Odd idea. 230 volt electric heating/lead melting pot?

[JeepsAndGuns]

With the issues I am having with my turkey fryer, and finding out yesterday my propane tank is expired and I will have to get re checked (no idea how much that will cost) before I can have it re filled, I started thinking about alternatives.
I have a lee 20 pound electric led pot I use when I cast. It's 110 volt, works great, reliable, and easy. No flame to blow out, no fuel to run out, just easy and simple.

SO, I got thinking. Right next to the door of my shop/building, I have a 230 volt outlet I use for my 230 mig welder, and 80 gallon 5hp air compressor.
The gears started turning and I got wondering. With as well as the small 110 volt pot works, and with 230 volts on tap, is there, or could you make, some type of electric heating element (or something) that could be used along the same lines as the turkey fryer for melting/processing larger quantities of lead?
Could you use some eyes from a old stove (since they are all 230 volt), or even the elements from the oven part itself? How stiff are those elements? Could they be re bent into different shapes without damaging them? If you found a old cheap stove, could you salvage the elements and knobs out of it for heat control?
Or would this be a bad idea?

[Bobbers]

As far as the propane tank issue if it is a 20 pound tank. I always have my tanks filled but any time my tank expires, I just go to Lowe's (or any other place that swaps them out) and do an exchange. They never check. The propane costs more but way less then have it rechecked.
As far as 230 volt melting pot build not sure, but will watch to see what other say.

[Dusty Bannister]

Lee makes a 220 casting furnace so it is not a matter of "if" but "how" and sourcing the materials. With propane, you can just cover it up to keep the weather off. With 220, you probably have to store inside and with more care. You are working on concrete with metal ladles, the level of the safety factor is raised a good bit.

[HATCH]

Research heating bands

Magma uses heating bands on their Master Caster and their Master Pot.
It isn't cheap but it does work pretty well.

You can get a bendable heating element that is rated 2250 watts for about $100 from Mcmaster-Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/bendable-heat-elements/versa-mount-bend-and-stay-heaters-for-ducts-ovens-and-dryers-7/

Electric is the way to go as you can easily control the temp using a PID controller.
Yes, I know you can do the same thing with propane but it requires a lot more work to get it set up.

[jsizemore]

New elements do have some bend to them. It's like bending metal tubing. You can't bend tight turns without compromising the outer jacket and interior insulation. I've made a couple barrel/action baking ovens using straight stock elements and universal oven control and now PID/thermocouple for the control circuit. You'll need to use components that will handle 1100 degF at least. The same stuff that is used for a self cleaning oven circuit. Or a ceramic/heat treating kiln.

I use a propane tukey fryer with a water heater sheetmetal jacket and top for a windshield/heat management. I can melt my stuff anywhere my pickup can go. turkey cooker 2-3 feet from my dropped tailgate and a 4'x4' piece of 1/2" plywood on the tailgate/bed for my table and a whole mess of lightly rusted muffin tins for molds. In 1 hour I've got an overflowing 5 gal. bucket of former WW's reduced to 150lbs of 2lb. ingots ANYWHERE. That electric melting setup couldn't keep pace.

[centershot]

Yes, you can do it with an electric melt pot, but, at what cost? It seems to me that buying a new turkey fryer (if you had to) and exchanging your outdated tank would still be less money than going electric. I'm with jsizemore, having the portability of a propane-powered operation is handy, I can smelt anywhere, and do! Especially when they clean the backstop at our club's indoor range! Smelt it there and go home with clean ingots! :bigsmyl2:

[Winger Ed.]

With the other options available- and if you value your time as being worth something over nine cents an hour:
it sounds like you're trying to figure out how to spend a dollar in order to save a dime.

If you plan to use it a whole bunch-- powering the electric pot is noticeably cheaper.
But for most, it isn't worth the equipment expense or storage hassle to buy and set one up.

[Stewbaby]

As stated, simply swap the tank at a convenience store or hardware that has exchange. If you only have one bottle, buy another while your at it…a spare is always great to have. I keep almost 10 around as they are on my camper, griddle, fish cooker, one grill and my generator will also run off them.

The large electric pot is viable but probably not justified and a whole lot more to buy or even build. We use such MI cable to heat heavy bottoms/asphalt lines at our refinery.

[osage]

I've never had anyone check a tank I swapped for a filled one. Three places I've had my tanks filled never checked either. Seems like an easier solution than a higher voltage pot.

[jsizemore]

The exchange tanks I've checked (cuz my tanks needed a hydro test) only had between 14 and 16 lbs of propane. Where I get mine filled gives me 20lbs of propane.

[PBaholic]

With the issues I am having with my turkey fryer, and finding out yesterday my propane tank is expired and I will have to get re checked (no idea how much that will cost) before I can have it re filled, I started thinking about alternatives. I have a lee 20 pound electric led pot I use when I cast. It's 110 volt, works great, reliable, and easy. No flame to blow out, no fuel to run out, just easy and simple.

With as well as the small 110 volt pot works, and with 230 volts on tap, is there, or could you make, some type of electric heating element (or something) that could be used along the same lines as the turkey fryer for melting/processing larger quantities of lead?
Could you use some eyes from a old stove (since they are all 230 volt), or even the elements from the oven part itself? How stiff are those elements? Could they be re bent into different shapes without damaging them? If you found a old cheap stove, could you salvage the elements and knobs out of it for heat control?
Or would this be a bad idea?

I've never tried to bend the 3/8" thick elements, but if you have the thin wire ones, they bend just fine. As for the electronics, you will need to find an old stove where the controls themselves do all the adjusting of the elements. Anything made in the last 20 years will have a PCB in the stove for control. Although you could adapt it to do what you want, you would need to utilize the entire PCB in your design. It's still can be done, just take out everything from inside the stove, wires and all and cut out what you don't need.

I use a 110V Hot Plate and a stainless steel dutch oven for much of my smelting, although I'm doing this inside my shed with a fume hood. The 110V Hot Plate takes a while to get everything hot, but then I can control it much easier. If I'm doing wheel weights, the zinc ones float to the top, since I'm not getting near the temp where they will melt.

I just stick everything in the pot, cover it with a lid, and go do something else.

The Hot Plate sits right next to my Lee 20# pot, and I use it to bring my molds up to temp for pouring. I use the 6 hole 230 grain 45 molds, and pre-heat 2 of them when I pour. When I'm actually pouring, I turn off the Hot Plate, and switch between the 2 molds every other pour. This gives them a chance to cool off, and allows me to pour much faster.

[Rickf1985]

I saw a video of just what you are talking about somewhere. A guy made an electric melter from stove parts and some huge relays to control the burner heat. No idea where I saw it but I am guessing if you search You tube for electric lead smelters or home made electric smelters you might come up with something. But like others have said it will be ten times cheaper both in building and also running a propane setup.

[Finster101]

Seems like going to a lot of trouble for a few extra bucks on an exchange tank that usually you can get refilled anywhere. I've done it several times as some of mine go out of date. Spending a dollar to save a dime just don't make much sense to me.

[bangerjim]

Just use the return-for-full thing at Lowe's or other big boxes. To get a tank re-certified will cost you way more than you want to spend. That is why when I go to the city recycling/dump area, there probably 100-125 old 20 ponders sitting on the dock to be sold as scrap steel.

I have a cute little 5# cylinder that is older than dirt and I just fill it off the new fresh ones I get. The little one is handy for various thing I do. Just turn the new one upside down and above the one to be filled, connect with short copper/rubber line with proper fittings, and turn both valves on. Liquid will easily flow from the new one into the empty one. Just do not overfill. Pressures will equalize and you are done.

But do not sweat the slight cost increase in gas when using the swapping thing at the stores.

As said "nothing in this live is free", even scrounged COWW's into ingots!!!!!!!!!!

[country gent]

I think McMaster Carr as stocks wage pots in various sizes and voltage, even single and 2 phase units

[JeepsAndGuns]

Research heating bands

Magma uses heating bands on their Master Caster and their Master Pot.
It isn't cheap but it does work pretty well.

You can get a bendable heating element that is rated 2250 watts for about $100 from Mcmaster-Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/bendable-heat-elements/versa-mount-bend-and-stay-heaters-for-ducts-ovens-and-dryers-7/

Electric is the way to go as you can easily control the temp using a PID controller.
Yes, I know you can do the same thing with propane but it requires a lot more work to get it set up.

Thanks for the link. That is exactly what I was looking for. Something to keep in mind if I do not find any old stoves.

I was wanting this thread to be about electric options, not a "why not just use propane" thread. I already have a thread going on trying to figure out my turkey fryer issues. I wanted this one to be separate. But to answer some peoples questions. My tank is not the regular grille/exchange size tank. Doing some looking online, it appears my tank is a 30 gallon tank. I'm sure I could turn it in, but why would I turn in a large tank and get a smaller one in return.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I've never tried to bend the 3/8" thick elements, but if you have the thin wire ones, they bend just fine. As for the electronics, you will need to find an old stove where the controls themselves do all the adjusting of the elements. Anything made in the last 20 years will have a PCB in the stove for control. Although you could adapt it to do what you want, you would need to utilize the entire PCB in your design. It's still can be done, just take out everything from inside the stove, wires and all and cut out what you don't need.


