pine shavings vs sawdust for flux

[doulos]

Just as the title says. Can shavings be used as well as sawdust?

[Cast10]

Sawdust, yes. As long as its not from treated wood. Chemicals. I’ve been using sawdust from white wood/cabinet shop. Works for me.

[PJEagle]

They will both work. Untreated pine is the best.

[lightman]

Yes, either will work fine.

[imashooter2]

Smaller/thinner chips burn off faster and easier.

[Pablo 5959]

I use pine shavings from Tractor Supply. They seam to work fine. $5. Worth goes a long way.

[Mitch]

Table saw,jointer.planer,chain saw,Have all worked for me.I agree pine is best.

[Glwenzl]

Last Sunday I used some pine chips from my spiral head planer (not fine dust) along with candle wax. I really like how it fluxed the pot better using both verses one or the other. The pine was some Nebraska beetle killed pine that was over 10 Years old but still a little sappy when I went to work it. The chips didn’t appear to be sappy at all.

I have a barrel full of oak and one full of walnut (walnut fine) figured I try them next.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I prefer dust over chips, but it all works, but dust works better.

[Mal Paso]

Last Sunday I used some pine chips from my spiral head planer (not fine dust) along with candle wax. I really like how it fluxed the pot better using both verses one or the other. The pine was some Nebraska beetle killed pine that was over 10 Years old but still a little sappy when I went to work it. The chips didn’t appear to be sappy at all.

I have a barrel full of oak and one full of walnut (walnut fine) figured I try them next.

I just got a spiral head planer, I had 3 Cubic Yards of chips in No Time! Cedar and Oak.

I was thinking of S&S but the postage is more than the chips are worth.

[44Blam]

I just got a spiral head planer, I had 3 Cubic Yards of chips in No Time! Cedar and Oak.

I was thinking of S&S but the postage is more than the chips are worth.

Cedar smells so nice... :D

[Tazman1602]

Brownells magnaflux or Frankfort Armory flux has worked fine for me for over 20 years.

Art

[cwtebay]

+1 on the table saw and jointer leavings. Do NOT decide to use green treat sawdust! Learned that one the hard way after putting in the wife's chicken coup!! I don't believe the smell is completely gone after 4 years.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[ioon44]

I use pine shavings that are sold as pet bedding.

[Three44s]

Pine that’s “pitchy” would be even better. Pitch acts like rosin and more aggressively fluxes the melt.

Three44s

[bangerjim]

Any organic matter that is carbon-based will work, as long as it does not have other chemicals in it like treated lumber does. I even used dried leaves & small sticks in the back yard.

A fluxing agent is NOT limited to just pine wood!!!!!!!!

[popper]

If using a bottom pour pot it can clog the spout and cause inclusions in your bullets. Burned stuff collects in the alloy and hard to get it all out. I just use candle/bees wax.

[cwtebay]

My great grandfather's method for his sinkers and bullets (and toy soldiers for us....) was dried horse manure - from a young horse preferably. I do still use that on occasion.

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[imashooter2]

Stirring with a stick or piece of lath works too.

I stir my pine pet bedding in with a commercial paint stirrer. They keep them behind the counter at the local home center, free for the asking.

[littlejack]

:goodpost:

[bangerjim]

Wax is a reducer..... and puts the Sn & Sb back into your alloy from the sludge on the top.

To clean really dirty COWW re-melts, you should try (three times) a flux like wood of some kind. Then on the final flux use wax to get a perfectly clean batch of COWW's ready for ingots. I use bees wax 100% of the time. Higher flash point and lovely smell! Only takes 2 or 3 pea-sized pieces to git-er-dun.

Also use bees wax in your casting pot to keep the Sn in solution and a mirror-bright surface during casting. 1 pea sized hunk does it.


banger :guntootsmiley:

[openbook]

I've been using beeswax so far, but saved up some sawdust from building my reloading bench. Now after seeing the comments on using dust from pressure treated wood, I'm questioning my decision to save the plywood stuff.

[PopcornSutton]

I cast bullets for accuracy rifle. I don't want any added impurities I can avoid. I use beeswax only, and stir and roll to get as much impurities as I can out. Putting impurities in the mix just doesn't make sense to me. Do they all float to the top?

[higgins]

If you want oiled sawdust or chips look under the sprocket cover on your chain saw.

[imashooter2]

I cast bullets for accuracy rifle. I don't want any added impurities I can avoid. I use beeswax only, and stir and roll to get as much impurities as I can out. Putting impurities in the mix just doesn't make sense to me. Do they all float to the top?

Just like the carbon the beeswax burns into.

[Land Owner]

Either will work, and the pedigree of one versus the other is about equal, but pine shavings smell SO GOOD as they burn!

[kevin c]

I’ve used both, with about equal effectiveness, as best I can tell. Using a slotted spoon or strainer, it does seem easier to scoop out the coarser ash particles left from shavings compared to sawdust, though.

[PopcornSutton]

Just like the carbon the beeswax burns into.

I've never seen any residue left from beeswax. Sawdust? Plenty.

[jeepyj]

I bottom pour, I use sawdust because I have a collection bin under the chop saw and I'm 99% pine. My opinion chips are okay but sawdust is a bit better. Everyone has thoughts but my method is to flux occasionally with a dab of wax and a dash of dust. I stir in and leave the dross on the top of the pot to prevent oxidizing. After it seems there is excessive amount of dross I will skim and start again.

[JimB..]

None of this matters, it’s 9mm vs 45acp, whipped cream vs merengue, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin kinda stuff.

FWIW, for the smelting pot I used thin shavings from hand planing.

[kerreckt]

I use mostly mahogany dust from my sander bag. A small amount goes a long way. Also sawdust from table saw. Any wood that isn't treated or impregnated with glue of any type works for me.

[farmbif]

borax as a flux for lead alloys? borax is the go to flux when brazing with copper/bronze alloy. ive even used it when gas welding with steel rod, but when brazing with silver alloys I'm not sure what's in the flux at welding supply store but I dont think it is borax or boric acid based , but I may be all wrong on this. I never heard of it being used for fluxing, getting the garbage out of, a molten pot of wheel weights. saw dust/wood chips just seem to work really well.

[imashooter2]

I've never seen any residue left from beeswax. Sawdust? Plenty.

And yet that is what’s left when beeswax burns. You just use a lot less wax so there is a lot less carbon.

[Hossfly]

I use what I’ve got at the time of need. I picked up a 5 gallon bucket while visiting a university maint wood working shop, from their dust collection system. Mixed up with everything imagine-able. Works great, also have used pine shavings that we use in the horse stalls. A little slower to char and light off, but with a little help with a bar b q lighter she burned just fine.

Now fluxing the bottom pour pot to cast boolits, I just use bee wax only, and light it for smoke problems.

[gwpercle]

I use Pencil Sharpener Shavings ... They are given away FREE of charge just for the asking .
Bring a zip lock bag , I've never been charged for them .
Pencils are made of Cedar and smell nice .
Gary

[bangerjim]

borax as a flux for lead alloys? borax is the go to flux when brazing with copper/bronze alloy. ive even used it when gas welding with steel rod, but when brazing with silver alloys I'm not sure what's in the flux at welding supply store but I dont think it is borax or boric acid based , but I may be all wrong on this. I never heard of it being used for fluxing, getting the garbage out of, a molten pot of wheel weights. saw dust/wood chips just seem to work really well.

When melting and casting brass (and some other copper/zinc alloys), most always use borax or a plain old broken coke bottle! The molten glass (yes, it melts at 1400-1600°F) forms a protective layer on the melt surface and prevents the Zn from burning off. (Zn boils off at 1,664°F and Cu melts at 1,981°F). Borax melts at a much lower temp than glass, but broken glass bottles are everywhere and free.

There is no carbon content to borax (B4O7Na2.10H2O), and carbon is what we are looking for in our relative cool melts compared to copper and brass! Therefore, we use carbon-based items, such as wood, to do the job of fluxing to clean the melt. NEVER plywood or treated wood dust!!!!!

And yes, there is an ever so small amount of carbon residue left from beeswax, although it is negligible. saw dust leaves behind much greater volumes of burnt "stuff" that can become inclusions in your castings..........if you are not careful.

Bottom line is...............use what works best for you over the years. I do!

banger

[Txcowboy52]

I use pine shavings and sawdust , pencil sharpener shavings that’s a great idea 👍!

[gwpercle]

I use pine shavings and sawdust , pencil sharpener shavings that’s a great idea 👍!

Thanks !
Not much in this world that you can still get for free ... but pencil sharpener shavings are one!
I use the shavings along with a little beeswax in my casting pot ... gives a perfect fluxing job.
Gary :drinks:

[PopcornSutton]

And yet that is what’s left when beeswax burns. You just use a lot less wax so there is a lot less carbon.

Everything that burns leaves residue. No dispute. But tell me if beeswax leaves less residue than wood chips or saw dust? You know the difference.

[imashooter2]

We are in violent agreement. :drinks::drinks:

You are welcome to keep using beeswax. It is an effective reductant. I prefer wood chips, and I will carry on as well.

[openbook]

I've heard that sawdust first then beeswax is even better. Tried it yesterday and it worked far better than just beeswax. Smooth, shiny wheel weight boolits in 9mm. Didn't have trouble from the plywood glue either. I'm guessing the glue isn't much worse than burning paint off the old wheel weights.

[mto7464]

old candles work well too. get a nice flame once it gets hot enough or I hit it with the lighter and some of them smell good too. I do cast outside. No need to ever buy anything to flux. even have used dried leaves that blow under my outside area. Plus the wax keeps the hinge on my pot well lubed (that is what I rub the candle on to get it to melt and go into the pot).

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve used everything thing from sawdust to straw to Quaker Oats. They all worked. Just make sure whatever you use is completely dry.

[Chaparral66]

Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb here. I've been in the electronics industry for 50 years. We only use flux to assist in getting a good solder joint. In our wave solder machines there is no flux used in the solder pot and even after years of operation the alloy remains almost exactly what was in the pot initially.

Fluxing a smelting pot or a casting pot to "keep the alloys mixed together" if a fallacy. I defy you to remove any one unique metal from the alloy by any means. In a post I read last night it was stated that "tin will separate out hence the need of fluxing" is an old wives tale.

I do not flux. I do gently "scrape" off the crap (dross) on the top of the molten alloy.

If you are using saw dust or chips it will not f-up your bottom pour pot. Now you say yes it will. Ok, think of this, when smelting range scrap, COWW, roofing flashing or any matter of raw material what floats to the surface... everything that is lighter than lead. So the zinc, steel, wood chips, dirt (sand from range berm) or any other lither than lead material is going to be part of the crap floating on the top of the molten lead or alloy.

So what we have been doing for the last ? years is BS! Prove to me that it makes a difference. I'm an engineer and I believe in hard data to show the truth. Has anyone done a DoE (Design of Experiment) to compare fluxed and unfluxed alloy to see if there is any difference?

Ok, now the heckling may begin.

[imashooter2]

What we call fluxing is reducing oxides back into the melt. The same way as what we call smelting isn’t really.

You choose to scrape off those oxides and throw them away. Enjoy!

[JohnH]

Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb here. I've been in the electronics industry for 50 years. We only use flux to assist in getting a good solder joint. In our wave solder machines there is no flux used in the solder pot and even after years of operation the alloy remains almost exactly what was in the pot initially.

Fluxing a smelting pot or a casting pot to "keep the alloys mixed together" if a fallacy. I defy you to remove any one unique metal from the alloy by any means. In a post I read last night it was stated that "tin will separate out hence the need of fluxing" is an old wives tale.

I do not flux. I do gently "scrape" off the crap (dross) on the top of the molten alloy.

If you are using saw dust or chips it will not f-up your bottom pour pot. Now you say yes it will. Ok, think of this, when smelting range scrap, COWW, roofing flashing or any matter of raw material what floats to the surface... everything that is lighter than lead. So the zinc, steel, wood chips, dirt (sand from range berm) or any other lither than lead material is going to be part of the crap floating on the top of the molten lead or alloy.

So what we have been doing for the last ? years is BS! Prove to me that it makes a difference. I'm an engineer and I believe in hard data to show the truth. Has anyone done a DoE (Design of Experiment) to compare fluxed and unfluxed alloy to see if there is any difference?

Ok, now the heckling may begin.

Dennis Marshall agrees on the separation thing. His knowledge on the subject can be found in Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook #3

[jeepyj]

Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb here. I've been in the electronics industry for 50 years. We only use flux to assist in getting a good solder joint. In our wave solder machines there is no flux used in the solder pot and even after years of operation the alloy remains almost exactly what was in the pot initially.

Fluxing a smelting pot or a casting pot to "keep the alloys mixed together" if a fallacy. I defy you to remove any one unique metal from the alloy by any means. In a post I read last night it was stated that "tin will separate out hence the need of fluxing" is an old wives tale.

I do not flux. I do gently "scrape" off the crap (dross) on the top of the molten alloy.

If you are using saw dust or chips it will not f-up your bottom pour pot. Now you say yes it will. Ok, think of this, when smelting range scrap, COWW, roofing flashing or any matter of raw material what floats to the surface... everything that is lighter than lead. So the zinc, steel, wood chips, dirt (sand from range berm) or any other lither than lead material is going to be part of the crap floating on the top of the molten lead or alloy.

So what we have been doing for the last ? years is BS! Prove to me that it makes a difference. I'm an engineer and I believe in hard data to show the truth. Has anyone done a DoE (Design of Experiment) to compare fluxed and unfluxed alloy to see if there is any difference?

Ok, now the heckling may begin.

This is getting interesting. Not sure is I completely agree but I know I don't completely disagree. Continuing to follow.

[bangerjim]

The only difference I see in fluxed and unfluxed is the unfluxed ingots can (not always) have lots of inclusions of garbage in it. Cut/slice some ingots apart and you will find garbage in the unfluxed ones. It appears to be the foam & crud on top of the melt. That is why when I re-melt dirty old carp, I 3x flux with wood and then finish off with bees wax.

And I ALWAYS use bees wax as a "reducer" for the Sn during casting sessions to keep the Sn in the alloy.

The term "flux" as we use it on here is totally different than the term "flux" used to solder copper or metals together and to get the bonding materials to stick to each surface, as in sweating copper plumbing or soldering connections the electronics industry.

Proof enough for you.......from one engineer to another?????????????????


banger :castmine: