IMR4227 in Uberti 1858 with Taylor's 6 round cartridge conversion cylinder

[Johnny Diamond]

Did a search (I'm new here) looking for 850-900 fps 250 LRNFP starline brass

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[Johnny Diamond]

Oops 45LC

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[missionary5155]

First welcome to our Cast Boolit World.
I personally would phone Taylor's with your question. Is the barrel still stamped "Black Powder only" ?

[Outpost75]

4227 is not suitable for standard-pressure loads in .45 Colt which don't exceed 13,700 psi. 6 grains of Bullseye, Titegroup or WST approximate factory velocity and pressure with 250 -255 grain lead.

[Johnny Diamond]

Bought pistols in 2018 through Cabelas, cylinders through Taylor's at same time. Have never fired, smokeless ok, spoke with Taylor's who carried pistols at the time, only information they were willing to give was do not exceed 850 fps (guess that's fine with me) when I questioned about pressure (I've been reloading for years) they would not deviate from statement 850 fps max I have different powders for a reason... to achieve desired speed at desired pressure? I use IMR4227 for my 44mag and have several pounds, and for giggles measured 17 grains and poured in a case fills case a damn sight more to my liking than 6.2 of Titegroup. Again never fired.

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[Johnny Diamond]

I am accustomed to unburt powder with H/IMR 4227 so that is not a concern. Although I'm certain it could effect my Uberti's a lot quicker than my original 44mag Vaquero. I prefer a more filled case. 6.2 of Titegroup looked like a joke in such a large case. [emoji15]

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[Johnny Diamond]

AMMO.COM 250 grn. Lrnfp data, I typically crimp tight although I've never loaded lead before. That's why I'm here. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220115/6262f7288552b562fd572c7d124cc55c.jpg

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[Tar Heel]

I would use TiteGroup and keep the velocity to about 750 fps aka a Cowboy load. Taylor's specifies "Cowboy Loads" for smokeless powders and lead bullets. If you want higher velocities and/or more power, I suggest another platform. Don't let the looks of the volumetric fill disturb you. If you wish to fill the case, use FFFG black powder.
A uranium atom is a pretty small thing but when they split - well heck they go thermonuclear.

[Johnny Diamond]

Tarheel, thanks. I have 357s 44mags and 45/70s in lever and single shot they are fine for higher velocity and pressures thanks again.

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[Johnny Diamond]

Just bought a pound of FRESH Titegroup, looks like I'll load at 6gn. To drop just under 13k pressure. Thanks again all, think joining this group will prove to be one of my better decisions [emoji106]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220115/ad4276440e93ebb334ed523c62e0deb6.jpg

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[Walks]

Hodgdon list 5.0grs to 6.2grs of Titegroup under a 250gr bullet, in their Cowboy Action Data handout/booklet dated 1/03.

[Johnny Diamond]

Yepper, back in 2018 when I bought the pistols, and conversion cylinders I made a phone call and spoke to the fellow who claimed to have designed Titegroup. Rather colorful individual, almost couldn't get off the phone he said to use 6.2 grn. And I should be fine told me the max was about 880fps and with the 8 inch barrel I'd probably be OK. Never loaded not even with the almighty black.
Well now we find ourselves in 2022 I bought all I could all through 2020 and 2021 and loaded for everything else. So now it's time to load the 45 Colt rounds. Opened up the Titegroup after all this time and wow! No odour at all and I thought it would be flake to take up volume nope, so after finding out it's about 39% nitro and being that old I got a little nervous [emoji51] besides the fact that it looked like a pebble in the grand canyon at 6.2 grains in the 45 colt case ! So I looked around for loads with IMR4227 found really hot [emoji91]ones [emoji15] nooooo, and found 17-19 grains which I posted above. 17 grains doesn't look to bad in that big "old" case so I started looking around for yay's or nay's about it supposed to use tight crimp with H/IMR4227 which I do for my old model Vaquero in 44mag, I've never loaded lead, sooo I posted the question here and was suggested other than IMR4227 this morning I bought a brand new pound of Titegroup and figured I'd go 6grn after I found the above loads for 250grn LRNFP 6.2 says 1300k thought I'd try 6 and drop the pressure a bit?

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[Johnny Diamond]

Oops I meant to say the above listed 13000k pressure.

