Need some help...uberti 44 cal

[Bnt55]

Got a buddy that offered these to me brand new never shot he says they're 44 Cal black powder with accessories how much do you think these are worth? I don't know what model they are, I have zero experience with BP wheel guns, other than I think they are cool.

[Markopolo]

They are cool…. How much did he tell you he wanted fer em? you buy them both, and I will buy one of them off ya…

They are Uberti 1858 44 cal RB pistols.. vey cool and sellable.. but you gotta like the extra work required…. They are easy to cast for if your tooled up for casting.. caps are pretty hard to come by these days, so you might have to sit on them a while if you dont have everything you need to shoot ‘em

[DCB]

Can not tell much from the pictures. the one on the left looks like a 1858 Remington> have seen them priced from $500 to $800

[Bnt55]

Yes they are 1858 new army, he sent box picture. It's too good of a deal to pass up plus he has bullet mold and powder along with 25lbs of lead and some other accessories all for a really good price. Guess I'm gonna have to learn how to load for BP....all I need is another hobby...ha

[Baltimoreed]

My very first revolver was a Hawes 1858 c&b which got traded into a ROA. They are fun.

[Bnt55]

Do they use a brass case to hold bullet and powder?

[Tar Heel]

Do they use a brass case to hold bullet and powder?

No. They are Cap & Ball revolvers. Muzzleloaders. You have some homework to do. :-)

You can find the current retail value on MidwayUSA.

[Thumbcocker]

I have a blue Uberti. It is a shooter. Be advised they tend to shoot high and load development or a taller front sight might be needed. Very cool guns.

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[cwtebay]

Here's the conversion kit if you wish to make it to fire cartridges.

1858 Remington Conversion - Conversion Cylinders - Hand Guns
https://taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/cartridge-conversions/1858-remington-conversion-cylinders.html

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[Bnt55]

Yes I do have some homework to do, I was planning on getting into wheel guns with a Colt peacemaker type....guess Ill just start in the prior century:p

[Bnt55]

Well, got my twins! Is there a sub-forum on CastBoolits that deals with these kind of BP guns, I don't want to post in the wrong spot and I have a few questions....well alot of questions. Think I did good on this deal, 2 brand new 1858 Ubertis, 2 Lee molds (round ball and conical), Jug of black powder (FFG), 100 caps, Box of 100 .451 hornady round balls, two powder flasks all for the price of one Uberti.

[sharps4590]

I would think either here or muzzleloaders would be a perfect place to post. As you're started in handguns I'd just stay here.

Yes, you did well! FFg is not generally recommended for revolvers but it will work just fine and safely. Only thing is velocity will be a little slower than Fffg but that won't hurt anything either. Black powder is immensely forgiving and you can't get enough of any granulation in the cylinder chambers to do any damage to anything.

If you can find any, I'd try either Fffg real black powder or Fffg Triple 7. From what I understand, percussion caps are about as hard to find as primers so that might hold you up.
I much prefer the round ball to the conical in persuckshun revolvers. The conical can be fun to play with but accuracy is almost always better with round balls. The directions that came with the revolvers should be as good a place to start as any. Read them first. After that I'd think anything you want or need to know can be learned here.

[Bnt55]

Thanks Sharps! I am looking forward to playing around with them. I noticed in the instruction book that came from Uberti, they recommended soaking the gun in hot water and dishsoap while cleaning!!? Is this something you guys do for cleaning black powder fouling?

[Froogal]

Thanks Sharps! I am looking forward to playing around with them. I noticed in the instruction book that came from Uberti, they recommended soaking the gun in hot water and dishsoap while cleaning!!? Is this something you guys do for cleaning black powder fouling?

I've dabbled a little bit with black powder cartridges, but shoot a lot of smokeless in .45 Colt. The best and easiest way I have found to clean after shooting either BP or smokeless is to disassemble, soak everything with Ballistol, rinse thoroughly with HOT water, and then use a bore snake and some cleaning patches to make sure everything is dry. Soap and water will not hurt the gun. Just make sure to dry it all out before putting it up.

[Tar Heel]

After removing the grips, I disassemble the entire gun and put the parts in a hot water bath with some Meyer's Clean Day Lemon Verbena dish soap in it. Regular dish soap will work but the Meyer's works best. That's a fact! Scientists proved it and 9 out of 10 doctors recommend it.

Scrub everything real good to get the BP fouling off. Brush, scrub, use a toothbrush, bore brush, small brushes and for the inside of the nipples, use a pipe cleaner. After all the parts have been scrubbed, I move them to a hot water bath with a dollop of Ballistol in it. It turns milky. I lift the part out of the moose milk and blow it off with a shop air compressor. Boom - it's now oiled too!

Reassemble the gun carefully and place choke tube lube on the nipples before you reinstall them. Just a little bit on the threads will do. I use white lithium grease or just plain gun grease on some of the high friction areas. Just a little bit mind you, not gobs of it.

Tighten the nipples gently. Just a smidgen of torque will do. DO NOT crank down on them with all your might. Just snug them into place.

Wipe the guns down and apply a thin film of Ballistol to the gun. Use it on the grips too. I have been using that stuff since the 80's and my guns look brand new after I clean them. I shoot the guns a lot too. If you clean them well and faithfully, the guns will NOT corrode and will retain their luster and look for generations!

Some specialty cleaning supplies for BP revolvers:

1. Correct nipple wrench for the gun. For the 1858, Track of The Wolf sells wrench NW-130 (https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/65/1/NW-130) for the 1858. I think it is about 9 bucks. Other (incorrect) wrenches will booger up your gun AND the nipples.
2. Tooth brushes
3. Nylon bore brushes for bore and chambers.
4. Gunsmith Screwdriver Kit with CORRECT sized blades.
5. Choke Tube Lube
6. Pipe Cleaners
7. Cotton Cleaning Patches
8. Ballistol Oil

I shoot both RB and Conicals. To get started, just stick with RB's.

And no kidding, all you need to clean them is hot soapy water. WATER is the solvent you need for BP residue and salts. Cleaners made for smokeless powders and jacketed bullets will adversely interact with BP residue.

Enjoy those beautiful revolvers.

I would suggest moving this thread to the Black Powder section. May get you more visibility and replies.

[Bnt55]

^^^^^Very good info!! Thank you so much, that helps alot, I will get a nipple wrench on order.

[Maven]

Good information here! Also, I think Ubertis require a .454" RB.

[sharps4590]

What Tar Heel said can't be improved upon.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Prices range from $200+ to $400 or less depending on maker, Midwayusa, Dixie Gun Works, most online sellers of gun stuff carry several styles of the cap and ball revolvers as they are 'NOT FIREARMS' in Federal Law terms, some states may vary. There is an outfit that sells a kit to make your own caps. Some folks on this forum have had success with them. I have one but have not tried it yet. There are many listed on Gunbroker. The 1858 Remington has quite a different feel from Colt style revolvers. Blackpowder or one of the imitation black powders are necessary. Lead balls .454 for the '44's usually work. They are entertaining but shooting speed is rather slow, five or six fast single action shots, then a reload, one cylinder at a time.

[bedbugbilly]

End labels on the box should tell you exactly what they are and the model number. Repros are often times available in a variety of finishes - i.e. blued, some are made in stainless, antique finish, etc.

Value? Find the info on the box label and take a look at such places as MidwayUSA, Dixie Gun Works, Cabelas - that will give you a general idea of what they sell for. Same for the components that your friend has to go with them.

[Bnt55]

Well shoot....

I have 3 Lee molds I was going to try with this gun

Lee 451RB = .451"
Lee 450-200-1R = .450"
Lee 452-255-RF (not sure if this one would work)

I also have some 45 cal molds that drop around .453-454 but they are standard bullets. Should I slug this barrel to see what I need or is that not necessary on BP guns? What about powder coating to increase diameter?

[Tar Heel]

Well shoot....

I have 3 Lee molds I was going to try with this gun

Lee 451RB = .451"
Lee 450-200-1R = .450"
Lee 452-255-RF (not sure if this one would work)

I also have some 45 cal molds that drop around .453-454 but they are standard bullets. Should I slug this barrel to see what I need or is that not necessary on BP guns? What about powder coating to increase diameter?

Simple. Shoot .454 RB's. Shooting the others as "conicals" will frustrate you immensely since they do not start straight in the chambers. Bear in mind that any cast bullet in a percussion revolver should be cast of PURE LEAD. If you want to shoot conicals, see the bullets from Eras Gone Bullet Molds - namely the English Kerr (https://www.erasgonebullets.com/store/product/-44-english-kerr-) bullet. See that rebated base? There is a darn good reason for that!

Forget all that stuff for smokeless. For your BP guns, use PURE LEAD. Do not put lip stick on the bullets.

The .451's may get ya started but seriously, you should get some .454 RB's from TOW. You NEED to shave a ring of lead off the bullet when seating it in the chambers.

[Dave T]

Yes I do have some homework to do, I was planning on getting into wheel guns with a Colt peacemaker type....guess Ill just start in the prior century:p

Not giving you a hard time, just a minor historical correction. The Colt Peacemaker (more properly known as the Single Action Army) was introduced in 1873. Your "Remington New Model Army" was introduced in 1858. That's 15 years difference, not a different Century. (smiley face goes here)

Dave

[Bnt55]

^^ Sounds like you're giving me a hard time....:kidding: LOL

I bet the guys using the old style cap and ball pistols thought the Colt M1873 was from a different century with the ease of a self contained metallic cartridge, and the ability to fan fire when you're being filmed on the set of a Hollywood Western!! All jokes aside, I was talking with my 16 yr old about the nerves of steel these old timers must have had during the early wars, while being shot at, they had to load each cylinder then cap the nipples in order to return fire. Talk about stress.