Guy Takes Bull Elk with Rossi 92 .357 magnum

[huntersdog]

Nice Bull Elk! Picture in link.

294285

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16522886/rossi-92-357-magnum-on-bull-elk#Post16522886

[pietro]

.

Yep - It's not so much the tool, it's how it's used.

.

[hoodat]

If you shoot them through the lungs, and don't lose their track, you will get your elk. Natives been doin it for thousands of years. jd

[freakonaleash]

Is that even legal? Not that I care one way or another. Many states have minimum caliber laws.

[Noah Zark]

What three things do desirable real estste and effective shot placement have in common?

Location, location, location.

Noah

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Can it be done? Obviously.
Is it a good idea? Questionable.
Would it work next time? Maybe.
Best tool for the job? Probably not.

DG

[badguybuster]

I took my cow elk with a Winchester in 357 mag. Using a 180 grain hard cast load. It was years ago but I doubt elk have gotten any harder to kill. If I recall she went less than 100 yards on a double lung. It was an archery range shot, under 40 yards.

[Uncle Grinch]

I think obviously this hunter knew what he was doing. A 35 caliber with reasonable velocity and distance to target and good shot placement is all it takes.

[dverna]

Can it be done? Obviously.
Is it a good idea? Questionable.
Would it work next time? Maybe.
Best tool for the job? Probably not.

DG

Good to see some common sense.

Too many people applaud foolish accomplishments.

[TurnipEaterDown]

It also depends on the state of an animal.

I have Witnessed whitetail deer take multiple 20 ga shotgun slugs through the chest, going down at each shot, PLUS a cylinder full of 44 (me and a friend side by side when a blowing hard, steaming, foaming at the mouth deer runs up after goodness knows how long a run through the woods), all less than 50 yd shots, and then drop it's head and run Through a 6" woven wire fence.
Wasn't a big deer either (110 lb maybe), and we found bits of lung, rib bone, meat, and more hair than a barber shop, on ground.

Full of adrenalin, or calm & placid, they act a lot different.

I had one experience like this on my friend's property, he had several. We got to calling them "toaster deer". They would just pop right up.
Like Ripley - unbelievable but true.

I think there was a book that looked at documented FBI shootings for handgun effectiveness -- Fackler (sp?) maybe was author? Assessments came w/ shoot scenario verbiage. Unbelievable what can happen for a short time, when the lungs have been working hard, oxygen level is elevated, blood pressure is already Very high, and adrenalin is present in large quantities.

The flip side is true too.
I shot a nice buck antelope once at ~ 350 yd. 6 mm 100 gr through lungs & heart. No kidding: fell over on it's back, feet straight up, twitched all four legs twice, and then just laid there like bloated road kill.

[Jack Stanley]

So elk are not bullet proof either , that's nice to know . Probably not something I'd try with that artillery but then people kill them with handguns .

Jack

[Shawlerbrook]

Yes, if you are a good hunter it opens up a plethora of new weapons you can kill with.

[jonp]

Great shot placement and a fine elk. Don't do it again.

[Outer Rondacker]

Hummm..... Nice gun.... Nice animal.... GREAT SHOT PLACEMENT...

Then again in my area more deer have been jacked with a 22 then anything.

[dverna]

Hummm..... Nice gun.... Nice animal.... GREAT SHOT PLACEMENT...

Then again in my area more deer have been jacked with a 22 then anything.

You are not alone. We get a lot of poaching here. One guy I know uses his "big gun"...22 Mag.

[dk17hmr]

Is that even legal? Not that I care one way or another. Many states have minimum caliber laws.

In Wyoming 38 special meets the minimum requirements....10mm doesn't though....rules are dumb

I don't know what state that dude is in.

[Castaway]

What bullet, what range and what velocity?

[trapper9260]

Hummm..... Nice gun.... Nice animal.... GREAT SHOT PLACEMENT...

Then again in my area more deer have been jacked with a 22 then anything.

I had read and told many years ago that the round that is used the most to jacked deer is the 22lr. When I was a teen out hunting with my dad and brother we found a head of a doe that had a 22cal hole in it , that is all that was left.