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[openbook]

I've successfully tested 6.5 gr Titegroup in a 45-70 case (Browning 1886) based on C. E. "Ed" Harris' two articles "The Load" and "Revisiting .30-06 Gallery and Practice Loads." Hodgdon says Titegroup was specially designed to be position-insensitive.

[Johnny Diamond]

That's what the man told me back in 2018, I simply let the powder sit since I spoke to manufacturer (2018) until now, recently opened container and discovered powder shape and size, and it's rather small size. As previously posted these are brand new (in 2018) unfired Uberti 1858 new model army and Taylor's 45lc conversion cylinders. I'm relatively sure the cylinders are probably stronger than the pistols? Anyway I see no reason to damage them or myself, the are kinda pretty and not intended as concealed cary or primary defense weapons. Just wanted a decent load.
I am curious about velocity and chrono info in those 45/70 loads just for the heck of it.... been loading that cartridge since 2001 and have my favorite loads already worked up.

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[openbook]

I regret to disappoint, but I don't have a chrony!

[Johnny Diamond]

Thanks anyway, [emoji4] let's all stay safe and have a BLAST!!

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[openbook]

Although it's not specific to my 6.5 gr of Titegroup, Larry Gibson's excellent thread "My Trapdoor Loads, Technique and Equipment" has velocity data for various 45-70 loads from lightweight Rapine 460210 with small charges up to 500gr boolits.

I particularly like Part V; “foraging”, small game, plinking and indoor practice loads.

[Johnny Diamond]

That's my pride and joy, Uberti 1885 Highwall 34" octagonal barrel globe front long range rear with cleaning kit removed from buttstock and and 1 3/4 pounds of lead shot in its place. Also have a JM Marlin 1895 cowboy 26" octagonal barrel. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220116/36dadb6fa5c26632668dfe39ed3be9fa.jpg

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[openbook]

Handsome rifle. 34" barrel! It's funny when most would consider 24" long.

[Johnny Diamond]

Yepper buddy, my 1895cb 26" barrel my two 1894s are 20 and 16" respectively and my two R92s are each 24" that n right ther stands out in the case [emoji3] !

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[farmbif]

7.5 grains of silhouette powder will do exactly what your wanting to do with that 1858. its one of those powders that I look at like unsung heroes, its not super popular like unique, bullseye or red dot so it might not be too difficult too find now that there are shortages of just about everything. but I think it has some excellent charictaristics, like it flows through my powder measure very accurately, it really shines in semi auto high velocity loads in .380, 9mm and 40 s&w, three ive tried it in anyway and also works quite well for downloaded 45 colt as well as 30,000psi loads

[Johnny Diamond]

I ordered Titegroup on Saturday, reluctantly as I still would have preferred a more filled case but as it was available I thought I had better. Would still prefer something more bulky or larger charge [emoji848] oh well. Thanks though very much. A really helpful group here!!

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[Outpost75]

TiteGroup, Bullseye and WST all tolerate free airspace in the case well and are not position sensitive. Bullseye in particular was used for loading factory lead ammunition in the .45 Colt for over 100 years, the standard charge being 6.5 grains with a 250 or 6 grains with a 255-grain lead conical in solid-head cases at a sample average pressure not exceeding 13,700 cup.

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[Johnny Diamond]

Outpost, that's very interesting I will consider that for the future if we ever get out of the Strange world we find ourselves in currently.

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[Johnny Diamond]

I was only able to view the above sample photos this morning??? At any rate here is what I have a fair supply of Desperado Cowboy Bullets 250grn LRNFP .454 soft lead. I most definitely have never been fortunate enough to have run into such a cordial bunch of folks. I'm exceedingly grateful. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220118/c962193460b5408b421b1c5d515630ba.jpg

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[Travisbishop]

I've been working on loads for my Pietta 1858. It's a color cased 5 1/2 inch.I make my own black powder and caps, but wanted to try out some smokeless stuff. I've got 50 pounds of Red Dot I bought back in the 80's. I started with that in 45 Colt cylinder. Recently, I bought a 'test' gun. A Pietta 1858 regular 8 inch smoke wagon. I've been loose loading Red Dot and Nitro 1000 under 454 round balls. Going up 1/2 grain at a time. So far, I'm getting consistent 1050 fps out of it, but accuracy obviously is an issue. Going to step it up to conicals and see if I can get Minute Of Bad Guy out of it. I'm getting skeered to go much higher than where I'm at.I know it's a bad idea to stoke up a cap gun with smokeless, but sometimes you just gotta live it up a little.