30-30 Win vs 30-30 WCF

[ILostMyGoat]

Hey everyone, I recently acquired a Winchester 94 in 30-30 (stamped 30-30 win) I ordered a RCBS 2 die set and the sticker says 30-30 WCF. From my research it appears to be the same cartridge diameters. Just looking for you guys to give a second opinion. I just don’t want to shove a piece of brass up there and get it stuck. Thanks guys


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[TurnipEaterDown]

It is the same. "WCF" = Winchester Center Fire.

[cwtebay]

Kind of an interesting story about that.
Nathan goes into it a bit here, but it's definitely a rabbit hole topic.

(But yes, they definitely are the same)

.30-30 Winchester (.30 WCF )
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.30-30+Winchester++.30+WCF.html

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[Texas by God]

Sometimes the German in me calls it the 7.62x52R........[emoji16]

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[Noah Zark]

When questions like this come up, I miss John Kort.

RIP John.

Noah

[scattershot]

Same cartridge, different name. It came about apparently because Marlin didn’t want to put Winchester’s name on their rifles.

[georgerkahn]

Hey everyone, I recently acquired a Winchester 94 in 30-30 (stamped 30-30 win) I ordered a RCBS 2 die set and the sticker says 30-30 WCF. From my research it appears to be the same cartridge diameters. Just looking for you guys to give a second opinion. I just don’t want to shove a piece of brass up there and get it stuck. Thanks guys


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As others have voiced, "30WCF" and .30-30 Win are indeed the same cartridge. My understanding (e.g., from what I've read and been told by old-timers) a bit of a ruckus came up when Remington Arms took pretty much identical to Winchester's cartridges and produced them with their rims milled off, starting in 1906... They had the 25, 30, 32, and 35, and surely did not wish to have the "Winchester" name following these. Hence, as one example, there was the .30-30 Remington -- made for semi-automatic firearms such as their Model 8, 14, 81, and others. (Interestingly, both bullet size/weight and powder charges for these cartridges -- either the xx Remington or xx-WCF -- are the same).294738 294737 There was a bit of confusion, too, when one wished to buy .30-30 / .30wcf cartridges which were manufactured by Remington Arms ;). I inserted here a couple of photos of the rimless .30-30 Remington.
Congrats, big-time, on your getting a "thutty-thutty" as I've also heard them called...
geo

[15meter]

Or if you're a Yooper, turty-turty, ya!

[cwtebay]

As others have voiced, "30WCF" and .30-30 Win are indeed the same cartridge. My understanding (e.g., from what I've read and been told by old-timers) a bit of a ruckus came up when Remington Arms took pretty much identical to Winchester's cartridges and produced them with their rims milled off, starting in 1906... They had the 25, 30, 32, and 35, and surely did not wish to have the "Winchester" name following these. Hence, as one example, there was the .30-30 Remington -- made for semi-automatic firearms such as their Model 8, 14, 81, and others. (Interestingly, both bullet size/weight and powder charges for these cartridges -- either the xx Remington or xx-WCF -- are the same).294738 294737 There was a bit of confusion, too, when one wished to buy .30-30 / .30wcf cartridges which were manufactured by Remington Arms ;). I inserted here a couple of photos of the rimless .30-30 Remington.
Congrats, big-time, on your getting a "thutty-thutty" as I've also heard them called...
geoTo make that more of a nebulous subject - I have examined a collection of Model 8's that are marked "30-30 Remington" and "25-35 Remington" . Can't imagine being sent to the store for shells for your dad's gun with that in mind!!!

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[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello ILostMyGoat,

I believe it was switched at serial number 1,900,000, during the 1951 Production run.
All previous 94's were labeled 30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire).

AntiqueSledMan.

[centershot]

When questions like this come up, I miss John Kort.

RIP John.

Noah

Amen to that. John was a very knowledgeable man. He died too young......

[Screwbolts]

Sometimes the German in me calls it the 7.62x52R........[emoji16]

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I am totally and completely unfamiliar or aware that anywhere in the world that the 30-30 is ever refereed to as a "7.62x52R".

