Small .357 revolver with a full length ejector?

[ddixie884]

Anyone know of a modern small 5 or 6 shot revolver with an ejector rod that has a full length stroke to clear .357 Mag cases for a quick reload? My 3" M-65 S&W is the smallest I have as even my 3" Sp101 is short. The new Colt King Cobras, S&W J-frames and Kimber K 6s don't. LCRs and Taurus small frames do not. :-( That is why I am so committed to finding .38spl snub loads that rival light .357 loadings from a snub. Meanwhile if I have to settle for .38spl loads I don't want to carry a 23oz .357 for SD. [smilie=b:

Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanx in advance............

[tazman]

Think about the necessary dimensions to accomplish your wish.
357mag cases are nearly 1.3 inches long. That requires at least that much ejector rod in front of the crane.
Most current design revolvers use a latch on the front of the ejector rod to help align the cylinder in front. Then you have the necessary width of the crane in front of the cylinder to add in. You also have any necessary clearances from the front of the cylinder to the crane. All of these design elements add up and are going to require a 3 inch barrel to support a full length ejector rod.
You would need a design that, at the very least, discarded the support for the front of the ejector rod and offered no protection for that rod. The front of the cylinder would need to latch in a different manner, probably using the crane.
I seem to remember some snubbies being made that way but they were not magnums.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Tazman is right, in that it is a design dimensional problem. One possibility, but I do not have one to check it out, would be the old Dan Wesson .357 Mags that could be obtained in a Pistol Pack with various length interchangeable barrels. It stands to reason that if the empties would clear for the 6" barrel they'd do so for the 2 1/2" barrel, as you'd be utilizing the same cylinder and frame. But, the large frame would remain and be less concealable.

You're really on the right track using hotter .38 Spec. loads, but it's an area where you have to exercise caution. You'd certainly want to develop them in a +P rated frame. In that case, why not settle for +P .38 Spec. ammo?

DG

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Another thought that comes to mind is ejection technique. Many shooters have found that when reloading it's advisable to hold the revolver with open cylinder in the off hand with the muzzle oriented skyward and to forcefully hit the end of the ejector rod with the strong hand. This will eject the empties downward and out of the handgun, assuming nicely polished chambers helped by nickel-plated brass. This technique works just about 100% with my 2 1/2" S&W Mod. 19. Then one simply rotates the muzzle forward and it's ready for insertion of a speed loader's contents.

DG

[Jim22]

Ruger SP101 ejects loadeed rounds completely. I have the 3" barrel model. The 2" model may not.

Jim

[NSB]

Sounds like a carry gun. I really like revolvers and I have an SP101. As others are pointing out, there are dimensional problems to making what you want. If you can’t get the job done with five or six shots, get a semi-auto. They hold more and reload a lot faster. I’ve shot competition with revolvers and with practice (and a clean gun) you can tip the gun barrel upwards while spanking the ejector rod and dump your empties pretty quickly.

[Texas by God]

Another thought that comes to mind is ejection technique. Many shooters have found that when reloading it's advisable to hold the revolver with open cylinder in the off hand with the muzzle oriented skyward and to forcefully hit the end of the ejector rod with the strong hand. This will eject the empties downward and out of the handgun, assuming nicely polished chambers helped by nickel-plated brass. This technique works just about 100% with my 2 1/2" S&W Mod. 19. Then one simply rotates the muzzle forward and it's ready for insertion of a speed loader's contents.

DGNailed it. Best to do it that way with single actions, too.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[Outpost75]

"Spank the baby" technique as described above is the answer.

[ddixie884]

The problem is that the manufacturing companies want to use the same ejector rod for their 3" guns as their 2" and my 3" SP101 must be defective as my ejector rod is shorter than a .38spl case. The full length ejector rod is one reason the 3" M-65 and M-13s are so popular. I was waiting eagerly for the King Cobra 3" til I saw a picture of one.

[RJM52]

S&W 60-10 (pre-IL) or the current 60-15 is a 3" J-frame .357 Magnum... A good rap on the ejector rod will usually clear the cylinder...

That said...why are you worried... You can go ahead and look, as I have for 30+ years, but won't find any reloads during a civilian gunfight...

As to a low end .357 Magnum...it is called a .38-44... Just bought two boxes of Buffalo Bore 158s...one HP and one Solid. 6.0 grains of Unique with a 158 hardcast or LHP will run just about the same velocity...

Bob

[megasupermagnum]

I used to wonder about this, but not just small revolvers. Large revolvers too, I have never seen one that will fully push out a 357 magnum case the full 1.29". None of them do it. I asked a Ruger tech about this when I was discussing my LCR. The reason they don't go farther is because it increases the risk of a bent ejector, and worse yet, getting a case stuck under it. After I heard that, the lightbulb went right on. They aren't shorter in the small guns for design limitations. They are shorter because they are guns meant for defensive use, so they lean more towards reliability, than ease of use at the range.

[Daekar]

This is something which has caused me significant headache with my S&W Mod. 60. It's got a 3" barrel and I really like it, but the Altamont grips I put on it (which I am absolutely keeping) don't have quite the appropriate clearance on them to extract a 357 case... which means case extraction involves removing them a few at a time as I can rotate the cylinder. Very frustrating for an otherwise-excellent gun.

It never occurred to me to trim brass to 38spl length to ease the problem. I don't shoot full-power loads in the gun, so the loss of capacity isn't really that much of an issue.

