358 Winchester

[brasshog]

I recently got off my duff and started my long awaited 358 Win project. The idea is to have the perfect (for me) brush gun for hunting in the swamps and to cover the majority of medium game that I might ever hunt in my golden years. I purchased a new and unfired Howa 1500 chambered in 22-250 last week for $400 and sent her off to Hart barrels. The new barrel will be a #5 Heavy Sporter in stainless with a 1 in 12 twist cut at 20". When they are finished chambering it I have requested that everything be cerakoted in graphite black so that it all matches. At the moment it is a 10-11 month turn around time so stay tuned.

I will most likely alter the existing Hogue stock for the new barrel unless I can find a decent short action wood stock to alter. I'll also add a Timney trigger to her. Currently I expect to add a Zeiss Conquest V4 3-12x 56mm for optics. I would prefer to add iron sights as well but until it's in my hands I don't know exactly what to order since I'm changing the barrel. I may also have the detachable magazines just for fun but I prefer a BDL style rifle. I have attached some pictures of the original rifle for my "before" pictures.

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[AnthonyB]

Very nice! I have a similar dream for a short action M 700.
Tony

[brasshog]

I was originally going to go with a Rem 700 SA but the complete rifle was cheaper than a new Remmy action plus the bottom of the Howa action is flat thus making it easy to bed. The current stock has an aluminum bedding block and pillars in it. It has the M16 extractor on it and I wanted to try a rifle with one so it worked out well.

[AnthonyB]

I’m not wedded to the 700 action; it is just what I have. No flies on your choice at all!
Tony

[Harter66]

I have a Santa Barbara 98 24" 1-14 . Best load to date off the books RCBS 35-250 , 38ish gr of IMR 4350 .

[dverna]

I like your choice of rifle and caliber. Perfection.

Good luck!

[brasshog]

@Harter66 Thank for pointing me in the right direction on powder. That boolit is what I plan to initially try. Have you had any issues with 250gr pills in the 1 in 14 twist ?

@dverna Thanks :smile:

I feel like I'll regret not making the barrel 22" long even though it will probably only be a 70-100 fps loss. About 95% of my hunting in the years past has been at about 50yds in the thick part of the swamps here in Florida. The two inches of barrel length won't really matter much at those ranges but my buddy will be starting his 35 Whelen project soon hopefully and we hope to one day try some elk at 300yds or less. I've never seen a black bear (seen the damage though) here but I have seen two panthers while in the woods.

[BK7saum]

Your velocity loss in a 358 from 22 to 20 inches would likely be 12-20 fps per inch.

[brasshog]

@BK7saum Thanks for the info. That helps ease my mind some.

[badwolf]

I did this a few years ago, bought a left hand Sako that had a 25" ? Shipment barrel on it it a fiberglass stock. Had it cut down to 18" for PA bear hunting in the thick stuff. Came in at 7 1/2 lbs with a 1.5x 8 Vortex scope on it. So far only shooting 250 gr Nosler partitions out of it, want to try cast

[waylonrocks]

Nice! I live in NW Montana and I deem the .358 Win to be the perfect cartridge for hunting everything in my area, yet has a comforting level of power should I meet up with a grizzly bear. I have a Marlin XS7 bolt action that started off as a .243 and was rebored by JES to .358. Although, I think my Browning 81 BLR may be the perfect platform for this chambering in terms of portability. I debated long and hard about sending my Remington Model Seven .308 off to JES for a rebore before I bought the Marlin but the .308 is such a perfect round that I decided I had best leave well enough alone. I think a Model Seven would be the perfect bolt action .358 Win.

[square butte]

Nice! I live in NW Montana and I deem the .358 Win to be the perfect cartridge for hunting everything in my area, yet has a comforting level of power should I meet up with a grizzly bear. I have a Marlin XS7 bolt action that started off as a .243 and was rebored by JES to .358. Although, I think my Browning 81 BLR may be the perfect platform for this chambering in terms of portability. I debated long and hard about sending my Remington Model Seven .308 off to JES for a rebore before I bought the Marlin but the .308 is such a perfect round that I decided I had best leave well enough alone. I think a Model Seven would be the perfect bolt action .358 Win.
Is there enough meat at the muzzle of a Remington Model Seven for Jes to rebore to .358? I don't know what his minimum muzzle diameter is - But the Model Seven's always looked a bit skinny at the far end

[brasshog]

@square butte- from what I read the barrel tenons on both the model seven and the model 700 are the same (https://rifleshooter.com/2015/05/remington-model-seven-and-700-comparison/)

@waylonrocks-perhaps your on to something with the model seven. It would be a nice build but I might be tempted to make a 338 Federal on one if I had the action.