[Buzz Krumhunger]

What bullet, what range and what velocity?

From the link in original post:

“Barnes VORTX 140 Grain Bullet. Took just one shot at 65 yards. Bullet entered right side and exited on left side.”

[Tripplebeards]

That’s awesome!

[1Papalote]

Mr Wesson did that in 1935 with a 357 handgun.

[nelsonted1]

Lots of pictures in the article

https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/bella-twin-the-22-used-to-take-the-1953-world-record-grizzly-and-more/#axzz7HWSBAwXR
Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2017/06/bella-twin-the-22-used-to-take-the-1953-world-record-grizzly-and-more/#ixzz7HWTBctlv




Bella Twin, the .22 Used to Take the 1953 World Record Grizzly, and More
Ammoland Inc. Posted on June 7, 2017 by Dean Weingarten
By Dean Weingarten

Bella Twin is shown with the hide from the world record grizzly bear
Bella Twin is shown with the hide from the world record grizzly bear
Dean Weingarten
Dean Weingarten
Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- On 10 May, 1953, Bella Twin was hunting small game with her partner, Dave Auger, along an oil exploration cutline south of Slave Lake, in Alberta, Canada. She was 63 years old.

They saw a large grizzly bear coming toward them. Wishing to avoid an encounter, they hid off the side of the cut.

But the bear kept coming closer and closer. The bear got so close that Bella Twin thought it less risky to shoot the bear than to not shoot it. It was probably only a few yards away. Some accounts say 30 feet. Perhaps she saw it stop and start to sniff, as if it had caught their scent. We may never know.

She shot at the side of the bears head. Knowing animal anatomy very well (she was an experienced trapper, and had skinned hundreds, perhaps thousands of animals) she knew exactly where to aim to penetrate the skull at its weakest point.

She shot, the bear dropped. It was huge. She went to the bear and fired the rest of the .22 long cartridges that she had, loading the single shot rifle repeatedly, to “pay the insurance” as Peter Hathaway Capstick said. She made sure the bear was dead, and not just stunned. My father taught me the same lesson when I was 13.

Here is a picture of the bear’s skull and the .22 caliber holes in the left side.


1953 World Record Grizzly Skull
For those curious about how to place that shot on a live bear, the place to aim is half way on a line from the center of the eye to the ear hole.

From the front, you would aim directly up the nose. If the bear’s mouth is open, aim for the back of the roof of the mouth. Aiming above the nose will likely miss the brain.

What rifle did Bella use to shoot the world record grizzly in 1953?

I wrote an article asking for help in 2014. Several alert readers replied over the intervening period. Because of their efforts, and the Internets, I have been able to find more detail about Bella Twin, her rifle, and the event. One reader was able to track down the current location of the rifle and send me pictures taken by the curator of the museum. The rifle is a Cooey Ace 1 single shot .22 rimfire.


Bella Twin used the rifle for many years on her trapline. The rifle was produced between 1929 and 1934. From a commenter at Ammoland:

here is a quote from the curator of the museum about the gun when i talked to him via email:

” I can tell you that the rifle is a .22 caliber single shot Cooey Ace 1. I can also tell you that the rifle’s condition, which has remained as it was when Bella Twin shot the bear, leaves a lot to be desired. There is corrosion on the receiver and barrel, the front screw that holds the stock to the barrel is missing and has been replaced with hockey tape. There is a piece of rubber under the barrel – probably as a method of “free floating” the barrel. There is no finish left on the wood. The stock is missing a part by the receiver and there is a wood screw reinforcing a crack in the stock.”

Bella Twin was a Cree woman. She had a reputation for being a deadly shot. Her grandson, Larry Loyie became an award winning writer. He wrote a fictionalized account of the bear shooting to include his grandmother in his prize winning children’s book, As Long as the Rivers Flow. From smokyriverexspress.com:

Kokom Bella Twin is a highlight of the adventures in As Long as the Rivers Flow. The tiny 63-year-old Cree wo- man, who lived on Rabbit Hill overlooking Slave Lake, shot the biggest grizzly bear in North America.

