20 ga Hammergun

[pietro]

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A new section for this forum, so I thought some might enjoy eyeballing this gun.

I was lucky enough to acquire this European ( it has a carrying sling attached) 20ga SxS hammer gun w/extractors awhile back - and found it handles like a magic wand. :drinks:

https://i.imgur.com/ddLdmeDl.jpg

It's in fairly new condition, so I cased it in a case from Connecticut Shotgun Mfg that I also ran across.

https://i.imgur.com/CVdWVzjl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fyu0lPml.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xg8Dwanl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RvtuJvll.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pbyovLBl.jpg

[HWooldridge]

Outstanding! I bet the quail run in fright when they see you coming with that one.

[Texas by God]

I love it. Especially the back action locks. It's just begging to go hunting!

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[Daekar]

Oh my goodness, now that is a gun!

That is precisely the kind of thing that I would love to have.

[tnlonghunter]

That's great! I'm just getting into shotguns and wondering what took me so long. I've had autos, O/U's, and used a few pumps, and I've never really connected with them, but shooting with a good traditional SxS just feels much more natural. I'm looking for a good hammer gun like yours to r I understand out my small "collection".

[warren5421]

Wish I still had some of the great SxS's I have had in the last 65 years. I like long barrels, 16 ga hammers that fell just right on the swing. The 16 will do everything a 12 does for me but just feels right.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Very nice. Who made it?

DG

[pietro]

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IDK who made it, DG.

The only designation is on the top rib (Manneman Special), and proof marks similar to Belgian proofs that none of the experts have been able to ID.

It has a very light frame, so in an abundance of caution, I use only low-pressure shotshells from RST.


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[Der Gebirgsjager]

Of course I found it irresistible to not follow up on this. It seems that there was a very large German conglomerate that among making other products were in the business of making steel tubing, named Mannesman. They could have made the barrels. Acier was a gunmaking name closely associated with Belgium, and it is likely they made the gun and perhaps bought the barrels from Mannesman. I checked my usual printed references and found nothing about the gun, but did an internet "search" on Mannesman and Mannesman Special shotgun. Lots of stuff came up, including some images of varous shotguns, and one appears to be your photo on the deck railing! Mannesman was taken over by another company many years ago, and it doesn't mention that they, themselves, made guns.

DG

[Duckiller]

No quail for that gun. Just grouse. It is in New England after all. I have never learned to shoot double trigger guns and at 79 I probably never will. Do have single selective SxS and O/Us.

[gwpercle]

SWEET !!!

I've always had a Lusting for a 20 gauge Hammer Gun ... they look so Elegant and Trim !
Thanks for Posting :drinks:
Gary

[pietro]

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I also know that "acier" means steel (not Damascus/twist).

One of the proof marks looks like it's Belgian, but has an "M" in the center that nobody seem to know anything about.

These 2 pics are the only proof marks anywhere on the inside out outside of the metal parts.


https://i.imgur.com/QMdKjJll.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OhosRazl.jpg

[LtFrankDrebbin]

What's not to love about the old classic shot guns. Very nice!

[Jedman]

295962295963295964295965I have a 12 ga. Double with hammers that has a no forend , the lever that unlocks the action and second lever that allows the barrels to be removed from the action are sculpted to be your forend. It’s made in Belgium but has no makers name on it may be a guild made gun ? It’s got 2 1/2” chambers and I still haven’t fired it , I bought it about 1 1/2 years ago and have tried to find some RST shotshells for it but haven’t got any so I may load some of my own with cut down hulls and a roll crimper.I have found some good 1 OZ loads with SR 4756 that are only about 5 K pressure and I still have a pound of that powder left. It’s seems to be a good quality made double and the locks and triggers work fine and it locks up super tight.
I just have to many irons in the fire with dozens of project guns to get busy and shoot it. It’s on my list !

Jedman

[pietro]

I bought it about 1 1/2 years ago and have tried to find some RST shotshells for it but haven't got any

Jedman


FWIW, I had the same issue, finding RST low-pressure shotshells, so I ordered some directly from RST: https://www.rstshells.com/

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[elmacgyver0]

I have an old SxS 16-gauge hammer gun, Damascus barrels. paid $100 for it.
I was going to load some light black powder loads for it, so far, I haven't, perhaps this summer.