No I do often refer to the 30-30/30wcf as, 7.62x51R, that it is.

Screwbolts

[Shawlerbrook]

Like autumn as opposed to fall. Forgot where, but I read a very interesting article on cartridge naming nomenclature and how confusing it can be.

[farmbif]

ive never used anything stamped 7.62x??R in a 30-30/30WCF, but the 6.5x52R is an exact match to the 25-35WCF, which is nothing more than a necked down 25 caliber version of the 30WCF

[todd9.3x57]

Kind of an interesting story about that.
Nathan goes into it a bit here, but it's definitely a rabbit hole topic.

(But yes, they definitely are the same)

.30-30 Winchester (.30 WCF )
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.30-30+Winchester++.30+WCF.html

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i killed alot of deer with the 30-30. i put her (1972 win m94) away in my safe for years. three years ago i sent it to JES and he did a 35/30-30 and my love affair began again.

sighting it in
https://i.imgur.com/nBFtFB6.jpg

[Texas by God]

Screwball, the 7.62x51R would be the .307 Winchester[emoji16][emoji848]
If the .22 Hi Power and the 25-35 are both x52R I figured the 30-30 was as well......if I'm wrong, been there before.


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[cwtebay]

Since we're talking about it - here's a box from a couple of years back.
The box calls out to Winchester, Marlin and Savage rifles.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220121/01553f1039fddc499c85c114e217241e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220121/0c3456bb4c3bc626985e5144c0c30ec7.jpg

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[Joe K]

Lyman 44th. See 30/30 section.
http://www.nzha.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Lyman44.pdf

[toot]

Yah!

[toot]

and the beat goes on!

[cwtebay]

Texas By God - I am with you on this.
If 7.62x51 NATO=308 Winchester then 7.62x51R should be 307 Winchester.

And with standard 30 WCF brass being 51.8mm ....well the Vulcan in me says logic dictates that 7.62x52R should = 30 WCF (the evidence presented by bringing up the 25-35 = 6.5x52R should also be brought to the table - yep I am aware that the 2 cartridges could be argued that they are not precisely the same).

Now, if you will excuse me - I need to get to loading up some 7.62x52R for my 1894's and 325.

Portion redacted.

[Screwbolts]

Now to OP yes the 30 WCF, is just another reference to what is know today as the 30-30, and also known in the metric portion of the world as the 7.62x51R.


Laus Deo, Screwbolts/Ken Hall

[Petander]

i killed alot of deer with the 30-30. i put her (1972 win m94) away in my safe for years. three years ago i sent it to JES and he did a 35/30-30 and my love affair began again.

sighting it in
https://i.imgur.com/nBFtFB6.jpg

Now here is an idea!

I have an old (1901) takedown 94,re-blued so not real antique. No fire lapping made that barrel reasonable to shoot any bullets. Too much to clean. Re-boring / re-lining to 358 never occured to me.

I'll call a reputable barrel maker about this. Thanks!

[Geezer in NH]

1R or 2R who cares. Americans do not get the metric system. Thats what we argue about now?

[ulav8r]

Does not matter what anyone here thinks the metric designation of the 30-30 should be, that was determined many years ago in Europe.

[Texas by God]

Holy crap, I didn't even realize that I mangled your forum handle until you pointed it out- Screwbolts. And I apologize for that part of my post. But as for all the metric pontificating- I will do as I please.

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[cwtebay]

Redacted this because I didn't like my own words.
Apologies to all.

[Screwbolts]

Texas by God, thank you.

[Savvy Jack]

Americans do not get the metric system.
I refuse to convert!

[gwpercle]

Hey everyone, I recently acquired a Winchester 94 in 30-30 (stamped 30-30 win) I ordered a RCBS 2 die set and the sticker says 30-30 WCF. From my research it appears to be the same cartridge diameters. Just looking for you guys to give a second opinion. I just don’t want to shove a piece of brass up there and get it stuck. Thanks guys


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Order a copy of "Cartridges Of The World" and become an expert on cartridge names , nomenclature and history overnight ... well maybey not an expert but the confusing names and history of cartridges is explained and helped me a lot in getting this confounding and complicated subject straight .
In fact ...after Loading Manuals ... COTW is my most used reference book and solved a lot of confusion ... would you believe there are 19 different 9mm cartridges and a few have 3 different names . It's a very interesting book to have on hand . The 16th Edition is $24.23 at Amazon , it isn't an expensive book to own ...
I need to order myself a new one , mine is 7th Edition (1993)...wow that's old !
Gary

[bcp]

CIP - The European Equivalent of SAAMI, calls it 30-30.

296767



Bruce

[TNsailorman]

Who cares what other people call it, I don't. My Marlin thutty-thutty loves me and I love it and no one else matters. I refuse to convert to the metric system. james

[15meter]

Unless you're from here in Michigan, the Yoopers call it a Turtie-Turtie.

At least that what it sounds like to an old troll's* hearing. Or what's left of it after a lifetime of hearing abuse**.

*troll, people who live under the bridge

** hearing abuse, 55+ years of guns, 55+ years of motorcycles, 35+ years of going in and out of factories in 33 states, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Canada, China and 40+ years of using farm equipment.

Speak louder, I can't hear you...........

[TNsailorman]

huh

[cwtebay]

Who cares what other people call it, I don't. My Marlin thutty-thutty loves me and I love it and no one else matters. I refuse to convert to the metric system. jamesDon't you own an 8x57 Mauser?

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[405grain]

I just read through the whole thread. The 30-30 Winchester = 30-30 WCF is an easy one: It's the same cartridge. What really becomes confusing is the comparison between American and metric cartridge designations. Sometimes the same exact cartridge will have different designations depending upon which side of the pond your on. Other times two completely different cartridges will have similar designations. When I read through the thread, what caught my eye was that the 6.5x52R is the same as the 25-35 WCF. (I already knew that) Both of these cartridges are based on the same basic case as the 30-30. But, the 6.5x52 is the Carcano cartridge. This is a completely different cartridge; the only difference in the name is an "R". Thank goodness I don't get my 7x57 Mauser cartridges mixed up with some 275 Rigby, because they look so much alike. It can be confusing sometimes because having names in both English and metric can be a real tower of babble.

[toot]

Hey everyone, I recently acquired a Winchester 94 in 30-30 (stamped 30-30 win) I ordered a RCBS 2 die set and the sticker says 30-30 WCF. From my research it appears to be the same cartridge diameters. Just looking for you guys to give a second opinion. I just don’t want to shove a piece of brass up there and get it stuck. Thanks guys


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if you GOOGLED it you would have found out the answer.

[TNsailorman]

cwtebay, I have owned and shot several 8x57mm mausers in my long shooting career. However at the present time I do not own a single mauser, sold them all off and don't plan on buying another. The prices these days are far more than I intend to pay for a used military rifle. james

[cwtebay]

cwtebay, I have owned and shot several 8x57mm mausers in my long shooting career. However at the present time I do not own a single mauser, sold them all off and don't plan on buying another. The prices these days are far more than I intend to pay for a used military rifle. jamesSorry man, I was ribbing you about your metric system comment.

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[TNsailorman]

Yeah, well, I am getting older and things go right over my head sometimes and you comment just did not register. I have been slowly downsizing some and the mausers were the first to go. Take Care, james

[Savvy Jack]

Hey everyone, I recently acquired a Winchester 94 in 30-30 (stamped 30-30 win) I ordered a RCBS 2 die set and the sticker says 30-30 WCF. From my research it appears to be the same cartridge diameters. Just looking for you guys to give a second opinion. I just don’t want to shove a piece of brass up there and get it stuck. Thanks guys


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To directly answer your question.

They are the same, basically caused by manufacture wars

Winchester - 30WCF
Remington - 30-30

Winchester 44 WCF
Remington 44-40

The list goes on and on....

All designated by 1886, with the aid of the Union Metallic Cartridge Company by advertising the 44 WCF as the 44-40 for Remington.
30-30/30 WCF both originally charged with 30gr to 34gr of early bulk smokeless powder.

Metric designations can go pound sand.