The best pump shotgun

[Texas by God]

This will absolutely be an opinion thread but may be fun; I'll start.
I have owned and used Winchester 97s and 12s and 1200s, Mossberg 500s, Browning BPS, High Standards, Ithaca 37s, Savage 67s, and Remington 870s. Of all of these, I'll go with the Remington 870 with the Ithaca 37 a very close second.
How about you?

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[gmsharps]

I like the Winchester md 12 but the Ithaca 37 comes close

Gmsharps

[GhostHawk]

I looked long and hard before buying my first pump shotgun. Talked to a lot of people, including a lot of old timers.

I never did hear of anyone who really had anything bad to say about Remington Wingmaster 870's.

I have 3 now. Started with a 20 ga, had the stock trimmed to fit my small stature at the time. I inherited my Grandfathers Brother in laws 16 ga. Plain barrel, no rib, was made in the first 3 or 4 years production. And later when I was wanting to get into the shooting trap game. I found out I had a first cousin a year older than me that had an 870 special trap in 12 ga. Extra high comb on stock, higher rib, 2 beads on the rib.

All 3 have served me well over the years. I have yet to have a significant problem with any one of them.

All are the old original Wingmasters, not the cheaper express versions.

I will never sell one.

The 12 ga has stood behind my bedroom door loaded with 7.5 shot for over 24 years. Fully loaded, 4 in the tube, one in chamber, but with the action half open. No way it can go off my accident. You would have to push the safety over, push the forearm forward and pull the trigger to get it to fire. But it can be done in less than a second. Safe, secure, yet instantly ready at need.

[unclemikeinct]

ah Mann, Pick One ? I have 3 Favs, the 97 Win. The 1200 or 870 Ford Chevy debate, & I'm still loving my 20ga. Ithaca featherweight delux from when I was 21 y/o ... PS I love my O/U ers Too! unclemikeinct

[M-Tecs]

Like most things that depends on application.

For trapshooting with a pump Winchester Model 12 hands down.

For lefties Ithaca 37

For cowboy action Winchester 97

For hunting Winchester Model 12 with a very close second being a Rem 870.

For modifiable for the tacticool stuff the Rem 870 with the Mossberg 500/590 a very close second.

For extreme cold weather or home defense the Mossberg 590 with its center safety is hard to beat. The Rem 870 is a very close second.

If I could only have one it would be a Winchester Model 12.

[HWooldridge]

I have a Win 97, an Ithaca 37, and an 870…the 37 is my favorite - it’s just so slick to run.

[dverna]

The only use I have for a pump is as defensive weapon. The Mossberg 500 was what I picked...so it must be the best. Had three, now down to two. A friend wanted one when the peaceful protests broke out and offered me $1000 for one of my tactical guns. I sold it to him for $750.

[rking22]

A topic dear to my heart! Best is subjective, the 870 has to be close if not it. It’s a solid gun that handles like a much more expensive gun. The M12 is a fantastic gun, but expensive and complex to build. That is true for the M37 and it’s sire, the Remington M17 as well as the Rem M31. The Later Winchesters that replaced the M12 were decent guns and handle well but were doomed because they weren’t M12s! I have never owned a Browning pump other than the M12 copies. Their bottom eject gun has never felt “right” to me so I have never bought one. Mossbergs fall into that same “feel” thing, and I don’t like the top safety. The design borrows heavily from my loved M31, it’s mostly the stock dimensions and aluminum receiver making the balance weird for me, I guess. Solid built guns, just don’t work for me. Same as the BPS.
So, I love the M17 (and the 16 ga M37 and M12s) but the bottom loading causes many people issues. The M31 was an improved M17, that improvement was primarily the side ejection port, market wanted it, I see the advantage. Flightkings point well and are well built but never made in volume.
My vote is the Remington M31 as best pump gun ever built. I want to say the M42 was the best, but only 410 bore is not very practical. The one gun I shoot the most is a M17 with checkered wood and a solid rib , made in 25. I think it is best for me, but long out of production.
The current Ithaca M37s are fine guns, but the lack of a side port and cost work against it in the general market.
The 870 probably deserves the title due to cost effectiveness and it (Wingmasters) performs almost as well as the M12 and M31 while being designed for manufacture rather than being hand fit.
All above is about field or clay shooting, no opinion on 3 gun stuff.

[BMW Rider]

My BPS gets the nod over my 870 Wingmaster, except for the past few decades I've been more into the O/Us so the BPS and 870 don't come out to play too often anymore. That being said, I've always coveted my buddy's M12 Heavy Duck...

[kaiser]

1st place is Ithaca 37, followed by the REM. 870. Of course in my case, gauge is the definitive criteria as to what gun comes in first place. No company that know back in the 60’s made a 16ga like Ithaca that was scaled just for the gauge without being too heavy or light. The Ithaca 16ga “featherweight was in a class of its own where a 12ga in that model was too light and kicked like a mule to a youngster. The 870 in a 20ga or 12ga was perfect for all the other task being proportioned just right for the intended tasks. Of course I’m not a big fan of 12ga 3” shotguns and consider them specialized tools for turkey and waterfowl. My .02

[TNsailorman]

For me it's the Remington 870 Wingmaster all the way.

[ulav8r]

Have 3 favorites, the Rem 870, Ithaca 37, and Mossberg 500. I have one of each. The 870 was inherited from my little brother, the 37 came from an estate auction, and the 500 was purchased from a coworker because it was so cheap. The 500 is a 12, the other 2 are 20's. Would love to have a 16 37 Featherweight, though I have never seen one.

[Baltimoreed]

Only owned Marlin hammer sg’s, 1897s, Model 12s and a Rem 870 slug gun [wish I still had it- traded it for a Woodsman]. The Model 12s are the slickest, 1897s the coolest but the 870 was the most recent made. Should be the easiest to fix. I’d vote the 870 is the most practical but the ‘97 is the coolest. See what I mean. But the M12 IS the classiest.

[trails4u]

My top three.... 870, 870, and 870. In that order.

[DDriller]

20 gauge Model 12 was my first one I had then a Rem. 870 20 gauge. Loved the 20 ga. Ithaca 37 that a friend of my dad's let me shoot. The Ithaca is still my favorite even though I don't own one.

[elmacgyver0]

I have an 870 Express Magnum, whatever that is.
It has a 20-inch rifled 12-gauge barrel, but I have never shot it in that configuration.
I have a smooth bore 26-inch for it I got off of gun Broker.
I originally bought it for deer hunting, but only problem, I never go deer hunting.
Well, I needed some kind of excuse to buy it.

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve only owned 870s and they served me well.

[Lloyd Smale]

870s 12s mossberg 500s ithacas are all great guns. Wouldnt be ashamed to own any and have owned at least one of each through the years. today i have one 870 one 500 and my favorite. A 20 gauge special field straight gripped browning bps. Its the last shotgun id get rid of.

[762 shooter]

870 Wingmaster for the long haul.

Model 12 for looks and old school craftsmanship.

762

[Noah Zark]

Ithaca 37. Bottom load and eject makes it ambidextrous, easy to take down, and no disconnector gives most of them made up to the 1980s the ability to be slam fired if needed. Based on a design by JMB, the Rem 17 shotgun.

Noah

[Lloyd Smale]

browning is similar to the 37 with bottom load and eject.

[Jedman]

I have owned a lot of pump shotguns, 1 st place I would rate the M 12 and the 870 Wingmasters a tie, 2 nd place would be a Ithaca 37 and a Win. 1300 for their lightness and speed.

I know a lot of votes for the Mossberg but I have owned them in all gauges and have had parts break on all of them plus the Hi Standard Flightking.

Jedman

[Rick Hodges]

I own two Mossberg 500's a 12 ga. and a 20 ga. I am a lefty. The 20 ga. is 47 years old and has never let me down. The 12 ga. is 40 years old and the plastic safety button broke on it. I replaced it with a metal one and it has served me well.
That said I think the Browning BPS is a better gun. I think the Remmington 870 is a great gun but not for southpaws.

[Budzilla 19]

Remington 870, any model, all the way for me. Mossberg second, if I had to. Either are great guns. As was stated earlier, application will drive this commentary, oh, and nostalgia for certain brands and models, that has a lot to do with choices. As always, just my opinions.

[Lloyd Smale]

still kick myself in the but for not buying a 12 gauge upland special when they were still being made. They even make a run in 16 guage. I should have grabbed one of them too.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Few threads have had such agreement on any subject! I like the 870, 37, and 500 in that order, but find any of the three very acceptable!

DG

[pietro]

.

Ithaca M-37 20ga, +595 ;)

I've owned/shot all of the above pump shotguns over the past 55 years, and a few that I shouldn't have (like a Noble) - but my 20ga Deerslayer is my keeper for local shotgun season for deer.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've had a Mossberg 500 12 ga taking a beating since the 80's, just works, gritty, frozen, whatever, I do clean it when rained or dusted dirty real bad, detail strip once a year. I've had a Winchester 1200 and a Rem 870 but the TOP SAFETY on the Mossberg 500 works best for me. I've got Mossberg 500's as truck guns in 3 different trucks. A 20ga Bantam, a 12ga Turkey gun and another 12 ga with 20" barrel. I like the short barrels but with a the choke tubes, usually a modified in the gun. The Mossberg 500's seem to be lighter than most other pump shotguns, lots of different barrels available and price has always been very reasonable.

[Shawlerbrook]

Definitely subjective and also there are varying measuring sticks to use but I’ll give it a shot. The Ithaca 37 is my all time favorite and is built the best(IMHO). The 870 is a flawless operator and probably has the most aftermarket accessories. The Mossberg 500 just works and used to be a bargain. The Winchester M12 is a legacy gun and again fits and feels comfortable and the Winchester 1897 just looks darn cool !

[Mr Peabody]

I always take the Mossberg 500/590. Just for the safety placement

[gwpercle]

Remington model 17 , 20 gauge pump ... my most favorite to take afield for birds or small game .
Very light , slim , trim and points naturally .
My Grandfather bought it in 1929 and all he ever hunted was "Birds" ... and that meant Quail !

But on rabbit , squirrels and crows ... it gave a good account of itself .
The Remington model 17 (John M. Browning designed) is my favorite ...hands down !
Gary

[TMB]

My favorites are my 1897s, my best is Remington 870 Wingmaster and Special Field. My main HD shotgun is Mossberg 500.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I have three pumps, all 12ga. an 870 Wing Master 2 3/4'' 28'' VR Mod. plus a 20'' smooth bore rifled slug barrel with sights and choke set I bought new in 1967 and still looks new, other than I added a 2 shell extension. A 1953 Ithaca 37 2 3/4'' 30'' full and my baby, a Ithaca 37 ''Magnum'' Model that came with a 30'' Full VR barrel that now has a collection of barrels, a 26'' VR with choke set, 20'' smooth bore Deer Slayer, 20'' rifled Deer Slayer, and a 20'' riot barrel, I got everything covered with that gun!

My baby with 20'' smooth bore ''Deer Slayer'' barrel. Lovely combination for buck and ball!

295569

[toallmy]

I can't say anything bad about the 870s they are a wonderful shotgun , but I made a choice earlier in life to go with the 500s and I have never regretted it . I don't even feel bad about ruff handling them .

[Freightman]

Might not be the best but I got this J.C. Higgins for my 16th birthday in 1955. It has killed a slew of quail and rabbits never failed me. It is a 12 ga.. with ventilated rib and has four choke tubes. Now my son has it and his son will get it later.

[clearwater]

Remington Model 31

Slick

[brassrat]

I found a nice HS Fliteking at Cabelas two years ago. It really is a great shooting and smooth shotgun even with its weird unremovable barrel.

[jakharath]

For the price Benelli Novas are pretty nice. I'd put them with the Mossbergs 500's and Remington 870's.

[Mk42gunner]

Remington Model 870 Wingmaster for me, followed by the 16 ga Ithaca Model 37 Featherweight. I don't like the safety in front of the trigger guard on the Winchester Model 12/1200/1300.

I have owned and hunted with several Mossberg pumps, what turned me off of them was doing monthly PMS when I had the armory on my first ship. They tend to be a PITA to take apart and put back together for no reason. That and the fact there are about ninety seven different versions of the basic model 500 with single or double slide bars and length of mag tube.

I did have a Marlin Model 120 Trap gun that sort of resembled a Model 12, it was a very good 16 yard gun.

Dad had a 16 ga that worked okay, I don't remember if it was a JC Higgins or a High Standard, but it worked.

Robert

[stubshaft]

I own a passel of pump guns and would say that I started with a model 12, 16 gauge 50 odd years ago and over the course of time have usually used them for the following purposes. Winchester 12 for Trap, Remington 870 for Skeet, Ithaca 37 Featherweight for upland hunting with a model 12 bringing up the rear for goose and duck.

[Lloyd Smale]

I always take the Mossberg 500/590. Just for the safety placement

yup a tang safety is what would make me choose a 500 over an 870

[megasupermagnum]

The Ithaca 37's in the featherlights are good for the weights. They are the lightest pump actions I know of. Besides that, there are good reasons they are just about gone from memory. I'm a lefty, and the model 37 is one of the worst pump actions for left handers there is. The safety is in a horrible spot, and the slide release isn't that much better. It's a bottom eject, and port loading is not possible. I'd like a featherlight in 16 gauge, but other than that, they don't have a lot going for them.

The Remington 870 has a great track record, and a long one at that. There's upgrades to over come their deficiencies like the poor safety placement, and smaller magazines. Not much can be done about the shell lifter though, and if you ever have a shell get under there, you are SOL. I've seen it happen multiple times.

The Mossberg 500 also has a great track record, and fairly long. The safety is in a great place, the slide release is in a great place. There's really no way to jam one bad to where you need to take it apart like you do an 870. They are reasonably easy to load quickly, have a decent magazine capacity, especially for the 590 variant. You can use stock shims to adjust fit. You can't do that on an 870. There's really not a lot I can think of wrong with the 500's. A more streamlined loading port for quickly loading is about all I can imagine. Maybe a one-piece trigger group for tool-less disassembly.

The Benelli Nova has two things going for it. The first is that it is by far the easiest gun to disassemble that I have experienced. No tools at all, you use the mag cap to push two action pins out, and that's it. The trigger group is one-piece, the bolt another. The other thing the Nova has is that it is by far the easiest to load quickly. The 3 1/2" action is long, but this allows large loading and ejection ports. Also the trigger group, and shell lifter are designed to funnel shells right into the magazine. The guys who load quickly like 3-gun shooters all agree the Nova is the easiest pump action to load. The super nova is the same thing, but has a removable butt stock. I'm not really sure why they use a polymer coated frame. Everything else on the gun is steel, including the frame itself. I think the Nova could be improved by using an aluminum frame, not that the Nova is bulky, but it doesn't look all that great. It looks like burnt marshmallow. The safety position of the Nova isn't bad, not my first choice, but better than a Ithaca or Remington. The magazine capacity is pretty bad, only holding 4. Magazine extensions exist, although everything Benelli is expensive. The rotating bolt is unique for shotguns, but does nothing good or bad for the design.

The Winchester 12 I have little experience with. The slide release is in a great spot. The safety is in front of the trigger guard, which I normally don't mind, but the model 12 is tucked up so tight that you barely get any purchase. As a left hander, it is very bad. The shell lifter is the goofiest setup I've ever seen, a shell pops out of the magazine, and topping off is that much harder. It's basically a clays competition gun, I would never choose one for anything else. Even for hunting, the model 97 is superior. That all sounds bad, but that's only my experience, and the model 12 obviously has the trophies to show it is the sport shooting king.

The Winchester 1897 I think is vastly underappreciated. Everyone is always looking at the hammer, but that is such a non-issue. Maybe it's because I was raised on hammer guns. It's old school, half cock is your safety. I love an exposed hammer as much as I love a tang safety. Especially for new shooters, I can visually tell the state the gun is in. What the 1897 brings to the table is a super trim frame and a giant ejection port. This is one area the Mossberg 500 could improve is to have a giant ejection port like this. The shell lifter also doubles as the locking bolt, which is a unique design, but it works really well. The shell lifter is shaped to make loading very easy. The trigger guard is the only thing keeping it from being as good as the Benelli Nova. Port loading this is a dream come true. The capacity is decent, holding 6 in the magazine, which is good even by todays standards, but it can not be extended beyond that. Both the model 12 and model 97 share a similar barrel setup, which is very rugged, but is outdated today. Some complain about the weight, and I have no idea why. My Mossberg 500 with 30" barrel weighs 7 pounds 13 ounces. My Winchester 97 with 30" barrel weighs 7 pounds 15 ounces. Put different stocks on the Mossberg, and they would probably be the same. Unloading the 97 is kind of fun, you can push the two buttons, and the magazine empties. The biggest detriment to the 97 is the slide release. Fine for a right hander, a little harder left hand. I have big hands, and I've never even been close to being touched by the bolt coming back, but sometimes people say it happens. That's the price of a super trim and slim frame. The only real knock I can think of is that the action is stiffer than a modern design. That heavy shell lifter/bolt lock combined with the hammer cocking make it feel heavy at first, then silky smooth. It's a unique feel, but not something I'd prefer for fast shooting.

The Browning BPS is a little different. It's a hunting gun through and through, but not a cheap one. The safety is in a great spot. The slide release is ok, but not great. Fine for a hunting gun. It's a bottom eject, so port loading is impossible. The loading port is ok, about like a Mossberg 500. The magazine holds 5, which is average. I've shot both a 12 and 10 gauge version, and never witnessed an issue. The action is nice and smooth. The design seems to have changed slightly. Browning currently lists the 12 gauge at 7 pounds 12 ounces. This was not always the case. The 12 gauge I shot is likely from the 90's, and was the 10 gauge frame. It is about 10 1/2 pounds. This might sound dumb, but it isn't for a waterfowl gun. I'll argue the Browning BPS is the best pump waterfowl gun ever made due to the weight. Along with that the 10 gauge version is the same weight, which is quite trim as far as 10 gauges go. Lighter than any semi-auto, with the exception of the gold-10 light.

There's a whole bunch of different ones today, but mostly they are a clone of an 870 or 500. As far as I'm concerned, the Nova is the last pump to come to market that actually did something different, and that must have been 1996-98 somewhere in there.

[FergusonTO35]

My fave is the 870. The 500 is a great gun, but I just can't get past the loose as a goose forend and nickel size gap between the mag tube and the barrel hanger.

[Golfswithwolves]

I am by preference a SXS doubles guy, but I like pump actions too (but I just haven't learned yet to work the actions as smoothly and quickly as real pump-gunners can). My favorite pumpguns are Model 12 Winchesters because they feel best and most natural to me, and because I can shoot them better than the other types. Almost as good for me was an Ithaca 37 in 16 gauge. The Model 12 has one fault these days, in that I don't care to shoot the modern steel and tungsten loads in them in order to avoid possible barrel damage. I choose to shot the soft bismuth shot for waterfowling, but others who don't want to spend bismuth prices might prefer a modern pumpgun with a thick and stronger barrel design for when they must use steel or other non-toxic shot.

[bowfin]

Ithaca Model 37, although as a Leftie I should probably pick the Browning BPS.

I have seen to many 870 Express shotguns with broken ejector springs to put that gun even in the top ten.

[RKJ]

I've only had 870's myself (and a couple of SxS but I digress). The original Wingmaster I bought in 1982 has served me very well and the Express versions do pretty good also.

[megasupermagnum]

Ithaca Model 37, although as a Leftie I should probably pick the Browning BPS.

I have seen to many 870 Express shotguns with broken ejector springs to put that gun even in the top ten.

I've been around 870's a while, and I had no idea they even had a spring. Looking now, it appears they use a leaf spring back there then riveted in. Apparently they kind of work without the spring, but not really. I've never noticed before, that's definitely a big fault right there. Most pumps don't need a spring to work. The wingmasters are a step up for sure, although I'm not sure about their ejector. The express's, I just don't see how people like them. My dad loves them, been shooing one since about 1990, bought his second about 5 years ago. Both have issues he ignores. They always seem to eject, but both have death locked with a shell under the bolt, and above the lifter. That shuts a hunt right down. Both lock up when you try and pump them. It's almost like you have to pull back, then when you shoot, you pull forward, then you can pump it. Both have had "duds" that I really don't think was the ammo's fault. The express's are not good guns at all. Really nothing Remington made from 2007-2020 was good.

[Harter66]

I grew up on M12 Winchesters .

I've shot a few 870s , a couple M500s , M37s , a 97 , Stevens 620 , 1200s , and a 1908 S Marlin .
I love my BPS , but if not for my left eyedness it would be the M12s all day every day .

[megasupermagnum]

I grew up on M12 Winchesters .

I've shot a few 870s , a couple M500s , M37s , a 97 , Stevens 620 , 1200s , and a 1908 S Marlin .
I love my BPS , but if not for my left eyedness it would be the M12s all day every day .

You'd take a model 12 over anything else for defensive use? You'd take a model 12 over anything else for 3 gun or other similar competition shooting? I can already tell you what happens if you try and use a model 12 in a fast paced environment. You will get your rear end handed to you on a platter.

[Walks]

Remington 870 is the Best pump shotgun ever made.

Winchester 12 is the Finest pump shotgun ever made.

Hunted Ducks with both, Pheasant, Dove & Quail too.
Shot thousands of rounds of Trap with an 870TB. And some Skeet with an 870 field gun.

Can't and don't have to choose between them.

[Binky]

I have owned M12, Browning BPS, Ithaca 37, several 870s, and several Savage/Stevens 67s. While in LE, I used HI Standard and Mossberg(I don't think it was a 500 but it was 40+ years ago and I disremember the model) All worked, some better than others. Favorite? Probably the BPS, Ithaca and 870 in that order. While I love my Model 12 ( Inherited from my favorite uncle) it requires practice to run as it has several quirks in its manual of arms that make it harder to operate, at least for me.

[M-Tecs]

You'd take a model 12 over anything else for defensive use? You'd take a model 12 over anything else for 3 gun or other competition shooting? I can already tell you what happens if you try and use a model 12 in a fast paced environment. You will get your rear end handed to you on a platter.

For 30 years, Herb Parsons was Winchester’s exhibition shooter known as the Showman Shooter. His signature feat was hand throwing and individually breaking seven clay targets with a Winchester Model 12, 12-gauge pump action shotgun. He was paid to use Models 12's but it worked very well for him most of his trick shooting years. At the end of his career he used the Super X auto.

Others like John Satterwhite used a variety of pump shotguns to do the same but he preferred the Model 12. He liked the fact it did not have a disconnector. Those Model 12's were the smoothest pump shotguns I ever handed. If I remember correctly, he stated he had about 1/2 million rounds thru a couple of his models 12's. That was per a conversation I personally had with him in the late 80's or early 90's and handling a couple his Model 12's.

The Model 12 is dated and has a very limited 3 gun accessories so it would not be my first choice. I am not a 3 gun and have very limit knowledge on 3-gun but from what I have seen semi-auto's dominate so you can say the same for any pump gun.

For home defense I am very happy models 12's or 97's.

As to getting my rear handed to me that will happen even if I am using the state-of-the-art wonder gun simple because I am not a 3-gun shooter and my guess is as a beginner I would not be competitive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu9-D9KqR4k

[725]

Wingmaster 870 - Express ~ not so much.

[Bigslug]

I maintained a Remington 870 armorer cert since 2002, or at least until they quit offering re-cert classes during their great meltdown.

I have come to VASTLY prefer the Mossberg 500/590 for ease of working on, less stuff being "solid state" that you can't easily work on, having better placed controls, and for it being significantly harder for the less-trained operator to choke up. They're a lot easier to get rounds into as well.

[megasupermagnum]

As I already said, the model 12 has the trophies to prove its worth as a clays shooting gun. As long as you don't have to reload it fast, it is ok. I was only responding to the "all day, every day" comment. As someone else said, the model 12 is about the finest pump action ever made, just not the end-all-be-all. No pump action is, but the model 12 is definitely in the sporting category, and lacking on other fronts. The Mossberg 500 is more rugged, and the Benelli Nova is faster to load. Even the model 97 is both more rugged, and faster to load than the model 12, and only lacks that super easy action.

Thankfully we can own them all, pump actions aren't that horribly expensive.

[rbuck351]

I haven't had a lot of experience with different pump shotguns. I started with a M10 Remington that I liked but the trigger wore out and I found that this was a common problem and many gunsmiths would not work on them. A friend had a 1897 that did the same thing ( fired on closing the action) apparently also a common problem. The Ithaca doesn't have a side ejection port which makes them slow to keep shooting when you run it empty. Not a big deal unless you are using it for police work. No experience with the M12 but I haven't heard anything bad about them. The Mossberg seem to be a solid gun but there is a lot of parts in the bolt.
I spent 20 years in corrections and was a RO for most of that. Our shotgun was the Rem 870. We had several in each of the prisons and they got a lot of use in training and qualifying Officers. The one 870 that I know of that broke an ejector spring still worked fine if worked like you are supposed to. Run it hard and fast. Short stroking is the cause of the jam up of a round stuck under the bolt and over the lifter. This can be cleared if you grab the slide with both hands and slam the butt on the ground. Keeping the gun firing is after you have emptied the magazine is quite fast chamber loading from a side saddle. Any way, my vote goes to the 870 if police work is to be considered. If not considering police work, the brand doesn't matter much

[imashooter2]

I prefer the 500 over the 870. The controls are where they should be.

[megasupermagnum]

I haven't had a lot of experience with different pump shotguns. I started with a M10 Remington that I liked but the trigger wore out and I found that this was a common problem and many gunsmiths would not work on them. A friend had a 1897 that did the same thing ( fired on closing the action) apparently also a common problem. The Ithaca doesn't have a side ejection port which makes them slow to keep shooting when you run it empty. Not a big deal unless you are using it for police work. No experience with the M12 but I haven't heard anything bad about them. The Mossberg seem to be a solid gun but there is a lot of parts in the bolt.
I spent 20 years in corrections and was a RO for most of that. Our shotgun was the Rem 870. We had several in each of the prisons and they got a lot of use in training and qualifying Officers. The one 870 that I know of that broke an ejector spring still worked fine if worked like you are supposed to. Run it hard and fast. Short stroking is the cause of the jam up of a round stuck under the bolt and over the lifter. This can be cleared if you grab the slide with both hands and slam the butt on the ground. Keeping the gun firing is after you have emptied the magazine is quite fast chamber loading from a side saddle. Any way, my vote goes to the 870 if police work is to be considered. If not considering police work, the brand doesn't matter much

I know nothing about a Remington model 10, but there's very few ways an 1897 could fire like that unless the firing pin was seized forward. Even if your full cock notch was so worn, the half cock would catch it before it fired. About the only other way is if the gun was so filthy all the little crannies were full of gunk, which is surprisingly common. People didn't take care of guns that well back then. Either way, a strip and clean should fix it. The 1897 might not be the slickest, lightest, or fanciest pump action, but it has no functional flaws. If you were to to pick a gun that you wanted to count on to work untouched in 10, 20, 50 years, the 1897 is it.

As for the 500 bolt, besides the locking lug itself, the bolt only contains a firing pin and spring, as well as 2 extractors and springs. It's easier to fully strip a Mossberg 500 bolt than it is to just change a firing pin in a Remington 870.

[skeettx]

Best?? Perhaps my Winchester Model 42, what a wonderful gun.

https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/60265_1000x600.jpg

Mike

[Baltimoreed]

Nobody’s mentioned the Marlin Model 24 or 42. Easy to load, easily made into a 6 shooter, takedown, large ejection port, exposed hammer and very slick. Fewer parts than a ‘97. Other than those delicate flat springs, redundant safeties, lack of spare parts and warnings from Marlin not to use them whats not to love. I shoot my full stocked guns with cas loads most every month at my cas clubs shoots. In fact with 2 inch shells they hold and feed seven rounds.

[cuzinbruce]

Model 12 for me. 870 is close. I had an Ithaca 37 in Imp Cyl and took it to shoot skeet. What a PITA. Loading skeet, one round at a time, put the shell in the mag, release the bolt, pump it, then shoot. Next target, do it all over again. Win 12, just drop the shell in open chamber and close gun. IMHO.

[shdwlkr]

if I were to pick a shotgun it would be the Ithaca 37, that is what the Army handed to me several decades ago and it did as required what more do you want from a shotgun. Oh it was fed double O buck exclusively

[nhithaca]

I guess I should add my two cents to this discussion:
Growing up, my father only had a handful of guns; a Remington 760 30-06, a Ruger original 4" semi auto pistol and a Remington Model 17 w/ modified choke. He tended to treat his firearms as tools and not as collectables so everything was well used but taken care of. His Model 17 shotgun killed everything from mice to weasels to all kinds of game birds to ducks and even geese. He bought the gun in his teens from the neighbor kid next door (just before WWII) and even killed a few deer with it using slugs. And though it was only a 20 gauge, he never felt under gunned. Proved this point a number of times at a local turkey shoot, out shooting guys using 12 gauge guns.

So, by extension I became interested in the Ithaca Model 37, which is just a slightly updated version of the Model 17, but made in 12, 16 and 20 gauges. At last count I think I have at least a dozen of these, all in 12 gauge, including 5 or more of the 8 shot versions (and one of the very rare 9 shot models) plus a AOW 14" Stakeout. These Ithacas have the fewest total number of parts of any pump action shot gun, are generally the lightest 12 gauge pump gun (especially the earlier guns & forgetting about the Model 17) and tend to be trouble free guns (as long as properly taken care of). It also can be argued that they are or are close to the smoothest pump gun to run especially when well broken in and properly lubricated. Model 31 Remingtons and Model 12 Winchesters are both very smooth operators but it is my belief that the Ithaca 37 is right up there with those two. And lastly, the Model 37 has the distinction of being the longest continually manufactured pump shot gun in the world with production still ongoing in Ohio today.

And, I do also own 3 of the Remington Model 17s, a beat-up early Model 31, a couple of the older Marlins, a 1897 Norinco trench gun and a Philippine made High Standard knock off.

Just my opinion, thanks.

[rking22]

You can chamber load M37 and M17 Remington guns, I do it all the time. Open the action, now move the slide about 3/4 inch forward. Take a shell and slip it up into the action and into the chamber, close slide(after removing thumb!) stuff another couple in the magazine tube. When ready to unload, hand under the port and press the cartridge stop into the action, she’ll is dispensed into your hand repeat till tube is empty, open slide and catch that one, all done.
Side ports are easier but once you get used to it, there’s no problem.

[rshooter]

The Corps started me off on 870's and I have never changed. I have four police and riot guns in different configurations, one is from the 60's and still running strong with full powered 00 buck. I imagine they will be handed down to my grandchildren after my son is done with them.

[samari46]

Must be doing something right. Have an older 870 with slug barrel with rifle sights, 870 express bought it when it was cheaper to buy the whole gun than buy a new barrel. And two riot guns. Those are fun to shoot. Frank

[Jedman]

You can chamber load M37 and M17 Remington guns, I do it all the time. Open the action, now move the slide about 3/4 inch forward. Take a shell and slip it up into the action and into the chamber, close slide(after removing thumb!) stuff another couple in the magazine tube. When ready to unload, hand under the port and press the cartridge stop into the action, she’ll is dispensed into your hand repeat till tube is empty, open slide and catch that one, all done.
Side ports are easier but once you get used to it, there’s no problem.

Exactly! I am a lefty and don’t have any problems operating a M 37, not perfect but light and nimble.

Jedman

[Ithaca Gunner]

Exactly! I am a lefty and don’t have any problems operating a M 37, not perfect but light and nimble.

Jedman

You know you can switch the safety around on a M37 for left or right hand shooters??

[nhithaca]

I also should have noted this feature in my post; never had any issues single loading a Model 17. It's how my father taught us to shoot clay pigeons.

And with the Model 37s, the safety can be changed out from right hand to left hand but you do need the correct button (GunParts or Ithaca in Ohio has them).

[megasupermagnum]

You know you can switch the safety around on a M37 for left or right hand shooters??

No, Ithaca safeties are not reversible. There is a unicorn that is a "left handed" safety for a M37 somewhere. I've never found one for sale. I was hoping to try it on my Ithaca Mag 10. The safeties are simple, but a little tricky to take out. There's not a single video about a Ithaca safety.

Best bet for a left handed shooter on the fence is to avoid Ithaca. Get a Browning BPS if you like bottom eject.

[Texas by God]

My best friend's dad had a Ithaca 37 that had a left handed safety that looked factory. It was the only one I've ever seen.
I used to love ejecting fired shells straight up in the air and hitting them with the m37s.
My wife's m17 will not slamfire( holding trigger back while pumping), but I've had early 37s that would as well as m97s and m12s. It's not a good feature in my eyes.
Short barreled m37s are great on the river- the hulls land in the boat.
We need more pics, people.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[nhithaca]

On e-bay right now-------------Left hand safety


Not mine

[bowfin]

There is a unicorn that is a "left handed" safety for a M37 somewhere. I've never found one for sale.

295750

I just took this screenshot off of the Ithaca website. Note one can choose either right hand or left hand safety.

[megasupermagnum]

295750

I just took this screenshot off of the Ithaca website. Note one can choose either right hand or left hand safety.

Ithaca has a website!? I must have missed a big chunk of their history, because I was under the impression they went belly up in the 80's. I know they still existed until the mid 2000's as a smaller company, and the only reason I know that is because I have a shotgun barrel made by them that was defective, but they wouldn't touch because they were closing down. I can't think of a single Ithaca gun I've seen made in the past 20 years. I'll go one step farther, I'm 27 years old. I've never seen a brand new Ithaca in my lifetime.

So I have to ask, is this new Ithaca company the same? And if so, will their parts fit the older guns.

[bowfin]

So I have to ask, is this new Ithaca company the same? And if so, will their parts fit the older guns.

I would rate the new Ithaca pumps as the best ever made with that name. They manufacture the Inland Mfg. Ithaca trench gun as well as a lot of mouth watering M37 models, like a 28 gauge.

I believe that the only parts that might be problematic are barrels, since the older Ithacas (serial numbers below 855,000I believe) had barrels that aren't interchangeable with the Ithaca M37s made during the last three or four decades.

About 10-12 years ago, the Scheel's sporting good chain carried the new Ithacas, but they said they didn't move for them because people thought they were out of business and nobody wanted a gun for which they couldn't get parts.

[megasupermagnum]

Now that I think about it, I vaguely remember this happening, but they have really not done a good job on advertising. From the quick research I've done, It looks like the Ithaca most people knew went bankrupt in 1986. I'm assuming they sold what they could, Remington bought the Mag10 plans around that time. Some weird stuff happened for a while. It appears the name and at least the model 37 designs were purchased by some company around 2006-2007ish. They opened a manufacturing plant in Sandusky, Ohio. There's not much info, but internet chatter seems to really start up 2013-2014ish, which seems to be when they actually started making shotguns again. There's lots of talk, but not too many seem to have bought them.

I take it you own one, so maybe you can fill in the blanks. I'm not seeing any mechanical difference to the pre-1986 model 37's. I know model 37's before a certain serial number had fitted barrels to the frame, and afterwards were interchangeable. I see no mention on if these new "Sandusky model 37's" have interchangeable barrels, but I assume they do. Do you know if they will interchange with Ithaca 37's? They certainly look like a fine shotgun, but still appear to have all the 37's faults. It looks like they are trying to make the 37 as an upland bird hunting gun, which is great. That's exactly the best place to use one. That's some nice looking wood, they are a lighter design than most pumps, and their issues are non-issues for this purpose.

It appears they are doing a semi-custom model, similar to Freedom Arms. I'm not telling anyone what to do, but $1200+ for a basic pump action shotgun which doesn't fix the safety, and doesn't offer any advantage at all over an original Ithaca? Really? And they don't even offer a 16 gauge. That's a fail.

Edit: I found a page about their barrels. Their barrels possibly fit Ithaca 37's, but they don't sound too reassuring. If they don't, you can send the gun in to have them fitted.

[curiousgeorge]

Late to the party on this thread. Somehow I had missed this new section.

Remington 870 for me. Bought my first 12 guage Wingmaster, vent rib, 28" with modified choke when I was 19 years old. Told my wife (yes, married my high school sweetheart when we were 18) that it would be the only shotgun I would ever need. Well, 45 years later, I don't have that gun anymore, but I do have three 870's. A 20 guage with 3 barrels and a slightly shortened stock (for women & children), two 12 guage magnums with 3 vent rib barrels that I swap between them, 28" modified, 30" full, and a cut down 21" 'rabbit / bird' barrel. All are the older walnut stock and blued versions, not the Express.

But I do still have the same wife. Wouldn't trade her for a truckload of 870's. Plan on keeping her for as long as she will put up with me.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

My 870 Wingmaster was the second firearm I bought. Has a 26" skeet barrel on it. Paid $167 for it back in 1976. Nice bluing, walnut stock. I have a 20 guage youth model that i use for grouse hunting and an HD model too. Never considered another brand because i'm so used to them.

[nhithaca]

295774
Photo of a gun I put together using a 1970's receiver and new front end parts from Ohio. No issues with parts fitting. Receiver is hard chromed and the barrel and mag tube are Ithaca's black nitrite coating.

[Texas by God]

We're down to three pumps, nothing fancy. My wife's inherited Remington 17, my 870 Express 12ga( also a 28" vr barrel), and the handiest of them all, a Remington 870 20ga Express magnum Youth. As far as the Express goes, I had to file a burr from the locking lug on the 12gauges bolt, but that's the only problem I've had with one of many. The 870 Wingmaster is much nicer no doubt but I seem to have given them all away.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220204/1f925a1a94db6a5e4c796c2651857914.jpg

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[bowfin]

but $1200+ for a basic pump action shotgun which doesn't fix the safety

That is MSRP...take $200 off of that.

Do those Ithacas look "basic" too you, like an 870 Express or a Mossberg 500?

Also, what is wrong with the safety? Admittedly, I much prefer a top tang safety, but I have killed a LOT of birds by hooking my index finger around on Remingtons and Ithacas. In fact, I am still trying to get retrained with my LH Remington 1100.

[danmat]

My first pump was Monkey Wards Mossy 500, I was a poor boy and could charge it and pay it out, I drug that gun thru the gulf coast marshes for several seasons shot cases of magnums thru it and it never failed me, still have it.
I have a mdl 97 that was my stepdads dads gun he said it fed them during the depression and it looks it, taken care of just worn, still shoots good.
I like the mdl 12s had 1 son has it now.
The wingmaster 870s get my vote though, have a parkerized riot 12, a vent rib field version in 12.
My favorite one though was a wingmaster 20 ga. special field imp. cyl. short barrel 21 or 23 cant remember, that gun was lightning on quail and water hole doves, perfect balance, lightweight.
Loaned it to brother inlaw for his wife to use on a dove shoot, there house got broke into and all his guns were stolen before i got it back. My wife still shoots its twin in a 1100, all the girls in the family love that gun.

[megasupermagnum]

That is MSRP...take $200 off of that.

Do those Ithacas look "basic" too you, like an 870 Express or a Mossberg 500?

Also, what is wrong with the safety? Admittedly, I much prefer a top tang safety, but I have killed a LOT of birds by hooking my index finger around on Remingtons and Ithacas. In fact, I am still trying to get retrained with my LH Remington 1100.

$1200 is the most bone stock M37 they offer, their lowest grade walnut stock, 12 gauge. That's not MSRP, that's the asking price, and it goes up from there. It isn't like I can go to a store and buy one. If what you want is a fancy, really well built bottom eject pump action for hunting, more power to you. I would expect that these guns are right up there in Winchester model 12 quality, possibly even exceeding it. Buy whatever makes you happy.

You can feel however you want, but every design has flaws. The Model 37 safety is not the best safety position. Is it the end of the world, no. Are there better pump action safety designs, yes. The model 37 can't port load a shell, at least not without it being awkward. Does that mean it wont work, no. Are there better pump actions, yes. I'm looking at this from a design standpoint. Mechanically, what is the best shotgun action design. How well they are built is on the manufacturer, not the design. A model 12 is a well built shotgun, not a well designed one.

There's no advantages from working standpoint to a bottom eject design. They do throw shells in a boat if you are duck hunting, I'll give you that. You are giving up port loading, and the ability to dump a chamber quickly (for loading a single slug or whatever). Safeties are a bit of an opinion thing, but they need to be easy to get to from both sides. A safety tucked up behind a trigger guard is the worst. You can say what you want, but a superior design, is a superior design. The only reason safeties are behind the trigger guard is because they are afterthoughts. They are only one small step above shoving a nail behind your trigger to block them. Slide releases aren't as big a deal, and I've never encountered one that was too bad. The Winchester 1897 is the only one I would call bad placement. Then there is loading ports, the bigger and easier to load the better. A tube fed shotgun's advantages are manual control, use the ammo you want, but one of the drawbacks to a tube magazine is low capacity. If you can't keep topping that gun off easily, you may as well have a detachable box magazine. Then there are design concerns for gun fit. If you have a design like Remington, there's nothing you can do but buy a different stock. A design like Mossberg allows you to shim the stock to fit.

There's a million design concerns, the perfect pump action shotgun has not been designed yet. The Ithaca 37 is not it. You can like the gun, you can find you love how one fit you, but from a design standpoint, there are several pump action shotguns that are superior designs. The one and only area a model 37 has been superior to anything else is weight. Those featherlight models are very light.

[DougGuy]

My most utilized is a Mossy 500 with several barrels which covers hunting with slugs and scope, and home defense with an extended magazine tube. There's no other reasons I need one although I seem to remember breaking some clays with a barrel I turkey hunted with.

[BadgerShooter]

They don't get any love, but I have been running Winchester 1300s since the '70s. I've killed everything from starlings to deer with them, won combat shoots including getting to the prize table at Second Chance more than once, 25 straights on trap, never quite 25 on skeet, sporting clays, backed a bad guy off the porch, etc. I couldn't tell you offhand how many of them are sitting around here. They fit me, they are super fast and in my experience, solidly reliable. The one I bought in highschool is still running 40 some years later.

[bowfin]

There's no advantages from working standpoint to a bottom eject design.

With the Browning BPS/Ithaca M37/Remington 17 design, one has a single big hole in the receiver to collect mud, dust, dirt and sand rather than two. Hunt for a season or thirty on a sandbar in the river with a Northwest wind blowing sugar sand or freezing rain and you might appreciate it from that particular "working standpoint". I know I do and have appreciated it, but everybody hunts and shoots in different scenarios. Everybody values different aspects.

[HWooldridge]

With the Browning BPS/Ithaca M37/Remington 17 design, one has a single big hole in the receiver to collect mud, dust, dirt and sand rather than two. Hunt for a season or thirty on a sandbar in the river with a Northwest wind blowing sugar sand or freezing rain and you might appreciate it from that particular "working standpoint". I know I do and have appreciated it, but everybody hunts and shoots in different scenarios. Everybody values different aspects.

And bottom eject puts all the empties inside the boat or around your feet, which can be a great advantage over shells tossed 8 feet to your right side.

[rking22]

Remington built and marketed true left handed 870s, I got one for my BIL. Also the safety on the ones I have can be removed and flipped over for left operation, somewhere in the early 90s that became not an option. Probably a “feature” of the “new and improved” plastic trigger group, not sure. The safety position is definitely a personal choice, I detest top tang safeties on hunting guns. Too easy for people to put the finger on the trigger and thumb on the safety to walk around. Friend had a bird dog almost shot exactly that way by a gun club “friend”. No preventing stupid but using the trigger finger on the safety deters that action, also less chance of accidentally sweeping it off under there. M17s do not slam fire, I consider that a distinct advantage, why Ithaca delegated the disconnector when copying it for the M37 is a mystery. They don’t hold enough ammo for cover fire, and you aren’t going to be hitting anything slam firing. If you want a side port pump that is free of a lifter in the port, then Remington had that fixed in 1931. The Mossberg is a Rem M31 with the threaded barrel changed to a slip in with locking extension and al frame, oh and they messed up the safety in the process. The 17,31,37 guns with threaded barrels are thought to make better slug guns due to the more rigid barrel attachment, no personal opinion there. I can say putting a scope on the action of a Mossberg,870,ect will yield worst accuracy than using the beads on the barrel!
Changing loads in a 17 or 37 is no problem, press the shell stop and drop one out, load what you want, stroke the action.
None of this applies to 3 gun games, or maybe it might??? Real world SD, if I got a rifle I don’t see the shotgun as bringing anything to the party and certainly not with all the stuff added on. But there is a fully(5) loaded 870 in the closet with an 18 inch barrel. It was made in 63.

[megasupermagnum]

With the Browning BPS/Ithaca M37/Remington 17 design, one has a single big hole in the receiver to collect mud, dust, dirt and sand rather than two. Hunt for a season or thirty on a sandbar in the river with a Northwest wind blowing sugar sand or freezing rain and you might appreciate it from that particular "working standpoint". I know I do and have appreciated it, but everybody hunts and shoots in different scenarios. Everybody values different aspects.

I've put a Mossberg through a lot worse than that. In a torture test, I expect a model 37 to do every bit as good as a 500, or 870. You will never convince me a model 37 will handle more abuse than a 500 or 870. Every test, those two come out on top, but that's also because they don't test 37's and 97's anymore, which I consider equally as rugged designs. It is a trait common to pump actions. There are only two designs that I don't think would perform good, and those are the model 12, and the Nova. I've not taken a model 12 into anything harsh, but such a tight tolerance gun, with that goofy lifter is destined to fail in mud, sand, and ice. I have taken a Nova into harsh conditions, and I have had it fail, but only once I can attribute to the design. Mud got into the shell lifter causing it to not come down in time. I've never seen any possible failure point because of a side ejection port. It is nothing but an asset.

Don't take this as an insult. I enjoy most pump actions for what they are. Some are better in most ways, none in all of them. One day I hope to be apart of engineering an even better one.

[rbuck351]

I have three M10 Remingtons. I believe they are the fore runner of the bottom load/eject shotguns. Yes it is possible to chamber load one but after opening the action after your last shot you have to be careful to close the action just enough but not too much which requires turning the gun upside down so you can see when the shell lifter just clears the opening to the chamber. If you push the slide just a bit to far, you can't chamber a round because the bolt covers the chamber. No big deal if you are hunting something that doesn't shoot back.

In police use if you get a click you rack and try again. A second click and you rack it back leaving the loading port open. Next pull a round from the side saddle with left hand if right handed while keeping the gun pointed in. Then reach under the gun and slide a shell into the loading port base first, close the slide and pull the trigger. Repeat until targets are down or you are out of ammo.

Any delay in loading for another shot could get you sent home in a box. Hunting is one use for a shotgun. Hunting people that may shoot back requires a little different thought process. This is probably why the 37 is not popular with police departments. Low price point is probably a factor as well as the reliability of the 870 and the mossbergs 500 series.

When my buddies duck dog stepped on the action of my 870 and squished a big gob of mud in the action, I just stuck in the the water and swished it around a bit.It worked just fine even though it was salt water. I bought that old wingmaster about 40 years ago used and it just never gives any problems.

[Lloyd Smale]

I love the brownings but if its bang for the buck a 500 or one of the cheaper 870s is hands down the best choice. Like i said im partial to tang safetys and only have one 870 and probably wouldnt buy another as long as mossberg makes one at a competitive price.

[pete501]

Remington "Pre-Model 10" was my first shot gun. My first gun actually. It was the only gun my father owned, he received it from an old doctor friend that had served in WWI. That was Doctor Glaspell. He was one of the first US Military to go over the pond to serve as a medical doctor in WWI. Dr. Glaspell had procured a German Lugar that had been promised to my Father, unfortunately Dad only got the M10. We were not a gun family, so the shotgun was stored away for many years. Later I was invited to a Duck Hunt and asked to use the gun. I remember taping it up with masking tape and painting the whole gun camo.

I still have the old Remington, I would never sell it. Brings me fond memories and for that reason alone, it is my favorite shotgun.

[centershot]

Mossberg 500, hands down.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK this thread got filled up fast.

First it depends on what you are going to do with your shotgun? For Bird Hunting or Clays shooting any of them will work just fine.

When you get into the Tactical Style of shooting then things change fast. We look at the Police Shotguns over the last 50 years and there have been M12's and Ithaca M37's but the most used have been Rem 870's.

The Ithaca's are a PITB to keep loaded because the only way to load one is to push a round into the mag and cycle the slide. However if you run the m37 dry you are stuck having to load the magazine while possibly taking incoming fire. All the others with side eject can be Port Loaded which allows you to Single Load the gun and keep rounds going down Range .

However the one major failing with the 870 is that little bump on the Cartridge Lifter that blocks the Ejection Port if the slide is moved forward any amount at all. This is there so that shells won't fall out the side if you are racking the slide while laying on your side like under a car. Others will dump the round on the ground, but how often are you going to lay on your side under a car? Believe me this is a problem with the design and they could fix it tomorrow! (There is an aftermarket Lifter for these guns without the bump.)

This is where the Mossberg 500/590 series of guns comes in. I have 3 M500s all set up for Tactical and Home Defense. Be shooting one tomorrow at a 3 gun shoot. The Mossberg design has several advantages over the others.

1. The placement of the Safety on the back of the Receiver makes the gun "ambidextrous."

2.The placement of the Slide Release at the back of the Trigger Guard means you don't have to move your Trigger Finger to operate it like all the rest.

3.The Cartridge Lifter doesn't have a bump on it, and it also doesn't move up until the slide is about 1" off the back stop, so it stays out of the way longer.

4. The Ejection Port is much larger than other designs. This makes Single Loading or Port Loading much easier.

5 The Mossberg has two Operating Rods and Dual Extractors which makes the guns more reliable. This is why the US Military uses them now.

6. The Mossberg Design is much simpler than the others and has fewer internal parts and can be detail stripped in a minute and cleaned completely.

This is why I like the Mossbergs best for Tactical Style and Home Defense types of shooting YMMV Last month I ran 10 targets with my 5+1 M500 in 17 seconds and that included 4 port loads off a side saddle for the last 4 shots! I have some idea where I speak. I also like Rifle Sights on my Tactical Guns as I consider them to be .73 Caliber Rifles.

My Ithaca M37 was made in 1940 and it has no Disconnector so it will slam fire. This became a problem when shooting Skeet as I have been taught to Trap the trigger after the shot breaks, Cycle the action, reset the trigger, and fire the next shot. On doubles I was slam firing the second shot but was no where near the second bird. Luckily all the parts for guns made after 1975 can be retro fitted to my trigger group. All I have to do is send it to Ithaca with $75 which will happen soon...

[nhithaca]

I do like the looks of that Ithaca!

[Eddie Southgate]

Winchester model 1912 or 12 followed by the 870 Remington .

[Jeff Michel]

Remington Model 31, Ithaca 37

[Bigslug]

Post #94 / W.R. Buchanan covers a lot of the Mossberg's perks well.

To that, I would also add that the shell carrier's location is locked in location to that of the forend. If the forend is forward and the bolt closed, the carrier is locked against the bottom of the bolt and slide WHERE IT DOES NOT IMPEDE ACCESS TO THE LOADING PORT. If the forend is to the rear and the action open, the carrier is locked in the down position, BOTH PREVENTING YOU FROM TRYING TO LOAD TO THE MAGAZINE, AND PREVENTING THE SHELL CARRIER FROM BEING PUSHED UP TO WHERE IT BLOCKS ACCESS TO LOAD THROUGH THE EJECTION PORT.

Those are major strikes against the 870 which I have witnessed time and again with operators who are less than 100% in tune with how the gun runs.

From the viewpoint of working on them, the Mossbergs probably beat them all. It is probably the closest thing to a military-style, no-speical-tools take down you can find in the pump gun family. You can go to a totally naked receiver and easily replace EVERYTHING on it. The 870 has a lot of welded, staked, or riveted-in stuff that was never really intended to come out and is very bothersome when it does. It's trigger group is about 50/50 between "you can fix it" and "probably better to buy a new one", which I'm finding a little unsettling now that the Mothership's future is in doubt.

The only thing I'm NOT crazy about on the Mossbergs is that I wish they all used the 590's open-ended magazine tubes that can be MUCH more easily accessed and cleaned than the closed-front 500.

It's really hard to beat a Model 12 for sexy, or an 1897 for the sheer "John Browningness" of the thing. A lot of other slick guns from that era. None of them really offer the ease of service or switch-barrel modularity of the post-1950 guns, so that aspect really comes down to what's important to you.

[rbuck351]

The 870 shell lifter never blocks the open action. It can be up in the front of the ejection port but if you pus the new shell in the port by pushing the back end in first like you are supposed to, it goes right in pushing the lifter down and out of the way. Trying to shove a shell up into the chamber from a bottom eject gun is not the easiest nor fastest way to chamber load a shotgun. 870 or mossberg 500.I prefer the 870 mostly because as a range master for a Dept of Corrections, it was the gun we used and I am very familiar with it and have a lot of training and range time with it. I worked at three different prisons and each had 5 or 6 870s. Two or three were used for yearly requals by every officer in the prision and had a lot of buckshot and slugs ran through them. In my 20 years in corrections, I never saw one fail. Can you make one malfunction? Yes, the easiest way is to put a round in backwards, and yes I have seen it happen.

I don't like a safety on top of the action. As a Range Master I like to be able to tell quickly whether the safety is on or off when I'm training or qualifying someone. The top safetys are kind of hard to tell compared to the push through safety.

For a hunting shot gun little of this matters as there is no hurry to get the gun firing or reloaded.

[bowfin]

Don't take this as an insult.

None taken.

[brassrat]

I will vote for my Marlin 120 for best hidden slide release.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK I just found this thread so I will inject my .02 into the conversation. I have 3 M500's all set up as Tactical Guns. I have one Ithaca M37 which was my first shotgun.

The Ithaca was made in 1940 and was recently refurbished and restocked. It is NICE! But it is not a Tactical Gun by any means! Mine has a Cutts Compensator with all the choke tubes. The reason I say it is not a Tactical Gun is because there is no way to single load the thing without just stuffing a round in the magazine and cycling the action. You can't Ejection Port load one. You almost can, but it is not easy to do. It is best to not run one dry during a fight, you have to be loading the magazine constantly as that is the only way you can keep the gun firing.
Mine also doesn't have a Disconnector in the trigger group so it will slam fire which is a pain since I was taught to trap the trigger on every shot. It is hard to shoot Skeet with for that reason. I am getting the trigger group updated to the post 1975 configuration with the disconnector soon. It handles so nice it is criminal, and it looks really nice! see pics below.

The reason it has downward ejection is because JMB designed it as his "Duck Gun" that ejected spent shells down into the boat as opposed to over the side.!

As far a Tactical Pump Action Shotguns go, IMHO Mossberg has the top guns out there. That's why the Army buys them!

The only gun you can really compare them to, are Rem 870's and the 870's have some problems that aren't readily noticeable until you start running one in an intense training environment or a class where you are shooting hundreds of rounds in a day. Then they show up big time.

First: the Mberg has the Safety on the top of the receiver which makes the gun Ambi..
Second: the Mberg has the bolt release behind the trigger guard so you don't have to move your trigger finger to operate it. You use your middle finger.
Third: the 870 has a bump on the lifter which gets in the way of port loading the gun. If the slide is moved forward even 1/4" the lifter pops up and blocks the Ejection Port. The reason for this I was told, is when you are laying on your side under a car and you rack the slide the new round doesn't fall out on the ground. I don't do that very often so I can cover the port with my strong hand and not lose the round, or lay on my left side so the round doesn't fall out.
Fourth: the Mberg has Dual Extractors and Op Rods.
Fifth: the Ejection Port on the Mberg is larger than the 870 and thus easier to get rounds into during single loading.

The Aluminum Receiver is not an issue at all as everything that matters as far as the gun's strength is made of steel and all the Receiver does is hold it all together. If it wasn't safe and serviceable the Army would have never bought them.

These are all real considerations, that will matter when it really counts. That said,,, there are plenty of Police 870's out there and they are more than up to the job. If that's what you have you just need to learn how to run the gun so you don't get bit by the things I mention above. It can be done and there are plenty of guys and girls who can. I've seen hundreds in my Shotgun Classes at Front Sight.

But that said, IMHO the Mossberg is a Superior Tactical Shotgun..

Randy

[HWooldridge]

OK I just found this thread so I will inject my .02 into the conversation. I have 3 M500's all set up as Tactical Guns. I have one Ithaca M37 which was my first shotgun.

The Ithaca was made in 1940 and was recently refurbished and restocked. It is NICE! But it is not a Tactical Gun by any means! Mine has a Cutts Compensator with all the choke tubes. The reason I say it is not a Tactical Gun is because there is no way to single load the thing without just stuffing a round in the magazine and cycling the action. You can't Ejection Port load one. You almost can, but it is not easy to do. It is best to not run one dry during a fight, you have to be loading the magazine constantly as that is the only way you can keep the gun firing.
Mine also doesn't have a Disconnector in the trigger group so it will slam fire which is a pain since I was taught to trap the trigger on every shot. It is hard to shoot Skeet with for that reason. I am getting the trigger group updated to the post 1975 configuration with the disconnector soon. It handles so nice it is criminal, and it looks really nice! see pics below.

The reason it has downward ejection is because JMB designed it as his "Duck Gun" that ejected spent shells down into the boat as opposed to over the side.!

As far a Tactical Pump Action Shotguns go, IMHO Mossberg has the top guns out there. That's why the Army buys them!

The only gun you can really compare them to, are Rem 870's and the 870's have some problems that aren't readily noticeable until you start running one in an intense training environment or a class where you are shooting hundreds of rounds in a day. Then they show up big time.

First: the Mberg has the Safety on the top of the receiver which makes the gun Ambi..
Second: the Mberg has the bolt release behind the trigger guard so you don't have to move your trigger finger to operate it. You use your middle finger.
Third: the 870 has a bump on the lifter which gets in the way of port loading the gun. If the slide is moved forward even 1/4" the lifter pops up and blocks the Ejection Port. The reason for this I was told, is when you are laying on your side under a car and you rack the slide the new round doesn't fall out on the ground. I don't do that very often so I can cover the port with my strong hand and not lose the round, or lay on my left side so the round doesn't fall out.
Fourth: the Mberg has Dual Extractors and Op Rods.
Fifth: the Ejection Port on the Mberg is larger than the 870 and thus easier to get rounds into during single loading.

The Aluminum Receiver is not an issue at all as everything that matters as far as the gun's strength is made of steel and all the Receiver does is hold it all together. If it wasn't safe and serviceable the Army would have never bought them.

These are all real considerations, that will matter when it really counts. That said,,, there are plenty of Police 870's out there and they are more than up to the job. If that's what you have you just need to learn how to run the gun so you don't get bit by the things I mention above. It can be done and there are plenty of guys and girls who can. I've seen hundreds in my Shotgun Classes at Front Sight.

But that said, IMHO the Mossberg is a Superior Tactical Shotgun..

Randy
Beautiful 37 you have there - I have a 20 ga with a Polychoke. Made in the 1960’s but it’s basically brand new; I doubt it had two boxes of shells through it when it came into my possession. It’s my primary dove gun.

[nhithaca]

Randy, I'm not so sure JMB designed the 20 gauge Remington 17 (direct predecessor to the Ithaca 37) as a duck gun. Its generally accepted that at that time duck guns were almost always 12 or 10 gauge long barrel designs. Being a great admirer of both the Ithaca 37 and JMB, I would be very interested in where that information came from.

We may never really know the reason for the bottom ejection design for the Model 17/37, but my theory is that the marketing people at Remington wanted a 20 gauge gun to compete with the Winchester Model 12 and to complement the existing Model 10 (and later Model 29 both with bottom ejection) that they were already cataloging. And being the design genius that he was, JMB came up with a very long lived and simple design, still in production. Like I said, just a theory.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Randy, I'm not so sure JMB designed the 20 gauge Remington 17 (direct predecessor to the Ithaca 37) as a duck gun. Its generally accepted that at that time duck guns were almost always 12 or 10 gauge long barrel designs. Being a great admirer of both the Ithaca 37 and JMB, I would be very interested in where that information came from.

We may never really know the reason for the bottom ejection design for the Model 17/37, but my theory is that the marketing people at Remington wanted a 20 gauge gun to compete with the Winchester Model 12 and to complement the existing Model 10 (and later Model 29 both with bottom ejection) that they were already cataloging. And being the design genius that he was, JMB came up with a very long lived and simple design, still in production. Like I said, just a theory.

It came from the book on the "The Life of John Moses Browning." When he designed that gun the locals were starting to get fed up with paper shotshells floating around in the Great Salt Lake. And there were lots of them as the Duck Season was a popular thing since the Salt Lake is a major stop on the flyway south. JMB liked shooting ducks, and so his answer to the problem was that gun. Why else would he deviate from the existing practice of side ejection. These are the only conventional shotguns ever made that have bottom ejection.

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

You know, last month I read (audible) "The guns of John Browning". There is great detail on why and how his Winchester 93/97 came about, then the automatic/auto-5, and finally the model 12. Then there is the breakup from Winchester, going to FN and Remington. I don't recall ever once hearing about any bottom eject pump action. Some internet research shows very little in the way of why he chose to design the Remington model 17 as a bottom eject. I did find that the Remington model 10 came first, and was designed as a bottom eject by John Pedersen. It could be as simple as nhithaca says, Remington asked Browning to design a smaller counterpart. It would make sense, being as the later Ithaca 37 became the lightest pump actions available.

I have zero experience with the model 10 or 17. In looking at disassembly videos, the model 10 obviously has a lot of inspiration from the Winchester 1897. The model 17 wins hands down for simplicity of manufacture, but the model 10 is a very cool looking design I have never looked into before. It looks like it could possibly solve one of the 17's, and later Ithaca 37's biggest flaw.

[nhithaca]

megasupermagnum
I'm not sure as to what it is you are referring to about the 17/37"s biggest flaw. If it is the difficulty in single loading direct to chamber then the Model 10 fails terribly. There happens to be a nearly 60 minute you-tube video solely on the Model 10 and they clearly state that the gun is nearly impossible to single load. As I stated before, we were taught on a Model 17 using single loading to shoot clay pigeons because my father did not believe in handing a new shooter a fully loaded gun (at least at first). With practice, it became second nature. That and he was cheap when it came to using up precious shot shells and he didn't want us to be taking second shots!!!

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK just so you know, It is possible to single load a M37, however it is not easy. I played with it one day until I figured it out but it requires a lot of concentration and is not a viable way to single load under stress.

You have to Eject the spent round and then move the slide forward slightly so the lifter goes up out of the way. Then you can get a round up into the receiver far enough to introduce it into the chamber then close the bolt. If you move the slide too far forward you can't get a shell in front of the bolt, and have to fiddle with it to go ahead.

You are better off just loading into the magazine and cycling the action, or better yet not running the gun dry in the first place!

My gun was made in 1940, so it has no disconnector in the trigger group so it will slam fire. Since I have been taught to trap the trigger on every gun I shoot this becomes a problem when shooting Skeet Doubles. I don't want to try to learn a special operation for only one gun and it would bleed over into all the rest when I didn't want it to. The M37 was updated in 1975 to include a disconnector to prevent this. My trigger group is going to Ithaca for this mod soon. Maybe today!

Randy

[jaguarxk120]

I have a couple of later Model 37's, the pump fire feature is not there on my later models.
When holding the trigger back and operating the action, the hammer will follow the bolt
as it goes into lockup.
Would like to know how Ithaca puts a disconnector into the trigger group.

[Rapier]

M-12 riot barrel, extended tubes, a real hopper and chopper with 00 or 000. You just load the extended tube, put it on your hip, pull trigger and and pump, Makes one real brush chopper.

[Texas by God]

I was playing Rambo with my dad's model 37 slam firing it. The top extractor broke and it was a LONG "4to 6 weeks" to get it in the mail from Ithaca, put it in and test it so I'd quit getting the hairy eye from Dad!

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[megasupermagnum]

M-12 riot barrel, extended tubes, a real hopper and chopper with 00 or 000. You just load the extended tube, put it on your hip, pull trigger and and pump, Makes one real brush chopper.

How did you extend the magazine on a model 12?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have a couple of later Model 37's, the pump fire feature is not there on my later models.
When holding the trigger back and operating the action, the hammer will follow the bolt
as it goes into lockup.
Would like to know how Ithaca puts a disconnector into the trigger group.

The late model (post 1975) parts fit right in the trigger housing in place of the existing parts. Or so I'm told.

Randy

[jaguarxk120]

Yes, but what parts are different or added??

[W.R.Buchanan]

Obviously there is a Disconnector or Trigger and probably a different Hammer. It only costs $75 so it can't be to much

It really doesn't matter because they won't sell you the parts. You have to send your trigger group to them for the mod.

Randy

[M-Tecs]

How did you extend the magazine on a model 12?

You don't unless it's custom.

A buddy has a very nice M12 Trench Gun. I want to shoot it but that will never happen since he won't shoot it either. It has the bayonet and it's 95%. He was offered 5K for it and he would not sell it. https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/winchester-model-12-trench-gun-preview/

[HawkEyeEarl]

I have had some Mossbergs in various gauges over the years. They work.

I had several very early Ithaca 37s made in the first year or two of production. They were the smoothest pumps I have ever used. Light and smooth and pretty. I liked them.

I have had many Remington 870s from early blue wing masters to police magnums to special fields. I still use a special field.

I have used Winchester 1897s and model 12s. I like these, especially the model 12. I like their looks. I still use a model 12. I would not say the 1897 is smooth. It is tough and is dependable and I am used to it. It is the first shotgun I ever used that was not a single barrel or double barrel that I ever used as a youngster.

I guess there are several bests in there. Some gone and some I have kept.

[Bigslug]

The 870 shell lifter never blocks the open action. It can be up in the front of the ejection port but if you pus the new shell in the port by pushing the back end in first like you are supposed to, it goes right in pushing the lifter down and out of the way. Trying to shove a shell up into the chamber from a bottom eject gun is not the easiest nor fastest way to chamber load a shotgun. 870 or mossberg 500.I prefer the 870 mostly because as a range master for a Dept of Corrections, it was the gun we used and I am very familiar with it and have a lot of training and range time with it. I worked at three different prisons and each had 5 or 6 870s. Two or three were used for yearly requals by every officer in the prision and had a lot of buckshot and slugs ran through them. In my 20 years in corrections, I never saw one fail. Can you make one malfunction? Yes, the easiest way is to put a round in backwards, and yes I have seen it happen.

I don't like a safety on top of the action. As a Range Master I like to be able to tell quickly whether the safety is on or off when I'm training or qualifying someone. The top safetys are kind of hard to tell compared to the push through safety.

For a hunting shot gun little of this matters as there is no hurry to get the gun firing or reloaded.

Always interesting to hear the the experiences of my counterparts. For me, I really liked the 870 until I spent years armoring their solid-state triggers and shell latches, and trying to teach folks without much of a gun background how to run it, and that's the familiarity that's bred the contempt.

AH YES. . .Backwards-loaded shells! They lock up an 870 quite nicely. They'll probably do the same for any other gun (i.e.Model 12) with a flappy style shell carrier that springs downward as soon as you release your thumb off the shell. The shell stop doesn't know which way the round is facing, and it'll grab the round just like it's supposed to. Only problem is now the carrier can't elevate with the front half of the reversed shell sticking out in it's path. Only way to clear it is to reach in round the carrier with a screwdriver or some other pokey thing and trip the shell latch clear of the rim. As an aside, those spring-down carriers are really good at pinching your gloves on a reload.

The Mossberg's elevated carrier doesn't suffer from this. A backwards round will either fall straight out when the gun is cycled, or you can give it a grab and yank. A '97 Winchester is similarly open-bottomed, and the later ones with the external shell latch actuator buttons would make short work of that problem.

The cross-bolt safeties in my experience give left handers fits, and a lot of righties can't seem to grasp which is the correct way to push it for the desired function. The tang mounts seem a little more intuitive - - push it toward the threat or in the direction the bullets go to fire; back away from the threat to safe it.

The action release up at the front of the trigger guard has horrified me more than once when folks go reaching around all over the trigger guard area looking for it. Put it behind the trigger and you can leave your index finger in place along the receiver and open the gun with the middle finger.

So yeah. . .with a skilled operator, I don't care about brand too much, but my preferences have been largely shaped by seeing what happens when you attach guns to those humans for whom anything without a detachable mag and a semi auto action is like tech dropped from an alien spacecraft. The all run great when you do things right. It all comes down to which is more resistant to things done wrong.

[atr]

my vote.....20ga. Ithaca 37

[agcannon]

I'm not much of a shotgun guy. I don't hunt, I have a mossberg 500 12 gauge for home defense. 20' barrel, and interchangeable choke tubes. keep a full choke tube in it and 00 buck.

The only other pump I've had was a winchester 1300 turkey gun I inherited from my Dad. gave it to my nephew since he hunts. seemed a little tighter than the mossberg.

The mossberg is great for what I need a shotgun for, I would prefer a 500 in 20 gauge as I'm getting older

[jaguarxk120]

Randy, if you send your trigger group in for mod's,
please make sure you will get your original parts back!

[Fishman]

The Ithaca 37's in the featherlights are good for the weights. They are the lightest pump actions I know of. Besides that, there are good reasons they are just about gone from memory. I'm a lefty, and the model 37 is one of the worst pump actions for left handers there is. The safety is in a horrible spot, and the slide release isn't that much better. It's a bottom eject, and port loading is not possible. I'd like a featherlight in 16 gauge, but other than that, they don't have a lot going for them.

The Remington 870 has a great track record, and a long one at that. There's upgrades to over come their deficiencies like the poor safety placement, and smaller magazines. Not much can be done about the shell lifter though, and if you ever have a shell get under there, you are SOL. I've seen it happen multiple times.

The Mossberg 500 also has a great track record, and fairly long. The safety is in a great place, the slide release is in a great place. There's really no way to jam one bad to where you need to take it apart like you do an 870. They are reasonably easy to load quickly, have a decent magazine capacity, especially for the 590 variant. You can use stock shims to adjust fit. You can't do that on an 870. There's really not a lot I can think of wrong with the 500's. A more streamlined loading port for quickly loading is about all I can imagine. Maybe a one-piece trigger group for tool-less disassembly.

The Benelli Nova has two things going for it. The first is that it is by far the easiest gun to disassemble that I have experienced. No tools at all, you use the mag cap to push two action pins out, and that's it. The trigger group is one-piece, the bolt another. The other thing the Nova has is that it is by far the easiest to load quickly. The 3 1/2" action is long, but this allows large loading and ejection ports. Also the trigger group, and shell lifter are designed to funnel shells right into the magazine. The guys who load quickly like 3-gun shooters all agree the Nova is the easiest pump action to load. The super nova is the same thing, but has a removable butt stock. I'm not really sure why they use a polymer coated frame. Everything else on the gun is steel, including the frame itself. I think the Nova could be improved by using an aluminum frame, not that the Nova is bulky, but it doesn't look all that great. It looks like burnt marshmallow. The safety position of the Nova isn't bad, not my first choice, but better than a Ithaca or Remington. The magazine capacity is pretty bad, only holding 4. Magazine extensions exist, although everything Benelli is expensive. The rotating bolt is unique for shotguns, but does nothing good or bad for the design.

The Winchester 12 I have little experience with. The slide release is in a great spot. The safety is in front of the trigger guard, which I normally don't mind, but the model 12 is tucked up so tight that you barely get any purchase. As a left hander, it is very bad. The shell lifter is the goofiest setup I've ever seen, a shell pops out of the magazine, and topping off is that much harder. It's basically a clays competition gun, I would never choose one for anything else. Even for hunting, the model 97 is superior. That all sounds bad, but that's only my experience, and the model 12 obviously has the trophies to show it is the sport shooting king.

The Winchester 1897 I think is vastly underappreciated. Everyone is always looking at the hammer, but that is such a non-issue. Maybe it's because I was raised on hammer guns. It's old school, half cock is your safety. I love an exposed hammer as much as I love a tang safety. Especially for new shooters, I can visually tell the state the gun is in. What the 1897 brings to the table is a super trim frame and a giant ejection port. This is one area the Mossberg 500 could improve is to have a giant ejection port like this. The shell lifter also doubles as the locking bolt, which is a unique design, but it works really well. The shell lifter is shaped to make loading very easy. The trigger guard is the only thing keeping it from being as good as the Benelli Nova. Port loading this is a dream come true. The capacity is decent, holding 6 in the magazine, which is good even by todays standards, but it can not be extended beyond that. Both the model 12 and model 97 share a similar barrel setup, which is very rugged, but is outdated today. Some complain about the weight, and I have no idea why. My Mossberg 500 with 30" barrel weighs 7 pounds 13 ounces. My Winchester 97 with 30" barrel weighs 7 pounds 15 ounces. Put different stocks on the Mossberg, and they would probably be the same. Unloading the 97 is kind of fun, you can push the two buttons, and the magazine empties. The biggest detriment to the 97 is the slide release. Fine for a right hander, a little harder left hand. I have big hands, and I've never even been close to being touched by the bolt coming back, but sometimes people say it happens. That's the price of a super trim and slim frame. The only real knock I can think of is that the action is stiffer than a modern design. That heavy shell lifter/bolt lock combined with the hammer cocking make it feel heavy at first, then silky smooth. It's a unique feel, but not something I'd prefer for fast shooting.

The Browning BPS is a little different. It's a hunting gun through and through, but not a cheap one. The safety is in a great spot. The slide release is ok, but not great. Fine for a hunting gun. It's a bottom eject, so port loading is impossible. The loading port is ok, about like a Mossberg 500. The magazine holds 5, which is average. I've shot both a 12 and 10 gauge version, and never witnessed an issue. The action is nice and smooth. The design seems to have changed slightly. Browning currently lists the 12 gauge at 7 pounds 12 ounces. This was not always the case. The 12 gauge I shot is likely from the 90's, and was the 10 gauge frame. It is about 10 1/2 pounds. This might sound dumb, but it isn't for a waterfowl gun. I'll argue the Browning BPS is the best pump waterfowl gun ever made due to the weight. Along with that the 10 gauge version is the same weight, which is quite trim as far as 10 gauges go. Lighter than any semi-auto, with the exception of the gold-10 light.

There's a whole bunch of different ones today, but mostly they are a clone of an 870 or 500. As far as I'm concerned, the Nova is the last pump to come to market that actually did something different, and that must have been 1996-98 somewhere in there.

I agree with everything you said about the Benelli Nova. It does handle like a 2x4, but it is a well engineered gun, and for whatever reason I shoot it well. The ease of disassembly is really nice. And it will shoot some ridiculously powerful ammo all the way down to the wimpiest loads.

[megasupermagnum]

I agree with everything you said about the Benelli Nova. It does handle like a 2x4, but it is a well engineered gun, and for whatever reason I shoot it well. The ease of disassembly is really nice. And it will shoot some ridiculously powerful ammo all the way down to the wimpiest loads.

I wouldn't quite describe the Nova handling like that. The Benelli Nova is the first shotgun I ever bought with my own money. It is one gun that will never leave me. I hunted with it exclusively for a long time. Today I would never buy one, the Super nova is better, and I have no idea why the Nova was ever made without a removable stock to begin with. I have never looked, but I would imagine you can buy shims like the Benelli SBE's to adjust fit. The overall feel of the gun is not much different from an 870 or 500. I have shot some ridiculously powerful ammo, too many 3 1/2"ers. One problem I found with the Nova design is that if you don't have a good hand on the pump, it will eject the round so fast under recoil that it will not send out the next round from the magazine. I believe all pump actions are capable of this, I've definitely had it happen with the Mossberg's, but the Nova in particular is the most prone to it. It is only a theory, but I believe what happens is the slide comes back so fast that it hits the shell stop, then the cartridge interrupter before the shell has even moved. The more recoil you have, the more this will become an issue, especially late season when you have gloves on. So in that sense, I don't think the Nova "handles" super strong loads all that well. No better than a Mossberg 535 anyway, and seemingly worse. The 3 1/2" 12 gauge is kind of ridiculous anyway. I just don't shoot them anymore.

[Fishman]

I've not experienced that but I generally shoot the heavies in the Nova I rigged up with a Benelli recoil reducer. It helps with the recoil, but not with the handling. I have another as a backup I like it so much. My first gun was a Mossberg 500, and it has accounted for all manner of animals, mostly ducks and geese.

Best handling pump gun I own is a Remington 870 special field. It has a shortened mag tube and a 21" barrel (as I recall). It's not much use in a duck blind though due to the muzzle blast. It is a fairy wand compared to the Nova.

I think with shotguns the one you shoot the best is the one you shoot the most.

[35 Rem]

I'd have to choose the Ithaca 37. That was my 1st shotgun. Got it new with my High School graduation money back in 1978. I looked at all the other pump guns at the time and the light weight slick action and short receiver won me over. I also own a Mossberg 500, Maverick 88 and Browning BPS. I want to like the BPS being that it's also a bottom eject gun like the Ithaca but the extra size and weight make the two guns nothing alike in actual hunting. My Mossbergs are purely home defense guns so they really aren't in the running for a "favorite". When my Ithaca was new it was amazingly slick and the only other pump gun I've ever felt that compared are some old Model 12's. Now my Ithaca 37 story isn't without a negative though. While I loved how the guns carry, shoot, look and feel I have had several issues with mine. For many years I kept every primer box I ever loaded so I knew exactly how many shells my Model 37 had fired. Somewhere around 12,000 or thereabout, the forend rod pin sheared off from the forend tube. I took it to the local gun shop and they barazed it back on for me rather than putting new pins in it. It never felt as slick again after that but still felt as good or better than most other brand pumps so i was happy. I ended up shooting that gun until somewhee around 16,000 or maybe 18,000 shells were fired through it. Along the way the extractor springs had to be swapped out which isn't unexpected for that much use. Also the pin in the slide that connects the forend rod to the slide broke and had to be replaced. The vent rib broke into through the pin hole on the rear post that holds it to the barrel. About 3/8" fel off the rear of the vent rib. Also the little red front sight fiber came out of the front site along the way. About the time I had reached this point I had a chance to buy a Model 37 T from a friend and I jumped at it. In spite of the gun being called a "Trap gun" it really wasn't much different than a standard model 37 except that it had nicer wood and a brass front bead rather than the "fiber optic" sight along with a middle bead. I pretty much switched over to shooting it from that time forward and so far have had zero breakages. But then I probably fired less than 10,000 shots in this gun since my shotgunning opportunities slowed way down over the years. I hear people say that you can't single load an Ithaca 37 but that's not true. I shot trap with mine every week for years and it's easy once you get used to it. All you have to do is pump the slide back, lift the shell up against the bottom of the follower and use the other hand to ease the slide forward. Remember the follower has to pass the bolt every shot anyhow so the shell doesn't have to be on top of it when loading. It's easy to do without even looking down once you get the feel.

AT one time I was wanting to buy a Model 12 for the durability but they were always so expensive and money was always short for me in those days so I never got around to it. Now I shoot so little that I see no point in trying to get something more durable than my Ithaca's. Nothing else feels right in my hands so what good is durability if you can't shoot it?

Funny story about pump shotguns in closing. Maybe 8 or 10 years ago I got an urge to get a side by side 12 gauge and got one of the CZ Ringnecks. I liked the look, single trigger and fact that it was an extractor only gun so I could keep up with my empties. Well, I had shot pump guns exclusively for so many years that I found it absolutely impossible to make that double gun fire twice in the dove field. When a 2nd shot was required I'd jerk back firecely on the forearm and say bad words every time. My mind couldn't accept that any shotgun could fire twice by simply pulling the trigger again. :) I'm getting the hand of it somewhat now but still don't feel natural.

[W.R.Buchanan]

35 Rem: With as many rounds thru those guns as you've shot, I wouldn't think any other Pump Guns would have much appeal.


Just sayin'

Randy

[tacofrank]

Remington 870 12 gauge, Ithaca 37 16 ga. , and Winchester model 12, and 97 in 12 ga. In this order.
TF

[RU shooter]

Little late to this post but I’ll throw my odd duck pick in the mix . It’s a Remington 17A , It’s an old family gun from my dads uncle . Only made them in 20 ga and she’s light and shoulders wonderfully . For those unaware it’s very similar to the Ithaca 37 in form and function . Just a sweet ole gun from the early 1900’s. My very close second pic is my 20 ga win model 12

[Jedman]

Remington M 17A’s are great guns. I had one back in the 70’s that was in really rough shape but it ran smooth as silk. I used to shoot skeet with it and it was sweet shooter. I don’t know why I ever sold it ?

Jedman

[Tripplebeards]

My favorite is a wing master 870 with a 30” barrel. Wish I still had one. Traded it off for a 10 gauge browning gold years ago. I am currently down to one pump. An Ithaca deer slayer smooth bore 12 gauge. Got it last year from a buddy. Had a cracked stock like most. I repaired and refinished it. It’s a hoot to shoot when you hold down the trigger and pump away! It has the same fancy scroll work as the old wingmasters and better wood. I’d like an updated barrel with screw in choke tubes for it so I can use it for turkey hunting. I’ve won and traded off browning and Winchester pumps never pulling the triggers on them. I won a benelli super nova back in 2000’. About when they first came out. I traded it off within 5 minutes to a co worker for a NIB Beretta silver mallard and $200 out of pocket. I would have liked the new 3.5” chambering in the Nova but the bolt face looked like a caveman machined it and was loose as a goose when locked in battery. My employer got them at a discount for $199 at them time and gave them to us for a bonus. Glad I traded because the silver mallard is my favorite shotgun to date. Picked up a NIB Beretta pintail from 1987 for $300 about 10 years ago so it would have a little brother. Lol.sorry, I know this is a pump thread. I got out of the pumps at the time WI started giving extra turkey tags for the same seasons. I got busted a few times cycling the loud, loose, rattling, pump to fill the 2nd tags. A semi auto, or SxS, I just sit motionless (for the most part minus the recoil) and pull the trigger. I have three Remington 7600’s if they count! A 30-06, 35 Whelen, and 35 Rem. My goto opening day deer guns every year.

[todd9.3x57]

altho i don't own it, my friend's cousin has a winchester m97 in 12ga. i was about 13 or 14 yo when i first seen it and it was the gun to use.

my Mossberg m500 in 12ga is just a plain workhorse gun. i've killed small game, racoons, foxes and such, with it a a remington heavy game load of #6. doves were loaded with #7 1/2.

[Stick_man]

My 2 favorite pump shotguns are the Ithaca 37 and the Browning BPS. The first shotgun I ever bought was a M37 in 12ga. Loved that gun and the only issue I ever had with it was the chamber was only for 2 3/4" shells. Still killed lots of ducks with it. I bought it because of the bottom ejection port. Hunting ducks from blinds with a partner, one of us was always getting hit with the other's empty shell being ejected. The bottom eject port solved that issue. I later found myself to be an impoverished college student and ended up selling the Ithaca to a friend. A short time later, I was able to pick up a BPS with a 3" chamber and interchangeable chokes, making it a much better waterfowl gun than the Ithaca was. As finances improved (and about 20 years later), I found a 20ga M37 that would fit the bill for my upland game hunting and recreational skeet and trap shooting while being a little easier on the shoulder as I near retirement age. I love both guns and will probably hang onto both until I die. As a lefty shooter, the side ejection port guns just don't cut it for me.

[lightload]

Remington 870

[Patrick L]

The 870 is as dear to my heart as any gun can be. My first gun that was my own was my standard weight 20 gauge Wingmaster. It was a Christmas present from my dad in 1981. I have owned all 5 gauges. They are my favorite.

That said, a Model 12 is a masterpiece of machine work. I've never owned one, but someday I hope to. I do own 1 Ithaca 37, and they are a fine specimen of gun making too.



The Remington products of the post war era are simply some of the best guns this country ever made. They were very high quality, yet they were more affordable due to the production economies Remington learned to utilize during the war. Lasted till maybe the 80s, then Big Green just gave it all away. Bean counters bought the company, and lights out!

[sniper]

Remington 870, Browning BPS and Ithaca 37, in that order. All 20 gauge.:-)

[Hays47]

Extensive use of all pump shotguns. Smoothest action has to be the model 12. Only factory made pump that fell open on its own when release button was pushed. Although I was lights out at trap with it. I could not use it for hunting. As I was forever trying to find the safety. Cut my teeth on a Remington Model 11 20 gauge . Although it was an auto. Its safety is located behind the trigger.

I can use a tang safety but still not as fast. Overall I would rate the Remington 870 the best. Had one in every gauge they ever made. They all performed and nary a problem with any of them. The 28 gauge I had at one time. Was the prettiest 870 Iever owned. The wood on it was fantasic. I found it at a K-mart on clearance and could not believe no one pounced on it before. The only shotgun I was as with as the old model 11 mentioned here. Used for grouse, rabbit and pheasant. It was deadly on all three.

[lightload]

I prefer the 870 as a sporting shotgun. Mossbergs are good too. I have had three Mossberg pumps that had defective shell latches. The company sent replacements.

[Iowa Fox]

My shotgun days are pretty slim anymore. For me the Model 12 Winchester will always have a soft spot. That's what we had at the farm when I was at home and the pheasants were thick. In 1967-69 Uncle Sam issued me a M-12 Riot to use with the 1911 that I carried.

[M-Tecs]

My shotgun days are pretty slim anymore. For me the Model 12 Winchester will always have a soft spot. That's what we had at the farm when I was at home and the pheasants were thick. In 1967-69 Uncle Sam issued me a M-12 Riot to use with the 1911 that I carried.

The Model 12 is 110 years old and the 1911 is 111 years old. Both have acquitted themselves very well over the years. While they are not state of the art they will do just fine as they have for the past 110 plus years. If the only shotgun and pistol that I could own was the Model 12 and the 1911 I would not feel under gunned or handicapped in any way.

[762 shooter]

If someone said you can only have one pump shotgun. When it breaks you can't fix it.

870 Wingmaster.

762

[762 shooter]

If someone said you can only have one pump shotgun. When it breaks you can't fix it.

870 Wingmaster.

762

[2152hq]

My personal choices right now are a Remington Model 10T (Target) and a MArlin 43T (Trap)

Neither would likely make the 'Best of All Time List' but for me they are my favorites.
The MArlin is one of their hammerless designs and a complicated mechanism I will admit.
But I like it and the gun handles beautifully. Not the most robust design on the books and you'd better be able to do some repairs yourself
if you want to keep one of these guys working if you shoot them a lot. They are a puzzle to take a part and reassemble as well.

The Rem Model 10 has it's quirks,,maybe why I like it.
The 10T/ (Target means Vent Rib ) is a heavy shotgun but functions smoothly dispite claims to the contrary.
Single loading can be done as mentioned but most usually jamthemup by getting the shell caught under the guns very strong ejector before they get it into the chamber.
Better to mag load and then chamber. Clay Targets don't shoot back so it's not an issue for me.
The all-in-one piece mfg bbl & vent rib is a wonder for it's time IMO. The Model 17, 31, 29 and 11 all used the same one piece mfg for their VR as well.

The Winchester 97 is a favorite as well. I'd take that any day as a one gun does all choice.
I have a couple of them and theyget used all the time.

I have never owned a Model 12 personally. They just never did much for me. I have repaired, restored and upgraded a ton of them in the last 50yrs. Great design and great gun. Just a personal thing that they don't draw me to them.

I have an affinity for the lesser known models.
The Stevens 520 is a favorite. I was on a 520 kick for many yrs and had many of those in 12,16 & 20ga's.

Right now I have only a Stevens Model 200,,the 20ga 3" chambered pump from around 1912.
Another interesting piece, kind of rare and not many mfg'd. Very different and not often seen.
The Best?,,Hardly..
But it's in my circle of interest.

[jrayborn]

I really like my Stevens 520's. Got four 12's and a slick 20. All take down. Classics.

[Dio]

I've owned Remington, Winchester, Ithaca and mossberg.
I'd stick with the 870, just not an express

[Randy Bohannon]

Benelli, 12 ga. Pump 3” chamber for when serious shotgunning needs to be done, BPS 20 ga. .breaks down fits in a day pack I use it for Grouse in the mountains while fishing.

[Geezer in NH]

I don't shoot 3 inch over 20 gauge. 2 3/4 Savage, Sears, Hi standards one rail pumps are great values. When I had my shop I bought as many the Big Auction houses had at bids of 20-30 dollars each. 8-10 per auction. Cleaned them up cut barrels to 19-20 inches, re-blued, beads put on sold out of the shop for $175.00 all sold in first 2 weeks.

870 and Mossberg 500's were sold for $250 and up.

I have 1 870, 2- 20ga Mossberg's and 4 of the non-tacticool 12's all place about with ammo about the farm.

[doghunter]

IMO, the Winchester model 12 will always be #1. The Ithaca 37 was a nice well made gun, as is the old 870 Wingmaster. Current production, the Browning BPS is #1 with everything else a distant second.

[6pt-sika]

Only thing I’d use a pump for would be the pump events at a Vintagers Sporting Event . I was hung up on Model 12’s and still think they’re a better gun . But I’m finding a well broke in 870 can be a good bit slicker . So I suppose I’d have to go with the 870 now .

[schutzen-jager]

for all around uses it's my Ithaca mdl. 37

[relics6165]

I shot skeet with a guy in Austin, TX (dang, was that really 40 years ago?) who owned probably 25 Winchester Model 12s (ribbed, engraved, two, three barrel sets, 28 gauge). One day I asked him what he considered the best pump shotgun, his reply was "Easy, the Remington 870". Twin action bars beat one action bar. I personally love the old 1960s 870s with the nickle lifter.

[6pt-sika]

I shot skeet with a guy in Austin, TX (dang, was that really 40 years ago?) who owned probably 25 Winchester Model 12s (ribbed, engraved, two, three barrel sets, 28 gauge). One day I asked him what he considered the best pump shotgun, his reply was "Easy, the Remington 870". Twin action bars beat one action bar. I personally love the old 1960s 870s with the nickle lifter.

I shot skeet competitively about thirtyfive years ago . There were three fellows one of which I very good friends with that shot 870’s in all gauges . They all had it down where only four hulls a round would hit the ground (the first shot at doubles). Back then the clubs were real sticklers about not picking up hulls that hit the ground .Well at registered shoots that is .

[autogun]

Hmmm. I agree twin bars feel better. But I still pick a Model 12 because it points better for me than my 870. My pick for worst is a Win model 1200. My brother bought one and it unlocked itself and opened after each shot. I sent it back to Winchester. they sent it back and said nothing wrong with it. It opened by itself for that fast second shot.

[405grain]

304633 I carried a Remington 870 when I was in the Navy. It was a nice shotgun, but the one I'm saving my nickles and dimes for is a Mossberg 590 retrograde. I like all the features and the mechanics of this shotgun.

[sledgehammer001]

I'll have to stick with my Browning BPS 12ga. Smoothest pump gun I've ever fired. And she points like a dream.

[Jeff Michel]

Ithaca 37 and Marlin 120

[375RUGER]

BPS, never fails.

[Krh1326]

Love, love , love my Mossy 500 Sherrif’s Model.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The 12 ga has stood behind my bedroom door loaded with 7.5 shot for over 24 years. Fully loaded, 4 in the tube, one in chamber, but with the action half open. No way it can go off my accident. You would have to push the safety over, push the forearm forward and pull the trigger to get it to fire. But it can be done in less than a second. Safe, secure, yet instantly ready at need.

If I might offer a suggestion as to the storage of your house gun. "Cruiser Ready" is the standard way to keep a shotgun at the ready. This is the way that the Police keep their Shotguns at the Ready in their cars.

Magazine Full, Bolt Closed on Empty Chamber, Safety Off. All that needs to be done is "rack the slide" and you are ready to go.

No thinking, and no forgetting to dump the safety which is the most common mistake made.

Same set up for a Semi Auto Gun. Rack the Bolt and you are up and running!

When mounting the gun from the ready with the safety on,,, I always say to myself,,, "Safety First!" I can't tell you the number of times I have forgotten it.

Note: the gun won't fire with the safety engaged and you may not have time for a second attempt after you figure out why the gun didn't go off!!!.

Randy

[Bmi48219]

Hmmm. I agree twin bars feel better. But I still pick a Model 12 because it points better for me than my 870. My pick for worst is a Win model 1200. My brother bought one and it unlocked itself and opened after each shot. I sent it back to Winchester. they sent it back and said nothing wrong with it. It opened by itself for that fast second shot.

Agree on the model 12 as top pick. At 16 y.o. I purchased a 1200. Sears, $69.99. They usually ran a back cover ad in gun magazines, picture of a model 1200 clamped in a vise with muzzle at 30 degree angle up. Caption read “MACHINED GUN”. It pointed and tracked nearly as well as a 12 but I could never get used to the pop open immediately after shooting. Half the time I’d wind up locking it up instead of ejecting the hull. Sold it and kept the model 12.

[Texas by God]

I'll stand by the 870, this past week I've been duck hunting on the ponds. Twice this week I've made a triple on flushed ducks! My 870 Express Laminated 28" modified. Operating it is muscle memory. When season is over, the mag plug comes out and the riot barrel goes back on.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[jaysouth]

I have owned and hunted with Ithacas and Win M-12. When I took up trap shooting, I bought a Rem 870TC. Later I bought a 26" skeet barrel to put on it. After about 20,000 skeet and trap loads, I can load, shoot and pump an 870 in my sleep. For hunting I use the 870 field grade that my father won in a duck calling contest in the late 50s. I put a cutts compensator on the barrel and use if for ducks and upland. When I wear out both my 870s, I will find a used one.

[Streetwalker]

Ithaca Model 37 or a Marlin 120..all the way!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Can you Port Load the gun ? That way you could rip of a few more shots and get 6 instead of three?:holysheep

See the: "What I did to my shotguns" thread.

Randy

[Texas by God]

But three is all I want to clean at once!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[olafhardt]

A Savage 24. 22lr over 20ga. It is not a pump but I don't like pumps.

[flint45]

I have 870’s,model 12’s a savage pump,and mossberg’sbut the best one I have is a 1970’s Winchester model 1200 with a winchoke barrel feeds like greased lighting every time and knocks birds out of the air.

[Finster101]

I have 870’s,model 12’s a savage pump,and mossberg’sbut the best one I have is a 1970’s Winchester model 1200 with a winchoke barrel feeds like greased lighting every time and knocks birds out of the air.

I have a 1200 with the Win-chokes as well. My Dad got it for my fourteenth birthday many years ago. Don't bird or rabbit hunt here in Florida so I can't think of the last time I shot it.

[Roosterbob]

I have singles, semis, O/Us, SxSs, and pumps. The pumps are for upland, casual clays, and some waterfowl. They are M37s and are 16ga. Nwork fine for me.
Bob

[Chena]

For general purposes a wood stocked 870 in 12 gauge with a selection of Remchokes.
For upland an Ithaca Featherlight in 16 gauge, modified. My experience with plastic stock
870s with “tactical” modifications is that, for me personally, they are ergonomically inferior to a wood stocked gun set up “slick” when used under pressure. Here I mean low volume real world use as opposed to high volume gun games, which I am admittedly ignorant about. If you can find one, and like the balance, I think an 870 Special Field with interchangeable chokes is the ultimate pump. Add a set of low profile fiber optic sights to the vent rib and it will do almost anything a smooth bore is capable of. I have owned two and foolishly sent both down the road.

[725]

I've had lots of 870's over the years. Still have a couple, but most have gone away. I love to hunt geese with an old Stevens 12 ga. pump. It's a beater but just about qualifies for the title of "Ol' Never Miss."

[Baltimoreed]

Here’s my two Model 12s that I built from damaged or modded field guns. A 1925 Riot [had a polychoke and a cracked stock] and a 1940 Trenchgun [had a short stock and a old reblue]. Love my M12s.

[smkummer]

1200/1300 Winchesters are so smooth. Winchester advertised them as speed pumps. I have never racked a smother pump shotgun.

[Rapier]

I have owned a few pump guns, shot with a few people that shot pump guns in clays matches. The Ithaca 12ga /20 is a good gun, the Win M-12 and the Remington 870 both older models are good guns. I prefer interchangeable chokes so would look for a nice 870 cut for or with mulpitle choke tubes. Last one I bought was a nice operating 20ga with a modified fixed choke barrel, that someone had rattle can painted. I got it cheap enough and refinished it.