[ulav8r]

The tenon would not be a problem but the muzzle diameter might. There will be a minimum diameter that JES will rebore.

[brasshog]

@ulav8r- Thank you. I misread rebore thinking rebarrel

[rockrat]

IIRC, JES needs at least .050 on either side of the bore. Instead of a new barrel, why not have JES re-bore your existing barrel?

[brasshog]

@rockrat-In my case I didn't want nor need a 26" heavy barrel on a brush gun in any caliber hence why I didn't consider reboring the rifle. I went with a lighter contour and shorter length. By the time I would have had a barrel rebored, muzzle cut & finished, and had it recontoured I might as well just get a different barrel for the cost.

[Harter66]

I had round holes and .900" groups . I believe there was room for more speed but the delivered groups well into jacketed speeds was very satisfying .

1-16" is probably plenty . I played with the calculator/bullet design tool that was on the mountain moulds sight a lot . Not much for 35 cal . The 1-14" is faster yet .

I did just for grins shoot some 148 WC they remained in groups to 100 yd . Typically 35/38 cal pistols and PCC have 1-16" and will readily handle 200s . There are lots of spitzer/spire point type bullets available to 250 gr without twist advisories on the boxes ..........well no advisory on the Speer Hot Core 220 anyway . It's all I have on hand other than Hornady 200s and cast .

[brasshog]

Originally I was going to build a Whelen but chose the current cartridge over it. My research at the time showed a general dislike for the 1 in 16 twist by many people in the whelen. I owned a 35 whelen Rem 700 CDL with a 1 in 16 twist and it didn't like J-Words starting at 225gr. It did like the RCBS 35-200 FN. I had considered making this current build a 1 in 14 for general shooting from 180-225gr boolits and jwords but after careful thought decided on the 1 in 12 due to the fact that I intend to use 225-250gr pills most of the time.

The CDL rifle also reminded me what it was like to have a thin barrel that wanted to walk after only a few rounds. I really wanted to like that rifle but it just didn't grow on me. The reason that I went with the 358 Win over the 35 Whelen or variants such as the Brown Whelen was that it was more powerful than my old 35 Rem, allowed for quicker cycling between shots on charging boars due to the shorter action and less recoil, and it was just sexy to me. There's something about the round that simply appeals to me.

I have never owned or shot a 358 Win before and all that I am asking is MOA accuracy, moderate recoil, and the ability to take some larger game such as elk or caribou at or under 300 yards IF I ever get to go on a dream hunt. Our deer here could probably be successfully hunted with a .177 air rifle they are so small. Our hogs on the other hand can be tough to drop fast in close quarters hence the desire for a 35 cal boolit.

[Harter66]

This rifle has a barrel that had about 100 rounds through it as a 35-303 then it was cut back for my 98 action and rechambered in 358 . The smith shot both 200s and 250s in it . It's an Adam's and Bennett barrel .

MBT or Goodsteel did a write up regarding the performance of the 35/358-200 on deer here on the forums . He was the builder of this rifle .
Malcolm Ballistic Tool Conway AR . He's a little pricey but worth it .

You're welcome to shoot a 1-12 but it seems to me like it's pretty fast for a conventional rifle in 35 cal .

[kbstenberg]

I just finished almost the same rifle. I started with an Axis LH action a Shaw 19" barrel with a 1 in 16 twist.
Last week a shot my first rounds out of it. I was looking more to FF the cases (308) than anything

[brasshog]

@kbstenberg- That's awesome. I'm glad that you were able to finish your build and get some range time in. Make sure to post some results in the future.

[brasshog]

It looks like she's going to be wearing a weatherby dress to the party :lol:. This is being shipped to me.

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[NSB]

Up till about a year ago I knew nothing about the .358 Win cartridge. I met a fellow on here who needed some .358” jacketed bullets for his TC Encore in .357Max. I sent him some of my “stash” and we exchanged several emails since I owned a couple of Encores myself. He mentioned he was thinking about a 358 Win for his Encore and said he might order a barrel in that cartridge. Long story short, HausofArms sent me a flyer and they had five SSK barrels for sale in .358 Win. All heavy contour 20” with 1:12 twist. I gave it a thought for a day and then called Marty. He said he’d sold four of the five the day before and I could get the last one if I ordered it right then. I did. One of the best decisions I’ve made. It shoots five shots sub 1moa repeatably, and it’s super sweet to carry around. I put a Leupold 1.5-5x20 30mm scope on it with a lighted reticle. I shot four deer with three shots this last season from 154 yards to 237 yards. I’m convinced it’s the most under appreciated cartridge ever developed. MPBR is around 250 yards and it flattens everything it hits. I have a matching .357max Encore and the .358 Win is like a .357Max on steroids. It’s now my favorite cartridge for deer hunting.
I hope you end up enjoying yours as much as I do mine. It’s a great cartridge.

[brasshog]

@NSB I had considered building one on an encore frame but I remembered the last bout of "contender madness" that I had lol. Contender and encore barrels multiply like stoves around here. I'm trying not to build a 280 AI on an encore atm. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the 358 win. I like your rifle.

[NSB]

Brasshog, you’re going to have a much nicer gun. I wish I was more technical and had the know-how to put something like your gun together. In the long run you’ve got the better/nicer gun. I was going to order a new .308 X-Bolt and send it out to get rebored, but I just couldn’t get myself to radically alter a new gun and didn’t know enough to do what you did. I took the “easy” way out. I’m looking forward to seeing yours when it’s all done. Beautiful stock you have coming.

[murf205]

IIRC, JES needs at least .050 on either side of the bore. Instead of a new barrel, why not have JES re-bore your existing barrel?

I just sent his brother Whyat, a message about my Monkey Ward 30-06 FN Mauser which has a .555 muzzle. Inquiring about a 35 cal re bore and he said that it would work but NO screws for sights that close to the muzzle. I guess if I really wanted sights, I could go to NECG for a barrel band front and an island rear, a la Ruger sights. Starting to sound sexy to me with a Timney or a 3 position bolt shroud safety in 35 Whelen.

[Jim22]

Good choice. The .358 Winchester is a fine cartridge for those who don't fancy shooting game a long way away. I generally limit my shots to about 200 yards no matter the gun. I just don't like making bad shots. As I age I don't consider Quigley's feat to be anything except Hollywood hype. Younger guys spend thousands on long range rifles, scopes, bipods, and ammo. Even so they make bad shots.

Jim

[brasshog]

@murf205 That sounds like a fun project. It should make for a great rifle.

@Jim22 I prefer hunting in swamps and timber versus the open range. I'm anticipating that I will keep all of my shots within 300 yards for this rifle for the most part. I have no desire to hunt long range anymore. Spot and stalk was always my game since I can't really sit still long enough in a stand. These old bones get cold too easily and I tend to fall asleep if I'm warm.

[murf205]

@murf205 That sounds like a fun project. It should make for a great rifle.

@Jim22 I prefer hunting in swamps and timber versus the open range. I'm anticipating that I will keep all of my shots within 300 yards for this rifle for the most part. I have no desire to hunt long range anymore. Spot and stalk was always my game since I can't really sit still long enough in a stand. These old bones get cold too easily and I tend to fall asleep if I'm warm.

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I don't think Jes will do my rifle. It has screw holes where the front sight attached. I had to saw a few lbs of wood off the stock to get it to where it was shootable and it is just that now. Prolly have to leave it a 30-06 or re-barrel. I shoots 220 gr Nosler Partitions and 220 Hornady RN into less than an inch. If I stumbled into a Vanguard or a SA anything that didn't take your 1st born to buy. a 358 Win would be my choice.

[brasshog]

@murf205 That is a nice rifle. I like the sights. I want sights on my rifle but Hart informed me today that they do not install any so I will have to find someone who will. I was trying to get the sights installed before the cerakoting so that it wouldn't be messed up afterwards.

[murf205]

Go to New England Custom Gun website and under accessories you will see sights. They offer the classiest sighting arrangements of anybody I've found. I could make the skinny muzzle of my '06 work by using a banded front ramp--if--it didn't have screw holes and one of them is stripped.The best part about their front ramps is that they have a lot of different beads that will fit in the ramp. If you look at the pic of my rifle you will notice that the rear sight is jamed up against the receiver ring. Montgomery Ward probably let the janitor put these sights on! Your rifle should look pretty good with that new stock. Synthetic stocks certainly have their place but they are not as aesthetically pleasing to the eye as wood---IMHO.

[Rapier]

The 358 Win with 200s gives pretty impressive performance on deer size game. Over the years hunted with two guys that had them, very effective, very quick.

The receiver sight with the rear objective disk removed, makes for a fast target acquisition. A 200 in the boiler room, the critter is down.

[waylonrocks]

Up till about a year ago I knew nothing about the .358 Win cartridge. I met a fellow on here who needed some .358” jacketed bullets for his TC Encore in .357Max. I sent him some of my “stash” and we exchanged several emails since I owned a couple of Encores myself. He mentioned he was thinking about a 358 Win for his Encore and said he might order a barrel in that cartridge. Long story short, HausofArms sent me a flyer and they had five SSK barrels for sale in .358 Win. All heavy contour 20” with 1:12 twist. I gave it a thought for a day and then called Marty. He said he’d sold four of the five the day before and I could get the last one if I ordered it right then. I did. One of the best decisions I’ve made. It shoots five shots sub 1moa repeatably, and it’s super sweet to carry around. I put a Leupold 1.5-5x20 30mm scope on it with a lighted reticle. I shot four deer with three shots this last season from 154 yards to 237 yards. I’m convinced it’s the most under appreciated cartridge ever developed. MPBR is around 250 yards and it flattens everything it hits. I have a matching .357max Encore and the .358 Win is like a .357Max on steroids. It’s now my favorite cartridge for deer hunting.
I hope you end up enjoying yours as much as I do mine. It’s a great cartridge.

Wish I had been as smart as you were! I dithered too long and lost my chance at one of these barrels! I rejected the handgun length barrel that was offered figuring that the my .308 barrel would suffice. The .358 rifle barrel seems about perfect in length, has scope mount installed, and his threaded for muzzle brake/silencer. Hopefully, that will be offered again! If I may rant a bit - I often wonder at the cartridge selection offered in special runs of barrels such as this. Even now, 16 1/4 inch barrels are available for such things as the .264 Win Mag, which make little sense. Many of the other offerings would seem to have a limited number of prospective buyers, as well. It would seem to me, that classic cartridges with a cult following such as the .358, ,257 Roberts, etc. would appeal to many more people and generate better sales.

[TD1886]

Brasshog don't spend too much time worrying about the twist. If you got the 12 twist you done excellent. That way you can stabilize anything you put in it. Even if you have a faster twist then needed it won't change your accuracy worth a hoot contrary to what some experts on this forum say. Sometimes if you get the slowest twist possible for the caliber you sometimes end up with a rifle that will only shoot a shorter bullet and won't shoot the longer ones, not a good idea. It's kind of like having a more horsepower engine in your car and not needing it rather then an under powered engine when you do need it.

I have an early gunsmith custom 35 Whelen made waaaay back probably around the time Elmer Keith was playing with them on 1903 action. It wears a Lyman receiver sight and the barrel is a 12 twist. Even with the shorter light 220 cast bullets and the best group I got with my aging eyes was 1/2 inch at 100 yards. So you see "too much twist" isn't that inaccurate is it???

[brasshog]

Thanks TD1886- My whelen is a 1 in 14 twist and it did not like the first load that I tried with this boolit but it sure like 225gr jwords. I just knew that after my experience with the 1 in 16" twist in 35 whelen in a Rem CDL rifle that I didn't want that twist rate or a thin barrel on this rifle. The 200gr pills are most likely the lightest cast projectile that I will probably feed my 358 with. I need to get my butt to the bench and load up the 250gr custom jwords in the 358 so that I can try them out.

[Rapier]

My 358 Win 1-14 twist 22" SS barrel for my M-96 1943 Husky came in yesterday. Did a few mods to the Husky, like 3 dozen. It feeds the 200 Rem RN and the 200 RCBS FN. I now just need to cut the chamber, .017 short, to its full length, and turn the muzzle threads to 5/8-24. Cut a stock out.
This is the barrel mounted just for the feeding test.

[AnthonyB]

My Dream .358 Has Morphed...

since the beginning of this thread, and the drift has already started, so...

It was gonna be a short action M700 my Dad bought me in .243 when I was a kid. The idea was losing appeal as he got older, and I decided on a different route. I found a Savage 110 Magpul Hunter in 308 Win. Action is supposedly factory blueprinted, 20" fairly heavy barrel and a Magpul stock. Now I just need to decide on the best Savage threaded .358 barrel.
Tony

[Beerd]

AnthonyB,
If the barrel contour suits you, why not a rebore to .358?
..

[Eddie Southgate]

AnthonyB,
If the barrel contour suits you, why not a rebore to .358?
..

"My dad bought me as a kid" and " The idea was loosing appeal as he got older".

[AnthonyB]

Beard;
That is definitely an option. But, I have all those .30 moulds anyway...

Thinking this may become a multi-barrel rifle, although the "needed" cast calibers are about eliminated with the 308 and 358 Win.
Tony

[brasshog]

@Rapier- That is similar to my 35 Whelen on a M96 action from 1919. It also has a 1 in 14 twist barrel.
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[brasshog]

I wasn't sure if I had updated this post since the rifle's completion. I believe that I have posted elsewhere on the forum about it but I wanted to show the end result in the original thread concerning the build in case anyone found this thread in a search. The completed rifle is a Howa 1500 with a stainless Hart 20" barrel chambered in 358 Win and a 1 in 12" twist. The stock is a NOS Weatherby monte carlos style wood stock that I pillar bedded, free floated and glass bed. The new Timney trigger is set at about 2lbs. The scope is a Vortex 4-12x56 Crossfire II illuminated model. Everything but the scope and hardware is cerakoted graphite black. She loves 200gr cast boolits at 2100fps (BHN-11, 94-3-3 lead, aluminum gas check) putting a four shot group into 1 5/16" at 100 yards.

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Four Shots-Fifth is under the number "5" of the tape. It was a fouling shot. All five shot groups had the barrel cleaned since this was the first string down the new pipe. Each set of five in the string required a fouling shot for the groups to settle in after cleaning. There was no excessive or noticeable leading.
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[Texas by God]

That’s a very nice looking (and shooting)rifle!
How is the weight with the laminated stock and the big scope?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brasshog]

The rifle as pictured weighs in at a hefty 10.25lbs. The stock really isn't that heavy. It's the scope and heavy barrel that add up. I guess I could have chosen a lighter set of rings also. I specifically set out not to have a lightweight or light sub-9lb rifle. I wanted an all day shooter that didn't drift much after a few rounds at the bench on a hot day and that is what I got. I can fire about a box of ammo (four five shot groups of slow fire) before the barrel is "warm to the touch". I have yet to experience any walking from barrel heat up and it is free floated so as to allow a sheet of printer paper doubled over to pass under the barrel.

I balanced the rifle at about two inches forward of the trigger guard to have a slightly heavy front heft for off-hand shooting. I dislike getting in a hurry with a shorter barrel and passing the mark when something breaks for a run in the brush. Recoil from this rifle with a cast 200gr load at 2100 fps is a dream. Think of it as the 38 special wadcutter of rifles in terms of recoil. Factory 200gr loads feel like a soft and light M80 round out of a FN-FAL (9.4lb rifle) without the sharp kick or the twang. Member "Lazy Squirrel" absolutely loves this rifle. His 35 Whelen is still being built so he is living through me vicariously at the moment lol.

Some eye candy of the process
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