Dutchman
01-09-2022, 02:09 AM
https://images34.fotki.com/v1633/photos/2/28344/377112/008x-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/oberndorf_frankenswede/008x.html)
The following texts were posted in the Swedish military firearms forum @ Gunboards by myself.
In Mattson's book, Handvapnen Och Deras Vård (small arms and their care) there is a paragraph that mentions the powder used in the Lös Patron (wooden bullet blanks).
"Till laddningen användes ett mera brisant krut än vid den skarpa ammunitionen, benämnt gevärsexerciskrut I." (rifle exercise powder #1)
Google translate: used to charge a more brisant gunpowder than by live ammunition, rifle drill called gunpowder I.
Google translate couldn't translate brisant. So I went looking and the English equivalent is brisance. But god help you if you wanted to define brisance! Since I graduated high school and made it through college english I knew brisant was the adjective describing the noun, krut. This is what you mostly get: Brisance is the shattering capability of an explosive.
Well... that doesn't tell me anything but this does: Brisance is a measure of the rapidity with which an explosive develops its maximum pressure.
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Brisance.html
Why couldn't they just say it was a FAST powder? That is apparently all it's saying. Gevärexercisekrut 1 is a faster powder than regular live ammunition, i.e. patron m/41. This much we have known since AndersJ supplied the original translation to Dana Jones for Crown Jewels and he is former sergeant in the Swedish army.
For the powder description of kammerpatron m/12: krutet är av samma slag, som användes i de lösa påtronerna eller gevärexercisekrut 1.
gunpowder is of the same type used in the blank cartridges or rifle drill gunpowder 1.
Mattson's book was published in 1916 and was a standard textbook used in Swedish officer training/schooling. I have a copy in possession.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
Jul 12, 2013
One of our forum visitors made mention of this a couple times but there were no comments to his suggestion. "Xxxxx" is someone I know personally and one of his French 49/56 rifles was purchased from me.
When the French MAS 49/56 rifles and MAS36 rifles were imported there was scant ammo. What military 7.5x54 ammo there was cost more than most of us cheap bast*rds wanted to pay. This was about the same time the m/12 Kammerpatron ammo was $60 a case of 1,400 from Century for $60 and free shipping.
Someone, who I don't know, first found that you could simply open up the neck of the 6.5x55 to .30 caliber and seat a bullet and walla!! You had a functional 7.5x54 MAS cartridge. Standard rifle powders were used. At the time I had the MAS 49/56 I think I was using IMR3031 because that's what I had.
The Lee dies for 7.5x54 French had an unusual long tapered expander plug combination decapping rod. It worked perfectly to open up the case neck with very few splits.
I started loads that were below the operating threshold for the MAS 49/56 but I wanted to take the prudent approach and creep up to get positive bolt function, extraction and decent accuracy. I did achieve that but kinda burned out on the whole French rifle aspect of it and sold the rifle and accessory package. At the time they were a very cool curio-relic rifle at a nice price for what you got. While I heard the MAS36 was capable of stellar accuracy I could never bring myself to buy one let alone touch one as they are one of the world's most ugly guns. Truly one of the Lee sisters: Beastly, Homely and Ugly. At the beginning of the import cycle the MAS36 were priced down to a low of I think $35 for a good used one.
With the current glut of the m/14 Los Patron ammo I thought this aspect of it deserved a little more attention.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
6.5mm Lös patron m/94. (blank m/94)(older version of m/14)
Uses reloaded cases. The bullet is a hollow wooden one which disintegrates
after it leaves the barrel. A very fast powder called "Gevärsexerciskrut 1
is used. The cartridges are packed in boxes containing 10rounds on
strippers. The boxes have have green labels. The boxes (without linen
straps) are packed in green wooden cases m/68. The cases are not steel lined
and the lids are fastened with screws.
6.5mm Kammarpatron m/12 (gallery practice round m/12).
Uses reloaded cases, no crimping of the bullet. A tight fit is possible due
to the fact that the bullet is slightly oversized compared to the case neck.
The bullet is made of wood and has a cupro-nickel jacket. The muzzle vel. is
300meters /sec. Due to it's limited mass and velocity the bullet is harmless
over 200 meters range. The powder is of the same type used in the blanks.
The cartridges are made at Marieberg. The cartridges(without strippers) are
packed in paper boxes containing 100rds. The boxes have blue labels. The
boxes, are packed 27 in cartridge case m/05. The case are steel lined and
with a soldered lid. The wooden lid is attached with screws.
https://images20.fotki.com/v1672/photos/2/28344/377112/010-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/oberndorf_frankenswede/010.html)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
The Swedish military designation is: Gevärsexerciskrut 1 (rifle practice powder 1).
There have been numerous threads in this forum on this powder if you care to search.
It is a fast pistol powder. It is NOT blank powder as used in USGI blanks. I've used it for years in
cast bullet rifle loads as it is very close to Unique in burn rate. Perhaps very slightly faster.
The date of manufacture of the gallery powder used in the below loads was 1963. The m/14 Lös patroner
(wood tip) and m/12 Kammarpatron (gallery practice) use the same powder type mentioned above.
The notation on this target reads:
50 yd
1891 (Argentine Mauser, 7.65x53)
2-7x32
13.2 (gr) Swede GP (gallery powder)
200 gr
311299 (Lyman mold)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
It's a fast pistol powder. You use it in applications calling for fast pistol powder.
There is no data. Use at your own risk.
Yes, many people have used the powder to load pistol ammunition, myself included. And cast bullet loads in bottleneck rifle cases.
Your questions are the main reason we've not historically advertised this aspect of m/12 and m/14 alternative usage. It's word-of-mouth. You have to figure out your own uses without pointing fingers at anyone else as to what caused your firearm to blow up. The risk is yours. Your actions are your responsibility. I refuse to accept responsibility for your actions. Questions as to load levels will not be answered.
[/end]
Dutch
https://images20.fotki.com/v1672/photos/2/28344/377112/004xx1-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/oberndorf_frankenswede/004xx.html)
The following texts were posted in the Swedish military firearms forum @ Gunboards by myself.
In Mattson's book, Handvapnen Och Deras Vård (small arms and their care) there is a paragraph that mentions the powder used in the Lös Patron (wooden bullet blanks).
"Till laddningen användes ett mera brisant krut än vid den skarpa ammunitionen, benämnt gevärsexerciskrut I." (rifle exercise powder #1)
Google translate: used to charge a more brisant gunpowder than by live ammunition, rifle drill called gunpowder I.
Google translate couldn't translate brisant. So I went looking and the English equivalent is brisance. But god help you if you wanted to define brisance! Since I graduated high school and made it through college english I knew brisant was the adjective describing the noun, krut. This is what you mostly get: Brisance is the shattering capability of an explosive.
Well... that doesn't tell me anything but this does: Brisance is a measure of the rapidity with which an explosive develops its maximum pressure.
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Brisance.html
Why couldn't they just say it was a FAST powder? That is apparently all it's saying. Gevärexercisekrut 1 is a faster powder than regular live ammunition, i.e. patron m/41. This much we have known since AndersJ supplied the original translation to Dana Jones for Crown Jewels and he is former sergeant in the Swedish army.
For the powder description of kammerpatron m/12: krutet är av samma slag, som användes i de lösa påtronerna eller gevärexercisekrut 1.
gunpowder is of the same type used in the blank cartridges or rifle drill gunpowder 1.
Mattson's book was published in 1916 and was a standard textbook used in Swedish officer training/schooling. I have a copy in possession.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
Jul 12, 2013
One of our forum visitors made mention of this a couple times but there were no comments to his suggestion. "Xxxxx" is someone I know personally and one of his French 49/56 rifles was purchased from me.
When the French MAS 49/56 rifles and MAS36 rifles were imported there was scant ammo. What military 7.5x54 ammo there was cost more than most of us cheap bast*rds wanted to pay. This was about the same time the m/12 Kammerpatron ammo was $60 a case of 1,400 from Century for $60 and free shipping.
