9x23 winchester

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I went to a yard sale today and saw a lot of hunting and fishing gear. I asked the man if he had any ammo he wanted to sell. He said he had ten boxes of 38 Super he wanted to sell. When he showed me the box it was marked 9x 23 Winchester. It has a 125 grain bullet at 1450 FPS. I have never heard of the cartridge. What is it?

[Rick R]

9x23 Winchester was an attempt to create a more 1911 friendly cartridge that was capable of “making major” in IPSC. It gets there but at 55K PSI. The cartridge got caught up in a law suit that lasted until after IPSC changed the power factor for major down to a level 9mm could hit. After that there wasn’t any call for the 9x23 for competition.

I for one want a Commander sized 9x23mm with a ramped barrel, I just haven’t gotten up the gumption to start a new project.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Thanks Rick. Glen

[Kosh75287]

That's dangerous. What if a .38 Super owner buys the ammo, accepts on that guy's word that the 9x23 Winchester ammo is .38 Super, chambers a round and touches it off?

[Screwbolts]

That's dangerous. What if a .38 Super owner buys the ammo, accepts on that guy's word that the 9x23 Winchester ammo is .38 Super, chambers a round and touches it off?

I don't live in your "What If" world that you so Dangerous. LOL

[Ithaca Gunner]

That's dangerous. What if a .38 Super owner buys the ammo, accepts on that guy's word that the 9x23 Winchester ammo is .38 Super, chambers a round and touches it off?

The 9x23 Winchester will chamber in a .38 Super and can cause havoc particularly in a standard G.I. type barrel, it's not really interchangable as it can run slightly longer from the factory. Certain precautions are built into the guns, mainly ramped barrels, stronger main spring which retards the unlocking, stronger recoil spring and firing pin spring along with a recoil management device like a ''Fire Dragon'' recoil management system and maybe even a muzzle brake. A set of grips containing a steel or metal plate is also recommended as well as careful build in general. It's much the same as the .38 Super Comp round being truly rimless rather than semi-rimmed like the standard .38 Super and requires a tweak of the extractor to function properly. I was told by a member on the Colt forum that such modifications ''throw the timing off''. EXACTLY! The reason for doing the modifications is to retard the timing where the barrel and slide are locked together, plus the ramped barrel more fully supports the case, and the .38 Super Comp brass has a thicker head area than .38 Super +P brass.

There are powders available today which bring the .38 Super into and above the 9x23 Winchester magnum range of power, (presumably in standard cut barrels-though my Super has all but the muzzle brake upgrades built in, and it's stainless steel). V-V N105 Super Magnum powder lists a MV of 1,501fps out of the .38 Super with a 124gr. Hornady FMJ-FP bullet with 10.4gr. powder. They don't list the 9x23 Winchester with N105 and the closest it comes is right around 1,400fps with a 123gr. FMJ Lapua bullet. They do not list pressure in their data, nor do they say what type of barrel was used in testing.

Yes, I load my .38 Super warm, but not to levels listed by V-V, otherwise I may as well shoot a 9x19 Luger +P and enjoy a 17 round magazine capacity. The ideal velocity for the Hornady XTP 124gr. bullets do not need to be pushed faster than 1,300fps and expand very well at 1,250fps. I like the 147gr. XTP and do load that one to near max at just over 1,200fps in my SS ramped barrel Gov't Model Super.

www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160

www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/handgun-reloading/?cartridge=42

http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl38sup.pdf (AGAIN-these are special made guns, not stock factory)

[gwpercle]

That's dangerous. What if a .38 Super owner buys the ammo, accepts on that guy's word that the 9x23 Winchester ammo is .38 Super, chambers a round and touches it off?

Why you should own a copy of "Cartridges Of The World" ...
7th Edition has 12 different 9mm handgun rounds ...and 16 different 357/38/380 rounds listed .
I discovered many Editions ago in this game of shooting and reloading you need to know one 38 / 9mm from the next ... That's at least 28 Handgun rounds all total with 357 / 38 / 9mm in the name.
After buying loading manuals and reloading equipment ... "Cartridges Of The World " was the next purchase ... and they have sure come in handy over the last few years .
Gary

[David2011]

9x23 Winchester was an attempt to create a more 1911 friendly cartridge that was capable of “making major” in IPSC. It gets there but at 55K PSI. The cartridge got caught up in a law suit that lasted until after IPSC changed the power factor for major down to a level 9mm could hit. After that there wasn’t any call for the 9x23 for competition.

I for one want a Commander sized 9x23mm with a ramped barrel, I just haven’t gotten up the gumption to start a new project.

While your statement about USPSA allowing 9mm to make major power is correct, that’s not the complete story. The only way 9mm makes major is with handloads. The powder choices are very limited and the pressures are far above SAAMI specs. USPSA only allows 9mm major in the unlimited class which means the guns have compensators and optical sights and are typically based on the 2011 frame.