Smith To Bore Cylinder To Barrel

[AK_Salmon]

First new post:

I have a few Freedom Arms revolvers. I like that the cylinders’ chambers are bored in aligment with barrel, as opposed using timing to align the cylinder with the bore.

Does anyone one know of a currently working gunsmith that would make a new cylinder for my S&W 617, boring the cylinders to align with barrel. Of course I would make sure the work to be done in conjunction with such would include reducing play in lock-up and end-shake.

Maybe my “google” skills aren’t good enough, but I haven’t had success in searching— all roads have led back to Kuhnhausen and Freedom Arms. I thought I once read about a ‘smith in California that’s manufactured custom cylinders, but I haven’t been able to find said post on any forums.

Thanks for any help!

[country gent]

Isnt the 617 a 22 rim fire? Thats going to be a long skinny boring bar to reach threw the ring and cylinder.

[AK_Salmon]

Hadn’t thought about that, but good point. I know FA line-bores, and I think most assume the 22s are line bored also. I may reach out to FA, and see if their 22s are line bored, such as the larger calibers. I don’t want to be chasing a process that just can’t be executed due to doability constraints. Thanks for the thoughts.

(Just sent them an email. I expect quick response, as they are good at that. )

[Nobade]

Might check with Andy Horvath.

Andy Horvath
Diagonal Road Gun Shop
14131 Diagonal Rd.
LaGrange, OH 44050

(440) 458-4369

[AK_Salmon]

Thanks Nobade! Will hit Andy up tomorrow. Even if he doesn’t, he should know if anyone does.

[AK_Salmon]

Straight from FA: “All of the cylinders are line bored the same, no matter the caliber”

Thanks for the provocative (in a good way) question Country Gent. At least I know it’s doable with currently existing tooling.

[Char-Gar]

Line boring cylinder was a big thing some years back, but no longer is. There is a reason why. Any accuracy improvement from a line bored cylinder is very small and not worth the rather high cost.

[Outpost75]

Biggest and most expensive issue will be getting someone who can machine, heat treat and fit a cylinder blank for your 617. Good luck with that. As Charger said, not worth the expense for the minimal gain.

[DougGuy]

Isnt the 617 a 22 rim fire? Thats going to be a long skinny boring bar to reach threw the ring and cylinder.

Normally align boring is done by centering the boring head off the threads in the frame not through the barrel.

[AK_Salmon]

Correct on cost versus gain, but that hasn’t stopped me supporting the gunsmiths, lol.
Not wanting to give more than a ‘smith would offer to do it for, but I’d be willing to pony up some good $. My Freedoms Arms have tight lockups, and little endplay, but I feel the line boring elimates any odd cylinder issues. I have Smith revolvers that I’ve tested chamber by chamber, and found in two cases where one of the chambers had a group of its own. Now that I’m thinking through it, I need to do that test on this specific revolver.
Thanks for the input—you’re helping me think through this a bit more.

[DougGuy]

Cylinders with uneven throats group according to which chamber is being fired. In short, inconsistent throats cause pressure variations, which cause the gun to recoil differently in the shooter's hands, this in turn causes the boolit to strike a different point of impact than a tighter throat, or a much looser throat. The same will happen with uneven powder charges, uneven seating depth, etc. Anything that causes variables, causes inconsistent recoil which opens groups accordingly.


I have Smith revolvers that I’ve tested chamber by chamber, and found in two cases where one of the chambers had a group of its own.

Check the holes that throw fliers, see what is different about them. Many times honing a cylinder and making the throats consistent in diameter, within a couple of tenths of each other, will correct the fliers.

[AK_Salmon]

Check the holes that throw fliers, see what is different about them. Many times honing a cylinder and making the throats consistent in diameter, within a couple of tenths of each other, will correct the fliers.

Thanks for the suggestion Doug. I’ve just been living with it on the two aforementioned Smiths. If I find a gunsmith to line bore for the 617, I was going to send these off too. I just assumed the jig at the factory was getting sloppy at the time of manufacture on these two guns.

[Nobade]

Remember a .22 doesn't have throats. Since it uses outside lubricated bullets the chambers are the same diameter all the way through.
If it is throwing flyers in one or more chambers, check the locking notches and make sure the bolt drops in correctly and completely. Sometimes a notch will get peened over and not lock up correctly, allowing that chamber to be misaligned when it's fired.

[DougGuy]

Remember a .22 doesn't have throats. Since it uses outside lubricated bullets the chambers are the same diameter all the way through.
If it is throwing flyers in one or more chambers, check the locking notches and make sure the bolt drops in correctly and completely. Sometimes a notch will get peened over and not lock up correctly, allowing that chamber to be misaligned when it's fired.

S&W have chambers, rather tight ones at that. With .2245" throats for the most part. I ream a LOT of these. They are NOT bored straight through.

Ruger on the other hand, uses a straight through .227" cylinder. You can guess why ten out of ten competition shooters use the S&W and not the Ruger.

[AK_Salmon]

Wow, some great info here guys. Thanks!

[Nobade]

S&W have chambers, rather tight ones at that. With .2245" throats for the most part. I ream a LOT of these. They are NOT bored straight through.

Ruger on the other hand, uses a straight through .227" cylinder. You can guess why ten out of ten competition shooters use the S&W and not the Ruger.

Really? I gotta go look at my K22 now. I coulda swore they were straight.

[AK_Salmon]

294969

[AK_Salmon]

294971
Took me forever to size this pic to upload. Anyway, this is the FA 97 in 22 LR.

I hope this shoots as good as my two FA 454 Casulls to bring it all back to boolits. I just picked this one up today.

Cheers,
Phil

[Nobade]

Nice! Now there's no need to modify anything else. From what I've seen those shoot incredibly well. Really the only 22LR revolver accurate enough to shoot IHMSA silhouette at the top level. You'll certainly enjoy it.

[AK_Salmon]

Nice! Now there's no need to modify anything else. From what I've seen those shoot incredibly well. Really the only 22LR revolver accurate enough to shoot IHMSA silhouette at the top level. You'll certainly enjoy it.
Haha, no. This one is not going to be modified. Ultimately, the start of the thread arose from the purchase of this gun. I'm looking for a holy grail of a more aesthetically pleasing (in my eyes) S&W, that will shoot as accurately as the Freedom Arms.

I am super glad I ordered the Model 97 though. The 83 is just too much frame, and I find the shortened cylinders of the 83 not pleasant to look at.

Cheers, and y'all have a good weekend!

[AK_Salmon]

Really? I gotta go look at my K22 now. I coulda swore they were straight.Did you ever go back and try to poke a 22 round in the K22 from the front of the cylinder? I've been eying some K22s on GB is why I ask. Thanks!

[AK_Salmon]

Well, just a quick follow-up. I contacted Frank Glenn’s shop, and the person I spoke to said line boring is one of the reasons the FAs are so accurate. And, he said I would have to have an under-bored or unbored cylinder to get it done for my 617-1. Unfortunately, when I contacted S&W, they said they don’t have (I read won’t provide) an unbored cylinder.

I know a couple have said the gain in accuracy wouldn’t be worth the cost, but the difference between 1-1/2” at 50 yards and 1/2” at 50 yards is worth quite a bit to me. The 617 is just a more aesthetically pleasing piece, in my eyes. I like that the Freedom Arms shoots better with cheap ammo than I can do with all the different kinds I tried in my 617. I just wanted to meld the best of both worlds, i.e., “holy grail.”

[Nobade]

Did you ever go back and try to poke a 22 round in the K22 from the front of the cylinder? I've been eying some K22s on GB is why I ask. Thanks!

I had forgotten to get back to you on this...
Yes, the K22 does have a bit of throat. But it's extremely slight, I can just barely make it out in strong light. The normal cheap 22 ammo will go in the front end, but Lapua Midas will not. So it's right in there where it should be, and quite a bit smaller than the single six Ruger.

[JRD]

My $.02: Bear in mind the lockup of a double action revolver with a swing out cylinder versus a single action. There is too much play in the yoke of a swing out double action cylinder to justify any gain from line boring. In a custom built single action where the cylinder is perfectly rigid when locked, you could gain something from line boring. Not so much in a swing out cylinder revolver where the cylinder can move around.