“I had to put Bella into the book. She was being forgotten. The only people who remembered her were readers of hunting magazines,” said Larry.

In As Long as the Rivers Flow, Larry wrote that he was with his grandmother when she shot the bear. It made sense to put the story into the book, but Larry was not with his grandmother when she shot the bear. In 1953, Larry had been gone from Slave Lake for five years. I suspect his grandfather, Edward Twin, had died. Bella was 63 and was spending time with another man. Larry refers to Dave Auger as Bella’s partner in a family picture. Dave Auger was with Bella when she shot the bear.


Bella Twin and her partner Dave Auger, family photo by Larry Loyie. The photo was likely taken in the 1960’s or later, because it is in color.

In Bruno Engler: Photography, the famous photographer has pictures of Bella in front of the bear skin. When Bruno told her that he wanted to take the picture, she insisted on going home and sprucing up, and changing into nicer clothes. Engler writes:

She was dressed very simply. When she thought I was going to take a picture of her she said “No, I have to go home first.” And she came back with a dress and put some cornstarch on her face for makeup. I said “Bella Twin, you looked much better before.”

Women want to look their best in a photograph that will be shown to the world. This explains the somewhat awkward grip on the Cooey Ace 1 in the Engler photograph. Her left hand covers up the repair to the rifle.

What ammunition did Bella Twin use? The written accounts say .22 Long.


Ammo Used to Kill 1953 World Record Grizzly
This style of box was produced by CIL in Canada from 1950 to 1956. It is probably the type of ammunition Bella Twin used to shoot the world record grizzly. Bella Twin is specifically recorded as reporting that she shot it with .22 Longs, not Shorts, not Long Rifles. I recall that into the 1960’s Longs were more expensive than shorts, but cheaper than Long Rifle ammunition.

The High Velocity .22 Long dates back to the 1930’s and uses a 29 grain bullet at 1240 fps. The High Velocity .22 Short dates to about the same period, with the same bullet as the Long, but a velocity of 1125. The difference in velocity is 1240 – 1125 or 115 fps. That amounts to a 21% increase in energy for the Long, but far short of the Long Rifle, which is almost double that of the .22 Short.

The energy figures are listed as Short 81 foot pounds, Long 99 foot pounds, and Long Rifle 158 foot pounds, all for High Velocity loads of the period. A standard velocity .22 Long Rifle is listed at 1140 fps, with 120 foot pounds of energy, or 21% more than the High Velocity Long. The modern CCI standard velocity .22 Long Rifle travels at 1070 fps, with 102 foot pounds of energy, still 3% more than the High Velocity Long.

What was the location where the bear was shot? During my research, I came across a photo of the right side of the bear’s skull. The right side has the location where the bear was shot written on it. The bear was shot in Section 24, Township 71, Range 6, W 5th Meridian. That is a section of land about 7 1/2 miles south of Slave Lake. The bear was likely shot just west of Florida Lake. A section is one mile square.


In Larry Loyie’s obituary in the Smoky River Express, Bella Twin is described as a tiny woman. This photograph suggest that she was under five feet tall.


We know the date the bear was shot, because it is recorded on the top of the skull. Most written accounts only say it was the spring of 1953. It was on May 10th of that year.

Bella Twin was only a name for most of the time I knew of her. I wondered about this famous huntress for many years. Now we know that she was an expert trapper, hunter, and a crack shot. She was a beloved grandmother who taught her grandchildren well and knew the Cree traditional folkways. She lost one man and found another. She was shrewd enough to parlay the world record grizzly into cash. She sold the skin and skull separately, and sold the old, beat up rifle as well.

Bella Twin, I salute you. I would have liked to know you. Born in the Canadian wilderness in 1890, your life stretched between worlds.

May your memory and deeds live long, told around many campfires. I will tell my grandchildren about you.

Readers who know more about Bella Twin, please share your stories.

©2017 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.

Link to Gun Watch

[megasupermagnum]

I think some of you better look up what the performance of a 357 magnum rifle really is. It's on par with 454 casull handguns. Surely nobody would ever think twice about using a 454 casull handgun on an elk.

[versa-06]

Stories are just stories, But True Stories have body & character to them called Truth. Now that's a Good Story with what appears to be facts to back it. Thank You for sharing!

[outdoorfan]

Years ago Dan at Mountain Molds (I think his name is Dan) shot a bull elk with his wimpy 357 magnum carbine. ~180ish grain hard (HTed) lead bullet at 1700-1800 fps. Busted both shoulders and exited. Bull didn't go far.

Potent enough medicine...

[megasupermagnum]

Years ago Dan at Mountain Molds (I think his name is Dan) shot a bull elk with his wimpy 357 magnum carbine. ~180ish grain hard (HTed) lead bullet at 1700-1800 fps. Busted both shoulders and exited. Bull didn't go far.

Potent enough medicine...

No, I'm pretty sure it was a moose, which is at least as big, possibly bigger. He had all kinds of goodies on that forum. Loosing that was as big a loss as loosing his bullet molds.

[poppy42]

Is that even legal? Not that I care one way or another. Many states have minimum caliber laws.

Huh? It’s a 35 caliber it’s bigger than a 30-06,308,300 WinMag, 7 mm?

[outdoorfan]

No, I'm pretty sure it was a moose, which is at least as big, possibly bigger. He had all kinds of goodies on that forum. Loosing that was as big a loss as loosing his bullet molds.

The story that I'm referring to was definitely an elk. Perhaps a moose was a different event?

[TurnipEaterDown]

Looks like Mountain Molds is still in business. 2022 date on website: https://mountainmolds.com/

I do have a mold from him made round about 10 years ago, and I hold that mold very dear.

[kootne]

The original 30/30 loads were 160 grain bullet at 1900fps. I'm guessing .357 loads can be found for rifles that won't miss that by much. 30/30's killed lots of elk with well placed shots.

[outdoorfan]

The original 30/30 loads were 160 grain bullet at 1900fps. I'm guessing .357 loads can be found for rifles that won't miss that by much. 30/30's killed lots of elk with well placed shots.

My 357 16" Rossi 92 155 grain 360640 is running 2050 fps. 185 grain FN running 1800 fps.

[outdoorfan]

Looks like Mountain Molds is still in business. 2022 date on website: https://mountainmolds.com/

I do have a mold from him made round about 10 years ago, and I hold that mold very dear.


Thanks! Good to know.

I used the way back machine to look up and reread that experience of Dan shooting the bull elk with the Marlin .357. 2008.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Thanks! Good to know.

I used the way back machine to look up and reread that experience of Dan shooting the bull elk with the Marlin .357. 2008.

Link?

[outdoorfan]

Link?


https://web.archive.org/web/20101127015320/http://mountainmolds.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=3&start=25


"Let's see those cast bullet hunting pictures !"

https://web.archive.org/web/20101127125744/http://mountainmolds.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=155

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Thanks! Too bad the pics wouldn’t load…

[dk17hmr]

Huh? It’s a 35 caliber it’s bigger than a 30-06,308,300 WinMag, 7 mm?

Over all length requirements.

In Wyoming to be legal the over all length requirement is 1.5" and a minimum of 35 caliber so 38 special is legal for hunting and a 10mm isn't...... ridiculous

[beechbum444]

looking at the numbers of a 357 from a rifle and a 30/30, I don't think most folks give enough homage the 357 round

[megasupermagnum]

Looks like Mountain Molds is still in business. 2022 date on website: https://mountainmolds.com/

I do have a mold from him made round about 10 years ago, and I hold that mold very dear.

WARNING

That is NOT Mountain molds. That is a scam website. Avoid!

[megasupermagnum]

looking at the numbers of a 357 from a rifle and a 30/30, I don't think most folks give enough homage the 357 round

A 30-30 can be more, but your run of the mill stuff really isn't that much different. In 30-30, your classic loads like a 170gr and IMR 3031 run around 1900-2000 fps in a rifle. A 357 magnum rifle can hit 1850 fps with a 180 gr. You can get some really good numbers from a 30-30 though, especially with some of the newer powders like Leverevolution. It wasn't that long ago someone had worked up a load of a 220 gr at some crazy number like 2100 fps. And to that, the farther distance you get, the more a 30-30 pulls away. Inside of 100 yards though, a 30-30 and 357 magnum are neck and neck, pretty much ballistic twins.

[megasupermagnum]

Over all length requirements.

In Wyoming to be legal the over all length requirement is 1.5" and a minimum of 35 caliber so 38 special is legal for hunting and a 10mm isn't...... ridiculous

My hope is that we as hunters will continue to voice our opinions on this matter, especially as airgun hunting increases. Both cartridge length, and foot pound requirements are asinine. I still firmly believe there should be no caliber restrictions at all, and people will do the right thing for themselves. At the very least go the Minnesota route, and just ban rimfires for big game, all else goes. The few outliers, are going to be outliers regardless of the regulations.

[Screwbolts]

Great job to the fellow that harvested the Elk.

Many of your responses clearly show the world is changing and full of new "Karens" and "Carls" !

[Jaaymar]

Skill determines the outcome of most ballistic activities.
Most of us are very skilled with the most used cartridges/firearms in our inventory.
As the expenses, recoil, weight of the tool, etc. increase the willingness to practice decreases.
I have seen many animals maimed by the unskilled.
Head shots damage less meat, if meat is what your after being very skilled with the firearm is a necessity.
Most skilled students of ballistics realize when the shot is beyond them.

The animal appears to be dead.
From the picture it also appears to be in good shape (read: the animal did not suffer).
Congratulations on the humane harvest.

Remember, humans have used slings and pointy rocks to harvest meat & kill one another.
I would argue that any firearm is a step up in accuracy and possibly energy at the same distances.

Note: the government may be overreaching but at least it is also incompetent.

[txbirdman]

First elk I killed was a fork horn about the size of an average cow. From about 50 yrds I put 2 Nosler Partitions through his rib cage with a 7 REM :Mag. He didn’t break stride. He stopped behind a pinion tree and I could hear air blowing. He walked out in the open and I put another 150 gr in his shoulder and he stumbled a little as he went over a little hill. I expected he’d be lying there dead but he wasn’t. He was headed down hill when I put my 4 th shot in him. When I got to him he was still trying to get up so I finished him with a 429421 to the head from my Redhawk. That little guy took a lot of lead. I won’t be using a .357 on one.

[MT Gianni]

I have killed Elk with 150 gr out of a 308, 165 out of 30-06 90 gr out of a 243 and 280 Remington with 175 and 139 gr bullets. IME if you punch a hole in both lungs they don't go far. If you break the far shoulder they are usually down right there. Montana's seasons run concurrently. If I see a bull I am taking him with what I am carrying.

[Daekar]

Anyone who has reservations about shooting an elk with a 357 carbine needs to give themselves a reality check and read up on historical cartridge performance. As long as ranges are kept sensible and shot placement is good, it will do the job and then some.... and that applies to almost any hunting cartridge. It doesn't matter if you're using a 338 super duper magnum, if you don't match your range to your cartridge and hit the animal in the right place you're going to get a poor outcome.

Remember, an original 45 Colt black powder load was designed to go through a horse, and those loads aren't exactly stout compared to most things nowadays.

[gunseller]

For myself I would want a bigger cartrage. After 1873 the 44/40 or 38/40 were used to hunt elk and bigger animals and they worked. The 357 beats both. All I can say is good hunt and nice shot. Enjoy.
Steve

[bowfin]

I had a friend who was a Korean War veteran. He told me that when he got back, he "acquired" an M1 Carbine and was walking around the ranch with it when a cow elk bolted from the berm along an irrigation ditch. He put some rounds in its rib cage and it went down. I told him I didn't think that carbine was enough for an elk and he told me he didn't think it was enough for a regiment of Chinese coming up to his bunker the first night he was on the line, but the Marine Corps disagreed with him.
He said, "You do the best with what you have at the time."

That being said, I think I would take my 7mm Remington Magnum, mostly because that rifle fits me well.

[dverna]

All you need is a .22 LR if you "do your part".

[TurnipEaterDown]

So, one time several decades ago I decided to take a 17 Ackley Hornet on a trip w/ me to visit a friend 550 miles away.
I was forming brass at the time, never sighted the gun before the trip, and thought shooting outside w/ my friend who also enjoyed wildcats was a better idea than forming brass indoors shooting toilet paper wads into a padded cardboard box -- this decision after having a rather small bit of excitement w/ a "thermal event" inside the house I lived in at the time.
So, carrying the un-sited rifle into the shooting range on a 300 yd walk over the snow from the road, we see a pesky beaver ~ 80 yds out on a frozen pond. They had caused a number of recent problems, so I volunteered to shoot (at) it.
My friend egged me on.
So, I pulled up offhand, shot, and of course was WAY off. I remember that the beaver didn't even lift its head in our direction.
I then loaded another FF cartridge, guesstimated correction, and shot. Beaver tipped over. Other buddy went out and found bullet hole directly in beaver's head.

So, does this prove no one needs to site in a firearm if they get two shots on a target?
Hardly.

Yes, a 50 BMG is not required in most instances to kill an elk/deer/bear.
Yes, the physiological state of an animal matters: calm animals act different than animals that have been run hard or are scared recently.
Yes, shot placement accounts for a great deal. However, I have never been able to encourage an animal into better placement when I hunt. They seem to have their own mind about how they present themselves.
Yes, there are reasons that grizzly guides don't encourage clients to bring 243 Winchesters, and also generally dislike clients who bring a 460 Weatherby.

How many times you been pressed to do something w/o the correct tool,and used (for instance) a flat blade screwdriver to remove a phillips screw? Lots of things Can be done, question is Should they be done? Or used a screwdriver as a prybar, or slipped 2' of pipe on a ratchet handle? Depends given the conditions and the need. May be smart to use the flat blade to remove the phillips screw to get your car running when it won't start 50 miles from town on a dark night. Might be stupid to use it when the toolbox is right next to you and you are working on your prize gizmo.

There are a range of things "that work" in any given situation.
What "works" shouldn't really be a serious consideration.

What works consistently, without undue complications, given the considerations of the task at hand, should guide choices.

Emergencies can dictate choices, planning helps avoid emergencies and problems from employing the wrong tool for the task at hand.

[Smoke4320]

Animals can do strange and sometimes amazing things when shot.
I have shot approx 200 deer in the last 39 years (NC limit is 6 a year with normal tags and you can purchase an additional 4 doe tags )
many years I have put 3 in my freezer then find families in need and donate meat to them.
in those years I have used from a 300 Weatherby Magnum down to a 6mm Rem and a lot of calibers in between. Both jacketed bullets and the last 7 years cast only. Perfectly hit heart shot deer have been DRT and some have run 50 to 60 yds. Placement is paramount but not always a DRT

[white eagle]

some of the same people think you can't kill a deer with a 220 swift
but it's where you hit em

[megasupermagnum]

All you need is a .22 LR if you "do your part".

Think of it this way. A 357 magnum rifle at 65 yards, is about equivalent to a 308 winchester at 300 yards. Nobody in their right mind will ever talk down on a 308 winchester, and some people take some crazy long shots on elk.

[missionary5155]

As long as I have the option I will carry enough gun for the task and usually ere on the side of too much gun.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Think of it this way. A 357 magnum rifle at 65 yards, is about equivalent to a 308 winchester at 300 yards. Nobody in their right mind will ever talk down on a 308 winchester, and some people take some crazy long shots on elk.

I really like this comparison.

[versa-06]

I second the thoughts of missionary5155, I think too much gun is better than just enough. Who determines that? The shooter. Heavies usually carry more confidence when I hunt. Your mileage may vary.

[dverna]

Think of it this way. A 357 magnum rifle at 65 yards, is about equivalent to a 308 winchester at 300 yards. Nobody in their right mind will ever talk down on a 308 winchester, and some people take some crazy long shots on elk.

The .308 hits with just under twice the energy at 300 yards than the .357 in a carbine at 65 yards.

I am not on my computer and cannot do links. I will post later if I remember.

[megasupermagnum]

According to the Federal ballistic calculator I get the following

357 magnum 180 gr @ 65 yards = 1625 fps

308 winchester 180gr @ 300 yards = 1858

So I did misspeak, a 308 winchester 180gr @ 400 yards = 1649 fps

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I guess I have to champion the unpopular view on this.

First, one always hears about the unexpected successes of this or that cartridge that really isn't intended for that particular job: "I shot a grizzly with a .22 short. I shot an elk with a .22 magnum." In this case, "I shot an elk with a .357 Magnum." The reason why you read about such events is that they are unusual, not the norm.

What we don't hear about, because it is embarrassing, shameful, and unethical are the times that the chosen cartridge was insufficient to do the job. Have you ever read something like, "I shot an elk with a .357 Magnum at 150 yards. I hit it, but it ran away, and now there's 1,100 lbs. of prime elk meat rotting out in the woods?

Some things will almost never work (like the grizzly with the .22), some things will work some of the time, like a .357 Magnum at 60 yards, and some things will work almost all of the time like a .30-40 Krag 220 gr. RNSP at 150 yards on any of the above.

There is a concept in hunting sports called "Fair Chase", which involves more than stalking and marksmanship. It is an obligation to use the firearm/caliber matched to the game for any circumstances likely to be encountered when afield. Chose the gun that will bring the animal down even if your marksmanship is a bit off, the animal moved as you squeezed the trigger, etc. If you're going elk hunting and the shot could be from 25 yards to 200 yards the Rossi R-92 in .357 Mag. is not the ethical choice to take from the rack. You don't know what the circumstances such as range and weather (fog, rain), brush and terrain will be when the moment arrives. Common sense and ethics have to govern your choice. If they don't, you're not a sportsman.

DG

[dverna]

According to the Federal ballistic calculator I get the following

357 magnum 180 gr @ 65 yards = 1625 fps

308 winchester 180gr @ 300 yards = 1858

So I did misspeak, a 308 winchester 180gr @ 400 yards = 1649 fps

Please share load data. .357 with 180 gr has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 1400 fps on the Hodgdon site....this was their rifle data

[megasupermagnum]

Please share load data. .357 with 180 gr has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 1400 fps on the Hodgdon site....this was their rifle data

My favorite loads come from either the Lyman pistol and revolver handbook, or Lee reloading manual. If you are willing to accept a slight reduction, the 170gr bullet load for 300-MP on the Alliant website is a dozy, and will readily surpass 1900 fps from a rifle. I didn't want to compare 158 gr since it stacks odds in the 357's favor too much. I have no idea why Hodgdon list such low velocity, because their listed max loads of H110 and a 180gr are over 1300 fps in my 5" revolver. They are WAY faster than that in a rifle, generally in the 500 fps gain over a revolver, but I can't give you first hand knowledge, since I do not currently have a 357 magnum rifle.

You don't even have to load them. Federal 158gr American Eagle round comes out of a rifle close to 1900 fps. Buffalo Bore's 180gr does 1850 fps.

[dverna]

My favorite loads come from either the Lyman pistol and revolver handbook, or Lee reloading manual. If you are willing to accept a slight reduction, the 170gr bullet load for 300-MP on the Alliant website is a dozy, and will readily surpass 1900 fps from a rifle. I didn't want to compare 158 gr since it stacks odds in the 357's favor too much. I have no idea why Hodgdon list such low velocity, because their listed max loads of H110 and a 180gr are over 1300 fps in my 5" revolver. They are WAY faster than that in a rifle, generally in the 500 fps gain over a revolver, but I can't give you first hand knowledge, since I do not currently have a 357 magnum rifle.

You don't even have to load them. Federal 158gr American Eagle round comes out of a rifle close to 1900 fps. Buffalo Bore's 180gr does 1850 fps.

Thanks MSM. Looks like the Hodgdon data must be wrong. I am not near my other manuals and I use the Hodgdon site a lot.

[Ramjet-SS]

The gun , load and Hunter did his job the pic clearly shows a dead elk and bunch of delicious rich meat……

Anyone criticizing this is virtue signaling makes no sense at all.

[outdoorfan]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?220283-Elk-with-a-38-40-!!

Similar ballistics, and got the job done.

[jaysouth]

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Yep - It's not so much the tool, it's how it's used.

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It ain't the arrow, it ain't the quiver, it ain't the bow, it's the injun.

[megasupermagnum]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?220283-Elk-with-a-38-40-!!

Similar ballistics, and got the job done.

Nice one. Gotta love that soft alloy mushroom, only went 30 feet, although admittedly in country that open and flat, it wouldn't really matter how far they go.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

It would be tragic to have that much meat tainted by stress hormones if you did not get a quick, humane kill. Glad his shot was good.

[Beagle333]

I'm personally more of a "bigger is better" when it comes to guns guy, but "Nice elk!" to him anyway.

[kootne]

I spent many years as a "Dude wrangler", trying to get an elk for folks with guns bigger than I ever used. And a lot of them did get an elk. We hunted out of a back country pack in camp on National forest. So not a slam dunk like a lot of ranch hunts. I hunted in the timber, (that's where the elk were). If we got an elk, almost with out fail the guy shot at an elk that had no clue we were there. I got them positioned, got them a rest, I felt I did my job. I will say this, after seeing way too many gut shot shot elk at close range, that bullet placement is paramount, bullet construction is a consideration, and caliber debate is a waste of everybody's time. I have killed several with an old 45/75 Winchester and black powder shells. If you are hunting in open country, that is a different story. A canyon slinger cartridge has more validity there, but I will say this, if you can't kill it with a 30/06, you shouldn't be shooting at it. A 30/06 with today's bullets is a better longrange load than a .300 Mangle-um was in the '50's.

[lar45]

Dan from Mountain Molds got a Moose with a 357 Mag levergun many years ago. It did the job.

[Lonegun1894]

There buses to be a time I would have argued against doing this with a .357, but after spending years using it in various guns, I now know that it’s not so much what you use, but rather that you use it properly, and this hunter obviously knows how to
Use his .357 Mag.

[BadgerShooter]

A late friend of mine had a marlin marauder in 30-30. He killed at least 10 mule deer and 8 elk with it. He got close and put his shots where they counted. He used the old Remington 170 grain Roundnose Hollowpoint exclusively.

[memtb]

Good to see some common sense.

Too many people applaud foolish accomplishments.


👏 memtb

[Earl54]

Original 30/30 load was a 160gr soft point, at 1970 fps. 357 mag with a 180gr can stay real close to that in a rifle. If you can shoot well and pick your shots, I see no problem.

[Erich]

Please share load data. .357 with 180 gr has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 1400 fps on the Hodgdon site....this was their rifle data

I know this is incredibly late, but 180-gr Tennessee Valley Bullets or Penn .357 truncated cast flat point, Starline brass, 15.0 grains of Lil' Gun, CCI small magnum primer, firm roll crimp give velocities right around 1800 fps from Navy/Rossi 1892 20" short rifle at an altitude of just under 6k'. This was still an acceptable load this morning, according to the Hodgdon site. I'd imagine it would leave a mark. (That gun gets really interesting with 158-gr LSWC hardcasts.)

https://i.postimg.cc/0QHcnxLz/0325221349-2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/JDZN4w78)

[jonp]

A late friend of mine had a marlin marauder in 30-30. He killed at least 10 mule deer and 8 elk with it. He got close and put his shots where they counted. He used the old Remington 170 grain Roundnose Hollowpoint exclusively.

Walked one of my Buds to 15 yrds of a bedded 800lb 60in bull moose, the second biggest in the state that year. He had a 7mm Mag but a 30-30 would have done it in with the correct shot. Shot placement is everything