I probably need to look at the possibility of simply sanding a relief cut in the left grip but I'm unsure about how to correct the inevitable mismatch in finish color if I have to re-stain part of it.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

This is something which has caused me significant headache with my S&W Mod. 60. It's got a 3" barrel and I really like it, but the Altamont grips I put on it (which I am absolutely keeping) don't have quite the appropriate clearance on them to extract a 357 case... which means case extraction involves removing them a few at a time as I can rotate the cylinder. Very frustrating for an otherwise-excellent gun.

It never occurred to me to trim brass to 38spl length to ease the problem. I don't shoot full-power loads in the gun, so the loss of capacity isn't really that much of an issue.

I probably need to look at the possibility of simply sanding a relief cut in the left grip but I'm unsure about how to correct the inevitable mismatch in finish color if I have to re-stain part of it.

If you are not going to modify your grips to accommodate speed loading/a speed loader, then you are going to be stuck at that junction of reloading your revolver speedily. Nothing more can be done for your technique.

That being said, the "spank the baby" technique works, takes practice to get done correctly, and should be used by anyone worried about SD use of their revolver. I cannot say if your grips are open enough to take a speed loader, but the spanking technique should allow for quick ejection of empty cases in almost all revolvers....unless the grip is totally our of proportion for a quick reload.

Trimming brass is much more labor intensive than learning the new ejection technique.

You can test stain the inside of the grip to find a suitable match for color. Small spots of course, and go from there. If looks outweigh your desire to use the tool, find a different carry tool and modify that one. Save your beauty for the safe then.


I look at carry guns as tools, nothing much more. They may look good, but use and function come first. Just like anything I use at work, just different tools for different purposes. And for the record, there isn't much of anything at work that looks great, just some tools that work better than others... :) If my personal tools don't do what they need to, they get modified, changed out for a different tool, or new techniques learned to make them work better/best.

[Larry Gibson]

With my 2 1/2" M9 "Spank the baby" technique takes 3 -4 times as long to reload as does the proper technique with speed loaders (I prefer the HKS). For the range, plinking or even hunting that means little. However, in an SD or LEO situation it can mean your life. As an LEO I always carried 38 SPL +P (Winchester) in my M19 snubby and as an advanced LEO firearms instructor I always recommended others do the same. Now, as a civilian, I still keep the 38 SPL +P in it for SD. I also have some 38 SPL +P+P loads for special occasions when I carry it hunting. Those have a 358156, cast of 30-1 alloy and HP'd, loaded over Blue Dot, seated out to the second crimp groove. They run 1150 fps out of the 2 1/2" barreled M19.

[charlie b]

The only time I had any issues with my SP101 was when I got lazy ejecting cases. FWIW, that has happened to me with full size .357's of various types before too. I'd also support the mfg claim about longer ejectors and reliability. If the muzzle is pointed down when trying to eject you can get rims stuck between the ejector and cylinder.

As mentioned, the off hand hold of the pistol, point muzzle up, and run the ejector. On some loads I've had the cases fall out even without the ejector.

This is also a good time to test your carry ammo to make sure it does eject cleanly. If cases are sticking don't use that load for carry :)

And, yes, some grips are not compatible with speed loaders. The Colt Target grips were like that.

I wonder if some of this is why competitors are moving to 9mm with clips. Short round, large surface for ejector, little chance of hanging up. Maybe consider rimless cartridge in the snubby.

Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk

[Dave T]

I recommend you try Buffalo Bore's "Heavy 38 Special +P 158g SWCHP-GC". They are the low-end 357 Mag performance you are looking for in a 38 Special case.

Interestingly that BB round almost perfectly duplicates the old 1930 vintage S&W 38-44 cartridge, which was rated as a 158g bullet at 1125 fps. I have duplicated that performance in my S&W Heavy Duty N-frame, with 2400 powder, but I'm not going to list the load here as it is way over any loading manual's +P 38 Special charges.

Dave

[Bigslug]

The traditional answer to the fast reload is don't miss in the first place.;-)

Three inches of barrel is indeed the magic number, and it had a bit of a classic gunfighter following back in the day for that very reason - the FBI's Model 13 Smith probably being the most famous example; George Patton's 3.5" M27 being another.

Ejecting with the thumb of the left hand made sense when the world was running 4" and 6" duty revolvers, and the 3" let a more tactically inclined plainclothes guy retain that technique.

Anymore, snubbies are the rule, and I've taken to run "spank the baby" on everything as a result. My version is to push the cylinder open with the first two fingers of the left hand; the thumb being on the other side of the frame. This allows me to grip the cylinder so that all of my meaty bits are below the front of the crane, so my "spank" doesn't get blocked by it. Hold the gun using that grip with the muzzle pointed skyward, smack the rod with your right hand; keep the right hand sweeping downward to pull out any remaining clingers, and continue that downward motion toward your speedloader, speed strips, or whatever. Meanwhile, the left hand then points the muzzle at the deck to receive the new ammo.

In the Jerry Miculek sense of the word, it's marginally slower than thumbing out the empties because the right hand can leave the gun and head for the reloads just a little bit sooner, but it can still be accomplished very quickly. I tend to prefer it anyway because the right hand stays put to assist in clearing any problems BEFORE it becomes encumbered with fresh ammo.

Keeping the chambers clean and running nickel cased ammo for your "for real" loads wouldn't hurt either.