Someone, who I don't know, first found that you could simply open up the neck of the 6.5x55 to .30 caliber and seat a bullet and walla!! You had a functional 7.5x54 MAS cartridge. Standard rifle powders were used. At the time I had the MAS 49/56 I think I was using IMR3031 because that's what I had.
The Lee dies for 7.5x54 French had an unusual long tapered expander plug combination decapping rod. It worked perfectly to open up the case neck with very few splits.
I started loads that were below the operating threshold for the MAS 49/56 but I wanted to take the prudent approach and creep up to get positive bolt function, extraction and decent accuracy. I did achieve that but kinda burned out on the whole French rifle aspect of it and sold the rifle and accessory package. At the time they were a very cool curio-relic rifle at a nice price for what you got. While I heard the MAS36 was capable of stellar accuracy I could never bring myself to buy one let alone touch one as they are one of the world's most ugly guns. Truly one of the Lee sisters: Beastly, Homely and Ugly. At the beginning of the import cycle the MAS36 were priced down to a low of I think $35 for a good used one.
With the current glut of the m/14 Los Patron ammo I thought this aspect of it deserved a little more attention.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~
6.5mm Lös patron m/94. (blank m/94)(older version of m/14)
Uses reloaded cases. The bullet is a hollow wooden one which disintegrates
after it leaves the barrel. A very fast powder called "Gevärsexerciskrut 1
is used. The cartridges are packed in boxes containing 10rounds on
strippers. The boxes have have green labels. The boxes (without linen
straps) are packed in green wooden cases m/68. The cases are not steel lined
and the lids are fastened with screws.
6.5mm Kammarpatron m/12 (gallery practice round m/12).
Uses reloaded cases, no crimping of the bullet. A tight fit is possible due
to the fact that the bullet is slightly oversized compared to the case neck.
The bullet is made of wood and has a cupro-nickel jacket. The muzzle vel. is
300meters /sec. Due to it's limited mass and velocity the bullet is harmless
over 200 meters range. The powder is of the same type used in the blanks.
The cartridges are made at Marieberg. The cartridges(without strippers) are
packed in paper boxes containing 100rds. The boxes have blue labels. The
boxes, are packed 27 in cartridge case m/05. The case are steel lined and
with a soldered lid. The wooden lid is attached with screws.
https://images20.fotki.com/v1672/photos/2/28344/377112/010-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/oberndorf_frankenswede/010.html)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
The Swedish military designation is: Gevärsexerciskrut 1 (rifle practice powder 1).
There have been numerous threads in this forum on this powder if you care to search.
It is a fast pistol powder. It is NOT blank powder as used in USGI blanks. I've used it for years in
cast bullet rifle loads as it is very close to Unique in burn rate. Perhaps very slightly faster.
The date of manufacture of the gallery powder used in the below loads was 1963. The m/14 Lös patroner
(wood tip) and m/12 Kammarpatron (gallery practice) use the same powder type mentioned above.
The notation on this target reads:
50 yd
1891 (Argentine Mauser, 7.65x53)
2-7x32
13.2 (gr) Swede GP (gallery powder)
200 gr
311299 (Lyman mold)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
It's a fast pistol powder. You use it in applications calling for fast pistol powder.
There is no data. Use at your own risk.
Yes, many people have used the powder to load pistol ammunition, myself included. And cast bullet loads in bottleneck rifle cases.
Your questions are the main reason we've not historically advertised this aspect of m/12 and m/14 alternative usage. It's word-of-mouth. You have to figure out your own uses without pointing fingers at anyone else as to what caused your firearm to blow up. The risk is yours. Your actions are your responsibility. I refuse to accept responsibility for your actions. Questions as to load levels will not be answered.
[/end]
Dutch
https://images20.fotki.com/v1672/photos/2/28344/377112/004xx1-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/oberndorf_frankenswede/004xx.html)