People who make up their own loads

[Wolfdog91]

Curious to how y'all go about it and your thought process. Thanks

[15meter]

I'm not that adventurous, I dig until either I find a load or I piggy back off as close to the same caliber, case capacity and case shape.

And 90% of my "unusual" loads are mouse fart loads. That's what I typically load. Just dinger ringer fun loads.

If I'm loading for serious, this needs to kill something type loads, I'm using professionally tested loads.

They are used in expensive rifles that belong to a buddy. In the last year, my loads have accounted for two hogs a big elk and a nice deer.

And I didn't blow up a gun.

I'll let the other guys experiment, with a 4 foot long collection of reloading manuals going back to the 40's I can usually find something that gets me started.

I'm not a good enough reloader to blue sky a load.

[ebb]

I am not sure exactly what you are asking but I am going to try anyway. With my rifles I am usually trying to make a good long range accuracy load, so I generally pick a bullet that I have seen shoot well and has the BC that i think I need to achieve what i am looking for. I purchase a 50 or 100 round box of bullets and look at reloading data, pet loads to find 2 powders that most people like with this case and bullet. I start at about halfway to max with a powder charge and load 3, then up the charge .3 grains higher and load 3, until i get close to max. I shoot the 3 that have the same charge weight at a target, then the next 3 at another target or at a different spot on the first target. When i have shoot all the ammo i made i look at the groups and pick the tightest group. Ido the same with the next powder choice and pick the best group. I compare the first powder with second and go with the smaller group. I am old school so i usually don't mess with jump, I seat bullets to touch or a little deeper. The smallest group so far in this process is my load for now. If I am looking for a better group, I will start all over with a different bullet, or try a different powder. With pistols i buy bullets find the bullet online or in a reloading manual and load a powder charge halfway in the middle between min and max, or if i don't like the speed maybe a little higher than halfway. Only you will know when to stop looking and call this your load and make a bunch and just shoot. I hope that is what you wanted to know.

[Kosh75287]

It sorta depends on what caliber and the purpose of the load I'm trying to "make up". I usually (always?) base what I'm doing on established data, and extrapolate from there. What kind of a load are you trying for?

[cwtebay]

Sort of a dangerous question to be asking. Too low - bore obstruction. Too high - ka boom.
I like to know my powder profiles, primer differences, research known load data, extrapolate where I am trying to be.
Whether imitating 30 rimfire from a Krag or touching the upper end of a 300 PRC - I do my homework on pressure from both the proposed load (primer, powder, projectile, brass) and the firearm they are to be used with.

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[justindad]

First part of the answer is that you have to answer this for yourself. Always consider the risks you are taking.
*
Second part of the answer is - look into Gordon’s Reloading Tool or Quickloads software. Adjust parameters, predict the effects of your adjustments, and consider why your predictions were wrong. Enter parameters from the closest published load data, and consider the differences between the calculated vs published pressures & velocities (can be large). After you have a working physical model in your mind of what is going on… start in a safe zone before venturing out too far. If you can’t explain the physics that explains relationships between inputs & outputs, don’t go outside of published data. The software will be wrong, and you should know when, why, and how to respond.
*
Third, a chronograph and Pressure Trace II are nice to have. Or, maybe pay a testing house to measure the pressures in your ammo.
*
Fourth, consider the risk & morality of allowing other people to shoot ammo you made in this manner.
*
Finally, consider these words as those of someone a bit arrogant and inexperienced.

[nhyrum]

I use quickload. I've got a couple odd balls and not so common bullets, but I also compare with Internet data as well. I pick a conservative starting point, see where the software says I should reach max pressures, and I carefully check for any signs of excessive pressure and STOP. at the first sign. I'm not looking to have an incident like Kentucky ballistics. Going off the book is NOT for the faint of heart, and I feel like you really need to understand the broader and finer aspects of what goes on inside the case, chamber, and barrel before diving in.

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[405grain]

Something to consider is that as pressure increases it causes burning rate to increase - which causes pressure to increase. This can lead to a vicious cycle that can cause an over-pressure situation. Different powders are designed not only to have differing burning rates, but also to operate in particular ranges of pressure. Increases in powder charge may give predictable pressure increases while they're within the design pressure range, but some powders can have exponential increases in pressure once they approach the upper limit of that design pressure curve. A particular powder that comes to mind is Blue Dot. It preforms fine while within it's normal pressure curve, but once it reaches the upper limits of that it becomes really spiky.

This, and many other good reasons, is why I would recommend that you develop your loads by using published data from reputable bullet or powder manufacturers. They have the research equipment to see time pressure curves and things like that. Never start at or near to maximum listed loads, and always work up your loads in fraction of a grain increments that are appropriate for the size of cartridge that your shooting. The fundamental goal of developing a load should be an effort for best accuracy. Higher velocity and more power is of no importance if your not able to hit your target.

[Harter66]

Lots of time in service with a single powder , lots of attention to detail , and functionally loading off the books 38s and testing in 357s . I mean if your test bed is built to run twice the ideal max of your cartridge it's not a big deal .

There are some old stand bys that it's just really hard to screw up with , that doesn't mean you can't , it just means you have to work at it and do dumb stuff .
It's also really easy to get in a mess where data was working then it's not .

As an example I was working a load up for a .007 neck up mildcat in a brand new rifle . The charge was right on the numbers with the Chrono then about 1.5 gr from max in a 4+ gr charge window it goes flat . I flip the bolt open and eject a case with a .225 hole where the .210 LRP used to live . That was the day I learned bolt lift isn't an indicator of high pressure because with a fully gone primer there was no difference in lift . I also learned that one should weigh bullets from a new mould just in case your 27-130 FP casts .279-141 gr .......

I don't know how to visualize 20 gr of brass but it's roughly the size of a pellet of Buck shot . That how much Remington 2000 production 06' and LC 43 will vary in capacity .

It would pretty hard to get hurt using for example 260 Rem data in 7-08 or 7-08 data in 308 or 338 FC in 358 with 150 gr bullets . Don't go the other way , bad stuff happens . 270/280/06etc same deal .

When you have data for the next bullet weight step but not for the one in hand , say a 140 gr bullet in a 270 win where data is most often for 130 and 150 gr use the 150 data for the 140 ....... Unless you have a situation where there is a large variation of case intrusion . The TTSX for example would be a train wreck waiting to happen for.lots of reasons .

Slower powders for cartridge and bullet weight .
Same case and weight down one caliber .
Same case and caliber go up one weight .

Don't go crazy with this , don't place absolute faith in digitally generated data .
Do read manuals , do compare several sets of data , do use caution .
Nothing here is absolute , there will always be deviations .

There's no such thing as too many data sources .

[Nobade]

Quickload goes a long way to allowing you to come up with untried combinations, as well as the fact that as cast bullet shooters we are very seldom trying to push the envelope on pressure. A big dose of common sense helps as well.

[mehavey]

QuickLoad:

Analyze and filter for chosen cartridge/bullet (whether cast/PC'd/Jacketed):
- Chosen Pressure regime
- All powders that....
..-- 90-105% Fill
..-- 90-95% Burn
..-- Max velocity

Usually winnow down to 3-4 most promising combo's,
Loaded slightly (5-10%) short of target pressure for calibration
Then out to range with a chronograph,
Modify QL's initial powder burn speed, based on actual velocities, to get most probably actual pressure...

... Adjust from there for best grouping

[dverna]

I am not a believer in the chronograph telling you much about how safe a load is. In fact, not a believer in using one at all...even though I own one. But if it works for smarter guys than I, so be it.

If you decide to use one to evaluate the safety of your loads, get a detailed procedure of how to do it, and post it here for comments. I have never seen anything that makes sense.

You are new to this reloading stuff. My advice is stay with published loads. I have never needed to "push" a square peg into a round hole so my needs have been met with safe loads. The only loads where I have gone "off the reservation" where low powdered loads for CAS. But I knew which powders could be safely downloaded.

[Wayne Smith]

Get all the data and information you can about your project. I have a 25 Krag AI 40degree rifle. There is no data for such a beast. But - research shows that it contains 2gr water greater than the 257 Roberts AI and 2gr water less than the 25-06. I have data for both thus I have windows of safety to load this cartridge. The more data you have the more intelligent decisions you can make.

[GhostHawk]

Generally speaking for me I'm going DOWN not up.

4895 is a good example. They say you can go to 60% (or somewhere near there)

So assuming a roughly 50 grain starting load. Devide by 10, get 5 grains per 10 %. Multiply times 4 (Reducing 60% leaves 40)
get 20 grains. Now this may or may not cycle action. May have to be adjusted. In which case you don't go messing with all the variables at once. You go after them one at a time and take notes. Leave a trail as to how you got here.

[country gent]

One way I have used when working with a wildcat round where no data is available is to start by finding water capacity and looking for a round with close to the same and using close to the same bullet weight. I then reduce to work up from. By finding this close cartridge it also gives me an idea of what powders to look at.

I do chronograph when working up loads, watching extreme spread and standard deviation along with velocity. With most modern smokeless powders they have a "pressure range" where they perform best the ES and SD help to show this point as they are at the lowest. measuring case heads watching primers extraction ( bolt lift) all will give an idea of pressure.

Always start at a lower point and work up slowly and carefully in small increments

[RoyEllis]

Generally speaking for me I'm going DOWN not up.

4895 is a good example. They say you can go to 60% (or somewhere near there)

So assuming a roughly 50 grain starting load. Devide by 10, get 5 grains per 10 %. Multiply times 4 (Reducing 60% leaves 40)
get 20 grains. Now this may or may not cycle action. May have to be adjusted. In which case you don't go messing with all the variables at once. You go after them one at a time and take notes. Leave a trail as to how you got here.

Not exactly the correct procedure, use MAX load to compute from. Below is copied from Hodgdon's site.....

"Hodgdon Powder Company has found that H4895 can be loaded to reduced levels. H4895was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. To create reduced loads, the 60% formula is recommended. Find the H4895 load in the Reloading Data Center for your caliber and bullet. Take the maximumH4895 charge listed and multiply by 60% (.6). The load may be adjusted up from there to achieve the desired velocity and accuracy. This works only where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use in a cartridge where H4895is not shown. Example: 30-06 cartridge with 125 gr. Sierra SP bullet. Max load shown in the Reloading Data Center with H4895 is 53.7 grains. 53.7 X .6 = 32.2 grains. The shooter begins with this load, and may work up from there to obtain the desired velocity and accuracy for his reduced load."

[Sig556r]

13 grains of Red Dot...

[waksupi]

First off, until you get completely comfortable with loading process, stick to the manuals. When you get to where you think you know it all, you have reached the point where you are probably just dangerous. You need to get to the point where you are always a bit worried if you are doing everything right.
I use burn speed charts, compare powders to find one in the right range. It's nice if you have access to a chronograph. You can fire a group, then divide the FPS by grains of powder in the load, to get a real good idea how much velocity is gained per grain of powder.
If accuracy goes away with a slow powder and you have reached full case capacity. step up in powder burn rate.

[NSB]

I’m not saying “don’t do it”, but it does remind me of something Abe Lincoln once said. He said, “ a man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client”. If you’re an expert at law, give it a try. Same applies to handloading. Be safe.

[centershot]

In a word, "DON'T!". There are so many sources for load information, why would anyone risk their safety by trying to work up a load without a solid reference??

[15meter]

In a word, "DON'T!". There are so many sources for load information, why would anyone risk their safety by trying to work up a load without a solid reference??

Because there are cartridges still in use that there is little or no data available for.

8x50R, 280 Ross, 8x56R, 318 Westley Richards, .350 Rigby No 2 and a few hundred more that you can't look up on Hodgdon's website and get nice tidy pressure tested load data.

Now go even further and try and find cast boolit data for the (almost)obsolete and you'll find even less data.

I extrapolate data, but very cautiously.

It's that or have more wall hangers then there is wall.

[mehavey]

Because there are cartridges still in use that there is little or no data available
^^^^ THIS ^^^^


I am not a believer in the chronograph telling you much about
how safe a load is. In fact, not a believer in using one at all...
Intelligent use/adjustment of QuickLoad plus a Chronograph is an excellent
source of pressure/performance data... short of a strain gauge/transducer.

Use either alone however, you're flying blind.
(See Post #11 (https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?437834-People-who-make-up-their-own-loads&p=5344494&viewfull=1#post5344494))

[para45lda]

I'm anxious to hear back from you. My presumption is you have a limited powder selection and are trying to figure it out. A common problem I imagine for quite a few folks if the truth was told.

Do you have an end use you can share and we could make a SWAG at it. Otherwise it's just WAG.

Wes

[todd9.3x57]

i WAG'ed some alliant 2400 loads in my 35/30 and 444 marlin.

[DougGuy]

There is also a comparative approach. Let's say for example 44 Special or 45 Schofield in a New Model Vaquero or Flattop Blackhawk.

These are two anemic factory loads made for older guns that SAAMI will NEVER adopt a +P rating for, and there is absolutely ZERO published data that goes any higher than the factory loadings and factory pressures.

Working with just H110, we know this powder works well with 80% and above load density. You can sorta compare case volume and boolit weight for Ruger Only 45 Colt loads and 44 Magnum, and when you reduce the case volume for 44 Special and 45 Schofield and figure 80% of the new reduced case volume, you will arrive at generally a safe +P load for the modern guns not the antiques. Lighter boolits will yield more case volume, because there is less boolit down in the case which doesn't really create a dangerous load, because the boolit is lighter. This works. Heavier boolits will reduce case volume, and therefore 80% will be a LOT less powder, and then again, the load won't be dangerous because of the reduction in powder charge.

[MT Gianni]

Look at the parent case. Examine other cartridges with a similar bore to case capacity ratio. In one of my reloading manuals there are 19 combinations for 270 with 130 gr bullets. There are 22 combinations for 30-06 with 150 gr bullets. There are 11 combinations for 280 with a 139/140 gr bullet. Do we really believe that the 280 will detonate if used with a start load of one of the combinations listed for 270 or 30-06 but not listed for 280? Same story with the 7/30 Waters. Some cartridges are so obscure there is little data out there.

[M-Tecs]

Look at the parent case. Examine other cartridges with a similar bore to case capacity ratio. In one of my reloading manuals there are 19 combinations for 270 with 130 gr bullets. There are 22 combinations for 30-06 with 150 gr bullets. There are 11 combinations for 280 with a 139/140 gr bullet. Do we really believe that the 280 will detonate if used with a start load of one of the combinations listed for 270 or 30-06 but not listed for 280? Same story with the 7/30 Waters. Some cartridges are so obscure there is little data out there.

Yes, but that relies on common sense. That seems to be very rare nowadays.

Also contacting the loading manual ballisticians can be very helpful. They tend to have thousands of loads on file that are not in the books.

I have done a couple of self-designed wildcats and your method has worked very well. Same for the other folks I know that designed their own wildcats.

I am not aware of anyone using carefully interpolated data that has had any significant pressure issues.

One the other hand I have seen a lot of blown firearms due to careless loading techniques with number one cause being using pistol powder believing its rifles powder.

With a little common sense it's actually quite difficult to damage a modern firearm. The less common sense the easier it gets.

[gifbohane]

You gotta have a starting point or some parameters. You get them in a manual.

If you are dealing with an obscure bullet, well, you just don't know where to start. If I absolutely, positively had to try, I would put some quantity of powder in the case, set up a Chrono, a lead screen and pull the trigger with a string from six feet away and behind the screen. Only Idea that I have and I am not recommending this.

[Tar Heel]

In doing so you are taking on an assumptive risk. Propellant companies have a lot of test barrels. I have one barrel on a firearm that I would prefer not losing. I have done it simply because there was not a lot of load data for the 226-JDJ. Years ago J.D. Jones taught me the golden rule which is that ballistic pressure curves are not linear and do not necessarily track proportionately with load weight or density.

Just when you think you are pretty smart and have it all figured out with your Quick Load (or other software) data in hand, you may experience a "pressure excursion" which at best is an eye opening experience and, at worst, a barrel/appendage destroyer. My 411-JDJ was my humbling experience. I was expecting about 1500fps and after my hand registered an ungodly recoil. I looked at the chronograph which displayed 1900fps. Fortunately my barrel/frame/hand survived the excursion.

That is the assumptive risk. Are you willing to sacrifice a barrel and/or a body part? I prefer to let the powder companies blow their stuff up. They can easily pull another test barrel of the wall.

But we are guys. Hold my beer.

[Winger Ed.]

Curious to how y'all go about it and your thought process. Thanks

It'd be different if I loaded for some old and obscure cartridges,,, but I don't.

I just use loading book data for the few cartridges I load, and they are old, well developed, and super common.
Basically, I work in and on 'well plowed ground'.
I figure they've been researched and developed by folks with a whole lot more test gear than I'll ever have.
For me and my purposes, there's no great need or desire to go off into uncharted waters.

[TurnipEaterDown]

If you go about developing your own loads, without some cartridge/powder data, something WILL bite you at some point. I have had a couple experiences, while working with wildcats, surplus powder, or oddball cartridges where data is Very limited, but never a horrifyingly bad experience. My worst was a blown primer in a Rem 700 with a case that had to be pried out of the bolt face. Would the next person have a worse experience? You be the judge. I tend to work in what I think is a very careful manner when I do this type of thing, and it still involves risk.

There are many things about powder beside burn rate that needs to be known to make good guesses, and even when making good guesses you had better have a way of measuring pressure or at least Comparative Pressure.

Velocity off a chronograph is a good thing to have, required even, but it is certainly not sufficient if your criteria is to be completely safe.

Example:
I used 4895 in a wildcat 416 caliber I did on a moderate capacity case. 300 gr bullets Jacketed & Cast GC, easy, reached expected ENERGY levels with ease, great groups, and no indication of pressure in heat or cold. Same gun & Cartridge, same said for a 370 gr CAST GC bullet.
Then, same cartridge & gun, went in between with a 340 gr jacketed bonded core bullet. 44.5gr, all good, and 420 ft*lbs short of energy target, so I load 46 gr (~ 3.3% more powder) and the energy jumped 800 ft*lbs, or ~40%. Changes like this Do NOT occur without sudden pressure jumps.

One notable powder metric beside burn rate is Specific Impulse. Rarely is this ever found by the consumer.

Making up loads comes with risk. Possibly serious risk. You accept it or not. I don't recommend this practice to anyone, but have done it. There is no way to judge another person's knowledge level.

Closing note: There is NOTHING Mystical about some pet cartridge. Case capacity is Directly related to potential bullet energy IF the correct powder is employed, and operating pressures are normalized. If you think you have a miracle cartridge, it is not. With the enormous spread of commercial and proprietary cartridges out there in common calibers, re: capacity to bore ratio; whatever you have has Very Likely been done before, and the potential bullet energy will be governed by case capacity and operating pressure. You might have something with a different shape, but capacity and pressure govern the ability to achieve target projectile energy levels.

[Mk42gunner]

Back when I was messing with high velocity wildcats; I compared same case capacity similar bore vs. same bore similar case capacity. Then I started with the slowest powder I had and the heaviest bullet.

This may not be the best way, but I still have all ten fingers and both eyes. The rifles are still shooting fine too.

