Final Step for casting and needed equipment

[gifbohane]

Ok I have been hoarding lead for 5 years. I bought a Lyman smelting pot in 2016 and reduced wheel weights and sinkers to 100 or so ingots. Bought a dipper, Lyman Handles and single mold for 9mm.
It seems that I only need to find a way to lube the bullet (or do I need to?) I am stuck on the final steps to casting and reloading 9mm. I have 2 manuals including the Lyman Casting.

Should I seek an RCBS Lubing tool (they seem to be unavailable.) Or just buy some chemicals for coating? Will my Lyman die allow me to coat?

My eyes glaze over on Bullet hardness theories. How important is this in the process?

Any help to get me started will be greatly appreciated.

[454PB]

A few years ago, I would have suggested you start with Lee liquid alox, but I've since become a powder coat convert. You will need a toaster oven (I got mine for $3 at the Salvation Army Thrift Store) some powder coat, and a Lee sizing die. Don't worry about alloy hardness for now, just get started, and read all the good information on this forum.

By the way, I have four lubrisizers and dozens of home made sizing dies for them, and I still think the above suggestions apply.

[HWooldridge]

Use the wheel weights and buy a Lee push-thru sizer (either .355 or .356 - whichever suits your bore size). Either pan lube or apply the Lee liquid Alox. Don't overthink it - you can go crazy chasing rabbit trails.

[Glwenzl]

You hoarder! lol

Don’t listen to me because I’m about the same as you only a lot newer.

I couldn’t decide on lube so I ordered in the white lube 45-45-10 deluxe AND some Eastwood Henry ford blue (I am still looking for the oven and maybe mini ice cube trays).

On the hardness thing, I decided to wait but when the times comes it will without question be the LBT bullet hardness tester. The only reason I’m considering it was because I have both WW and Linotype and am curious… thinking I’ll use WWs for pistol and the Linotype for the higher speed carbines.

It’s all out of fun and not necessarily what is perfectly correct lol

[cabezaverde]

If you can find one, buy a Star lubesizer.

[ryanmattes]

For 9mm? Don't worry about the hardness, and get some HiTek coating (and a jug of acetone), a small squirt bottle, and a little convection oven. You can do 5lbs in 20 minutes, perfect coverage every time. Doesn't matter if you overcook them, they'll shoot the same, they just won't be as bright and pretty.

Pictured below: 25lbs of 9mm coated with gold HiTek. Took an afternoon in the garage with a Tupperware bowl, a cheap can of acetone, and a convection oven.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220120/6cf02513b47071b065704f28f15526d5.jpg

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[popper]

Water dropped WW will work. 9mm is high pressure and soft won't do, case is strong/tapered and will size (down)your bullets. lla works, smokes like crazy. PC is great, HiTek works fine for pistol. All my 9mm need 357 size. If your mould is not a rnfp, get a proper seater nose punch. Difficult to seat a rn properly, I got a lot of crooked bullets, even jacketed. You also need a proper expander. You will see the snake swallowed an egg problem without it. Case mouth needs some flare, there are tools to do that. Die is taper crimp and do that after seating the bullet - separate step. 9mm is probably the most difficult to load, but stick with it.

[openbook]

I can't tell you what's best, but I can tell you Lee liquid alox is putting rounds downrange for me in three calibers (including 9mm). If you want to get started, it could be the shortest route from A to B!

Although after reading some of Ben's posts, I do really want to try pan lubing...

[mdi]

I've been casting for a while and still pan lube. I couldn't see a $200.00+ lubersizer and dies ($35.00) and nose punches ($15.00+) for every bullet I cast. I pan lube, use a "cookie cutter", and size with a Lee push through kit. (my first lubing was done with a Lee pan lube kit, long discontinued). Worked OK for me and I just continued to pan lube every cast bullet I made. 32 ACP through 45 Colt handgun bullets and 30 and 32 cal. for rifle bullets.

I have used alox and 45-45-10 on many bullets, including some heavy 44 Magnum loads. Only drawback for me using tumble lube is I don't like the brown noses on m handloads, so I dip lube.

[wv109323]

After you arrive at a satisfactory cast bullet you need to properly size and lube the bullet. The sized bullet needs to be .001" over ACTUAL bore size. That can be .356 to .359, 9mm bores are not consistent. A wild guess is probably .357 diameter. If powder coating size after coating. Powder coating can be as simple a powder coat, a plastic bowl and a toaster oven.
Other lube that is simple is Lee Liquid Alox. Just bullets and lube in a Zip-loc bag and then seperate the bullets and let them dry. I would recommend two coats. You need to size before lubing.
Your wheel weight alloy should be good up to 850 to 900 feet per second and maybe more if you powder coat.
Other than that you need to neck size and flare the case mouth to where the bullet can be seated without shaving any brass. I recommend that you seat the bullet to desired OAL without apply ing any crimp. Then back the seating stem way out and adjust the die down to apply the crimp.

[dverna]

I do not powder coat because all my processes, except for casting, are done indoors. Might be perfectly safe but I do not know.

If I was starting, I would try Ben’s Liquid Lube. It is easy and cheap and does not require an oven.

My ultimate goal is to buy a mold that casts bullets that do not need to be sized and use BLL. I only shoot cast in pistol calibers. Cast, lube and shoot. I have enough stuff to make enough BLL to last a lifetime for less than $150...being 71 helps shorten the time line.

[popper]

BLL works fine but for HV rifle needs a GC. Tried it OK in low fps 40sw but not sure it will work for 9mm. BLL does work better than the 45/45/10. And not nearly as messy.

[dverna]

BLL works fine but for HV rifle needs a GC. Tried it OK in low fps 40sw but not sure it will work for 9mm. BLL does work better than the 45/45/10. And not nearly as messy.

It might take two coats, but I plan check it out. Even with two coats it would be easier than any other method.

[danmat]

A few years ago, I would have suggested you start with Lee liquid alox, but I've since become a powder coat convert. You will need a toaster oven (I got mine for $3 at the Salvation Army Thrift Store) some powder coat, and a Lee sizing die. Don't worry about alloy hardness for now, just get started, and read all the good information on this forum.

By the way, I have four lubrisizers and dozens of home made sizing dies for them, and I still think the above suggestions apply.

This is your answer, maybe 50 bucks for a size die and smokes powder and oven, I PC all my 9mm.
My 2 cents.

[remy3424]

I would also start with a .357" sizing die for 9mm, if you aren't able to slug and size your barrel.

[GregLaROCHE]

I would strongly recommend powder coating, however, starting out you could use Lee Liquid Alox and tumble lube before you buy what’s needed for powder coating.

[gifbohane]

I am very familiar with the reloading process, just not at all with Cast Bullets or casting.

For further info I bought a set of Lyman 2 cavity handles # 2735793 and The lyman Mold#2660242 top punch 311 Large capacity for 9mm RN 120 Grain.

I also believe in "buy once, cry once." So price means nothing. Difficulty in the process does concern me. So I want a process that is simple as possible. Going to go with Powder coating IF this lyman mold works with this Hi Tek powder.

Dan mat are you saying that I cannot use my regular Redding 9mm sizing die?

Can I go to a gunsmith to determine barrel width?

AND Thank You all for your comments.

[gwpercle]

I know what you mean about eyes glazing over ... there can be such an overload of info you go snow blind .
I hope this defogs some of it . I been casting for 50+ years and adore doing things the Simple Way.
Don't worry about hardness . Wheel weight metal is fine (I mix WW and soft Lead 50-50) air cool is fine . Life will be easier if you size your boolits , proper sized boolits are important . Lee makes a push through sizer. I size my 9mm Luger boolits .357" ...try different sizes in you gun to see which works best , passes the "plunk test" . After sizing the easiest lube is "tumble Lube" roll them around in the tumble lube of choice ...I used Lee Alox thinned out so it left a thin coat .
Roll them around, let dry , size , roll around again and load . All you need is plastic container and tumble lube of your choice .
You can get into powder coating or convential lube/sizer later , once you have gotten your feet wet with loading . You must have a special case expander for cast boolit seating ... the one in a regular set of dies is for jacketed and lead boolits are larger and softer ...you need an expander for cast in 9mm ...trust me!
I cast for 40 years with just air cooled wheel weight metal , I had a free unlimited supply .
Hardness isn't as important as size in cast boolits in handguns ... in fact a hard undersize boolit will lead the dickens out of a barrel .
Go ahead , get started ... the only way to learn how to cast boolits ...is to cast boolits !
If you mess up ... melt em back down ... Nothing Lost !
Gary

[farmbif]

ok gifbohane sounds like your off to a good start, the numbers you listed are manufacturers numbers, the more commonly referred to mold number for that Lyman mold is 356242, 120 grain rn, the first three digits is diameter and they say the molds are cut so that bullet will drop from mold a few thousandths larger so they can be sized down.. any way yes that bullet has worked for me in 9mm, ive used it. cast of clip on wheel weights, lube sized to .357 shot out of storm lake barrel in a Glock. its been a long Time since I cast any bullets for 9mm but I do have this new lee 356-124 6 cavity mold that needs to be used and a pound of harbor freight red powder paint an old toaster oven some parchment paper, all I need is the plastic bbs and I'll be ready for my first experimental run of powder coat bullets.

as far as sizing die, I dont see why you could not use Redding 9mm sizing die.
sometimes a problem can occur with a seat/crimp die if cast bullet is oversize and the die is too tight it can possibly crush the cast bullet diameter when seating crimping--just something to look out for when your putting your ammo together

[Sig]

Dan mat are you saying that I cannot use my regular Redding 9mm sizing die?
No, the Redding die is for sizing your brass. What you need is a bullet sizing die. If you're powder coating or tumble lubing, look into Lee or Noe push through dies. The other option is to use a Lyman, RCBS, Star or other traditional lube sizer/press where the bullet gets sized & the lube groove filled. These use sizing dies that differ from the ones you would use for powder coating.

Can I go to a gunsmith to determine barrel width?
You probably could but slugging your barrel is a relatively easy process. Do a quick search here & you'll see how straightforward it is.


Hope this helps clear things up.

[Walter Laich]

let us know where you live--could be someone is near by and can show you the ropes.

pan lubing is not too hard and you need a minimum of equipment. can be a bit messy. easy and quick--just my 2¢

[Lakehouse2012]

For 9mm, wax lubes aren't the best choice.

1 they are messy. In automatics that means (depending on outside temp) gumming up you action.
2 cost, time and materials. RCBS or star sizers are expensive in this day, it's a slow process when your wanting to shoot lots of rounds and wax and powders aren't cheap now adays either.

I'd reccomend hitek, or even Powdercoat. It allows you to do 100's of boolits at a time and the cost can start with just a can of acetone, dry powder and a garage sale toaster oven.

Now, if your going to start loading revolver for magnum loads the answer changes dramatically....

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[AndyC]

You need:

A Lee bullet sizing kit (around $20 or so): https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-90046-SIZING-356/dp/B00162UJN4/
A cheap toaster oven
Some powdercoat paint and a few plastic #5 tubs

Simple.

[farmbif]

ok sorry bout the Redding sizer answer
never even thought someone would confuse a resizing die for brass cartridge for a bullet sizing die.
if this is the case new bullet casters can learn

here is link for free book

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

hopefully this can help some

[bangerjim]

Go with PC......it is forgiving on hardness! Don't get "lost in the weeds" like so many new casters do with hardness. 9-12 +PC will probably handle 95% of your shooting needs.

Lee dies are great. I have over 20 sets of different cal's I load for. Don't invest $$$$ in a Star lubra-matic!....if you can even find one. I and thousands of others have been doing PC since around 2013 with EXCELLENT success.

[ryanmattes]

Just a note, I have a drawer full of Lee sizers for all the different bullets I cast. I also have multiple in the same size, that I've opened up with fine grit sandpaper and polish, so that I can have incremental sizes, like .356,. 357, .358. it's a lot of damn dies. All in all, I have almost $300 in sizers.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd get the NOE push through sizer. You get the die body once, for $45, and then you get a $12 bushing for each size. They make bushings in incremental sizes so I wouldn't have to make my own, and they're half the price per caliber. My $300 of sizers would have only cost $200, and I would've saved the time and pain of making all the non-standard sizes.

This is the die body: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/sizing-tools/bushing-push-through-size-die/push-through-size-die-body/

This is the .357 bushing: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/sizing-tools/bushings/357-38cal-bushings/357-38cal-357-body-bushing-b357/

You definitely want to add a Lyman M-die in place of your expander die, if you don't have one. They are ideal for loading cast.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011246697

Hope that helps.

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[gifbohane]

let us know where you live--could be someone is near by and can show you the ropes.



I live in extreme Northern New Jersey, just over the border from Airmont in Rockland County. I would bring coffee and lots of donuts to the sessions.

[GregLaROCHE]

Have you slugged your bore? It important to know what finished diameter you need to aim for. This could effect the diameter of the boolit sizing die you get. There’s plenty of threads about slugging you bore if you use the search engine, if you don’t know about it.
Good luck on your adventure!

[gifbohane]

Ok- Thanks to all of you I just purchased the rest of the needed equipment from NOE. Now I am stuck with a new set of Handles and Mold from Lyman. But thanks to you folks I have all the right stuff.

Now to call Hi Tek.

[ryanmattes]

Don't give up on your mold just yet, cast with it and see what size they come out with your alloy. With a steel mold brought up to the lower end of casting temp and some practice, you might be dropping .357-.358 bullets from it. The size in the name isn't an absolute indicator of the size it drops.

Hotter lead and mold is easier to get good fill out, because it flows more before it freezes. But the hotter the lead, the more it shrinks when it cools. So keeping the mold and lead temps fairly low will often give you less shrinkage, for a fatter final bullet. The bigger the bullet the less that applies, but 9mm is pretty small.

And the handles should work with most brand molds of similar size.

For HiTek, one of these will easily do 10k-15k bullets.

https://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder-3-5-oz-container/

Go check out a HiTek thread for a look at the colors and process. The simplest method is to dump 5lbs of bullets in Tupperware, add a couple squirts of the mixed HiTek (around 1ml per lb), shake for 30 seconds or so, dump them on a wire basket to dry for an hour (or set them on top of your oven while it warms up, 5-8 minutes above 100F dries them plenty), then bake at 400F for 8 minutes. They'll shoot fine like that, or you can do a second coat to improve color and coverage.

Biggest problem with HiTek is it's intended for volume. So I cut the recipe in half, coat 30lbs of bullets, and then the remaining 2/3rds of the liquid sits until it's not worth the effort to re-mix it and I dump it out. I waste far more than I use. It will still work after it sits, but the color has clumped in the bottom and people have to use vibratory tumblers or paint shakers for like an hour to get it back into suspension. So even if I only get 5k bullets out of a tub of HiTek, at 3 rounds for a penny, my time is worth more than the mix.

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[gifbohane]

Don't give up on your mold just yet, cast with it and see what size they come out with your alloy. With a steel mold brought up to the lower end of casting temp and some practice, you might be dropping .357-.358 bullets from it. The size in the name isn't an absolute indicator of the size it drops.

Hotter lead and mold is easier to get good fill out, because it flows more before it freezes. But the hotter the lead, the more it shrinks when it cools. So keeping the mold and lead temps fairly low will often give you less shrinkage, for a fatter final bullet. The bigger the bullet the less that applies, but 9mm is pretty small.

And the handles should work with most brand molds of similar size.

For HiTek, one of these will easily do 10k-15k bullets.

https://hi-performancebulletcoatings.com/hi-tek-supercoat-powder-3-5-oz-container/

Go check out a HiTek thread for a look at the colors and process. The simplest method is to dump 5lbs of bullets in Tupperware, add a couple squirts of the mixed HiTek (around 1ml per lb), shake for 30 seconds or so, dump them on a wire basket to dry for an hour (or set them on top of your oven while it warms up, 5-8 minutes above 100F dries them plenty), then bake at 400F for 8 minutes. They'll shoot fine like that, or you can do a second coat to improve color and coverage.

Biggest problem with HiTek is it's intended for volume. So I cut the recipe in half, coat 30lbs of bullets, and then the remaining 2/3rds of the liquid sits until it's not worth the effort to re-mix it and I dump it out. I waste far more than I use. It will still work after it sits, but the color has clumped in the bottom and people have to use vibratory tumblers or paint shakers for like an hour to get it back into suspension. So even if I only get 5k bullets out of a tub of HiTek, at 3 rounds for a penny, my time is worth more than the mix.

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RYANMattes- Thank You- very helpful. Can you do a batch of say 100 bullets at a time? And do you then put them through a (NOE?) sizer after powder coating? Is it better to size and then Coat? It would seem that if you coated afterwards you would add a few thousands of an inch. Getting there.................

[AndyC]

I run mine through a sizer after powdercoating because I want a specific, finished size to load up.

I PC about 100 at a time because I don't have a huge oven - works just fine.

[ryanmattes]

Yes, size after coating. It both ensures that the coating didn't add diameter (it's usually less than 0.0005 total per coat, so it's not much), but it also means you don't need to use lube to size them, and keeps your sizing die from getting gummed up with lube, or dirtied up with lead that you have to clean out.

Also, you might want to try a few different sizes (.356, .357, .358), so you want sizing to be your last step. I'd only size what I'm about to load until you've determined the right size for your gun.

You can coat smaller batches, but you'll find its not worth it to work that way. You need to cast more than that to get that many good ones, to start with. 100 x 125gr bullets is around 2lbs, so 5 lbs is around 280 bullets, give or take a few. You might as well cast a lot more.

When you start out you'll make more bad ones than good ones, and you'll get a lot of variation in weight due to temp fluctuations. So if you make 100 one day, then come back and make 100 more another day, they're likely to be different weights. So to keep them consistent, I usually try to cast a whole bunch at once. Get into a rhythm, and just keep casting till you run out of prepared alloy or you just get tired.

Then I sort the bad cast out visually. Wrinkles, torn-out bases, edges that aren't sharp, etc. If they're bad enough to be obvious while I'm casting I'll throw them back in the pot, but smaller defects you have to look for. You can do that another day, because once they're cast, they're cast. And then I weigh them all, and try to find a +/- 0.5gn group. You'll have outliers that are much lighter (probably air gaps or bad fill out) or much heavier (you added lead and the pot temp cooled).

To sort by weight, I drew half-inch lines on two sheets of paper taped together, and numbered them for 1/10th grain increments, 0-9 repeating. That way the middle can be my target weight, like 125.0 or 255.0 or whatever, and then I can sort them all around that target weight. Half-inch lines let's be use that sheet for .45 as easily as for 9mm. Photo below.

So generally I'll cast as many as I can at a sitting. The next day I'll sort out the bad ones and weigh them all, placing them on my paper by weight. Then I choose the 1 grain segment that has the most bullets, say for example 124.5-125.5 grains, and toss the rest in my throwback pile, to remelt another day. You can get away with wider variation of you're just plinking at shorter range, but as you get out to 20 yards or so, you'll notice a difference in point of impact by weight.

What you're left with is however many fit in that 1 grain group. If it's only 100 bullets I'm usually disappointed, because that was a lot of time and effort to only get 100 rounds out of.

Now, when when it's time to coat, I shake 5lbs at a time and put them on a wire basket and cook them. While they're cooking I'll shake the next batch and put it on top of the oven to dry, repeat until I run out of bare cast (I usually do 2 coats, for color). After the first coat, I pull one out and smash it with a hammer, to make sure the coating bonded fully, called the smash test. The coating shouldn't flake or expose any lead because of deformation. The hammer or the grit of the concrete might scratch the coating, but stretching shouldn't cause it to come off. You don't have to smash test after further coats, because as long as the first coat is bonded to the lead, the later coating bonds to itself easily.

So you're going to ruin at least one bullet doing that. And then, depending on your alloy, you're likely to drop one or two while you're sizing or loading, and if they land on the edge of the base, it'll dent the base. Bad bases can cause leading, so those go in the throwback pile too.

So you want to cast more than you need, and coat more than you need, to get enough good coated cast to load how many you need.

All that said, there are two other considerations too. First, if you're just trying to do test loads, you only need a handful, right? Problem is, if you develop a load with the majority of the bullets you have, then cast more, they're likely to be a different weight, and it might throw off your load. It's going to take a lot of casting to make more consistently good bullets. And a lot of casting produces a lot of bullets, which means once you have your load figured out, you can bulk load.

And second, coating is much more consistent with consistent size batches. So I try to cast in marathons, like a good chunk of a Saturday or Sunday. Make like 30+lbs of bullets. Treat it as it's own hobby, rather than a precursor to loading. Then on another day I'll sort out the good ones. Then on another day I'll coat them all (twice). Then on another day I'll size them. And then I'll have a few thousand bullets, so I can develop a load, and then bulk load once I've got it nailed down.

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