughout the years, there have been a LOT of 100+ pound hogs. Plus, I eat what I shoot, so there is that, well, not the paper...

What would you finger that alloy would be if I was making it out of pure ingredients?

[Texas by God]

I coon hunted with my uncle back in the 60's in the summer time to guard his garden truck patch in the foothills of the Ozarks. I learned that if a coon is not all riled up, one round of a 22LR Win Super X solid would drop him. But one night my uncle came by for me and more 22 shells. Turned out to be an old sow coon at the top of a gum tree. She was madder than hell. Must of shot her 20 or 30 times before she rolled out and then the fight was on. Good training for his half beagle half black and tan that night; old Bobo hated coons from then on.Been there done that, Joe James! Since I don't skin or eat them anymore- I just shotgun them out of the tree. They sure love that corn- that I didn't buy for them and their pig cousins to eat....

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[dverna]

Been there done that, Joe James! Since I don't skin or eat them anymore- I just shotgun them out of the tree. They sure love that corn- that I didn't buy for them and their pig cousins to eat....

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And I thought I was the only one who grew up so poor we ate raccoon.

[Wolfdog91]

Always find it weird when northern folk talk about not eating coon all the berries and wild forage the average in probably eats up there. Even more so when I talk to my buddies from the corn states who are road trapping next to corn fields. They always say they would never eat one because of what they eat and I'm just hear like " the ton and tons of corn the framers hate them for ?"
Will say though find it HALARIOUS a few times at cook out somone invites their buddy and their praising how good some of the meat is and when they finally as and told it's a coon or possum they lose it lol.
Another this i find odd is people will eat a black bear but turn their nose up to a coon.

[dverna]

Always find it weird when northern folk talk about not eating coon all the berries and wild forage the average in probably eats up there. Even more so when I talk to my buddies from the corn states who are road trapping next to corn fields. They always say they would never eat one because of what they eat and I'm just hear like " the ton and tons of corn the framers hate them for ?"
Will say though find it HALARIOUS a few times at cook out somone invites their buddy and their praising how good some of the meat is and when they finally as and told it's a coon or possum they lose it lol.
Another this i find odd is people will eat a black bear but turn their nose up to a coon.

Must be a cultural thing. I told one of my buddies about it once and got “the look”. Never mentioned it again.

But you are right. Even here in my area of rural Michigan where we have a lot of poor people, no one eats raccoons or at least admits it.

[44Blam]

If you are in a straight wall hunting state, you could get an upper in 350 legend and I guarantee that a 180 grain boolit going 2000 fps is gonna smoke a racoon. I have a video of a gummy bear:
https://youtu.be/iddnwKmwn6c

[megasupermagnum]

Are you saying Racoon is like bear meat? I better find the spotlight...

[Wolfdog91]

Are you saying Racoon is like bear meat? I better find the spotlight...

Never had bear so I can't speak on that and personally not a fan of coon. Just eh, I mean I have some really good coon that I guarantee if I gave it to you on a bun most people would think it's pulled pork ( ask me how I know lol ) but it's just not something I'm crazy about. Just think it's odd that people will eat a black bear which what I've seen eat about the same stuff if given the chance as a coon but turn their nose up to a coon stating their nasty animals . I mean yeah that would make sense if their city coon and the same would have to be said about bear in heaven areas because their both heck on trash cans but given the right diet ie a con field or berry thickets ect I mean...
Will say though alot of folks who try to cook coon miss one SUPER important step and ruin it every single time . If you don't gland a coon ......boy you couldn't pay me enough

[Wolfdog91]

Well then again guess it's like my buddies in the UK thinking we're crazy for eating squirrels when they will shoot litterly 2dozen in one session and throw them away stating their inedible....even though they been stuffing them selfs on free range acorns and bird seed but then they'll turn around a praise duck as one if the finest wild game meats and they littlery spend most of their time filter feeding in the mud. Interesting world lol

[megasupermagnum]

Your really dong a disservice by not trying black bear. Of all the "normal" red meats, meaning cow, deer, elk, bear, etc. black bear is tops. Best red meat I've ever eaten. Soft, tender, juicy, just phenomenal taste. Cow is fine, kind of bland.

I try not to judge until I try it. I like squirrel, it's not not my top choice. A lot of work for such little meat. I'd rather have cottontail rabbit, which tastes kind of similar. Duck is even more work, but such a unique taste. There's really nothing that compares to duck. It's either the best steak you ever had, or the worst depending on how you cook it.

I'll have to try raccoon. We don't have much for opossum, but I could dump some old food on the ground and have a raccoon by tomorrow if I wanted.

[Land Owner]

What would you finger that alloy would be if I was making it out of pure ingredients?

I smelt 100-pounds batches at a time, with 50-pounds of 100% nuclear shielding lead and whatever pedigree that comes with 50-pounds of Tire Shop Clip On Wheel Weights, poured into 3-pound, 50-50 percent, Pb-WW ingots. Each 3-pound lead-WW ingot is weighed in pounds and ounces.

In a 20-pound melting pot I add 3-pound ingots (say 5) of 50-50 alloy and total the sum of the five (5) 3-pound alloy ingot weights I wrote on them when cast (Ex: five ingots total 14-pounds 12-ounces). I cut off, from pre-melted 1-pound ingots of pewter, and add the specific weight of Tin to the pot, allowing for the percentage of lead in that pewter ingot so my boolit casting alloy becomes, without metallurgical analysis, close to the pin of 49-49-2 percent Pb-WW-Sn and a BHN of 13 (+/-).

[JoeJames]

Been there done that, Joe James! Since I don't skin or eat them anymore- I just shotgun them out of the tree. They sure love that corn- that I didn't buy for them and their pig cousins to eat....

Sent from my SM-A716U using TapatalkYes, a coon would climb one stalk, and break it down for one ear of corn. Would look like it had been bush hogged.

[Mk42gunner]

Always find it weird when northern folk talk about not eating coon all the berries and wild forage the average in probably eats up there. Even more so when I talk to my buddies from the corn states who are road trapping next to corn fields. They always say they would never eat one because of what they eat and I'm just hear like " the ton and tons of corn the framers hate them for ?"
Will say though find it HALARIOUS a few times at cook out somone invites their buddy and their praising how good some of the meat is and when they finally as and told it's a coon or possum they lose it lol.
Another this i find odd is people will eat a black bear but turn their nose up to a coon.
I have not eaten coon, but I have sold a lot of carcasses from trapping to people from KC. I will state that the meat looks as good as deer meat, and I wouldn't have any problems eating it.

Possums on the other hand always seemed very greasy and nasty when skinning.

No bears around here, so I probably won't be trying any soon.

Robert

[Hanzy4200]

I don't see stingers being a advantage. Lighter faster bullets don't always mean better. I have a friend who coon hunts excessively, and he uses standard Minimags with great success.