Pine wood derby car time

[country gent]

I just got an e-mail from a local wood shop supply. They will use their cnc router to cut out your sons pine wood derby car fora fee. And notify you when ts done, I remember them coming into the shop every year in batches. Now a business is offering this service.

What started out as a project for young boys to learn and grow was taken over by the Dads now businesses. Just what are the boys learning having the cars made for them.

When we did my sons we did use a mill and power tools, but he did all he layout work cranked handles and followed the lines he laid down. All I sis was supervise and make sure he worked safe. ( you should see the grin on 8 year old face running a bridgeport). When roughed out it was then time to file in and sand to finish.

These kits can be assembled with simple tools and the boys can learn a lot from doing so. Where is the pride and sense of accomplishment they get from hands on. Just watch a younger kid showing Mom And Dad the arts and crafts from camp or the shop project from school, Now that there is a real smile worth its weight in gold many times over.

[rbuck351]

You are right on target. This is a subject that has bothered me since my boys made their own pine wood cars 35 years ago. The urge for some parents to assist more than a little seems too much for them to resist. Our cubs pine wood derby had a separate class for the parents. That helped a bit but didn't stop it completely.

[georgerkahn]

Our local school district dismantled all its shops -- God know where their magnificent tools went (or ;) to whom?) -- and replaced them with computers, computers, and more computers. While, prior, students could get a leg in on home repairs, carpentry, auto mechanics, the beautician trade, and so on -- NOW, they learn... computers, cumputers, computers.
I remember making belt hooks, bird houses, electric motors, router jigs, and even fishing lures in public school shop. In cub or boy scouts we made those ubiquitous wood cars...
But all on all -- in school and at scout projects -- parents/teachers always just made sure safety was #1; and, were available to answer any questions.
We learned!
geo

[bedbugbilly]

What a shame that it has gotten to this point. I can remember the pine wood derby project very well - we were given the pieces of square cut wood - 4 wheels - the two axle pieces and blued lath nails for the wheel axles - and that was some 60 plus years ago. My Dad "advised" but I did the work. Now it appears that it has turned into a business all about "competition" and not about a young boy leaning some skills and working with his Dad (or Mom) to give some father or mother/son time.

I was a shop teacher and later owned a custom millwork/woodworiig shop and did finish carpentry. The schools abandoned "shop classes" for "technology classes" - i.e. computers. Now we have several generations of kids who never had the opportunity to take shop (or home-ec) who many of them can't perform the simplest of repairs around the home - can't measure, can't estimate materials, etc.

Thank God there are still some parents and grand-parents who take the time to with their kids/grand-kids to teach them basic skills. Makes a person wonder how "WOKE" the various scouting organizations have become.

[XDROB]

When my son was in Cub Scouts we were very successful in turning out very competitive cars and always made into the regional races. We built them together but he did all the work. The only thing I did was tuning the axles. Getting rid of the ridges to prevent drag on the plastic wheels. Also polishing the area where the wheel rested. One trick which is not covered in the rules is how many wheels/tires had to touch the track. So after the first car we built all the others only had three touching. One front wheel was lifted a tiny bit so it didn't touch. Meaning less drag. Another trick was to drill a small hole right behind the axle touching the track and put some lead weights in the add weight to keep it planted.

I do not have any of mine, but we have saved all of his. He has a son of his own now and he is hoping that Cub Scouts will still be around when he is old enough to join. And hopefully Pinewood Derby is still around.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[country gent]

georgegerkahn, All the local high school shops were auctioned off to the highest bidders here and a lot of the older tools and hand tools were sold for scrap. All those old planes clamps saws files rasps and such. All those fine tools gone, all the learning experiences gone, all the pride and accomplishment gone.

Our local high schools shops kiss of was when a student got bad cut. It was deemed to be to dangerous even though he was doing what he had been told wasnt safe. The shops were deemed to high risk.

The metal shop when I was in school we did welding turning milling and in one corner was muller, furnace, forms, sand and we did sand casting in aluminum and brass. In the summer some students and the teacher actually used this shop to repair school equipment ( desks football equipment, lockers, ) same with the wood and plastics shop. when the bus mechanic needed a hand students from the auto shop went out to help.