[stubshaft]

I have an old SxS 16-gauge hammer gun, Damascus barrels. paid $100 for it.
I was going to load some light black powder loads for it, so far, I haven't, perhaps this summer.

I have an old Belgium 16 gauge hammer gun myself. I load it with 2F black and regularly use it to shoot doves. It weighs a trim 5 lbs. 2 oz..

That is a real purdy double 20!

[Grayone]

Very beautiful old world quality piece.

[pietro]

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T.Y. Grayone… :drinks:

[6pt-sika]

Very nice ! I shoot hammer guns in the SxS shoots but only 8 , 10 , 12 and 16 . I've not been able to find a Parker 20 gauge top lever hammer gun in my price range .

[Fast Asleep]

I admit to a serious addiction to SxS shotguns—especially those with sidelock actions and hammers. So far I have been fortunate enough to collect 2 in 410, 1 in 44/410, 1 in 28, 1 in 24, 3 in 20, 1 in 16, 2 in 12 and 1 in 10 bores. Still searching for a 32 bore.
I regularly shoot clays and hunt with most of these, finding it great fun to build suitable ammo for the task.

[Squid Boy]

I am new here and posted on the black powder thread about 209 primers in rifle cases. I am also into SxS shotguns and just finished development of a nice light load for my Bonehill 8 gauge hammer gun. Now I am working on the opposite end of the spectrum, extra heavy one ounce loads for a 410. I have 8 gauge, 10 gauge, 12 gauge including a Manton Paradox, 16 gauge Cape gun, missing a twenty but have 28's and a 24 plus a couple of 410's. I have several tested loads for Damascus guns. Anyone interested in starting a conversation, I will send you my private email. Now I know I will like it here, Squid Boy

[pietro]

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Welcome to the board, Squid Boy - FWIW, you can use this forum's private message board ILO email for head-to-head discussions.

[Squid Boy]

pietro, I would welcome anyone that wants to message me. That is a fine looking little hammer gun and the lines are very much like a Belgian Hanquet Cape gun I have. Even the light engraving on the locks looks similar. Those proof marks are driving me nuts and don't make much sense at all. I thought perhaps the oval with the CLA was the importers stamp and it would be Claybrough but a closer look shows periods between the letters. Plus the Choke mark is too new for it to be them. The Crown M has me baffled. Even so it is a sweet little gun. Good luck with it. Squid Boy

[6pt-sika]

I am new here and posted on the black powder thread about 209 primers in rifle cases. I am also into SxS shotguns and just finished development of a nice light load for my Bonehill 8 gauge hammer gun. Now I am working on the opposite end of the spectrum, extra heavy one ounce loads for a 410. I have 8 gauge, 10 gauge, 12 gauge including a Manton Paradox, 16 gauge Cape gun, missing a twenty but have 28's and a 24 plus a couple of 410's. I have several tested loads for Damascus guns. Anyone interested in starting a conversation, I will send you my private email. Now I know I will like it here, Squid Boy

You possibly coming to the Southern Side by Side in Sanford NC mid April ? Bring your Bonehill if you do we're having a 25 target informal 5 stand thing at 10 AM friday morning for the 8 gauge guns . There will be maybe 12-20 of us there shooting 8 gauge guns . Theres also a trophy 8 gauge even at Rock Mountain Sporting Clays in Meshoppen PA in late July . If memory serves Mike's event is 15 targets at his 5 stand course . I'll have four cannons at Sanford but probably only 2 at Rock Mountain . Incidently if you come to Sanford stop by the Parker Smith Challenge tent at the dove field . This year the Parker display will be 8 gauge guns , 28 gauge and 410's hence the reason I'm carting all four of mine down .

On a side note I acquired a 410 hammer gun with 30" barrels that I'll pick up at the Southern in a few weeks , sadly it's not a Parker but rather a Belgium made gun but then again Parker never made a 410 hammer gun . Might shoot the 410 hammer gun class while I'm there . I will shoot the 410 hammerless however .

[6pt-sika]

295962295963295964295965I have a 12 ga. Double with hammers that has a no forend , the lever that unlocks the action and second lever that allows the barrels to be removed from the action are sculpted to be your forend. It’s made in Belgium but has no makers name on it may be a guild made gun ? It’s got 2 1/2” chambers and I still haven’t fired it , I bought it about 1 1/2 years ago and have tried to find some RST shotshells for it but haven’t got any so I may load some of my own with cut down hulls and a roll crimper.I have found some good 1 OZ loads with SR 4756 that are only about 5 K pressure and I still have a pound of that powder left. It’s seems to be a good quality made double and the locks and triggers work fine and it locks up super tight.
I just have to many irons in the fire with dozens of project guns to get busy and shoot it. It’s on my list !

Jedman
I loaded several thousand 16 gauge one ounce loads with SR4756 in 2021 and have enough I think to get me thru sporting clays this year and perhaps next year . A friend sold me a mountain of the old AA style 16 gauge hulls , about thirty bags of Remington SP-16 wads , four pounds of SR4756 and a MEC 650 set up for the load . I already had a MEC 9000 in 16 but decided to try the 650 . It made a really nice shell . Last spring and summer I acquired four more pounds of 4756 and used it all . Now I’m keeping my eyes open for more 4756 and in the mean while I’ve been working on a Red Dot load using the SP-16 wad as I have a truckload of Red Dot .

[Squid Boy]

Sika, Craig Larter was kind enough to invite me to shoot with the big 8's and I will be bringing the Bonehill. I also have a Lefever 410 and a Pieper 24 gauge that I plan to shoot and maybe a 10 gauge as well. It is always a good time. I am planning on going to Rock Mtn. and to Vintagers at Hausmann's as well to shoot double rifle and combination guns. Actually, the Bonehill belonged to Ernie Hausmann and I bought it from him after the last Vintage match. Four eights is quite a handful. Looking forward to meeting you at Sanford. Squid Boy

[6pt-sika]

Sika, Craig Larter was kind enough to invite me to shoot with the big 8's and I will be bringing the Bonehill. I also have a Lefever 410 and a Pieper 24 gauge that I plan to shoot and maybe a 10 gauge as well. It is always a good time. I am planning on going to Rock Mtn. and to Vintagers at Hausmann's as well to shoot double rifle and combination guns. Actually, the Bonehill belonged to Ernie Hausmann and I bought it from him after the last Vintage match. Four eights is quite a handful. Looking forward to meeting you at Sanford. Squid Boy

Larter has as many as I ! He’s got Parker’s and a Lefever all I’ve got are Parker’s . There will be a couple LC Smith guys there as well . Oh yeah he’ll most likely put together another for the fun of it 8 gauge shoot at Hausemanns in June , I expect to be up for that as well . We had a for fun 8 gauge deal in June last year . I did four multiple day shoots last year Sanford , Hausemanns, Koneski’s and Hemingway’s in SC . Without a doubt if I could only do two a year it would be Koneski’s and Hemingway’s. I like Sanford but it’s kinda got a circus atmosphere with all the stuff for sale , Hausemanns is nice also but a PITA to find the first couple times since my GPS won’t work within eight miles of the place . I went to Hausemanns last year and hopefully this year because the Parker Collectirs annual banquet are Friday night in Vestal NY .which reminds me I need to call Empire Carts and reserve a cart for Hausemanns and Rick Mountain , a friend gets hotel rooms for several of us and we pay on arrival . I take care of the golf cart and give them a ride if they want .

[Squid Boy]

I will have my Parker buddy with me at Sanford and he is really into them. I was drawing a blank on Koneski's and Hemingway's until I realized Koneski owns Rock Mtn. and Hemingway owns Back Woods. I have been trying to get to the Fall shoot in SC for years and something always comes up. Looking forward to it. Squid Boy

[6pt-sika]

I will have my Parker buddy with me at Sanford and he is really into them. I was drawing a blank on Koneski's and Hemingway's until I realized Koneski owns Rock Mtn. and Hemingway owns Back Woods. I have been trying to get to the Fall shoot in SC for years and something always comes up. Looking forward to it. Squid Boy

There were no vendors at Hemingway’s just a couple guys with four or five guns for sale and the pro shop . Think I shot almost 1,000 targets down there . It was nice just shoot eat lunch , shoot go to the hotel get cleaned up and go eat seafood at one of the waterfront resteraunts . I got there a day early and shot a practice round with a friend that now lives down there and it also gave me an extra night for fresh seafood !

[Squid Boy]

All the more reasons to go this year. Squid Boy