That was my thought, simply try and find a old manual stove and just gut it for the controls and all.
I have heard of people replacing perfectly good stoves because they wanted one of the newer fancy ones with electronic controls.
I like my 25 year old all manual adjust stove. There is so very little to go wrong. It is basically what I would look for.

[lightman]

A large electric smelting pot would be nice. I've played with the idea of trying a pottery kiln.

[jsizemore]

Most stoves are designed around 450degF max. The large surface burner coils are capable of producing enough heat to melt lead. The wire and controls aren't. Glass insulated nickled wire will handle the the temp plus Hi-temp connectors. The circuit of a self cleaning oven has that stuff. I'd use a PID with solid state relay for control. The stuff in the range/oven doesn't have that good a control for self cleaning. It's only designed to run high and burn up the spillage in the oven. Insulation from the range/oven works great in the furnace.

You could make a cylindrical pot and put a band heater with enough heat potential to melt lead. Use the right wire, connectors and controls and your set.

If your only melting 20-30 lbs of scrap lead at a time in a sauce pan or skillet you could use a small surface burner coil with the right parts.

Make sure you make a really good ground connection.

Good Luck with your build.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Most stoves are designed around 450degF max. The large surface burner coils are capable of producing enough heat to melt lead. The wire and controls aren't. Glass insulated nickled wire will handle the the temp plus Hi-temp connectors. The circuit of a self cleaning oven has that stuff. I'd use a PID with solid state relay for control. The stuff in the range/oven doesn't have that good a control for self cleaning. It's only designed to run high and burn up the spillage in the oven. Insulation from the range/oven works great in the furnace.

You could make a cylindrical pot and put a band heater with enough heat potential to melt lead. Use the right wire, connectors and controls and your set.

If your only melting 20-30 lbs of scrap lead at a time in a sauce pan or skillet you could use a small surface burner coil with the right parts.

Make sure you make a really good ground connection.

Good Luck with your build.

Thanks for the tips.
It would be mainly for larger batches of lead. Melting down scrap and making ingots. I will use my lee 110v pot when I do actual casting.
I have not committed to building this yet, as it is mainly a brainstorming thread and looking at options of what could be done. It also would depend on finding the right parts for the right price.
I checked my local craigslist and struck out. I will still keep my eye open.

[Rickf1985]

Thanks for the tips.
It would be mainly for larger batches of lead. Melting down scrap and making ingots. I will use my lee 110v pot when I do actual casting.
I have not committed to building this yet, as it is mainly a brainstorming thread and looking at options of what could be done. It also would depend on finding the right parts for the right price.
I checked my local craigslist and struck out. I will still keep my eye open.

I will try to locate that thread I mentioned about the guy building an electric setup. He ended up having to use three large burners in a cluster and a HUGE relay to power them since the amperage was so high. Note the amperage part as you will probably need 50-100 amps to power this setup. If you have access to 3 phase power that is not an issue but standard household current will be pushing it. I know there was a LOT of fabrication, a LOT of insulation and a WHOLE LOT of wiring.

[454PB]

How about this? https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?10127-1-Lead-Smelter&highlight=

I still use this setup for rendering lead, it has melted more than 1000 pounds with no problems. It's crude, but gives you a place to start and costs a couple of dollars.

[454PB]

I will try to locate that thread I mentioned about the guy building an electric setup. He ended up having to use three large burners in a cluster and a HUGE relay to power them since the amperage was so high. Note the amperage part as you will probably need 50-100 amps to power this setup. If you have access to 3 phase power that is not an issue but standard household current will be pushing it. I know there was a LOT of fabrication, a LOT of insulation and a WHOLE LOT of wiring.

This is probably the one you refer to:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?5126-Diary-of-a-Casting-Pot-Construction

[Plate plinker]

+1 on heating bands. Buy chunk of pipe and weld a base on it add a band and bingo you have a pot. That’s what I did.

[Rickf1985]

Yep, that is the one.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Thanks for the links. That is exactly what I had in mind. I have to set aside some time to read through them.

[heebs]

I have a magma cast master 90 lb pot. I use it for everything. I clean all my wheelweights, range scrap, lino/mono, and make 85 lb lots for shotmaking. Anything bulk. After doing the "dirty jobs", I empty, unplug, let cool and then clean out remnant lead, dirt etc. with a vacuum and air hose. Then refill and can hand cast, bottom pour or use as a holding pot for my shotmaker. All with 220volt. And all temperature controlled. No tanks, burners, pouring accidents. For me well worth the investment. When done, all I have is a pot to put away.

[jsizemore]

Here's a calculator you can use to figure heat/time/losses in your potential setup:

https://www.watlow.com/resources-and-support/engineering-tools/wattage-calculator

6" burner is around 1500 watts and 8" is 2100. Burners that are made to plug in have an eyelet at the end and you can use a #10 steel machine screw, washers and nut to make your connection.