[pworley1]

My son and I always had fun building them. I always bought 2. One for each of us. His local troop had one class that was scout made and another that was dad made.

[Baltimoreed]

My wife and her best friend were Cub Scout Den Mothers and the first year we had a Pinewood Derby a cub turned up with a turquoise ‘57 Chevy. Beautiful work but obviously not his. The following year we had a kids division and a dad’s division and had a great race day. Kids got a trophy. Dads got to brag. Sorry to see something as important as a father and son bonding event getting turned into a way to make money with my neat cnc machine thing. Still have the 6 cars my son and I built in my wife’s curio cabinet. He’s 44 now.

[country gent]

I worked in a small job shop in school with 2 old craftsman. (I swear they could figure out about anything) this shop was mostly flat belt machines. I asked them one day how thy knew a job was done. Both answered when you re willing to sign your name to it.
These 2 men taught me a lot along with my Dad an grandfather as to pride and craftsmanship. The one Saturday Dad came up to the shop, to pick up a part he had had fixed. The Boss came out shut the machine down I was running and The other guy and Dad were standing at the bench waiting. First thought thru my head was Im in trouble. Then the Boss handed me a brown paper bad. In it was a white apron He smiled and simply said in this shop you made it. It was then up to the local bar for a couple beers to celibate. Shame Grandpa wasnt there to see it.

For the new fathers here. I remember more of the Father Son projects Dad and I did on the farm than any vacation we went on. Those old nickel cokes and peanuts at the elevator dumping grain, building or fixing something in the barn. figuring out and making a new tool and the beer or pop we would sneak when taking a break.

[richbug]

That time of year here too. The dads with jig saws and band saws will bring them to tonight's meeting so those with out tools can still help their kids build cars.

The "factory" built(ebay) fancy cars started showing up a few years ago, It pains me when they win best of show(chosen by popular vote with the kids).

Same goes for the factory tuned (ebay) cars. We have a few dads who are really good at tuning, but these cars cut more corners than I care for.

[Paf]

I am a middle school shop teacher and have helped with my share of pine wood derby cars over the years. Fun projects for the students to say the least and a lot of learning for them as well. I even opened the shop up in the evenings for students/fathers to come in to offer assistance (had students design their cars and I rough cut them out on the bandsaw). From the comments that I read above earlier; I also saw my share of father's taking over the projects!

I also agree with the comments about seeing shop programs closing down. It's been that way (decline) since I first started teaching back in 1989. "Every child needs to go to college to be successful" was the message that was being promoted to students. Of course, I always thought this to be wrong. However, this must be changing, since public schools are now promoting CTE (career technology education). Tons of money is coming into our programs. I have seen more money spent in my shop during the last five years on new equipment ( CNC routers/plasma cutters, laser engravers, etc. ) than the entire time prior. Some school districts near mine are even building new shop buildings/programs. The biggest problem is finding teachers to fill such positions.

[bangerjim]

The idea is to have the BOY make his own personal car, no some computer gadget that belongs to someone else and the programming done by someone else! I did PWD cars for my 2 sone for many years, but only supervised and advised, never actually doing any of the work for them, although I had ever power and hand tool known to man in my shop. I showed them HOW to use the hand tools to accomplish the tasks. They had four #1 cars in the batch over the years! All done ONLY by my two boys. And believe me, living here in the silicon desert, there were a lot of "book-learned" only engineers that thought they knew how to make and tune a PWD car!!!!!!!! :roll:

[ACC]

I just got an e-mail from a local wood shop supply. They will use their cnc router to cut out your sons pine wood derby car fora fee. And notify you when ts done, I remember them coming into the shop every year in batches. Now a business is offering this service.

What started out as a project for young boys to learn and grow was taken over by the Dads now businesses. Just what are the boys learning having the cars made for them.

When we did my sons we did use a mill and power tools, but he did all he layout work cranked handles and followed the lines he laid down. All I sis was supervise and make sure he worked safe. ( you should see the grin on 8 year old face running a bridgeport). When roughed out it was then time to file in and sand to finish.

These kits can be assembled with simple tools and the boys can learn a lot from doing so. Where is the pride and sense of accomplishment they get from hands on. Just watch a younger kid showing Mom And Dad the arts and crafts from camp or the shop project from school, Now that there is a real smile worth its weight in gold many times over.


The reason it has become what it is is because parents will sue over anything. Last year at camp I ran the rifle range. We had scouts that would not follow the rules so they were banded from the range. I can't remember how many times the camp director was told that they were going to sue the council because their little angles didn't get to shoot on the range.

The Scout movement has become, I am afraid, and easy target for Lousy lawyers.

ACC

[MaryB]

I am a middle school shop teacher and have helped with my share of pine wood derby cars over the years. Fun projects for the students to say the least and a lot of learning for them as well. I even opened the shop up in the evenings for students/fathers to come in to offer assistance (had students design their cars and I rough cut them out on the bandsaw). From the comments that I read above earlier; I also saw my share of father's taking over the projects!

I also agree with the comments about seeing shop programs closing down. It's been that way (decline) since I first started teaching back in 1989. "Every child needs to go to college to be successful" was the message that was being promoted to students. Of course, I always thought this to be wrong. However, this must be changing, since public schools are now promoting CTE (career technology education). Tons of money is coming into our programs. I have seen more money spent in my shop during the last five years on new equipment ( CNC routers/plasma cutters, laser engravers, etc. ) than the entire time prior. Some school districts near mine are even building new shop buildings/programs. The biggest problem is finding teachers to fill such positions.

When I went to high school I took electronics. 3 years of it, the program was rated better than the local vo-tech, I also took metal shop... yeah I wasn't your traditional student at the time. I was the first girl to take metal shop LOL We also had computer programming, took 3 years of that too. Year 2 and 3 of electronics and programming required teaching first year students. Teaching it made sure we knew the subject matter. Plus we had to do projects, in electronics we had to design 1st year project kits, make the circuit boards, kit the parts together in bags... basically learn to manufacture multiple products for our "customers" to order. Programming I had to turn out a major project that could span 2 years, I wrote one of the first PC based word processors that a grad student at the UofMN turned into a finished product(giving me credit for the basics of the program)...

All stuff very few kids have access to now. I learned what it was like to deal with a customer, learned what it was like to be part of a programming team working with the grad student(and I earned a year of college credit!)... life skills I used once I was out of college!

Now kids are indoctrinated with political crap!

[country gent]

I agree that the cub scouts / boy scouts have been a target for lawyers and other groups for a long time now. I also believe these groups finding fault and pushing the all are equal, ( not exactly how I mean to say it as every young person deserves a chance to try)are robbing our young people of a lot of IMPORTANT experiences and learning. Do they need to be a master with hand tools no but the basic working knowledge of them all need and will benefit from in everyday life. I see youngsters that cant fold a simple paper airplane. Let alone the beginning shop projects like a napkin holder, magazine rack, key fobs and a bunch of others.

There is a lot to be said for a few callouses, a little dust dirt on knees, Even a occasional thumped thumb or nick. This is the one important way the young learn by doing and following examples. Some skills cant be taught any other way.everyone excels at different things but the only way to find out is for them to DO many varied things.

[Thundarstick]

Your serious? A knife? You want a kid to learn to use a knife? OMG! Power tools! You're going to be maimed for life boy!

Sometimes I'm shocked I survived with all my digits intact! My Grandma taught me how to sharpen a knife rite after I learned to pull down my paints to pee! I do remember her telling how her brother lopped of the end of his thumb splitting kindling, and showed me how to use a sissy stick!

[jakharath]

The first year my kids were in Cub Scouts, everyone got trounced by two dad-built cars. The second year my kids got first and second place. My daughters (yes, I have a girl in Cub Scouts. She'll bridge in a few months.) car got second place, should have had first but she didn't afix one of her weights as well as she should have. She lost a weight before the race started. This year we got first and fourth. Not sure what happened to get fourth place. Had to have a bad wheel or something. Sadly, my girl got 4th on her last year to complete. Been trying to figure out how to build a small track cheaply to troubleshoot the car.

I run the power tools. Not comfortable letting a 7 year old run a scroll saw. The kids design, sand and paint the car. We split (or try to split) the tuning after it's built.

Some irony, on race day I helped fix the two cars that beat my daughter.

[Shawlerbrook]

I am 65 and this same thing happened when I did it. I did my with the only help of my dad supplying the hand tools and paint. Some had custom professional paint jobs with clear coat. I remember one judge noting that mine was one of the few actually done by a 7 year old and wanting to award me. He was out voted. Same thing as Little League parents.

[farmbif]

I think that is so wrong for todays kids to have the block of wood cut on a CNC by for hire outfit. how are these kids going to learn how to use their hands to craft something themselves.
and all the school shop equipment, yeah, I watch it being auctioned off on govdeals.com every week from schools across the country.

[LaPoint]

I also have fond memories of 'helping' our son make his pinewood derby cars. The middle school and high school where I work has huge shops. They just increased the size of all of their shops. They start with hand tools and work their way into CNC driven routers, lasers and plasma cutters.

[Baltimoreed]

Looks like a rule change to ‘hand built’ using ‘normal’ woodshop tools would be in order.

[lightman]

Wow, The Pinewood Derby has come a long way. Back when I was Cubmaster my boys built a few winners and a few stiff competors with my minimum help. Mostly supervision when they were using the bandsaw. We raced on a homemade wooden track that I built. The night of the races we tried to ham it up. I borrowed traffic cones and barricade tape from work to surround the track. All of the officials wore hazmat suits to look like pit crew mechanics. My Wife even sang the National Anthem and announced "Gentlemen start your engines". Yeah, we had a few parents that built their Scouts cars and a few that wanted to argue when the scale showed their cars to be over weight. I was the Cubmaster and just pointed to the rules!

Now we're still going to the races but its to watch the Grandsons race. The track is a factory built aluminum track with 3 lanes, an electronic starter, Christmas Tree like a real dragstrip, photo finish and the times, speeds and places are piped to a laptop and projected on the wall like a powerpoint presentation. And yeah, Dads are still building cars and arguing against the rules.

I never thought about having professionally built cars or cars for sale on Ebay!

[CastingFool]

I have to admit that when my son had to build his pinewood derby car, I did most of it. I told him I was the mechanic, and he was the driver. Lol. We came in 2nd, not bad for my 1st pinewood derby car.

[CWME]

Not all is lost with the program. I open my shop every year for anyone that wants to come and get help with their car. I have had kids from four different packs come in and build cars. The kids design their car on paper and then layout the cut lines on the car. Myself or the cubmaster cuts the cars to shape on the bandsaw. A piece of sand paper is given to the Scout and they are instructed on how to sand that chunk of wood smooth. Axle polishing is explained and demonstrated to the Scout while the paint dries. I have a small paint booth setup with spray cans for them to paint the cars. Basic colors are provided. From there we weigh the car body, axles, and wheels to see how much weight they need. Cast boolits are used for the weight. 255gr Lee 45 boolit to be exact. We now attach the axles and wheels to the car. I hold the wheel with the axle in the hub and the cub hammers it in. The Scout then applies their graphite and a couple test runs on the track to see how it goes. If they are happy with that then they are race ready. At all points of the build the Scout is instructed on why things are beneficial to speed. They make the decisions. My process helps prevent the parents building the cars and gives teachable moments for the Scouts. By the third year they roll in and get to work without much assistance. The race times are VERY competitive in our pack as most of the cars are built in my shop.

[Winger Ed.]

Both my boys did the pine wood derby in cub scouts.

I took the instructions literally. The kids decided on the basic shape, I cut them with a radial arm saw,
then they sanded the top of the car until they got tired of it. After that we marked off some designs and they painted 'em.
Once dry, I went to work polishing the axles and pouring molten Lead in 1/4" holes going side to side between the axles.
I had a high end scale, and finished their weight to 3.99 ounces.

The first year, we had race day and there were 'Dad' cars the kid had never been allowed to touch, and looked like
very, very good models of real sports cars.

Ours was a little more humble in appearance to say the least.
My oldest was clearly disappointed in his own.... I told him, "Don't worry about it. We came to race, not to win a beauty contest".

They ran four cars at a time,,, four times. Once from each of the 4 lanes of the track.
He felt a lot better after he'd won all four of his races by half the length length of the track.

The next years, the other Dad's got with the program about the importance of the wheels & weight.
We still won all three of the annual races, but after the first year, the competition did get better.

[GregLaROCHE]

I always thought it was important for kids to grow up with bicycles. All the basic mechanical skills and concepts learned from maintaining one, would be an asset in life.

[MrWolf]

Did that as a kid. Didn't get any help and it looked it but I did it. I do remember someone getting nailed for using lead weights and cheating. It was supposed to build character, not how to cheat or cut corners. Parents do not realize they are not helping but are making things much worse. Just as guilty latter in life helping my kids probably more than I should have, but we try and make things easier for them which actually can hurt in the long run.

[fixit]

I admit, I did most of the work on my kids car.... Complete with pretreating the axles with spray on moly. In the pre race runs, nobody could get close to our car's speed, then I gave the axles on more shot of moly, and ruined it.....the carrier fluid for the spray is a solvent, and I didn't consider that it would melt the wheels! Consequently, my son barely placed.

[country gent]

When my middle daughter started looking for a job The LGS was hiring. The owners and I were very god friends. She decided to apply.I told the owners that more important to me than her getting the job was that after they give her pointers on where she excelled in the interview and where she need to make changes or work on things. Funny thing is she made down to the final 2. But the critique of her interview has helped her more than the job would over the years.

In town there was a retired gentleman who for something to do spent his days rebuilding bicycles and selling them. Nothing fancy but they were nice, many kids bikes came from him. Families that were down the kids could pick a bike from the pile. Bill would then help them rebuild fix paint it on Saturdays or over the summer. For the basic bike and parts the kids helped in his shop and cleaned for him. Occasionally he would have them bring odd arts over to the shop to have welding done or bearings pushed on or off. You would see those kids cleaning sanding tapping dings out with a huge smile and dirt smudges on their faces. The shine in those kids eyes and the pride they took was something to see. When those kids finished their bikes up they not only had a nice bike they knew how to care for and fix it. Bills kids as we called them would stop in after school and help him even after they had finished their bikes. He had both boys and girls that built their own bikes. We kept a small helmet in the welding area so when the kids came over they could watch us weld their parts or what we were doing.

Kids learn by doing and a good mentor can really get them started out on the right path. Guiding them down the right path can make all the difference.

[popper]

Didn't have pine derby when I was a kid, just soap box derby. Took wood shop, metal shop when in school. Pretty much had the woodworking down pat by then, jig saw and lots of making 'stuff' in the basement by then. Even used the table saw under supervision. Did have a kid lose fingers in the planer in H.S. His fault. Learned lathe, gas & stick arc welding, casting in metal shop. Went on to auto shop, rebuilt a '37 V8 including using the boring bar to go 60 thous. over. One kid get some Desoto hemi's and we bored them out. Put them in hot rods. Even got to take buick and Olds auto trans apart and put back together. Did several manual rebuilds also. Kids nowdays don't even know how to change oil or plugs.

[Gator 45/70]

Pine wood derby's? When you live in the flat lands with no hills then there isn't a derby...But

We did have shop classes, When drilling holes in spoons swiped from the cafeteria I can reliably tell you that the number of times the knuckles will be slapped before you can get that paw out the way is several...and that's a fact!

[Brick85]

I just got an e-mail from a local wood shop supply. They will use their cnc router to cut out your sons pine wood derby car fora fee. And notify you when ts done, I remember them coming into the shop every year in batches. Now a business is offering this service.

What started out as a project for young boys to learn and grow was taken over by the Dads now businesses. Just what are the boys learning having the cars made for them.

When we did my sons we did use a mill and power tools, but he did all he layout work cranked handles and followed the lines he laid down. All I sis was supervise and make sure he worked safe. ( you should see the grin on 8 year old face running a bridgeport). When roughed out it was then time to file in and sand to finish.

These kits can be assembled with simple tools and the boys can learn a lot from doing so. Where is the pride and sense of accomplishment they get from hands on. Just watch a younger kid showing Mom And Dad the arts and crafts from camp or the shop project from school, Now that there is a real smile worth its weight in gold many times over.

Boy, that sounds like the ancient Chinese art of Chi-ting. I remember when we did the Space Derby, my dad handed me a potato peeler and told me to carve my rocket. It actually won despite the professional looking competition from the son of an auto body repair guy.

They are locally offering a workshop where kids can go and get help using the tools to make their cars, but even that feels a little off to me. I guess if there isn't a bandsaw around it makes sense, but I do have one. I think we'll be doing the car in the basement again this year.