Robert

[M-Tecs]

If you go about developing your own loads, without some cartridge/powder data, something WILL bite you at some point............................................. .......................
Closing note: There is NOTHING Mystical about some pet cartridge. Case capacity is Directly related to potential bullet energy IF the correct powder is employed, and operating pressures are normalized. If you think you have a miracle cartridge, it is not. With the enormous spread of commercial and proprietary cartridges out there in common calibers, re: capacity to bore ratio; whatever you have has Very Likely been done before, and the potential bullet energy will be governed by case capacity and operating pressure. You might have something with a different shape, but capacity and pressure govern the ability to achieve target projectile energy levels.

I concur 100%. For the most part data is available for a very similar cartridges so you really do have to lack common sense to randomly select truly dangerous combinations. That being said lots of folks do some very strange and dangerous things.

With the advent of heavy for caliber bullets for the subsonic, long range and extreme long ranges applications lots of cartridges do not have data for the heavy for caliber bullets so there is still lots of uncharted territory in those applications but these cartridges will require quicker twist ie customer barrel to stabilize the long bullets so that limits the amount bubba's going babba things.

I was at the range last summer when a gentleman could not understand why is 12 twist 223 would not stabilize his 90 grain bullets since they shot in his buddies' rifle. I tried to explain the why but he basically told me to take a hike since they worked in his bud's rifle and they should work in his rifle also...................

[justindad]

A couple of things I’m wondering about:
1) How do I identify the design pressure range of a powder, and compare that to my intended application? I know there are burn rate charts, but I expect burn rate to be variable and actually a function of pressure.
2) Is this powder designed to be compressed? Fill the case halfway? Barely fill the case? Then what happens if my guesstimated powder charge moves too far away from one of those? How far away from that intent can I go? - probably depends, and likely some powders go up while others go down. This may not be reliably accounted for in software tools.
*
A phone call to the powder maker is probably the way to answer those questions. Until then, I consider it good to take stock of what I don’t [fully] understand.

[Bigslug]

Whenever somebody comes up with a new edition of their loading manual, buy it, and keep your old ones.

Whenever a new edition of Cartridges of the World comes out, buy it.

Do some online searches for "powder burn rate chart", and study a few different ones to see where your particular powders lie.

Study all the online load data sites you can find.

When looking at your manuals, study the cartridge blueprint diagrams to see what out there is similar to what you are proposing to play with.

If you're playing with historical things, look to historical sources.

[BMW Rider]

When you get to where you think you know it all, you have reached the point where you are probably just dangerous. You need to get to the point where you are always a bit worried if you are doing everything right.
.

^^^THIS^^^

:goodpost:

[Rcmaveric]

Invest or source out an internal balistic program. The only two i know of is Gordons Reloading Tools (free) and Quickloads (Windows Only, expensive, buy or borrow (due to liabilites and legalities i wont mention it being available on P2P which is how i got it)). Understand that these programs are just estimates and only as accurate as the info you out in it.

Next justify to yourself why you need to create your own recipe and justify endangering yourself. My case I have a favorite powder (Tight Group) and wanted plinking loads in all my cartridges. It just so happens I use it for shotgun and 9mm.

Under stand pressure CURVES and how it affect your accuracy. Just because the gun is rated for 60k psi doesnt mean your bullets be accurate at 60k.

Then I run a simulation to find my max charge. Max charge is dictated by either max safe pressure for the gun or max pressure for the bullets (i dont want to start that debate we can start a new thread on that one). I write that one in red (red your dead). Then i drop 20% and call that min and write that in blue. Some times i just start at the min pressure needed for obturation snd go up from there. I create a shot test of 4 shot groups in 1g increments from max to min.

Then i go shooting. Depending on how i feel i might check my wills. Pray. That first shot always makes me nervous and hesitant. I have rolled lots of unbuplished loads with powders and i always get uneasy. Depending on what my targets tell me depends on what i do next.

You may find some powders just dont work. I never got any accurate loads out of BLC-2. They were all 2 MOA. Fine for plinking but i like .5 moa to 1. Anything less than .5 is bragging and deserves pictures. Needs to be pictured and reproduce 5 times to prove its repestable and not a fluke.

There is an art and science. Like determining at which pressures to start at. It is dangerous, powders act different when they have space and as pressures go up. Study the pressure curves. Know your bullets and their pressures. There have been times i found accuracy when i shouldnt ie over pressured the lead.

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[Tar Heel]

Here is my last propellant determinant equation. You can either use this equation and spend 73 hours making calculations or you can look up a load in a manual and then go to the range and have fun.

295443

[tmanbuckhunter]

I compare multiple data sources figuring out their minimum and maximum loads, and go from there. The hottest max I find is true max, and the lowest minimum I find is true low, and then I find a starting place and work my way up until I either start running into pressure or I hit target velocity/group sizes.

[farmbif]

my first thought is, why
these days with computers and internet, there is more load data available online from the powder and bullet manufacturers than ever before and there are more powders available than ever before .

and some things just plain work and work really well, like the 4350's in 30-06 and 3031 in the 30-30 and bullseye in many handgun loads.
I tend to eer on the side of safety and many years ago realized that in order to reload many different calibers and experiment with many different bullet weights and try to get the best accuracy many different powders were just a good thing to keep in the reloading room. and back then before everything was online having as many different reloading books was a very good thing to keep for reference.

[waksupi]

I will point out to the "Don't do it" crowd, loading info didn't exist for cast bullets and some surplus powders until they were developed by members on this board. This is something for very experienced hand loaders with their poop in a neatly stacked little pile to do.

[Char-Gar]

First of all, if you have to ask such a question, it is certain you should not be doing it. That said, with years of loading experience, you will come to have some understanding of case capacity, caliber and powder burning rates. With this knowledge and experience you can cautiously begin to load ammo based on your knowledge and experience. There is no check list that comes from knowledge and experience.

[cwtebay]

Perhaps this may sound like splitting hairs - but there is a vast difference between extrapolating and "making up' load data.
Making up conjures up the image of a pinch and a dash sort of process, extrapolation implies that one is taking known information for the components being used and assembling them with that information.
Also, other than the wildcats - I could find load data for each of the cartridges mentioned in this thread.

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[justindad]

The reason why, for me, is because I enjoy learning more than doing. After I mastered the clarinet, it got boring. When I ran a 5 minute mile, I was done. After I saw the inside of an engine, I lost interest in replacing my brake pads. Exploring and learning is what makes life enjoyable for me. Then teaching makes life fulfilling.
*
With humility & respect, we can manage risk and enjoy life.

[Rcmaveric]

The reason for me. Is i was taught to never trust an internet load data and never share what i create. Because whats safe for me might not be safe for you. I have even proved it to myself that a safe load today isnt a safe load tomorrow because i was playing with seating depths.

Lots of published loads yes. Not a lot of castbullet loads with new powders though. Just because books are full powders doesnt mean we all have access to those powders. I have primary powders and loads then i have back ups.

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[Plate plinker]

Not interested in guess work. Going to leave it at that.

[elmacgyver0]

Go for it, just make sure your will is updated.
Humor aside, stay with the starting loads in reputable manuals; then if you need to, work up from there.
Load a few a try them, if they work well stick with that loading.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Wolfdog91,
As I've said before, you always ask the best questions.

I suspect my answer will likely (and hopefully) create more questions in your head, then actually being an answer.

I am lucky to have a wide selection of powders to choose from. When I start thinking about loading a batch of ammo, I think about the boolit weight and speed I want to send it. If I don't already have a powder in mind, I'll look at several published reloading manuals, and see what powders are most commonly used for the application I want. Then I look at the powder shelf to see what I have, this will also include looking at some burn rate charts, because maybe there is some other powder that I have, that weren't listed in the reloading manuals for my application, but it is in the similar burn rate 'zone' as the powders I found that were published.

Let's say I find a powder that's in the burn rate zone, but my manuals don't have any published data. Which has happened to me a couple times in the last few years, maybe due to the powder being very old, or maybe very new. That's when I turn to the internet, and mostly commonly, my bullet casting friends. Depending on what I learn from that search, I have always found out why this may or may not be a good idea. If my search comes up empty, I move to another powder. If I get a few clues, enough to extrapolate a load, then I do that.

The one time I have got mixed opinions, is whether I would want to use some surplus powder I bought long ago (IMR 7383) for a certain caliber.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?210359-IMR-7383-duplex
I still have a full 8 lb jug of 7383, just sitting on the shelf.

[Texas by God]

Extrapolate in a downward direction every time you extrapolate. As stated, caliber, case capacity, bullet weight, and powder burn rate must be known to begin with.

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[M-Tecs]

Perhaps this may sound like splitting hairs - but there is a vast difference between extrapolating and "making up' load data.
Making up conjures up the image of a pinch and a dash sort of process, extrapolation implies that one is taking known information for the components being used and assembling them with that information.
Also, other than the wildcats - I could find load data for each of the cartridges mentioned in this thread.

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I think you hit the nail on the head as far as the reality and the perception of the issue. Anyone with common sense doing this compares very similar case volume to known loads using powders in the same burning range to again to known loads. It hard to get too far off the reservation using this method. Perception (by some) is that the people that doing this just pull stuff from the air. Even the people playing with pulled down cannon powder and duplex loading are building off of other peoples data.

I do believe it goes deeper than that and comes down to personally types. Some personalities are very much color within the lines and some personality types are color outside the lines. I never understood how different these types can be until work sent myself and a coworker to an out of state conference without a rental car. We opted to rent a car together and see some of the sites. My coworker was a color within the lines type and a nice guy, however, he was driving and we mistakenly found ourselves in a huge almost mile square parking lot. It was Sunday and it had zero cars or people in it. It did have direction arrows up and down every lane. The entrance was one-way, and the exit was on the opposite end. Had I been driving I would have just turned around and drove the 100 feet the wrong way to the road since there were zero people and zero cars as far as one could see. He had to follow the lines and would not even drive diagonal to get to the exit. Driving up and down each line added many miles to that event. I could not take it anymore and we had it out. He would not let me drive out but once out we agreed I would do 100% of the driving for the remainder of the trip. The mere thought of driving against or across the arrows/lines freaked him out.

My guess is the color within the lines personality types don't purchase much powder from http://www.surpluspowder.com/gunpowder.html either.

[Kosh75287]

Here's an example of how I might approach a problem:
A bullet caster whom I like and trust makes a 116 gr. FP projectile for 9x18mm Makarov, but I can only find data for 90 & 95 gr. j-words. The max recommended charge weight for the 95 gr. j-words, using my propellant of choice is 6.3 gr.
I multiply 6.3 gr. x (95 gr./116 gr.), which gives me 5.15 gr. as a max load. I round DOWN, to err on the side of caution, to 5.1 gr. I multiply by 0.9, to get a starting load that is 10% under "maximum". I get 4.59 gr. as a starting load, but again, I round DOWN, to err on the side of caution.
I load ten rounds of 4.5/"M.P.O.C."/116 gr. FP, to the longest c.o.a.l. that the Makarov's chamber will accommodate. I load 5 or 10 rounds at 4.6/"M.P.O.C."/116 gr. FP, and another 5 or 10 rounds at 0.1 gr. higher, then fire them through a chronograph, lowest charge weight to higher. I'm also watching to see how the load functions (or does not). If the projectile(s) fail(s) to leave the barrel, I stop trying to fire that batch of reloads, toss them in the "to be pulled" can, punch the lodged projectile from the barrel and go to the next higher charge weight.
SO FAR, I have not had to hammer out any stuck projectiles, but I know that my day is coming. So I usually have 3 to 5 batches of 10 or less rounds laddered with respect to charge weights. While my starting loads have always "cleared the barrel", they sometimes fail to eject or feed. Even when they do, velocities may be quite low or variances in velocities may quite high (>10% average muzzle velocity). Absent any other warning signs that I'm near max pressure, I'll try the next higher charge weights, in hopes of more uniform results.

[Wolfdog91]

Mmmm very interesting responses.

[405grain]

Wolfdog91: I have noticed that since you've started posting on this site most of the questions that you ask result in multiple pages of spirited debate and information & opinion sharing. Good on you!

[Rcmaveric]

I saw burn rate chart was mentioned.

Get a few of those from reputable sources and look for powder equivalents chart and a powders equal chart.

Equal powders are powders that are exactly the same but different name brand (IE 5744 and Buffalo bore).

Equivalent powders are those that are within 5% of each other (IE Reloader 7 and 4198). To put that in perspective manufactured powders have 5% tollerence. One of the reasons why we say dont shoot for max hot loads. You might have a tuned on the lower end burn rate powder. Your next batch of powder could be on the upper end and now your bullet charge is 10% stronger and opps boom there goes your finger. Also a reason why some people buy bulk lot numbers of powder and primers.

This will help you get your feet wet making new loads and extrapolating load data and getting some additional loads from little or no data.

Next up for extrapolating load data is just as dangerous. When i started loading 260 Rem there was almost nothing. I still ran the loads through Quickloads or Gordons. 6.5×55 and 6.5 Creedmoor were comparable but far enough different to make me uneasy and not try exact loads.

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[charlie b]

When doing this kind of thing I recommend three things to be essential. A chronograph (or better a strain gage testing unit), a bullet puller and a range rod (for low level loads).

I would love to own a strain gage unit to measure chamber pressures. I just can't justify the expense. :(

The chronograph is kind of a 'check' on the reloading information. Check the equipment used by the reloading data source, especially barrel length. 'Adjust' the velocities in the data to your gun. When at the range be wary when you approach the velocity of the max loads in the data. And, yes, I have had much different results than the data source. Interesting note-Sierra .308 data was compiled using a Savage BVSS rifle, which is what I own. Same loads will give velocities up to 200fps different than the manual (using same cases and primers). Hodgdon .308 data shows loads that are too hot for my rifle. Again, I get velocities well above what their data shows, even taking into account barrel length.

Bullet puller. When at the range and you run into hot loads, do not shoot them anymore. Be willing to take the loaded ammo home and pull the bullets. You can save the powder and re-use it, as long as you are sure of the powder type. This can be very tedious but is worth it in the end.

Range rod. When going for pipsqueak loads you will run into one that sticks a bullet. Have a rod to punch the bullet back out so you can continue shooting.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I saw burn rate chart was mentioned.

Get a few of those from reputable sources and look for powder equivalents chart and a powders equal chart.

Equal powders are powders that are exactly the same but different name brand (IE 5744 and Buffalo bore).

Equivalent powders are those that are within 5% of each other (IE Reloader 7 and 4198). To put that in perspective manufactured powders have 5% tollerence. One of the reasons why we say dont shoot for max hot loads. You might have a tuned on the lower end burn rate powder. Your next batch of powder could be on the upper end and now your bullet charge is 10% stronger and opps boom there goes your finger. Also a reason why some people buy bulk lot numbers of powder and primers.

This will help you get your feet wet making new loads and extrapolating load data and getting some additional loads from little or no data.

Next up for extrapolating load data is just as dangerous. When i started loading 260 Rem there was almost nothing. I still ran the loads through Quickloads or Gordons. 6.5×55 and 6.5 Creedmoor were comparable but far enough different to make me uneasy and not try exact loads.

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Excellent points here.

Which reminds me, when I started reloading, one of the first reloading manuals I bought was "Nick Harvey's Practical Reloading Manual". There is a chapter on powders. He lists all the powders he has experience with (he is Australian) in a burn rate order, and besides a short description, he lists the typical calibers he believes they are good for. I can't count the number of times, over my first few years of reloading, that I referenced that. Another great thing about his book, is all the data in it, is his own, he has shot the loads. He isn't affiliated with a powder company or a bullet company, I have found it a unique source for different data, especially when I'm looking for clues to do some extrapolating.

[JoeJames]

Not particularly mentioned here, but since I mostly reload pistol calibers that were developed before 1908 or so, I often start with Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers, and Cartridges of the World, Both will often give factory equivalent loads for lead bullets. The last one I was working on was more than a bit scanty - the 38S&W load when using a 200 grain cast bullet. In that case I was helped out by Outpost75 on here. Turned out the amount of Bullseye for the 200 grain bullet load was the same as for the standard 38S&W 148-158 grain lead bullets - 2.1 - 2.2 grains of Bullseye.

[Baltimoreed]

I started out shooting muzzleloaders where every load is basically a ‘handload’ and it grew from that. There’s a pride that you feel when you harvest game, consistently group rounds on a target or shoot a match with your handloads. And in theory you can shoot more for less.

[Texas by God]

I started out shooting muzzleloaders where every load is basically a ‘handload’ and it grew from that. There’s a pride that you feel when you harvest game, consistently group rounds on a target or shoot a match with your handloads. And in theory you can shoot more for less.The old method around here to determine the starting load for a muzzleloader is to lay the round ball on a flat surface and pour blackpowder slowly on it until the pile covers the ball in a teepee of sorts. Then you can fashion a powder scoop to dispense that amount of powder. It works.

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[Wayne Smith]

The old method around here to determine the starting load for a muzzleloader is to lay the round ball on a flat surface and pour blackpowder slowly on it until the pile covers the ball in a teepee of sorts. Then you can fashion a powder scoop to dispense that amount of powder. It works.

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Up north the process was to load your rifle and shoot over snow. Keep adding powder until there is unburned powder on the snow - then back off to the previous load.

[fredj338]

LOL, for the people that say never reload without vetted data, you just dont have enough reloading experience. Just how does one load for a wildcat with no data? That is right, you have to learn how to extrapolate. It is really no diff when loading without data for a given powder & bullet in conventional calibers. You need a chrono & get comfy with powder burn rate charts.
I load WST in several caliber, no data, but I know its burn rate & can use starting data for a faster powder that does have data & work my loads up comparing vel to the book data. Been handloading for 45 years without incident. I currently load for 3 wildcats & my 404jeffery, pretty much a wildcat.

[The Dar]

Wolfdog91: I have noticed that since you've started posting on this site most of the questions that you ask result in multiple pages of spirited debate and information & opinion sharing. Good on you!

Indeed, the man is a thinker. Wouldn't it be great for several members to meet at a restaurant for a meal together to share ideas? There are several members here I'd like to meet.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I think you hit the nail on the head as far as the reality and the perception of the issue. Anyone with common sense doing this compares very similar case volume to known loads using powders in the same burning range to again to known loads. It hard to get too far off the reservation using this method. Perception (by some) is that the people that doing this just pull stuff from the air. Even the people playing with pulled down cannon powder and duplex loading are building off of other peoples data.

I do believe it goes deeper than that and comes down to personally types. Some personalities are very much color within the lines and some personality types are color outside the lines. I never understood how different these types can be until work sent myself and a coworker to an out of state conference without a rental car. We opted to rent a car together and see some of the sites. My coworker was a color within the lines type and a nice guy, however, he was driving and we mistakenly found ourselves in a huge almost mile square parking lot. It was Sunday and it had zero cars or people in it. It did have direction arrows up and down every lane. The entrance was one-way, and the exit was on the opposite end. Had I been driving I would have just turned around and drove the 100 feet the wrong way to the road since there were zero people and zero cars as far as one could see. He had to follow the lines and would not even drive diagonal to get to the exit. Driving up and down each line added many miles to that event. I could not take it anymore and we had it out. He would not let me drive out but once out we agreed I would do 100% of the driving for the remainder of the trip. The mere thought of driving against or across the arrows/lines freaked him out.

My guess is the color within the lines personality types don't purchase much powder from http://www.surpluspowder.com/gunpowder.html either.

Was he German?

[M-Tecs]

Was he German?

Not sure but his name ended with ski so my guess is Polish. I am 100% German heritage.

[dverna]

LOL, for the people that say never reload without vetted data, you just dont have enough reloading experience. Just how does one load for a wildcat with no data? That is right, you have to learn how to extrapolate. It is really no diff when loading without data for a given powder & bullet in conventional calibers. You need a chrono & get comfy with powder burn rate charts.
I load WST in several caliber, no data, but I know its burn rate & can use starting data for a faster powder that does have data & work my loads up comparing vel to the book data. Been handloading for 45 years without incident. I currently load for 3 wildcats & my 404jeffery, pretty much a wildcat.

New reloaders lack the experience you mentioned....thus they should stay with known loads at the start.

New reloaders are not demonstrating common sense if they acquire a wildcat. Lack of common sense in the purchase decision may migrate to lack of common sense in load development.

In my case, the only time I have had to go “off the reservation” is for low powered loads. I had the experience to know what powders could do that safely.

For the majority of folks reloading, there is no need to experiment. What someone with over 40 years of experience can do may not apply to the new crop of reloaders

[Wolfdog91]

Indeed, the man is a thinker. Wouldn't it be great for several members to meet at a restaurant for a meal together to share ideas? There are several members here I'd like to meet.

Lol y'all would pull your hair out dealing with me [smilie=l:

[414gates]

A basic guideline when you have to have an odd load of something, is to look at the load data for a case with similar capacity, of the same bullet diameter, and close bullet weight.

That can form a sensible basis for when there is no specific load data.

You should never load blind. If you picked up a jug of some powder from somebody who had it lying around, even if they tell you what they think it is, just use it as plant fertiliser.

You also cannot make any powder do all jobs. I once came across a fellow reloader who wanted one powder for everything. When everything is from 9mm Luger to 300 Win Mag, it's not a sensible ask.

You may have a quantity of a particular powder, and want to use it in a particular caliber, but the load data has every other powder listed for the caliber, except the one you have. You have plant fertiliser. Get the right powder.

When doing load any load development with smokeless powder, a chronograph is required. A very useful tool for determining maximum pressure loads in virgin brass is a 1 in 10,000 micrometer.

There are people who do not or won't use a chronograph, and all will be well untill something goes wrong because of too high pressure.

[Rcmaveric]

A basic guideline when you have to have an odd load of something, is to look at the load data for a case with similar capacity, of the same bullet diameter, and close bullet weight.

That can form a sensible basis for when there is no specific load data.

You should never load blind. If you picked up a jug of some powder from somebody who had it lying around, even if they tell you what they think it is, just use it as plant fertiliser.

You also cannot make any powder do all jobs. I once came across a fellow reloader who wanted one powder for everything. When everything is from 9mm Luger to 300 Win Mag, it's not a sensible ask.

You may have a quantity of a particular powder, and want to use it in a particular caliber, but the load data has every other powder listed for the caliber, except the one you have. You have plant fertiliser. Get the right powder.

When doing load any load development with smokeless powder, a chronograph is required. A very useful tool for determining maximum pressure loads in virgin brass is a 1 in 10,000 micrometer.

There are people who do not or won't use a chronograph, and all will be well untill something goes wrong because of too high pressure.Lol i feel attacked. Just kidding. Unique and tight group i made work for all caliber from 380 acp to 270 win and 12g. But those were plinking and fun loads.

But yes i ageee with picking the right burn rate (or peak and start pressure) powder for the chosen task.

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[rbuck351]

I inherited 25# of an unknown powder and wasn't about to throw it out. Needing to figure out the approximate burn rate, so I started with the idea that it could be very fast even though it is a large stick powder. Loaded a few grains in a 22H with a cast boolit and fired. It left unburned powder and a very rounded primer. Worked up to a full case with same results. Went to a 223 with same results. Next was a 308 with some signs of burn clean up at full case. 358N next with similar result to the 308. I don't have any large case small bore such as 264 Win mag so I went to a small booster charge of red dot with the rest of the case full of unknown powder. This showed an increase in powder burn and velocity increase. I kept increasing the booster charge up to 9grs and decreasing the unknown which cleaned up the powder burn giving a bit over 2000fps (200 gr cast) and primer still rounded. It is reasonably accurate as well. So yeah,I load off the charts. But I do the same with book loads as well as no other rifle is exactly like mine. I work up loads until I get the velocity I think I should or pressure signs show up. I have a 270 that doesn't like most manuals max loads so I stop early. I have a 350 Rem mag that goes a bit over max with no signs of excess pressure. It shoots most accurate a gr under where I stopped testing. As always, start low and work up. I have been loading for 60 years and I do not recommend new loaders do this. Even with book loads, approach max book loads with caution. Especially with the new short mags as they are using higher pressure to try to get the velocity of their big brothers.

[Winger Ed.]

I inherited 25# of an unknown powder though it is a large stick powder.

Just a wild guess, but that sounds like pull down GI surplus powder from 20mm.
From Mr. Barletts recommendation when he sells it like that is that it's good for .50BMG and belted magnums.

[MT Gianni]

Just a wild guess, but that sounds like pull down GI surplus powder from 20mm.
From Mr. Barletts recommendation when he sells it like that is that it's good for .50BMG and belted magnums.

Large stick powder made me think 5010, indeed a BMG powder.

[Winger Ed.]

Large stick powder made me think 5010, indeed a BMG powder.

Not exactly a rule of thumb, but larger & larger 'sticks' usually means a slower and slower burn rate.
Sort of like the different sizes of grains & speed of Holy Black in relation to the number of 'Fs' it has.

[Kosh75287]

I am not a believer in the chronograph telling you much about how safe a load is. In fact, not a believer in using one at all...even though I own one. But if it works for smarter guys than I, so be it.
If you decide to use one to evaluate the safety of your loads, get a detailed procedure of how to do it, and post it here for comments. I have never seen anything that makes sense.
It sounds like you misunderstand the purpose of the chronograph in determining whether a given load is safe. It is more a determinant of "safe" vs. "unsafe", rather than "more safe" vs. "less safe".
The idea is to plot velocities vs. charge weight and be watchful for a "flattening" of the line, where there is little increase, no increase, or even a DEcrease in velocity with heavier charges of propellant. ANY of these behaviours are fairly certain signs that the maximum load with that charge weight/propellant/projectile combination has been reached, that higher charges are inadvisable and a slightly lower charge weight may be as good as it gets.
Let's pretend that 10.5 grains of "Powder X" gives 1115 f/s with 250 gr. RNFP in a .45 Colt, 10.6/"Powder X"/250 gr. RNFP gives 1151 f/s and 10.7/"PowderX"/250 RNFP gives 1157 f/s. The very small positive change in velocity obtained with 10.7 gr. suggests that 10.6 gr is the safe max, giving similar velocity but (probably) lower pressure than 10.7. Erring on the side of caution and going to 10.5 may even yield better accuracy.
NOW, let's try the same thing with 17.5/"Powder Y"/250 rnfp (1129 f/s), 17.6/"Powder Y"/250 rnfp (1154 f/s), 17.7/"Powder Y"/250 rnfp (1173 f/s). With either propellant, I'm getting ~1150 f/s with the middle load. But the next higher increment with "Powder Y" is larger, suggesting I'm not as close to excessive pressures as I might be with "Powder X". I'm burning ~60% more propellant in loads using "Powder Y", but the extra margin of safety, to MY way of thinking, is worth the extra propellant burned.
At least that's how I approach using a chronograph to determine if I have a safe load.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, Wolfdog91. You seem to be very interested in cast bullet shooting and are asking alot of questions. May I suggest joining the Cast Bullet Association? (CBA) we have a very nice thick book available intitled Cast Bullets For Beginner & Expert by Joseph F. Brennan. Everything about lead bullet shooting from muzzleloaders up to jacketed bullet velocity loads. Plus a nice magazine the Fouling Shot comes every 2 months. I feel anyone who loves lead owes it to themselves to join this interesting association. Just my .02.

[Bigslug]

It would also be helpful to know what specifically Wolfdog91 is trying to NOT blow himself up with.:grin:

I mentioned historical stuff and historical sources earlier.

.44 Special, .45 Colt, and .45-70 rounds that were developed in the black powder era for black powder firearms. Those are well known examples and there are often different "levels" of load data for them in certain manuals to reflect loads that have been worked up in stronger, modern guns (Redhawks, S&W 29, Ruger No.1) vs the original Peacemakers and Trapdoors.

The 6.5x55 and 7x57 Mauser rounds were developed in the earlier iterations of Mauser's bolt actions before his cookie dough was fully baked with the 1898. As such, the published load data for them is based around the strength of the older guns. Chambered in '98's, Ruger 77's, Remington 700's, you can start gentle probing the borders of the reservation.

My point is that you want to educate yourself on the limitations of your launch pad, before you go looking into the limitations of the rocket. Remember that the .357 and .44 Magnums are lengthened versions of the .38 Special and .44 Special - - developed not so they could hold more powder, but so the hotter loads couldn't fit in the chambers of the older guns not rated for them. One of the common cartridge debates out there is .44 Mag vs. .45 Colt, and it always gets clouded by the black powder origins of the 80 years older Colt round and the early guns chambered for it. In circumstances like that, you have to really treat them like completely separate rounds for completely separate guns, as "Ruger Redhawk/Blackhawk" only loads can junk a Peacemaker in short order.

[Rcmaveric]

My point is that you want to educate yourself on the limitations of your launch pad, before you go looking into the limitations of the rocket

Made me chuckle. Good word choice.

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[Wolfdog91]

It would also be helpful to know what specifically Wolfdog91 is trying to NOT blow himself up with.:grin:

I mentioned historical stuff and historical sources earlier.

.44 Special, .45 Colt, and .45-70 rounds that were developed in the black powder era for black powder firearms. Those are well known examples and there are often different "levels" of load data for them in certain manuals to reflect loads that have been worked up in stronger, modern guns (Redhawks, S&W 29, Ruger No.1) vs the original Peacemakers and Trapdoors.

The 6.5x55 and 7x57 Mauser rounds were developed in the earlier iterations of Mauser's bolt actions before his cookie dough was fully baked with the 1898. As such, the published load data for them is based around the strength of the older guns. Chambered in '98's, Ruger 77's, Remington 700's, you can start gentle probing the borders of the reservation.

My point is that you want to educate yourself on the limitations of your launch pad, before you go looking into the limitations of the rocket. Remember that the .357 and .44 Magnums are lengthened versions of the .38 Special and .44 Special - - developed not so they could hold more powder, but so the hotter loads couldn't fit in the chambers of the older guns not rated for them. One of the common cartridge debates out there is .44 Mag vs. .45 Colt, and it always gets clouded by the black powder origins of the 80 years older Colt round and the early guns chambered for it. In circumstances like that, you have to really treat them like completely separate rounds for completely separate guns, as "Ruger Redhawk/Blackhawk" only loads can junk a Peacemaker in short order.

Egh nothing in general really . Pistol rifle magnums the process in general is interesting. I haven't really specified anything because seem to be the best way to get folks on here talking and more infor out there. Seems every time I even just name off a rifle or caliber and an example I just get a abc deal ( not that it's a bad thing just doesn't help me much most of the time)and the thread dies

[Bigslug]

Egh nothing in general really . Pistol rifle magnums the process in general is interesting. I haven't really specified anything because seem to be the best way to get folks on here talking and more infor out there. Seems every time I even just name off a rifle or caliber and an example I just get a abc deal ( not that it's a bad thing just doesn't help me much most of the time)and the thread dies

I guess the first thing I would throw out then is to ask "What AREN'T you finding data for?"

The 50th edition of Lyman's manual is turning out to be a hugely valuable thing because it has - for example - pretty standard data sets for jacketed bullets in the .30-06, and it ALSO has VERY DIFFERENT load data appropriate to loading the same cartridge with cast. If you poke around in there for the "closely related animals" that resemble your oddball project, you're well on your way.

If you seek widely enough, you'll probably find you're not the first person to go down whatever road you're planning to travel - you just have to find their trail markers.

[rbuck351]

Yeah, I have a friend that loads for a 50BMG and had some 5010. Measuring the powder kernals, they matched 5010 and after testing, I believe that is what it is.
I also bought a # of powder (gun show) in a can marked with a magic marker as H110. It didn't look like H110 or any other powder I have seen. Again I started with about 3grs in the 22H with a 40gr boolit and worked up to 4.5grs which makes a nice 22lr replacement round. I still don't know what it is ( it appears to be in the fast pistol powder range) but I have found a good use for it.

[Winger Ed.]

Being you have 25 pounds instead of a few 1 or 4 pound containers----
there's REAL good chance that it's GI pull down/surplus.

Back in my .50BMG days, I'd buy 4 eight pound jugs at a time from Mr. Bartlett.
They came in what reminded me of plastic anti-freeze bottles.