Stuck J-Word in 25-20 WCF

[9.3X62AL]

During last week's range trip to get my butt kicked shooting cast boolits, I brought along the Marlin 25-20 to fire off some of the loads I have containing Speer 75 grain flatnoses. This has been a good bullet in this rifle, and my cast boolit work with this critter has centered around meeting or exceeding its accuracy shown with the Speers.

During the firing string, I heard a funny report and didn't see a berm impact. Hold everything. I lowered the lever and pulled the bolt, and sure enough--there's an obstructed bore. I set the rifle aside for later attention at home. Upon closer exam, the bullet was found to be about 3" forward of the boltface, classic position for a cartridge fired minus powder.

I've stuck a couple cast boolits in bores in the past, one each in a revolver and a rifle. No big thing--a close-fitting rod or wooden dowel drives them out without too much effort. NOT SO with this j-word critter--it refused to budge when pounded upon by the drive rod and a 15 oz hammer. Drive rod was a length of 7/32" music wire with a wrap of shipping tape.

Discussion was had with Buckshot, and he suggested penetrating oil like Break-Free CLP onto the bullet base, soaked for a time with muzzle down. Two hours later--no joy. Same story after an overnight soak. I ran this scenario past some guys on the chat room here, and got a few more ideas.

WHAT WORKED--Break-Free CLP on both ends of the bullet, heated the barrel area with a blow-dryer, and 2.5# cross-pin hammer. About 10 moderate whacks got the thing moving, and it came out pretty readily after that. I believe the heat exposure caused the penetrating oil to permeate the barrel wall/bullet jacket lodge area more readily, and the heavier driving element likely helped.

OPINIONS/CONCLUSIONS--This ammo was loaded on my Ponsness-Warren semi-progressive machine, and I have no doubt that the problem was no powder--caused either by failure to pour same on my part or bridged powder in the measure. The latter cause seems unlikely--the powder was IMR-4198, which runs very well through my RCBS Duo-Measure. So--operator headspace is the culprit. The time saved by use of the "faster" semi-progressive machine got used trying to dislodge this bullet, in other words. THANKFULLY, I was paying attention while firing, and didn't send another one down the barrel to meet the lodged bullet. At miminum, that would have "goose-egged" the barrel, and potentially cause injury.

Loading blocks exist for a very good reason.

To conclude, considering the force required to dislodge this stuck bullet, the power of a small rifle primer is pretty surprising. So too is the power produced by even a weak little caliber like the 25-20. A pretty good wake-up call for yours truly, and a reminder of the forces we are harnessing as we assemble and fire our loads.

[waksupi]

Al, thanks for the follow up. I believe there are only two kinds of people in the world, those who have, and those who are going to. Your post may well help someone else in the future.

Friends don't let friends shoot j#$%!# bullets!

[9.3X62AL]

Yeah, the evil redcoated pretenders!

An interesting factoid......there is not a lot of clearance between the rifling lands and the outer taped surface of the 7/32" music wire (which is VERY hard, I might add), but under the influence of repeated hammer strikes, bullet core metal swaged up around the drive rod and between the rod and bore wall. The bullet's formerly flat base is now domed out, too. Terrific forces at work, both starting that bullet in the normal way--and extracting it when things turn left.

[SharpsShooter]

Al,

I watched a PPC shooter once drive a HBWC out of the bore of his heav barrel model10 smith. He was shooting the 25yd barricade and we all heard a "pop..SQUEAK". The guy announced that he "had to go get his BOO-BOO stick". It sems he carrried a hardwood dowel just for this problem. He shoved it down the muzzle and began banging the end of it on a 4X4 post that supported the barricade. He was a big ol boy and it still took him several hefty whacks to dislodge the swaged wadcutter. Based on that, I'm not surprised that the J boolit was so tough to get out.

[Mk42gunner]

When I ran the Armory at NAS Fallon, I had one of the helo squadrons bring in an M60 barrel the had a ball round stuck about 4 inches into the bore. They had already tried a little hammer, so we used a two pounder. Once it broke loose it came out fairly easily, (could have been worn rifling from several thousand rounds). I don't remeber the bullet being deformed any though.

Robert

[swheeler]

Al; I've had a couple boolits stuck in the barrel of a revolver before. ignition problems with AA#9 in cold weather. I switched to mag primers and a firmer crimp which has rectified it so far. Very mild pop, some hissing, lots of unburned wet looking powder. I drove the stuck boolit back out with a 8 inch wooden dowel.I haven't stuck a jacket bullet -yet! I think your diagnosis is probably correct, missed charging a case. FWIW not too many months ago I loaded up about 2200 38 special on a single stage press, definately time consuming! I also put a ring in the barrel of a cheap 22 rev, had been out shooting it with a box of Rem Thunderbolts, that had bounced around in the glove box of my pickup for a couple years, noticed a couple really mild shots but kept shooting, when I cleaned it noticed the ring, all I could figure is I must have stuck a bullet and shot it out with the next, as I am sure there wasn't a ring before. I haven't shot any thunderbolts since!





Scooter

[StarMetal]

Scooter,

You reloading those 2000 rounds on a single press reminded me of something. Back when we were young, my best friend had a fallen out with his girlfriend. He locked himself in his reloading room for days and reloaded over 7000 38 specials on a Rockchucker. I remember the little bathroom size wastebasket he used for primers was half full of spend primers. Believe it or not he still has some of that original 7000 left.

Joe

[swheeler]

Joe; yes it definately goes on like an "allday sucker" I load 45acp with a friend on a Dillon SQ deal, a lot faster- guess I'm too oldschool- I just haven't been comfortable with any progressive. Many a long day has been spent yanking the handle on a mec jr, when you empty one 52 qt cooler of hulls move on to the next. I have threatened to get a progressive for shotgun and handgun and maybe 223 for several decades now! What the hay- if it ain't broke don't fix it!
Scot

[stocker]

Not having a progressive loader I have to ask:

If one case didn't get any powder is it possible you also have a case with a double charge in the same batch of reloads?

[9.3X62AL]

I'll freely admit that I'm a bit less comfy with the P-W machine after this little event. I will come up with some regimen to check for powder in cases while using this tool, you can bet on that confidently.

[Buckshot]

..........When I got the notion to load some cast lead in the 223 to 22RF level stuff I used the 43gr RN Lyman and Bullseye. The rifle was a 1992 Vintage M112 Savage single shot with a 26" bull barrel. I started out I think with 1.0gr doses going up in 0.1gr increments. I forget the charge I was up to, but I forgot to elevate the muzzle once and stuck a slug.

When I fired it I knew something was wrong as there was no little pop of a report and I couldn't see the boolit fly away as per usual looking through the scope. I immediately became aware my rifle seemed to have a tire going flat as it sat there with this HSSSSSSSSSSSssssssssssssssssss sound coming from the action.

A friend was at the next bench and I called him over, "Watch this" I said. I reached down with a couple fingers and flipped the bolt handle up. The bolt flew back making a little 'POP' as the cartridge cleared, which ejected just fine, my friend catching it in the air. The boolit was stuck about 4" from the muzzle.

I thought that was so cool! It always stuck with me. My grandfather had related how they started a big old Fairbanks-Morse hit or miss irrigation pump engine with a 22 blank in the cylilnder head. It all stood me in good stead once! My dad had bought one of those portable compressed air tanks from Pep boys or someplace. I though it was pretty dumb as you could buy those cans of Fix a FLat for a lot less money, and they took up so much less room.

Thinking about this other stuff I said, "You know what we should do?" So naturally he says no he has no idea awhat we should do. About what, and to what? I said we need to make a deal to weld to the side of that tank with a ball check valve in the tank. Then you could drop in one of those Remington Pow'r loads, screw on the cap and give it a whack to set it off, and there ya go. A nice tank full of compressed air.

He said well you make it and I'll come watch! Sounds feasable to me.

...................Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Back in my callow youth, I had one mould and a few sets of dies. The mould was the same 311316 Lyman 2 banger I have today. I also had, and still have, a rRemington R#4 Rolling Block that my Dad had converted to center fire from 32 RF Long. 32 S+W Long cases fit just fine in the corroded chamber. The load I was using was a miniscule amount of SR-7625. The lube was plain old wheel bearing grease. Thats all I had to use. So I loaded them up and they shot fine. I had a couple dozen rounds left and they sat for a few weeks. Then one day I go to shoot up the rest of them. Mind you I was shooting at dirt clods in a field and even when the boolit hit the impact was tough to see unless you dead centered a big one. Odd thing about grease- it tends to run a bit. You guessed it, I stuck 9 boolits in the barrel! Yeah-NINE. (Did I mention there may have been some adult type beverages involved? I don't do that anymore). The load only made a "phuuttd" sound when it was working so there wasn't much difference in the sound and smoke always rolled out the chamber too, so how was I to know? Yeah, I know I shoulda' known. Stupid. Didn't hurt that barrel at all, much less that "weak" action.

BTW- that was my last try at using real soft, runny lubes till Lee Liquid Frog Snot came along.

[johniv]

Yup J-bullets can be a bear to remove from a bbl. Only had 2 stick in a gun I was shootin one a boolit and one a J. The J slug stuck in the lead of the bbl and came out with mimimal force, the other (lead from an old rem 455 factory load) pushed out real easy. I think the way to use the progresive loaders is to try to set a light
(desk lamp is what I use ) where you can see the charge in the case as you put the boolit on said case. I load 45 on an old 450B so it is almost semi auto as you gotta prime , thro the charge, & place the boolit by hand. You cannot go as fast as the manufacture rates the loader , but you still have some control over what you are doing.
I had a friend who used to say the are 2 types of shooters in High power rifle matches, those who have shot the wrong target and those who havent..YET.
so ya cant be too careful.
Glad it worked out well for ya Al.
John