.38spl 135gr GDHPSB in a non +P revolver

[ddixie884]

Anyone doing this?

[pettypace]

I've fired a handful of SB Gold Dots through a 640 for testing purposes and doubt I could afford enough to strain that gun. Although I treat my alloy J-frame more gently, concern for the gun wouldn't prevent me from emptying a cylinder full under extenuating circumstances.

From a "theoretical" point of view, I'd expect a 135 grain Gold Dot at 850 f/s (216 ft-lb) to be easier on the gun than, say, a 110 grain bullet at 1100 ft/s (297 ft-lb). That extra 80 ft-lb of energy comes from extra strain on the gun without necessarily increasing the effectiveness of the cartridge.

[Outpost75]

Larry Gibson pressure tested and confirmed a non+P load for me to use in my S&W Model 12 Airweight. The Speer 135 GDHP requires 750 fps to expand in water jugs. A charge of 4.3 grains of Bullseye gives 770 fps from a 2-inch snub and reliably expands to .50 cal. in water at standard pressure. Payload and velocity approximates the Vietnam - era Ball M41.

[pettypace]

Payload and velocity approximates the Vietnam - era Ball M41.

Yes. But with an 80% increase in permanent cavity wound mass (by MacPherson's reckoning).

Makes me wonder what advantage the Vietnam War era M41 ball was supposed to have over Spanish-American War era .38 Long Colt ammo? At least .38 Special LRN "tumbles." Or is the M41 ball also a tumbler?

[ddixie884]

Larry pressure tested some of these factory loaded .38spl 135gr GDHPSB rnds for me and they averaged 16,600psi. That is less than the 17,000 limit on standard .38spls.

[Outpost75]

M41 fired from S&W 2" snub does flip.

[ddixie884]

Larry Gibson pressure tested and confirmed a non+P load for me to use in my S&W Model 12 Airweight. The Speer 135 GDHP requires 750 fps to expand in water jugs. A charge of 4.3 grains of Bullseye gives 770 fps from a 2-inch snub and reliably expands to .50 cal. in water at standard pressure. Payload and velocity approximates the Vietnam - era Ball M41.

What was the pressure of that 4.3gr BE load with the 135gr GDHP?

[Treeman]

I do not believe in the non +P .38 Special. I am not saying that standard pressure loads don't work or that Larry Gibson's test results showing that the 135GDHPSB was actually standard pressure is false. I mean that looking at the looooong history of .38 special I have decided that I am totally unconcerned about a safety issue with SAAMI +P 38 Special in any gun chambered for .38 Special that is in sound firing condition. As for accelerated wear.....Oh to be able to shoot enough to tell!

[Larry Gibson]

Test firearm was the Contender with 7.94” 357 magnum barrel as used in previous tests with the Oehler m43 PBL. As per your request I used Winchester W-W cases with WSP primers. The loads tested were 4.1, 4.4, 4.7 and 5 gr Bullseye. 5.8 gr of Unique was also tested as it was a max load listed. The oal was 1.445”. All charges were weight verified and thrown with a Lyman 55 Powder measure. Velocities are at the muzzle. All test strings were 10 shots.

Prior to testing the GDs I ran a 10 shot test of Remington 125 gr JHP +P as a “control”;

They ran 1139 fps, SD 18 fps, ES 56 fps, psi 15,100, 1.9” group [I never was overly impressed with the ballistics of that load but it was accurate]

The 4.1 gr Bullseye load ran 785 fps, SD 16 fps, ES 54 fps, psi 14,800

The 4.4 gr Bullseye load ran 849 fps, SD 13 fps, ES 41 fps, psi 16,400

The 4.7 gr Bullseye load ran 905 fps, SD 16 fps, ES 54 fps, psi 18,400

The 5.0 gr Bullseye load ran 1010 fps, SD 16 fps, ES 45 fps, psi 21,000

The 5.8 gr load of Unique ran 970 fps, SD 24 fps, ES 80 fps, psi 18,300

I was not overly impressed with the accuracy of any of the loads. Groups with the GDs ran 4 – 6” at 50 yards. After completing the GD tests I shot another test string with the Remington 125 JHPs. That group was 2.1” so nothing had loosened up on the test Contender…..or me…..

[ddixie884]

Larry, I personally and I think most of the other posters here really appreciate you sharing your carefully collected data with us............

[tazman]

Larry, I personally and I think most of the other posters here really appreciate you sharing your carefully collected data with us............

I agree completely.

[stubshaft]

Great job as usual Larry:drinks: