Load Data for Old Style 12 Ga Remington Peters 3" Hulls

[Hanzy4200]

I bought a bag of old Remington Peters 3" hulls at the gun show today. They are new and unfired. I paid $8 for 90 hulls. My issue is I can't find data! Nothing in my Lyman manual matches these. My goal is 00 buckshot, preferably 15 pellet. I fooled with trying a load for Remington SP hulls with a X12X gas seal and fiber cushion wad, but the fiber wad wouldn't fit and the gas seal was super tight. I'm stumped. These are some fine looking hulls. Easily twice the thickness of most modern stuff.

[jim 44-40]

Bubba Roundtree has a video on u- tube that might be helpful.Now he is using Rem Nitro hull which he is loading 15 pellets of 00 buck.hope this helps

[jim 44-40]

Are the hulls fiber base wad?

[Hogtamer]

If you have any 800x try page 40 here….

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/imr_reloading.pdf

[barkerwc4362]

Did the hulls come primed? Remington at one time made hulls for 157 and 209 sized primers. How old is your Lyman manual? I have #1 through #5. There is even shotgun load data in the old rifle/pistol manuals that preceded the #1 Shotgun manual. We need a picture of the inside of the hull or a hull that has been sectioned to be positive of what hull you have.

Bill

[Hanzy4200]

Yes, they are. That's my biggest issue. Can't find any info on fiber based hulls. Forgot to mention that in the initial post.

[Hanzy4200]

They are factory new, primed. I read in a old thread about the primer size deal. I might decide to widen them, or not. For $.09 apiece I'm not loading much old getting a single loading.

[megasupermagnum]

I found your case in the Lyman Shotshell #2. It is listed as the Remington-Peters "SP" 12 gauge 3". *basewad made of compression molded asbestos-like material, relatively hard, smooth and gray in color* It appears they take either a *57 or a #157 primer. It doesn't list what they were sold with.

Here is all of their listed buckshot data. Note that none of it is buffered data, so do not add buffer to these. Chances are really good you do not own any of the Alcan wads listed, which is one of the downfalls to shotgun reloading. Loading 100% to the book is next to impossible.

Take the following for what it is, an opinion. Use at your own risk.

The Alcan Air-Wedge was a gas seal. There is no good reason you can't substitute in your X12X. They are similar design and thickness, and should make next to no difference in your load. Anything that says card is now often called a nitro card. When it says Alcan .135 card, you can substitute an 1/8" nitro card. They are the exact same thing. You can cut them to make any thickness. The Alcan feltan-bluestreak is a lubed fiber wad. You can substitute a fiberwad. I prefer non-lubed myself, but they can be purchased either way. Alternatively a felt wad does the same thing, and you can use a combo of both a fiber and felt to get the height you need. Lastly is the Alcan kwik-sert, which was nothing but a specially cut mylar that could be used in a wad guide. You can substitute a regular old mylar wrap, only you will have to hand insert them. The Alcan Flite-Max wads were early attempts at a plastic wad. I'd just avoid those loads.

Based on the data, I'm guessing you have Remington *57 primers in those hulls, although it appears the CCI 157 makes no meaningful difference. Unfortunately I don't see anything you can use for a 15 pellet 00 buck load. There are two 1 7/8 oz loads that would work, but you would need either AL-7 or SR 4756 powder. I don't think they have even made AL-7 in my lifetime, and SR 4756 has been discontinued for almost 10 years now.

https://i.ibb.co/PCQyYDd/IMG-20220116-194222393.jpg (https://ibb.co/PCQyYDd)

[Hogtamer]

I believe I would cut one down and make sure they are not plastic…

[hoodat]

Here's data from an old Hercules pamphlet I've got. jd

294684

[Hanzy4200]

Here's data from an old Hercules pamphlet I've got. jd

294684

Thank you. I won't lie, I have never heard of any of those wads. From the looks of it they call for the same charge no matter the wad. Also a bummer they don't denote the 1 7/8 oz load, which is about what I need for a 15 pellet load.

[Hanzy4200]

Here's one split down the middle

[megasupermagnum]

What powders do you have?

[hoodat]

Those Rem W----- wads are simply Remington Power Piston wads and should be gettable, or at least with Knock-offs. For 1 7/8 loads, you are definitely in the Blue Dot zone. I never loaded anything that heavy. jd

[centershot]

I would think that either an RP-12 or SP-12 would work in that hull with no problem.

[Hanzy4200]

What powders do you have?

Good many. Herco, Blue Dot, Unique, Steel, HS-6, WSF, WST, Longshot, H Universal.

[megasupermagnum]

Good many. Herco, Blue Dot, Unique, Steel, HS-6, WSF, WST, Longshot, H Universal.

Those are great shotgun powders, but unfortunately it doesn't look like you have anything old enough for this. Bluedot came out about when your hulls were discontinued. You aren't likely to find 1 7/8 oz data for Herco or HS-6. If you had some SR 4756 or HS-7, then you would be in business.

You will have to make a decision. You can either load a 12 pellet load with data provided, or you will have to be willing to make a substitution. My suggestion is to use 3" Federal "hi-power" paper base load data. You will also have to be willing to make a primer substitution too, since those Federals use 209 primers.

[Hanzy4200]

I was surprised, but these appear to be 209's as well. They looked slightly different when I deprimd one, but I was able to seat a CCI 209 with no problem. The size difference might have just been my perception. In reading, it appears they did make these for a short time with the "new" 209 primers before discontinuing them.

[Hanzy4200]

Those are great shotgun powders, but unfortunately it doesn't look like you have anything old enough for this. Bluedot came out about when your hulls were discontinued. You aren't likely to find 1 7/8 oz data for Herco or HS-6. If you had some SR 4756 or HS-7, then you would be in business.

You will have to make a decision. You can either load a 12 pellet load with data provided, or you will have to be willing to make a substitution. My suggestion is to use 3" Federal "hi-power" paper base load data. You will also have to be willing to make a primer substitution too, since those Federals use 209 primers.

On the Alliant PDF manual, page 49, they list Rem Peters 3" SP hulls with separate base. They list one 1 7/8 oz load with Blue Dot and a RP12 wad, which I have. They note 34 gr, and that's with a CCI 209M primer. Minus the magnum primer, I was thinking of starting at 33 gr. Am I on the right track?

[megasupermagnum]

The simple test is to measure the primer. A Remington 209 will be .241". I don't recall what a *57 is, but it is smaller. The hull listed in the Alliant manual is most likely a plastic basewad. They are often yellow or white, and can vary in height. The only way to know for sure is to call Alliant. The good news is that both that Remington and the Federal paper base hulls are listed with the exact same 34gr Bluedot, and nearly identical 10,500 psi. The catch is they are listed with CCI 209M and Federal 209A which are both magnum primers of about the same strength. Remington 209's will produce less pressure. That said, this is a hefty load, with decent pressure, so a drop in pressure is not going to be detrimental. The problem you might face is that you might not be able to fit 15 pellets of 00 buck in that. You will certainly need to cut the petals off the wad. Even then, it may not work. Try it and see. I wouldn't drop powder at all, I'd load 34 gr Bluedot.

[Hanzy4200]

Thanks. You're right. Fit isn't going to fly with 15. I was hoping they would roll crimp, but they are to thick and tough. I was hoping for a beefy load. Dropping down to even 12 pellets, it seems pointless. My standard 2 3/4" loads are 10 pellet. Going to 3" just for 2 pellets seems silly. I really appreciate the input.

[megasupermagnum]

With some creativity, extrapolation, and intuition, you should be able to make a 15 pellet load that works, but that is going into the black art that is shotgun substitutions.

[jim 44-40]

I know this is not a load with Remington hulls,just one I found in Hodgdon's #21 manual.
Winchester high brass plastic tube 3''
31 grains HS-6
15 #00 buck
Alcan air wedge +3/8
40 wad pressure
10,500 psi

[ipopum]

Some one is " a young fella" I used AL-7 & AL-8 when loading 3" goose loads. I still have some and use it in rifle cast loads. They were great powders.

[Hanzy4200]

I miked one, and it's on the money at .241, so we have a 209 for sure. I think I need to just come to terms that these are not good candidates for 15 pellet 00. I'm going to load some test shells with 1 7/8 oz of #4 shot. Will still be a nasty load to play with!

[megasupermagnum]

Some one is " a young fella" I used AL-7 & AL-8 when loading 3" goose loads. I still have some and use it in rifle cast loads. They were great powders.

I have never seen it, I had to look it up. It appears most of Alcan powders were discontinued around 1980, which was well before my time. I seem to recall AL-7 being some kind of goofy square shaped powder, or am I thinking about something else? Fine powder I'm sure, same with the SR-series of powders, but it is what it is. When I started loading shotgun, I started with powders that were old even for that time, but quickly latched onto Bluedot. HS-7 was still common then, as was SR 4756 and 800x. Alliant STEEL was the new kid on the block, but it never went anywhere. We are now seeing a rare few loads with STEEL for some stuff, but not much. Really what really put the big hit on these powders was the lead ban. Everyone was loading 1 1/2oz baby mags, or 3" 1 5/8oz magnums. When steel first came on the scene, people stuck with the big and slow, but didn't want to go up in sizes. 1 3/8 oz loads of #4 steel were common, and with the powders of the era were slower than advertised. Then reloaders went the whole other way, speed kills, but the powders of the time couldn't get much speed with a good payload. That's when you would see these crazy loads like a 3" 7/8 oz #4 steel (sometimes smaller) with a heap of Bluedot or HS-7. The 3 1/2" shell came out somewhere in there, and lots of people went to that. Eventually people came to their senses and realized they just had to use bigger shot. By then anyone loading steel shot was mostly using the new Alliant STEEL, or not loading at all, since factory ammo had kept up with the trend. Unfortunately we are now lacking that section of powders, and Bluedot is the only one that remains now that 800x is discontinued.