smokeless in a 1885 winchester

[milltownhunter]

i resently bought a winchester 1885 in 45/90 and on the barrel it has black powder only . they make this rifle in the 325 wsm and 45/70 so the rifle sould be able to take the preasure of smokeless powder i have old lyman manuals that list some very good loads for older rifles in the 45/90 is the problem with the lenth of the case with light loads and liability i heard that some people use cream of wheat as filler i am only planing to shoot cast bullets and do not know if i want the hasal of black powder

[jhrosier]

There are no SAAMI specs for 'standard' smokeless powder loads in the 45-90.
The maker is just being cautious.

Jack

[trevj]

Is this one of the ones with a Badger barrel?

Some of the barrel stock used by the makers of BP barrels is of lesser strength than that used for Smokeless powder barrels.
Some is the same stuff.

Stick to loads that stay reasonably close to BP pressures and velocities, and you should be OK.

Given that the ammo makers never saw fit to include any form of filler in their cartridges loaded to black powder specs (Winchester lever gun carts, like 40-72, 40-65, and 45-70), I'd not get all keen on putting any into the case.

Find a slow burning, high volume powder and work up a load.

Cheers
Trev

[jhrosier]

Trev,
The suggestion that Badger barrels are of some lesser quality, or that Browning, Winchester, or Miroku would knowingly build a firearm with unsafe components simply doesn't make any sense whatever.

Since the U.S.government does not maintain a proofing standard for commercial firearms, the industry generally endorses the SAAMI standards for pressures of commercial ammunition.
BTW, most gunmakers voluntarily proof test their guns.

All modern firearms are considered safe with the use of SAAMI spec (factory ) ammunition, and the owners manuals for new firearms universaly require the use of such ammo.

As I posted earlier, the 45-90 (and many other obsolete cartridges), does not have a SAAMI specification. If there is no ammo maker, there can be no SAAMI spec.

The gun maker is simply indicating this by the warning to use black powder which is generally believed to operate at very modest maximum pressures.

This, in itself is interesting, because it allows using handloads without voiding the factory warranty, in the case of calibers for which no factory loaded ammo is available.

Jack

[montana_charlie]

i resently bought a winchester 1885 in 45/90 and on the barrel it has black powder only...and do not know if i want the hasal of black powder
Sell the rifle...
CM

[littlejack]

milltown:
What hassle are you referring to?
Jack

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Soap and Hot Water, a little Balistol. No Hassle!

Sam :D

[AkMike]

Is this a real Winchester or one of the many clones glutting the market today?
An origional, AKA real 1885 MIGHT have a larger than normal firing pin diameter for white powder...

[boommer]

Do you really think that they would they would cheapen up on the alloy of the metal on just the 45-90 High-wall, it's just there's no SAAMI spec for that cartridge. I don't think you should load it with Ruger 1 loads in 45-70 but 86 Winny modern 45-70 loads should be more than fine. I have a 45-90 winny limited but It's only seen black and lead but would not think twice about a 86 45-70 level loads in her!

[trevj]

Trev,
The suggestion that Badger barrels are of some lesser quality, or that Browning, Winchester, or Miroku would knowingly build a firearm with unsafe components simply doesn't make any sense whatever.


Jack

Hold onto yer shorts Jack, before you jump right out of them!

I asked if it was a Badger barrel. Nothing more.

I didn't say they used lesser materials. Just said that some of the barrel makers use stock that isn't as strong, for Black Powder Barrels. Next line,says... Some use the same stuff as is used for the high pressure barrels.

Try not to read too much into it.

Nothing wrong with a Badger barrel. AFAIK.

Don't try to load it up to replace the .458 Win Mag, it should be good on anything you feed it with.

Edit: Heck. It's an 1885. Chances are really good that it'd hold up just fine, loaded up to replace that .458 Win Mag. I just don't want to absorb it! :) Winchester had no grief using their actions for pressure test hacks and load development, up into the 1960's.


Cheers
Trev

[jhrosier]

Hold onto yer shorts Jack, before you jump right out of them!...

I haven't been able to jump that high in many years.:bigsmyl2:

You seemed to be headed in the wrong direction and I felt that it was important to be very precise when discussing safety issues.

Jack

[trevj]

Nope. Some conclusions were jumped to. I thought I was clear enough. <shrug>

1137 and 1144 get used for a lot of rimfire and BP barrels. Who made it, and of what, is germain to the discussion.

I don't figure there was anything wrong with the advice either.

Cheers
Trev

[McLintock]

Sounds like it's a late model Winchester '85 made by Mirouko of Japan, and I've never read anywhere that they used Badger barrels in them. Badger Barrels were used in the Browning BPCR's which were made especially for NRA BP Silhouette competition and they used extremely good barrels for that reason. I think Winchester makes a similar model and it may have a better barrel, but don't know whether it does or not. So, can't say for sure one way or another but it's probably not a Badger, if it's the model with the 34" long octogon barrel that's not too heavy weight. So, as for the "Black Powder Only" sign on it, I wouldn't worry much about it. The Browning BPCR's said the same thing and shooters have put literally 1000's of rounds of smokeless loads through them over the years with no ill effect that I've ever heard of. The main problem is that if you're shooting black powder a lot, it tends to "season" the barrel, and if you shoot smokeless loads it'll screw up the seaoning, which is one of the things that make up accruacy potential in a black powder gun; at least that's what I've always understood, but could be wrong. Who knows, only the Shadow doos.
McLintock