Max penetration from 44mag?

[Lakehouse2012]

Hi Guys,

I need some help from the experienced 44 mag guys... This year at "the camp" in Northern Michigan a group of us guys are getting together and the theme this year is Big Bore. One of the guys asked me how do we determine who has the biggest gun....? (yeah, I know, not going in that direction)

I've shot 44 mag for 20+ years, always Ruger wheelguns, but normally just a 240g GC with H110, bullet is usually my casts using multiple MP molds.

Question is: How can I turn a load into the HOTTEST it can be to punch through engine blocks? Thats gonna be the challenge this year, engine blocks and 1" thick green oak lumber. I would like to keep with my cast stuff, but maybe there is a certain type of projectile to buy?

Turn up the tin content?

Somehow steel core them?

Maybe HP's with Titanium inserts?

Im looking for crazy ideas that I will make safe prior to doing anything too stupid...

[cwtebay]

I would bet that hard cast will win that. Potentially someone could steel core some rounds and do a bit better.
But if you're REALLY wanting to win - I've got a few 0.439 cast in depleted uranium for sale.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[cwtebay]

ATF ^^^^that was a joke!!!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[megasupermagnum]

Unlike soft targets, hard targets like light and fast. Even heat treated lead doesn't do all that great on hard targets like engine blocks, no better than FMJ anyway. If I really wanted to win a bet, I'd be looking at a copper solid, Something like the Lehigh xtreme penetrator bullet, the lightest I could get, driven as fast as they go.

If you really wanted to stick with homemade, I'd try some hard cast, drill out the center with a drill bit, and epoxy a matching steel rod in place. Maybe try 1/4" steel rod.

[Lakehouse2012]

ATF ^^^^that was a joke!!!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

HAHAHA!!!!

I laughed HARD at this one, although I was thinking of sending you a PM, just in case...

[rintinglen]

The utmost penetration that I ever read of was achieved by taking 7/16" steel rod and turning it down until it fit in a swaging copper jacket. The rod was cut and the nose tapered to give a truncated cone and it was swaged into the jacket. I do not remember the powder charges, but it was launched at very high velocity. IIRC, the write up was in American Handgunner back in the late 70's.

However, before you fire up the lathe and start searching the internet for Copper swaging supplies, a round like that is tres illegal now. The legislation that outlawed so called "cop-killer" bullets has language that forbids making such things under penalty of law.

[R-71]

The utmost penetration that I ever read of was achieved by taking 7/16" steel rod and turning it down until it fit in a swaging copper jacket. The rod was cut and the nose tapered to give a truncated cone and it was swaged into the jacket. I do not remember the powder charges, but it was launched at very high velocity. IIRC, the write up was in American Handgunner back in the late 70's.

However, before you fire up the lath and start searching the internet for Copper swaging supplies, a round like that is tres illegal now. The legislation that outlawed so called "cop-killer" bullets has language that forbids making such things under penalty of law.

Strictly speaking I think it’s illegal to sell them, not possess or use.

I’d keep it simple and purchase some the solid copper loads or bullets.

[badguybuster]

You might look at those extreme penetrator offerings by Lehigh Defense. They are usually like for caliber and scooting fasf

[stubshaft]

Hardened steel core would be my choice too.

[M-Tecs]

Just purchase some of these https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=562 They are in stock.

[HWooldridge]

Maybe not as good as steel, but straight linotype works pretty well - I've ruptured 1/4" steel plate at close range with a really stiff load of WW296. This was out of a 6-1/2" M29. A friend of mine had an old dead pickup parked on his place and we used to shoot it with all types of ammo. The linotype would not go straight through the block but it would break a cylinder. Would also easily shoot through the body.

The best fun was another friend who had an original MG34 and some AP ammo. The results would remove all doubt of why people invented tanks...

[contender1]

Monolithic solids used for seriously dangerous big game made of brass have been doing some serious penetration into most mediums. I've never had the need,, but I've followed the discussions by folks who have used them or tried them. This is in handguns.
Many high powered rifles,, firing standard military FMJ bullets have punched steel plates or seriously damaged many of them. I have some AR500 pepper poppers on my range. One has a serious divot in it from a military .223 round.

[zarrinvz24]

If one has a lathe, I'd be looking at McMaster Carr's .500" x 12" rod of Ultra-Dense Tungsten. . . .

To those suggesting copper or brass solids, "these are not the droids you are looking for."

If you don't have access to a lathe, and definitly want to use something that you've cast yourself; I think the best option for you is a 429303 mold cast using zinc instead of lead. Seated deep over a maximum charge of H110 w/ HEAVY crimp is about the best you can do given the limitations.

[cwtebay]

Have you ever seen the crimp that Tim puts on these monster stompers?
Needless to say, I don't think you could do much better than Buffalo Bore ammunition for your proposal.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220112/4c0094d0df5ac8ff96c8fc919abb7af4.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[cwlongshot]

You might look at those extreme penetrator offerings by Lehigh Defense. They are usually like for caliber and scooting fasf
None will shoot thru engine blocks.

"Armor" piercing ammo in a HG is illegal..

Hard cast will shatter on a real hard target.

Lehigh will as well BUT will hold up better.

A number of bouteaque companies offer penetrators that might do "better".

But If I was rolling my own Id cast "real" hard cast. If I wanted "more" Id buy those leigh.

CW

[rintinglen]

Strictly speaking I think it’s illegal to sell them, not possess or use.

I’d keep it simple and purchase some the solid copper loads or bullets.

Actually it is the importation, sale OR manufacture that is illegal and subject to a stiff fine and up to 5 years in prison.

[RJM52]

Back before the sale was outlawed, there was a company who made what they called "Black Steel"...in calibers from .380 up... Carbide pointed core in a 3/4s length jacket like the old Speer bullets. Another kind they marketed had some driving bands on the hardened penetrator.

Had some .380s and tried them in a Walther PPK/s... Shot a steel Subaru wheel that had been dented. The standard ball ammo barely took the paint off. The Black Steel put a hole through the rim that looked like it had been drilled...from a .380!!

Found on the ATF website as to the 1986 ban...the Black Steel Armor and Metal piercing rounds were made by the National Cartridge Company in Georgia...

[cwtebay]

This is copied from the ATF website.


Armor Piercing Ammunition Exemption Framework
The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, provides the Attorney General the authority to exempt projectiles from the restrictions applicable to “armor piercing” ammunition if he determines the projectile is “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.” Between 1986 and 2011 the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) received few requests for such exemptions. Since 2011 ATF has received approximately 30 such exemption requests.

The GCA defines “armor piercing ammunition” as:

“(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.”

Pursuant to the GCA, ammunition that meets this definition may be eligible for an exemption from the statutory restrictions placed on armor piercing ammunition if ATF finds the ammunition is “primarily intended” for sporting purposes. As part of its review process of the pending exemption requests, ATF sought input from industry and law enforcement organizations on the application of the “sporting purpose” exemption set forth in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(C).

ATF released for public comment a framework, including legal and technical analysis, to guide its determinations on what ammunition is “primarily intended for sporting purposes.” The framework is intended to uphold the requirements of the statute and its goal of law enforcement protection while respecting the interests of sportsmen and the industry. The framework is not a final determination; ATF will accept comments for 30 days, and will finalize the framework after considering those comments and making any appropriate adjustments.

It is important to note that the limitation on “armor piercing ammunition” in the GCA does not apply to projectiles manufactured exclusively from non-restricted materials such as copper and lead; it only applies to projectiles that include the specifically restricted materials, and can be used in a handgun. The framework will not apply to projectiles manufactured exclusively from non-restricted materials; licensed manufacturers will continue to be free to manufacture such projectiles without seeking an exemption.

Headquarters

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[sierra1911]

I'd heavily crimp it into a 444 Marlin case with a max load of powder, slide it into my 14" barreled single shot Lone Eagle, and hang on for dear life when I pulled the trigger. Should have around 3,000 foot-lbs of energy.

Although I've offered many times, no one else at the range has ever wanted to shoot that pistol. One commented, "No way! I just watched you shoot it."

[longbow]

No personal experience but I have read and been told that the Lyman 429303 will penetrate 3/16" steel plate at close range. It is a 200 gr. boolit pushed at high velocity.

There are a bunch of threads here on it and I'm sure on other sites.

High velocity seems to be the key for penetrating hard targets.

For a cast boolit it may be your best bet.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?319717-Lyman-429-303
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?69549-Lyman-429303-Arrowpoint-Woes
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?267149-Lyman-429303
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?192757-lyman-429303
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?254316-School-me-on-lyman-429303

Longbow

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Lots of exotic ideas, But I'd just stick with a Lead alloy boolit, myself.

Alloys with high antimony content will more likely shatter on impact, which dilutes the energy.

an alloy with equal parts antimony and tin will be "tougher" and more likely to hold together than alloys that don't have equal proportions...which will deliver the most energy to the target, making the best chance to penetrate it.

Myself,
I'd cast some Lyman #2 alloy, then heat treat, you'll likely get near 30 BHN.
(I have heat treated 94-3-3 up to 24 BHN)
I'd use a heavy boolit, like the Lee 310gr RF and work up a load with H110.
Good Luck

[brass410]

How do you prep them blocks and boards for table fare ? Where do you hunt them, scrap yards or saw mills ? can you use bait? is there case restrictions? Will a resident guide be required? Do you have to lottery draw for tags or are they like a small game add on sticker? Are they gender restricted or do they even gender identify? Will the forestry people be protesting with foundry people like the PETA people for harvesting defenseless creations? Enquiring minds want to know I couldnt find anthing in the regs about this type of safari hunt your going on, but have lots of questions maybe some one will jump in. LOL

[Lakehouse2012]

You guys are awesome with all the info, thank you!! I wont go down the path of cores, but will go after lathe work of solid coppers and tin. I'll need to figure out how to get that fancy crimp like Tim does....

I can feel the wrist pain already!

Keep the ideas coming, thank you!!

[Lakehouse2012]

:bigsmyl2:

We raise some huge grain-fed blocks here in the mitten state, most have grown old and put to pasture. Easy pickin' when a buddy says he wants his barn cleaned out.

Boards turn out to be easy too, just finished sawing up trees last month and had some left over that I didnt want to sticker...

Lottery draw wont go very smooth I suspect, hunters will probably be pushing to the front of the line to get first crack at the few CI beasts we come up with. I'll wait until everyone's wrists are spent and finish off the beasts...

Then we will go back inside to eat lots of PETA bread and drink mead.

location is top secret, maybe I'll get some pics if everyone has their hunting gear on.

Thanks for the laugh :)


How do you prep them blocks and boards for table fare ? Where do you hunt them, scrap yards or saw mills ? can you use bait? is there case restrictions? Will a resident guide be required? Do you have to lottery draw for tags or are they like a small game add on sticker? Are they gender restricted or do they even gender identify? Will the forestry people be protesting with foundry people like the PETA people for harvesting defenseless creations? Enquiring minds want to know I couldnt find anthing in the regs about this type of safari hunt your going on, but have lots of questions maybe some one will jump in. LOL

[cwtebay]

Hypothetically a 410 pistol would be the most efficient. A tungsten or similar rod inside of a sabot could be fired at velocities that would likely excede any 44 Mag.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[david s]

Don't know if they sill make bullets or not but you might look up BELT MOUNTAIN and see if they still make 44 bulets.

[black mamba]

I'd use this one, as fast as I could drive it. https://cuttingedgebullets.com/44-240gr-handgun-solid

[BD]

Penetrating single layer hard targets is all about energy/area, (typically smaller diameter and higher velocity wins this). Penetrating an assembly, (multiple layers) is more about momentum and structural integrity, (larger, tougher and slower typically wins in this case). If I was after cast iron engine blocks, I'd be tempted to use the Lee 310 with plenty of tin in the alloy. As always, boolit placement is the key. I'd be tempted to aim 4" above the oil pan from the side. Better chance of getting through the rods then through multiple cylinder walls and pistons.

[M-Tecs]

I'd use this one, as fast as I could drive it. https://cuttingedgebullets.com/44-240gr-handgun-solid

Thanks, I was not aware of these. I will have to give them a try.

[RKJ]

I would be interested in the results of this affair. It sounds like fun. I'm glad it's y'all though and I'll be happy to just read of the results, my hands and wrists are just fine with 10 grains of Unique under a 240 cast SWC in my 629. :)

[Lakehouse2012]

I would be interested in the results of this affair. It sounds like fun. I'm glad it's y'all though and I'll be happy to just read of the results, my hands and wrists are just fine with 10 grains of Unique under a 240 cast SWC in my 629. :)

Our event is the 1st weekend in March, so my posting is to give me enough time to build and test. But I promise that after the event, there will be a detailed update. Unless some others beat me to it :)

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'd use this one, as fast as I could drive it. https://cuttingedgebullets.com/44-240gr-handgun-solid


Thanks, I was not aware of these. I will have to give them a try.

$1 each, not that bad of a price for a solid Cu projectile.
I fished though the data sheets, They don't say what diameter for 44 cal ?
But since they do list a 41 cal as .409 then I suspect the 44 cal is .428 ?
That might be not the best for a Marlin levergun.

[black mamba]

I think the Cutting Edge .44 bullets are at least .430. I ordered some for my Bullberry 44 mag Encore barrel which is so tight it will only accept bullets up to .4295" and they wouldn't chamber. I had to return them, even though I was dying to try them on whitetails.

[725]

As mentioned, I'd go with straight Linotype and speed 'em up.

[Forrest r]

It wouldn't hurt to play around with some 40s& w cases. They make excellent bullet jackets for the 44mag. A couple years ago I did a little testing using them to make 44cal bullets for the 44spl/mag. The main thrust was to make a hunting hp for the 44mag. This is what I ended up with.
https://i.imgur.com/QOZKxm4.jpg?2

While testing I did make up some jacketed hbwc's using 9mm cases for .357" bullets and the 40s&w cases for .429" bullets. With the 40s&w brass I made a custom expander and opened them up. Then I used plumber's flux and a cast bullet for a core. Put the expanded case with the flux/lead bullet (core) into a cast iron skillet (+/- 200 of them) and put the pan in the gas grill and turned it on high and shut the lid. +/- 10 minutes later the cores and melted. Shut the grill off and let everything air cooled. The end result was a jacketed hbwc with a bonded core. I ran those hbwc's thru a lee .429" sizing die for the final sizing.

The end result was a jacketed hbwc bullet that could be loaded/shot traditionally in the 44cal's. It was an excellent type III hbwc with the actual base of the 40s&w case smaller then the diameter off the bullet (tapered nose). They could also be turned around and used as a huge hp/cookie cutter. I was mainly interested in the huge jacketed cookie cutter hp and tested them in a snubnosed charter arms revolver. These are the 44psl bullets I tested included the jacketed hbwc's.
https://i.imgur.com/xcnl3kR.jpg

This is what the recovered bonded cored hbwc's looked like, noth the 38spl & 44spl hbwc's were shot in snubnosed revolvers.
https://i.imgur.com/ssPg90t.jpg

Did a little testing with screwing hardened screws into the flash holes on the 40s&w cases (panhead & hex head) and then bonded the cores. Also put the screws in from the inside so that the threads were sticking out the base of the 44s&w case and then bonded the cores locking everything together. I can only say these bullets were extremely impressive/destructive in hot 44mag loads in a 6 1/2" bbl'd 629 and a 10" contender.

Actually it would be cave man simple to turn down some O1 to whatever shape/design you want. Then press fit the 01 core into a 40s&w case. I'm sure that bullet would do what you're trying to accomplish.

[kenton]

I have thought about shoving short sections of TIG Tungsten into 110gr hollow point 357 loads. Never followed through on it though, local dumb ass ended up serving time because he thought the ATF wasn't serious.

[fenderman57]

Maybe something like this, http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-335G ,heat treated ww alloy.

[beagle]

You might locate some of the old Norma Re loads made for the Ruger carbine way back when. Ought to be some around. Not supposed to but I shot some in a Model 29 6 1/2" once against a SBH against refrigerators at the local dump. Three side by side and that load would go through two, thru the side of the third and almost penetrate the other side. Impressed me with both the penetration and recoil.
The 429303 cast hard has a reputation as a great penetrator as well by they're hard to cast and carry too much lube. Somebody here may let you have some to play with./beagle

[Lakehouse2012]

You might locate some of the old Norma Re loads made for the Ruger carbine way back when. Ought to be some around. Not supposed to but I shot some in a Model 29 6 1/2" once against a SBH against refrigerators at the local dump. Three side by side and that load would go through two, thru the side of the third and almost penetrate the other side. Impressed me with both the penetration and recoil.
The 429303 cast hard has a reputation as a great penetrator as well by they're hard to cast and carry too much lube. Somebody here may let you have some to play with./beagle

Great minds must think alike, a buddy (Jon) on here saw this thread and reached out to me, said he had the 429303 mold and was casting some up for me. I just received them in the mail today and am going to size/GC them up and start testing. I'll have to let them crystalize for a few more weeks, but no harm in jamming them into cases while they harden...

Thanks!!

[Lakehouse2012]

It wouldn't hurt to play around with some 40s& w cases. They make excellent bullet jackets for the 44mag. A couple years ago I did a little testing using them to make 44cal bullets for the 44spl/mag. The main thrust was to make a hunting hp for the 44mag. This is what I ended up with.
https://i.imgur.com/QOZKxm4.jpg?2

While testing I did make up some jacketed hbwc's using 9mm cases for .357" bullets and the 40s&w cases for .429" bullets. With the 40s&w brass I made a custom expander and opened them up. Then I used plumber's flux and a cast bullet for a core. Put the expanded case with the flux/lead bullet (core) into a cast iron skillet (+/- 200 of them) and put the pan in the gas grill and turned it on high and shut the lid. +/- 10 minutes later the cores and melted. Shut the grill off and let everything air cooled. The end result was a jacketed hbwc with a bonded core. I ran those hbwc's thru a lee .429" sizing die for the final sizing.

The end result was a jacketed hbwc bullet that could be loaded/shot traditionally in the 44cal's. It was an excellent type III hbwc with the actual base of the 40s&w case smaller then the diameter off the bullet (tapered nose). They could also be turned around and used as a huge hp/cookie cutter. I was mainly interested in the huge jacketed cookie cutter hp and tested them in a snubnosed charter arms revolver. These are the 44psl bullets I tested included the jacketed hbwc's.
https://i.imgur.com/xcnl3kR.jpg

This is what the recovered bonded cored hbwc's looked like, noth the 38spl & 44spl hbwc's were shot in snubnosed revolvers.
https://i.imgur.com/ssPg90t.jpg

Did a little testing with screwing hardened screws into the flash holes on the 40s&w cases (panhead & hex head) and then bonded the cores. Also put the screws in from the inside so that the threads were sticking out the base of the 44s&w case and then bonded the cores locking everything together. I can only say these bullets were extremely impressive/destructive in hot 44mag loads in a 6 1/2" bbl'd 629 and a 10" contender.

Actually it would be cave man simple to turn down some O1 to whatever shape/design you want. Then press fit the 01 core into a 40s&w case. I'm sure that bullet would do what you're trying to accomplish.You've really got my interest on this one Forrest.

I've always had a hatred for 40cal... [emoji38]

And a buddy and I have been working on the swagging project for 223, I think I can build cores for the 40cal and then swage to a semi-point.

Here are 77g projectiles we have made from spent 22LR:


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220120/84f5a0f8f0ad78e4e743c29756022814.jpg

Sent from my SM-A526U using Tapatalk

[GL49]

I was waiting for someone else to say that this might not be the best of ideas you've ever had, it doesn't seem to have happened. Now I'm going to have to rat on myself. Here's the story from 1975.
When I first got my SBH 44 magnum, I had to try this on an engine block. Since my buddy I worked with also had a 44, we worked up a whomp-em stomp-em load using hard cast boolits. Mike had the casting equipment, so we used WW's with some lino added, and nope, I can't tell you the alloy. I know it was what Mike termed as "hard".
We loaded up 50 of these using H-110 and planned to go out to some property I owned, there just happened to be an old engine block by a cabin we were going to try it on. Well, Mike couldn't go on Saturday so I went by myself. Monday morning, when I gave Mike the remaining 49 cartridges, and the remaining testing rights, I explained.
At a range of about......mmmm....., six to eight feet I picked a spot on the block I thought I could shoot through. Raised the .44, pulled the trigger, and wowee!. Since it was a hot summer day and all I had on was a T-shirt, I got the full benefit of the experience. It was as if 30 hornets decided to attack my midsection, all at the same time. Upon raising my shirt to see the bee stings, I found little silvery pieces of what had to be that doggone boolit that had come apart into a jillion pieces.
If you're going to shoot at engine blocks, don't pick a 390 block from a Ford, or at least pick a different spot than I did. Ford blocks are tougher than you might think.
Remember the part in the journals of Lewis and Clark when they were describing grizzly bear experiences and they wrote, "I find that the curiossity of our party is pretty well satisfied with rispect to this anamal..."
I pretty much had my curiosity about 44's and engine blocks...satisfied.
If you need to hear about other stupid things to do with a .44, I'll tell my stories on a need to know basis.

Make sure you're the one that gets to hold the beer.
I'll bet everyone would love to see the videos.:bigsmyl2:

[lar45]

Many years ago in my younger days,,, I found some 330gn hard cast 44 bullets and proceeded to load them with a heavily compressed charge of 296 which delivered just over 1500fps from my Ruger Super Redhawk. That bullet would penetrate 18" of live green pine tree. Now I am not suggesting that you load them that hot, I never should have. If you are looking for maximum penetration, I would go with the heaviest hard cast bullet you can find. I don't have any experience with shooting engine blocks, so no help there.
Have fun and be safe.

[Lakehouse2012]

I was waiting for someone else to say that this might not be the best of ideas you've ever had, it doesn't seem to have happened. Now I'm going to have to rat on myself. Here's the story from 1975.
When I first got my SBH 44 magnum, I had to try this on an engine block. Since my buddy I worked with also had a 44, we worked up a whomp-em stomp-em load using hard cast boolits. Mike had the casting equipment, so we used WW's with some lino added, and nope, I can't tell you the alloy. I know it was what Mike termed as "hard".
We loaded up 50 of these using H-110 and planned to go out to some property I owned, there just happened to be an old engine block by a cabin we were going to try it on. Well, Mike couldn't go on Saturday so I went by myself. Monday morning, when I gave Mike the remaining 49 cartridges, and the remaining testing rights, I explained.
At a range of about......mmmm....., six to eight feet I picked a spot on the block I thought I could shoot through. Raised the .44, pulled the trigger, and wowee!. Since it was a hot summer day and all I had on was a T-shirt, I got the full benefit of the experience. It was as if 30 hornets decided to attack my midsection, all at the same time. Upon raising my shirt to see the bee stings, I found little silvery pieces of what had to be that doggone boolit that had come apart into a jillion pieces.
If you're going to shoot at engine blocks, don't pick a 390 block from a Ford, or at least pick a different spot than I did. Ford blocks are tougher than you might think.
Remember the part in the journals of Lewis and Clark when they were describing grizzly bear experiences and they wrote, "I find that the curiossity of our party is pretty well satisfied with rispect to this anamal..."
I pretty much had my curiosity about 44's and engine blocks...satisfied.
If you need to hear about other stupid things to do with a .44, I'll tell my stories on a need to know basis.

Make sure you're the one that gets to hold the beer.
I'll bet everyone would love to see the videos.:bigsmyl2:

Wow that's a GREAT one! If only there was youtube back in our younger days.... I too have some of those stories to tell...

Regarding safety- I think we were only able to find a cast aluminum block of the Asian variety and plan will be some distance greater than 50 to 100 ft. Everyone will be behind cover.

[GL49]

Wow that's a GREAT one! If only there was youtube back in our younger days.... I too have some of those stories to tell...

Regarding safety- I think we were only able to find a cast aluminum block of the Asian variety and plan will be some distance greater than 50 to 100 ft. Everyone will be behind cover.

I know 45+ years ago at age 25, I got a lot smarter, a lot faster. Mike and I had planned for minimum distance/velocity loss, maximum power, we just hadn't figured in the zero brains part. That came a little later.
Sounds like you've thought it through before carrying out your plan.

[GLynn41]

tried an old Buick a few times bumper, fenders, frame no engine I too got"stung" .357 173 Keith 6" Trooper and 296
.41 mag TC LYMAN 410459 straight lino came out at 202 gr target O2 tank -- it did "hole" the tank no sign left of the bullet.. btw never touch the green tank as it turns white it will hold on to you.....
any way if cast 280 + gr? hardened, look at alloys that are tuff and hard ...add some copper powder to toughen it so I have heard ?-- may be a thread on it ..... ?
jack up vel some what... shoot for thin spots. have fun report back