Finnishing Pine aka softwood furniture

[Rcmaveric]

I am self taught worse than amature carpenter.

I dont understand finnishing wood. When to use a varnish or when to use a wood oil. I built beds for my kids out of common board (aka pine). Now i need to finnish it. Should i stain and varnish it. I am horrible at staining, so I might skip that and varnish.

In my head i think i need to preserve the wood so it doesnt deteriorate over time. The mechanic in me thinks oils when i ponder preservation. I want these to last. I spent the last 2 months building and designing.

I am also buulding murphy desks. How i learned I suck at staining. But this polyacrylic finnish is really nice disregarding bad stain job.

When do i use what? Do i need to preserve or coar the whole peice? Like the back or insides of the bed? Does wood degrade over time indoors like it does outside, like dry rotting?

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[Rcmaveric]

Images of what i am doing. For those experienced. I realized the mistakes i made. The complete murphy desk is the one i made for my wife is the guinea pig. I need to replace the top. I tried to recycle scraps but hard lessons were learned on flex and grain direction and how nad i am at staining and how messy i am with glue.

Plus side if you line them up you can clearly tell i got better at staining. Lessons were learned and mistakes made.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220125/d85e658ee20f5c38d20a01c7f490c4ea.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220125/05085a28f15d9b4a9b07f5892d04d61e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220125/a207d9ce0578511728f3aff5060ad39a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220125/b299576e3a42f82f76838350e84a7458.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220125/90b384272249458ffd10eb4897faa28b.jpg

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[Rcmaveric]

Thats a picture of one bed set. There are two. One for the boys rooma and one for the girls.

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[wv109323]

Pine never stains evenly. It leaves dark knots and light and dark areas. If you dont like staining then a clear finish may be the way to go. If would take a very long time for the wood to dry rot if kept inside, so no finish is an option. Experiment on unseen parts of the furniture or left over scraps to get the finish you like best.

[GregLaROCHE]

If you are not interested in changing the color, you can keep it as simple as a coat of wax.

[Rcmaveric]

Does the oil and/or varnish prevent the dry rot or the wood from decaying over time?

I was looking at either tung or Danish oil. It look easy and i could wipe down the whole thing quickly inside and out.

Maybe i am not understanding what causes wood to decintigrate over time.

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[dale2242]

I have used a prestain on pine in the past to prevent the blotchy uneven effect .

[GhostHawk]

I tend to stay away from finishes, varnishes and stains.

I prefer a more natural feel to my wood.

Wood Butter

Ingredients

4 ounces pure beeswax - measured dry; I bought pellets
16 ounces of mineral oil - typically packaged with 16 liquid ounces per container.

Instructions

Bring a large saucepan filled with water to a gentle boil.
Place your beeswax inside a 2 quart glass measuring cup or a 1 quart glass jar; set the glass into the gently boiling water.
Place the container of mineral oil inside another medium saucepan filled with water and heat to low.The mineral oil just needs to be warmed to mix with the beeswax; no need for a rolling boil.
Once all the wax has melted, turn off the stove and carefully add the warmed mineral oil to the beeswax;stirring with a spoon to combine.
Using a towel around the handle of the measuring cup, carefully pour the liquid into each jar fit with the canning funnel; filling them almost to the top.
Finish filling all jars and wait for the was to cool and firm up before using.

I prefer walnut oil, sunflower oil, coconut oil, canola oil or a blend of the above.

Put on a layer, let it soak in. Wait a few hours. Polish with an old terry cloth towel. Some will get removed. That is ok.

I like Old English Oil Dark if I want a darker color. You can put it on first or blend it with the wood oil.
The oil and wax will gradually dry to a hard protective finish. But it is not plastic. It does not insulate me from the wood.

I have used this for everything from kitchen spoons, to walking sticks to wooden shelves.

You can also use Hemp oil but it will give it a greenish color.

[Wayne Smith]

If you want to keep the wood natural a simple coat of clear polyurethane, let dry, sand lightly and recoat and you are finished. It is the easiest and most durable clear finish available. The oil based polys will provide a slight yellowing effect that many like, the water based will give you a crystal clear finish. Your choice.

If you don't care to keep a natural finish paint is the traditional finish.

[MrWolf]

If you want to keep the wood natural a simple coat of clear polyurethane, let dry, sand lightly and recoat and you are finished. It is the easiest and most durable clear finish available. The oil based polys will provide a slight yellowing effect that many like, the water based will give you a crystal clear finish. Your choice.

If you don't care to keep a natural finish paint is the traditional finish.

This. Polyurethane is probably your best bet. They make polyurethane stains and finish in one step so pick a color and apply. Good luck.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If you want a darker finish that's even, this simple technique is about as non-traditional as it gets, but has worked well on cheap plywood and 2x4's ...and I 'm sure it'll be fine for 1" knotty pine boards.

Sanding sealer
then
tinted polyurethane varnish

PS, most people paint that pine.

[fixit]

They cost a bit more, but I'm fond of alcohol based stain, it penetrates when nothing else will, and it dries fast. Go to the leather store, and you'll have the rainbow at your disposal.

[Outer Rondacker]

I use Hood Finishing Systems out of NJ. Check out the website it cannot hurt.

[Shawlerbrook]

On Woods like pine that stain blotchy, try first a coat of Sealcoat, which is just diluted unwaxed shellac. Another option is the minwax poly’s with stain .

[sparky45]

I'll second what Shawlerbrook said.

[bangerjim]

I have been finishing all species of wood you can name since I was about 8 years old. "Good old" pine does NOT take stains well at all due to the wild grain and growth patterns of hard and soft woods in the piece of wood. You need to seal the grain with a diluted shellac and alcohol mixture usually 1 part shellac to 6 or 8 parts alcohol. Brush on and let it soak in and dry for a couple days (depending on your climate). Then use a pigmented wiping or brushing stain. (I hate the stuff and never use it, but Minwax is perfect for pine finishing). IT is almost like paint - you have to mix and stir it before and during use and it covers up most of the grain. Avoid alcohol stains, as they dry too fast and leave horrible brush marks and streaks. If you can find them, use Non-Grain Raising (NGR) stains, which are actually aniline dyes that due a beautiful job. I use exclusively the Mohawk brand of finishes. Protect with at least 2 coats of clear polyurethane finish. That is the stuff that protects and preserves wood, not a stain.

But alas, most people just PAINT pine furniture due to the inferior finishes that usually result.

There are many excellent books on wood finishing out there. Check a book store.

[blackthorn]

To address your question on deterioration (dry rot), in 1979 I built a storage shed on my cabin property, At that time I was on a VERY limited (read pay day to pay day) budget. I worked in a specialty plywood manufacturing plant where we overlaid a base panel with a very thin layer of exotic veneer, i.e. Oak, birch, teak etc. we also did a lot of knotty pine. The pine veneer was shipped in crates made from the leftover cants (when they were too thin to get more veneer slices from them). I collected these crates and sheeted my shed with those boards (board and batten). It has never been painted and it is still as good (albeit whether-stained) as when I built it. In the absence of moisture, wood (especially kept inside) should never deteriorate.

[Ickisrulz]

You might consider painting. I used to be one of those guys who stained and top coated with polyurethane all my projects. Now I work a lot with poplar and finish up with a couple coats of paint.

[farmbif]

there are lots of ways to finish wood. the thing with stain on a big project is you need to have enough. I used to watch my grandfather finish furniture that hew made.
an old cotton tee shirt and sopped on the stain then a clean cotton rag and wiped it all down good. seems back in those days the smallest can I remember seeing was a quart but gallon cans much more common. then after letting it dry a couple days he would use a fine natural hair brush and apply either shellac or varnish.
today its not so easy to find real shellac or varnish seems most stuff is poly.
some stuff with good woods like mahogany he would just rub it down good with paste wax.
I recently built a giant oversized spice rack out of cedar recently. I just soaked it down with a minx stain wiped it off good and its good to go, for me anyway

[pworley1]

When working with pine and poplar I usually dilute an oil stain half and half with mineral spirits. This will usually keep the blotchy spots from forming. You can apply additional coats to get a darker look. Then finish with poly.

[jimlj]

Looking at the pictures I'd say the prep work was lacking more than your staining ability. It looks like you didn't get the glue off the boards before you applied the stain. Some type of a sanding sealer will help with even application of stain. I have long since ditched the brush when applying stain and dip a piece of old terry cloth rag in the stain and work it into the wood grain. Let it soak for a few minutes and wipe it off. Wipe it off before it starts to dry or you will have a mess. As others have said pine is hard to get a uniform color when staining.

Wood with no finish or protection will out last the kids, grand kids and great grand kids if kept indoors. I have found boards in my father in law's barn that were likely 70+ years old that were as good as one cut yesterday.

[15meter]

Repeating what was said in post 21, there is a lot of glue that is preventing stain from penetrating.

Sanding sealer will also help get a more even coat.

During glue up:

1: less glue so less squeeze out.

2: let the squeeze out remain on the joint in the little bubbles that form until dry then scrape them off with a putty knife.

3 scrape the glue off with a putty knife while still wet the wash the joint thoroughly with water changing the paper towel/ rag with fresh water several times.

4: final sand about 3 times long than you think is necessary to get all the glue.

One of my prior lives was teaching Jr/Sr high school woodshop. Toughest thing was to convince the kids to sand way more than they did to get down past the smeared glue.

Look at "gel stains", they go on with a rag or paper towel. They seem to give a much evener coat. No brush marks. Same way with the varnish. The gel varnishes go on much smoother with considerably less dust.

And more coats that the can calls for. Typical american varnish will say two coats, "three if necessary". Good european marine varnish says to start at 7 coats.

Spend as much or more time on the sanding and finishing and you'll be much happier.

For my boat work with brushing varnish I usually figure 10 is a nice start. Or three coats of epoxy with a special "clear coat" hardener then 4 coats of marine varnish.

Gun stocks is 15 coats as a minimum with the gel varnish. The nice thing about the gel varnish, properly applied, there is almost no dust in the finish(even in my dust filled shop) and I have applied 3 coats of finish in a day on a gun stock. While turning on the wood lathe 10 feet away between coats.

I've used a lot danish oil, just not on pine. It is too porous. It leaves a dull flat finish unless you put on MULTIPLE coats to fill up the wood. Leave the oil finishes to the denser hardwoods.

[shooterg]

Paint 'em - let the kids pick the colors.

[georgerkahn]

Congrats on your efforts! Not having much (any?) $$$ at the time, I tried my hand at making ALL the kitchen cupboards we have out of #2 pine. I used an oil stain, a couple coats of orange shellac, and then sprayed with lacquer. Other than a corner or two which our dog (a chocolate lab) gnawed at (???) -- the held up as good as noon. My first cupboard had the door panel glued to the frame, and in the winter it shrinks, opening a 3/16" shrinkage-crack. All the others, I left free-floating -- no problems!

I concur with Jim -- Post #16 here above... you may wish to (re?) read it.

Something to add, is if I was building as you are -- 'specially for children -- a "worry" I would have would be from the outside in. Huh? The stuff which comes in cans like MinWax are not the only stains! It is amazing how little grape juice it takes to stain a piece of pine deeper than you can readily sand out (ask me how I know this ;)).

I kind of fell in love with a sealer I used throughout my knotty-pine walled camp -- it is called Polycrylic, Water based so funes are not an issue; available in satin (my choice) or gloss; and, fairly affordable. A couple of coats makes the wood attractive -- I used no stain -- and provides a zero permeability layer to ward off unintentional staining.

[15meter]

Per post #24, there are homemade stains out there also. I made a water based stain decades ago by steeping a cigar in water for a week. Very light brown stain.

Steel wool in vinegar for a week makes a black/grey stain.

There are heaps of recipes floating around in the ether. Just have to look for them.

https://www.thebasicwoodworking.com/10-diy-wood-stains-that-are-homemade-easily/

[Hogtamer]

More sanding, less staining. Shooterg (2 posts above has the best suggestion but let the wife in on the decision too! Everybody happy!

[bangerjim]

One very old stain used during the Arts & Crafts era of furniture building is bitumen stain. All it is is a hunk of black tar dissolved in paint thinner in a thin soupy consistency. Brush it on - it soaks into the grain - accents the grain - and you wipe it off. Many pieced of early furniture were finished like that back in the day. Especially open grains like oak. Any time you see old pieces with that beautiful brown chocolate finish with dark grain, that is the stain!

Another one is black walnut husks - if you live in the Midwest, they are everywhere in the fall. Just soak them in paint thinner or laq thinner and make you dark brown walnut stain. REALLY stains your hands!!!!!

But all stains must be sealed & protected with a couple three layers of top finish - either shellac, lacquer, varnish, or today's modern polyurethane.

[popper]

As a kid (early 50s), we did knotty pine walls of our bedroom, very large room for 3 kids, desks and book shelves. Sanding sealer is your friend. Stained with a very LIGHT wash stain over the sealer so character of the wood stayed. Some kind of shellac (non-gloss) over it. Did the same for cheap pine night stands for each of us. Folks moves out in the 90s, walls still looked great.

[Wayne Smith]

One other thing to consider and not yet stated - treat both sides of the wood evenly. If you don't uneven absorption of atmospheric water will cause warping.

[Handloader109]

I'm late, but it isn't your stain at all. It is totally the Pine and your gluing /pre finish techniques. When you glue up, be more careful. And a Damp rag to wipe off the excess won't hurt the wood at all. You have to sand or scrape off all the glue excess that is on the surface near the joints. Get off before it dries is best, use that damp rag. Also, you can eliminate most blotchy spots by using a prefinish before you stain. minwax has one for pine. But it won't help getting stain below glue. Otherwise the stuff looks good.....

[Rick Hodges]

My vote for pine is minwax poly semi gloss. A plus is it is water clean up. Simple, fast, long lasting, and doesn't let the wood absorb spills and dirt like bare wood. Easy to clean.

[WRideout]

For small projects that I wanted to finish in a walnut color, I just rubbed on brown shoe polish, then let it dry and rub off with a rag. Have also used it to hide nicks in brown finished wood furniture.

Wayne

[reddog81]

I'd go the painted route also. Let the kids pick out the colors and have them help.

And good job on building the stuff. Looks like a few of the things I've built over the years - basic but functional.

[samari46]

I've heard of using Skoal smokeless tobacco in paint thinner and also pecan hulls. When shelling pecans the outer covering stains stains my hands brown. On pine I use a pre stain as sold by Minwax. It helps the pine to evenly absorb the stain. Minwax sells stains like honey oak, and other light colored stains. Truth be told, I like a varnish better than stain. Spar varnish, or marine varnish. But with pine, it always takes more than a few coats to get an even finish with varnish or polyurethane. Just the nature of the wood, and sanding sealer helps to seal the wood but you have to sand that also to get an even finish. Frank

[samari46]

I've heard of using Skoal smokeless tobacco in paint thinner and also pecan hulls. When shelling pecans the outer covering stains stains my hands brown. On pine I use a pre stain as sold by Minwax. It helps the pine to evenly absorb the stain. Minwax sells stains like honey oak, and other light colored stains. Truth be told, I like a varnish better than stain. Spar varnish, or marine varnish. But with pine, it always takes more than a few coats to get an even finish with varnish or polyurethane. Just the nature of the wood. Sanding sealers do work, but have found they also need to be sanded as well. Then I use varnish or polyurethane over it. Frank

[trails4u]

I say go with what ya' got, brother.... You're busting your ass to do what's right for your family, and while they may not appreciate the way it looks today, they will someday learn to love every one of those little 'imperfections.' It's not the perfect paint/stain/varnish that makes a home....it's the guy and gal doing their best, sharing their love, and not sweating the small stuff! I think it all looks fantastic, my friend!

[am44mag]

Pre post warning: I'm going to add a few videos and articles to this post. You don't have to watch them, but you might find them helpful. If you REALLY want to get into woodworking, I'll list a few YouTube channels at the bottom of this post that I've learned quite a bit from.

Staining pine requires a specific technique and usually some special products like wood conditioner (pre stain) to do it right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfeAxUfoEdE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjPX1byriM8

Paint is much easier, but is still not quite as simple as brushing on a coat or two. The knots in that pine have a nasty habit of eventually ruining your nice, consistent coat of paint. They will show through if you don't deal with them. Primer is how you deal with them.

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/house-one/21558584/how-to-paint-bare-wood

You will also want to pick up some wood filler to get the wood as smooth as possible. Pine usually had some trouble areas in it that need filling. Use a piece of sandpaper against a flat object like a block to make sure you don't dish out the wood in areas that need extra sanding. Lightly sand between coats too as the paint will probably raise the grain. Start at around 100-150. Go up to about 220-320 grit on the wood, and use 320-400 grit between coats.

If you like the natural look of pine, then use a clear finish. A lot of people here suggested Polyurethane. I used to use the oil based stuff a lot, but don't anymore. There's 2 main reasons for that.

1. It tends to tint everything under it yellow. On dark woods, that doesn't matter. On light woods, it really matters.

2. I found it unforgiving of mistakes, and repairs are not easy.

Wipe on poly is easier to work with, but pine is a thirsty wood and it's going to soak up quite a few coats before you finally build a good film on the surface.

I like lacquer because it tends to be clearer, and it is much easier to deal with. If you spray or brush a coat of lacquer over a old coat, it basically melts into itself and becomes one single layer. This makes repairs and fixing mistakes very simple and easy. Brush on or spray on is up to you. I tend to buy the aerosol cans for more small to medium sized project. I've never been great at brushing on a finish. I really like the Watco brand lacquer.

Also pro tip. Glossy finishes show every little imperfection. Satin finishes can help hide them though. Something to consider if you go the clear finish route.

One last option, dye. Dyes are less likely to come out blotchy like stains on pine. I made an American flag out of pine boards a few years ago, and used red and blue dye for it. It basically just evenly tinted the wood those colors. It came out very nice, and even.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5ygOsqYsOY

Whatever you use, be sure to dispose of any rags properly. They can and will spontaneously combust if just thrown in a pile.

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2009/05/08/how-to-safely-and-not-so-safely-dispose-of-oil-soaked-rags

Have fun and be safe.

__________________________________________________ _______________________

Recommended viewing:

Woodworking for Mere Mortals (great place to start)

https://www.youtube.com/c/stevinmarin

The Wood Whisper (Kind of like a modern New Yankee Workshop)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKp44bWWZIiOPShPN_ytShw

Stumpy Nubs (More technical info)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCstwpLSByklww1YojZN-KiQ

Fisher's Shop

https://www.youtube.com/c/FishersShop

Rex Krueger (Working with hand tools)

https://www.youtube.com/c/RexKrueger

Paul Sellers

https://www.youtube.com/c/PaulSellersWoodwork

The Samurai Carpenter (Generally more advanced stuff)

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheSamuraiCarpenter

Pask Makes

https://www.youtube.com/c/PaskMakes

[David2011]

The woodworkers above are all excellent resources. My personal preference for an easy clear finish is Deft Brushing Lacquer. It smells like any lacquer so good ventilation is necessary but it’s forgiving to apply, dries fast, sands very easily, provides good protection and is easily repaired if damaged. It adds no color of its own.

For durability it’s hard to beat oil based polyurethane like Varathane. It takes at least 12 hours to dry between coats, 24 is better. If applied too heavily the drying time increases by multiple days but that’s easily avoided. I really like it for the countertops in my shop because of the durability. It has a golden color unlike water based polyurethane and clear lacquer.

For a good finish including staining, wood must be sanded until it’s buttery smooth. Rough spots and tear-out areas will stain very dark.

[Rapier]

If you do not want a grainy, knotty look, do not use knotty pine, use fir. If you slop glue on pine, it is not coming off and it will not take stain. the trick to gluing a stain project is to use very little glue, or stain prior to assembly. Use a rubbing stain so the stain as applied appears a bit more uniform.

[Good Cheer]

For pine furnishings I've always preferred painting.
When I find gallons at an unclaimed freight warehouse I'm in hog heaven.
Besides, I use hand saws, wood rasps, fillers, glues. I'm not above deck screws.
So a few coats of paint can be a good thing.:drinks: