Hornady Brass ...What's the deal?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've heard many times, Hornady's 45-70 brass is shorter than other brands. But I thought that was specific to that caliber. I seem to recall having some Hornady branded 500 S&W Mag, I don't recall them being short? or maybe I didn't notice? It's rare I come across Hornady brass in my range brass pickups or used brass purchases. This weekend, I am cleaning up and sorting some 357Mag brass from a recent purchase from a fellow castboolits member (this is no critique on the deal, I am happy with the deal). I sort and store all my brass by HS, and load by batch (per same HS). As I am storing all this 357Mag brass, there is some Hornady's in there, I find a baggie in my stash that had some 357Mag Hornady's in it, and I had marked that baggie "short cases". I measure the cases I had just sorted, and sure enough all the Hornady's are short.

The Question are:
Are all Hornady's brass short?
Or just certain calibers?
and why do they do this?

[jessdigs]

In the case of the 45-70 they shorten the case of the lever revolution rounds to make them feed and cycle with the ogive of that bullet. I can't speak to the 500. I have only dealt with shor 45-70 cases.

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[TurnipEaterDown]

I guess you'd have to define "short".
Just what are the measurements that are getting the brass labeled "short", and do you know (being pick ups) that they came from factory loaded ammunition?

Hornady does make Spitzer bullets for the 444 & 45-70 (and other calibers/cartridges) called "FTX". To do this and deal with factory loadings needing to run through standard rifle designs, such as these two being in lever guns, they shorten the brass to get a SAAMI acceptable COL.

By looking at the Hornady product catalog that just came in my mail Saturday, it appears that Not All of the FTX offerings are actually Spitzer. The 444 & 45-70 I have seen are, but in the product catalog it appears that some of the FTX have what appear to be a rather blunt polymer ball at the front rather than a Spitzer profile. Actually, this makes a lot of sense, as the Spitzer FTX in 444 had been listed with a BC not too much better than the corresponding weight traditional Hornady (the now seemingly discontinued 265 Interlock) and certainly worse than the 300 XTP HP which can also be used. My initial guess would be that with the (apparently) blunt FTX the insert is relied on more to produce reliable initiation of expansion than betterment of BC.

Skimming through the pictures in the product brochure seems to display pointed FTX being used in 500 S&W, 460 S&W (though I think this was initially offered in a "pointy" conventional bullet, so FTX version may not have a short case), 41 rem mag (looks to be very deeply seated, possibly to avoid shortening case), 450 Marlin, 45-70, etc.

Frankly, the FTX seemed a bit gimicky to me in general, while offering some reasonable performance increase in some specific instances.
I say gimicky, as I don't really understand the point in trying to add yardage to a 45-70 or 444 Marlin. These really aren't long range deals, though I suppose that "long range" is also subjective, and if the new bullet design helps extend the PBR on a game animal 15-20 yards it might be a good thing with general hunting public range estimation errors.

[megasupermagnum]

@TurnipEaterDown, SAMMI voluntary standards defines the 357 magnum cartridge as 1.290" with a minus .020" tolerance. I use that definition, and anything under 1.270" is short. I do not recall exactly what Hornady 357 magnum brass is, but it is under 1.270".

I too have found all Hornady 357 magnum brass to be short. I have no idea why. The only Hornady 357 magnum ammo I ever bought was their normal 158gr XTP load, and it says nothing about lever guns on it. I've also noticed short cases in other cartridges, although I can't recall which ones. The 44 magnum brass is short too. I'm sure I have some 41 magnum somewhere, but don't see it right now.

It's a shame, since Hornady brass is quality. They are consistent, and their annealing is on point. It's not Lapua quality by any means, but I'll take Hornady brass in any bottle neck cartridge, where they are trimmed to a normal length.

[lightman]

I have some 223 and 308 brass thats the correct length. I haven't measured any pistol brass but I have some. I may have to check it.

[rondog]

I've found that their whole LeverEvolution line has short cases, regardless of caliber. So keep an eye out, otherwise you'll have rounds with little to no crimp. Especially in .357mag, .44mag, .45 Colt, and .45-70. Several others too, I'm sure.

[dverna]

Good thread. I was not aware of this issue.

All my pistol ammunition is "non-critical" 9mm, 38. 357 and .40 so I do not sort cases and I do not measure case length. I am anal about rifle cases but so far have not found Hornady brass to be short on OF .270 cases I purchased.

[quilbilly]

They do the same thing with 444 brass.

[megasupermagnum]

I really doubt anything like 9mm or 45 acp is going to be short. I have never found a bottleneck case that was short. Hornady is my choice for 6mm remington. It's only the straightwall cases that are often short from Hornady.

[Bmi48219]

I never looked close at their bottleneck cases, have enough Fed & GFI 9 mm & 45acp to where I don’t keep any of those by Hornady. If I’m selling mixed HS brass I make a point to advise if that lot contains Hornady. Their 357, 44, 45-70 & 45LC that I’ve seen were all noticeably shorter than other brass. I guess they aren’t interested in who uses their brass after it’s been fired once.

[nicholst55]

I have encountered distinctly different lengths in .45-70 brass in different headstamps - Remington, Winchester, Starline, and Hornady. Now, this is with older Remington brass, so I don't know if this still holds true. Hornady is shortest, Remington is next, then Winchester and Starline are pretty much the same length.

[BK7saum]

It is my understanding that ammunition load with the FTX bullets will be shorter regardless of caliber. the shorter brass is to crimp into the groove and allows a longer ogive. I may be wrong on some calibers, but I believe this is an FTX bullet/brass fitment issue.

[shell70634]

Does Hornady pay for brass by each or weight. A million pieces of shorter brass could possibly be a substantial savings. I have run across alot of hornady loads with short brass, mostly straight walled using the leverlution type bullet. I don't keep track of it but just throw them in the hornady short brass box and trade later.

[megasupermagnum]

Does Hornady pay for brass by each or weight. A million pieces of shorter brass could possibly be a substantial savings. I have run across alot of hornady loads with short brass, mostly straight walled using the leverlution type bullet. I don't keep track of it but just throw them in the hornady short brass box and trade later.

When cases are made, they are drawn long, and trimmed back. I really doubt the miniscule extra shavings they could sell as brass scrap is any factor at all.

[kerplode]

It is my understanding that ammunition load with the FTX bullets will be shorter regardless of caliber. the shorter brass is to crimp into the groove and allows a longer ogive. I may be wrong on some calibers, but I believe this is an FTX bullet/brass fitment issue.

This has mostly been my experience as well. I think perhaps a more accurate statement is "Straight-wall cartridge cases for calibers loaded with FTX bullets will be short"

I have Hornady brass for 45-70, 357Mag, 44Mag, and 45 Colt that are all short. Their 30-30 brass that I have measured, though, is not.