6mm Winchester Lee....Which case to use?

[gunluvver]

I have a Commission 88 rifle that has been sportered and has a Winchester Lee commercial barrel installed. Barrel is marked .236 Lee Navy. I'm trying to round up some brass and dies to make some rounds. Buffalo Arms is backordered on brass, and won't have loaded ammo available anymore due to the inability to procure the bullet the ammo was developed around. I've read that .220 Swift brass is used but ends up a bit short and you have to turn down the rim. Buffalo's ammo used .25/06 virgin brass. Why couldn't .270 or .30/06 brass be used to do the same? Has anybody dealt with this caliber? Any sources of a die set that doesn't require kidney sales?

[cwtebay]

I have used both 220 Swift (parent cartridge was the 236 USN) as well as 25-06. I did make some out of 270 and '06 at one time, but I have both of those and didn't want a mix up - they both worked fine.
I got my dies with the first Lee Navy that I bought, but I have seen them come up for sale on eBay for a reasonable price.
I have notes on a combination of alternate dies that apparently work, I'll have to have a look tonight.
It is an amazing cartridge! Was crazy ahead of its time as far as powder technology. I have a few firearms chambered in it, and I have messed around with actual load experiments in an 1895 Winchester with fantastic results. *I AM NOT ADVOCATING ANY UPPER END LOADS FOR ANY STRAIGHT PULL LEE NAVY RIFLES* - before anyone has a chance to pipe in on that.
Your rifle is going to be an incredible platform for that cartridge's potential!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[gunluvver]

I'd appreciate any info you have on it. I've been keeping my eye out for dies, etc. I have a 6mm Remington die set that I figured I could seat bullets with if I was able to score some of the Buffalo brass. Robeson Arms wants over $5.00 a round for brass.

[Bent Ramrod]

I have an 1895 Lee Straight-Pull that I made cases for from .240 Weatherby Magnum brass. I wrote it up in this section a couple years ago.

Except for being short in the neck, .220 Swift brass works adequately. I never had any trouble with the semi-rim; the cartridges stack and feed fine from the magazine. According to the old literature, there was a rimmed 6mm Lee cartridge as well as a rimless one. It looked like an anorexic .30-40 Krag. Never saw a specimen or even a photo; just woodcut pictures of it in Shooting and Fishing magazine. Got the impression it wasn’t used because it wouldn’t fit in the 5-round charging clip the Navy rifle used. Since you hardly ever see the clips now, this objection isn’t valid any more. You have to be careful with the bullets barely into the mouths of the Swift cases, but loading the magazine with loose rounds works fine.

There is a souped-up version of this 6mm-.220 Swift retro-wildcat called the .240 Cobra. The cartridge is exactly the same, but it runs at .243 or .244 pressures. The loading data for the Cobra should not be used for the 1895, and I wouldn’t try them in your 1888, either.

[gunluvver]

cwtebay, your inbox is full.

[cwtebay]

cwtebay, your inbox is full.Oh for the love of Pete! I emptied it

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[6mm win lee]

I was doing independent research on the issue and came to the same conclusion as Bent Ramrod without knowing it. 240 Weatherby is the way to go and I am unanimous in that. I was focused on case length with the base and rim size next. I figured it was easier to trim length and turn off the belt and rim than it is add to it. So I bought a bag of 240 WM brass in May 2020.

I made two orders from Buffalo Arms years ago. They used 25-06 as the parent case but the first batch all had neck splits after firing. Could have been a case of them not annealing the brass.

I picked up my RCBS die from Midway in November 2011. Eek! I see from my spreadsheet it cost me a lot of moola. They will cost you too.

[wyowillys46]

I've used .30-40 Krag brass so far with decent results. It ends up about .020" or so short of the correct length. With some extra working it could be stretched further. 240 Weatherby is another good contender if you are not using original clips. The issue with 240 Weatherby though, is there is not as much material (as the .30-40 has) to duplicate the dimensions of the original rim, which has a very specific bevel that mates with the spring ends on original clips.

If you can find RCBS dies, they're the best. AFAIK though, RCBS quit production of their odd-ball dies a couple of years ago. CH4D is the only other option, but in my opinion the inner surface finish of the RCBS far outclasses them. And the CH4D shell holder is incorrect in that it will not accept an original shell. The best shellholders that fit original shells are either the original RCBS 6mm Lee or (oddly enough) 276 Pedersen marked shellholders.

[Surculus]

I have a Commission 88 rifle ... Barrel is marked .236 Lee Navy. ... I've read that .220 Swift brass is used but ends up a bit short and you have to turn down the rim. Buffalo's ammo used .25/06 virgin brass. Why couldn't .270 or .30/06 brass be used to do the same?

Because the .30-'06 [& the 270 based off of it] wasn't developed for almost another decade after the .236 Lee cartridge; it's its own beastie...

[cwtebay]

Because the .30-'06 [& the 270 based off of it] wasn't developed for almost another decade after the .236 Lee cartridge; it's its own beastie...What the OP is driving at is that there are formed cases for this cartridge derived from 25-06 brass (and they work quite well I might add). This is done because cartridge dimensions can be made to work.
(As an aside - there is fairly good evidence that the 270 Winchester was actually based off of the 30-03 case, hence the length discrepancy)

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[cwtebay]

I've used .30-40 Krag brass so far with decent results. It ends up about .020" or so short of the correct length. With some extra working it could be stretched further. 240 Weatherby is another good contender if you are not using original clips. The issue with 240 Weatherby though, is there is not as much material (as the .30-40 has) to duplicate the dimensions of the original rim, which has a very specific bevel that mates with the spring ends on original clips.

If you can find RCBS dies, they're the best. AFAIK though, RCBS quit production of their odd-ball dies a couple of years ago. CH4D is the only other option, but in my opinion the inner surface finish of the RCBS far outclasses them. And the CH4D shell holder is incorrect in that it will not accept an original shell. The best shellholders that fit original shells are either the original RCBS 6mm Lee or (oddly enough) 276 Pedersen marked shellholders.I have to respectfully disagree, the CH4D shell holder is about perfect for the original case. It is about the surest way that I know when I have my rim correct.
I have made them from 220 Swift, the whole family of '03 and '06 cases and a (very few ) 240 Weatherby cases. I only have 1 original stripper clip and they fit the 25-06 quite well.
I cannot speak to the 276 Pederson shell holder as I do not own one.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220121/a9e02668cdfa152a19d887c376d52ff5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220121/923e4d4fe3284a877e04e873924a239c.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk