Is this kid going to blow up his gun?

[Idaho45guy]

Neighbor asked me to come inspect some rounds that his 18yr old son loaded for his Glock 19.

He said the kid is on some Facebook reloading group and that the answers are all over the place. Some say he is way over pressure and some say he is fine.

I can't find a specific load online that matches what this kid is doing. I had his dad take some pictures of the load data and pictures of the primers and loaded ammo.

I told them that I was pretty inexperienced with reloading, and never pushed my loads, so not real familiar with the signs of over pressure. But, told them I was on a gun forum with likely the most experienced reloaders in the world, so would post the pics and load data to get professional opinions.

Still waiting on the pics, but I do recall the kid is using Hornady XTP J-words in 90 grain. Kid is obsessed with small and fast loads. Powder is Alliant Bullseye and max load he's using is 6.3 grains of powder.

Alliant only shows loads for 115gr bullets and above and the max load for 115gr is 4.7gr and pushing it to 1144 fps out of a 4" barrel. Kid is also using a 4" barrel and is getting just under 1500 fps. Other loads are 5.8gr and 4.7gr.

Primers look a little flat, but not sure. He's definitely crimping too much.

I'll update with pics as soon as I get them downloaded. But what do you guys think based on the numbers?

[Davy Sprocket]

Hornady's manual has 4.4-5.5 for 9mm. They have 5.8-7.3 for 357 sig for that bullet. 9mm major is common in competitions where they over pressure 9mm to its max. Those kind of loads are made for custom 2011 pistols.

Sent from my SM-T867V using Tapatalk

[DougGuy]

Just googling I found a couple of hits for the 90gr XTP, this is mostly used in 380 not 9mm.


Midway's 9MM LoadMap indicates you could go up to 4.6-4.7 grains of Bullseye with the 90gr HP bullet with no problems. They listed overall length with HornadyXTP at1.080", Nosler HP at 1.050" Sierra JHP at 1.010", and Speer Gold Dot 90gr at 1.050" in their tests using RP cases and Win SP primers. I have no experience with 90gr bullets but just passing along info.
Horn. 90 XTP-4.7gr Bullseye--1289fps--30100psi
Nosler 90gr HP--4.7--1273fps--29200psi
Sierra 90JHP--4.7--1304fps--32400psi
Speer Gold Dot 90gr.--4.7--1269fps--31100psi


What pistol? Mind you, 90 grain bullets are usually for the .380 ACP. The lightest 9mm bullet I have data for or have seen data for is a 95 grain bullet. Alliant says 5.5 grains of Bullseye is max for them. Starting loads are 10% less. That about 4.9 grains.
If you don't have a manual, you need one.

Offhand I'd say not *IF* he will blow up the gun but when.

[Idaho45guy]

Found the pics...

I think the primers look fine, and he said the fastest he's gotten is 1521 fps. He said he got the load data from Hornady and knows he went over the max.

294272

294273

[Idaho45guy]

This bulging is due to over crimping, correct? 294274

[hoodat]

If you're talking 9mm Luger, I went to the old Speer #8 book which is crazy hot on a lot of things, and max with Bulls Eye was 5.3 gr with 90 gr Bullets. Sooooo I'd say he's right up in the stupid zone.

That old book was with Hercules powder, so I checked my newest Lyman book and it listed 5.2 gr with Alliant powder. Soooo, I'd still say that he's up in that zone.

Maybe he's using that weapon for bear defense, or has been told that his nine will do anything a 357 can. jd

[DDriller]

Quick load estimates the pressure on that load at 40,350 psi. 6k over the max for 9mm and right at failure pressure for the primers.

[Tar Heel]

Run

[megasupermagnum]

Quickloads at 1.065" OAL with a Hornady 90gr XTP and 6.3gr Bullseye predicts 37,632 psi and 1551 fps from a 4.5" barrel.

Lyman pistol and revolver handbook says max for a 90gr JHP at 1.010" OAL is 5.2gr Bullseye. It also says for 38 super, 1.125" OAL, max 6.8 gr Bullseye.

So is he going to blow up? Probably not. Is it kind of dumb? Yes. Try some Accurate #7 if you want a lazer fast load with ball powder.

[txbirdman]

If I had fired primers looking like that I’d be pulling bullets right after I got through saying a prayer of thanksgiving. Looks like he’s seating bullets cattywampus too.

[Idaho45guy]

Excellent! Thank you for the feedback!

[Idaho45guy]

What's the max he should be running with that powder? 5.3 grains? I think the least he ran was 5.5 grains.

[megasupermagnum]

What's the max he should be running with that powder? 5.3 grains? I think the least he ran was 5.5 grains.

I had to search a bit, but found in the 2000 Alliant manual, they list a 95gr FMJ with 5.5 gr bullseye. So somewhere in that 5.2 to 5.5 range is the max for Bullseye in 9mm luger at normal pressures. I don't know much about Glocks, but I don't see why the 19 couldn't be used in competitions. I don't know anything about pistol competions, It looks like with a 90gr bullet, 1390 fps gets a 125 power factor, which appears to get you into any class a 9mm should be in. It doesn't appear that until you reach 165 that you can reach major in USPSA or customer defensive pistol in IDPA. IPSC open requires 160, and 170 for standard. Point being he could probably reach 1390 fps with standard pressure, and he is NOWHERE CLOSE to coming up on the next level.

[dverna]

My buddy has a word he uses with his foolish nephew....*******. It may be why his dad approached you for advice...his dad know what he is.

There is no excuse for his carelessness.

I hope he listens to you, but I bet he doesn’t. Do not shoot with him.

[JimB..]

If he’s after light and fast, suggest that he consider VV 3n37 under a 65gr solid.

I wouldn’t suggest that he continue with his current approach.

[725]

Tell him to grow up. Testing the limit because "he's special" is stupid. When he hurts himself or others it will be too late.

[alamogunr]

When I was 18, I knew everything. Luckily, I wasn't into guns and reloading back then. Didn't have enough money to shoot anything but .22's.

Now I'm 79 and own at least a dozen load manuals and check 2 or 3 for every load/powder. Now my biggest problem is remembering to double check everything.

When I was 25 years younger, an older friend told me that "memory is the 2nd thing to go". I don't remember what the 1st was.

[Winger Ed.]

I wish ya the best with trying to save a fool from their self.

In my observations: People that start with max. loads and work up-
usually learn the error of their ways only after they've blown up one or two guns.

[megasupermagnum]

Ok, I think we can stop with the doom and gloom now. That load is not going to blow up a gun. I can promise you one thing. If you confront him and tell him he is being stupid, best case scenario is he tells you "Lets go Idaho". Just hand the dad the ammo, tell him he is about 1 grain over max, and that's all you should do. Why the dad is involved at all is perplexing, but I'm a believer we should all just watch our own bobber.

[Idaho45guy]

O Why the dad is involved at all is perplexing, but I'm a believer we should all just watch our own bobber.

I guess because the kid is, well, a kid. The dad knew I reloaded and assumed because of my advanced age, that I would know if a load was dangerous. The kid posted on a Facebook reloading group the loads he was shooting and got mixed advice. He told his dad about it and the dad asked me.

[Outer Rondacker]

[QUOTE=Idaho45guy;5331766] He said he got the load data from Hornady and knows he went over the max.


Hum after hearing this I would of made a nice but stern warning (comment) then said I can not help you.

Like others have said not if but when. You want to help his father, buy the kid a pair of shooting gloves.

[Meatpuppet]

This is really interesting.

Do you know what Generation G19 he is using? Is it an atermarket barrel? I would be suprised if it is a stock Glock barrel. I ask because brass is usually the weak point in Glocks. Those primers dont look too bad. My limited experience is that overpressure 9MM Glocks display case splitting/separation, bulging and flattened/blown primers before anything on the firearm lets go.

Glock "Open Class" 9M Major guns run about 40K-48K psi for tens of thousands of rounds. But there are upgrades to make that happen safely for that long.

Can you post side views of several fired cases? And it looks like the firing pin is "swiping" accross the primer, which would indicate the firearm is unlocking under too much pressure. Not good, but entertaining to watch from a safe distance.

[JSnover]

Tell him it doesn't matter what the internet says, if he got data from Hornady and then knowingly went over max, he's making a mistake.
It also doesn't matter what your experience is with 9mm reloads, if he sought your advice there's at least a chance he'll take it if you tell him "I wouldn't load it that hot, you're asking for trouble."

[1006]

Loading over pressure in the 9mm is not as bad an idea as using the same brass more than once.
It will give way. I have seen a few blow out at 9mm major levels. Every time, it was a small hole just above the extractor groove. New brass, or once fired brass will normally handle a 9mm Major load. The load mentioned does not make 9mm Major, but Bullseye is also not the right powder for the job. Most 9mm Major loads use powder in the AA5, HS-6, AutoComp, TruBlue, WAP area of the burn rate chart.

(velocity)X(bullet weight)=power factor(165,000 is major) This load is in the 145,000’s.

[country gent]

That load may not blow up the gun but its definitely going to increase the wear on it. I think at one time the Illinois State police statrd that the 9 mm +p cut the smiths they were using life in half

[Dukeconnor]

You never know who your standing next to at a range. If he wants to hurt himself thats his problem. Unfortunately may end up hurting someone else.

[contender1]

Lots of good responses here. Most point to the fact the kid is inexperienced,, and is flirting with danger.

One thing NOT mentioned in his reloads is the bullet seating depth. 9mm can easily increase the peak pressure point with a very small depth change in bullet seating. Peak pressure is where things get dangerous.

Going back to the Dad,, I'd be very calm, patient, and NOT use any words like stupid, or such.

I'd say things like;
I appreciate you asking me about this. It's obvious you care for your son & his safety. Your son has admitted to surpassing the limits given to him from a reputable loading manual & company. This causes me some serious safety concerns. Not just for you & your son,, but for any others who may be around IF,, that gun fails & blows up. Think of the liability you and your son can face if it happens & injures,, or gosh forbid,, kills someone else. Lawyers will take everything y'all have just on that one comment alone. "He knows he exceeded the recommended loads." Do you want to face a mother who lost a loved one because he's not following the safe guidelines by the companies who put a lot of money & effort in their testing of loads? And lawyers can & will sue you into the poor house. And your son,, what will you do if you lose him, or he gets severely injured by failing to be safe?
The internet has a lot of good stuff,, but it also has a lot of mis-information that can be dangerous. Tell your son that SAFETY must come first."

Doing this MIGHT get you a chance to teach this 18 yr old that handloading is a potentially dangerous thing,, AND prevent potential issues. PUSH the "Accuracy trumps power anyday," mantra. I tell students all the time; "No matter how powerful your gun is,, it's not worth a dern if you can't hit the target."

[35remington]

The swipe on the primer is caused by the barrel dropping to unlock while the firing pin still protrudes. This has nothing to do with pressure. Some amount of swipe is common even on standard pressure loadings.

Due to the way auto loading pistols of this type work, the gun cannot “unlock early or under too much pressure” The gun does not unlock until the bullet is gone and the pressure has dropped to zero. The pressure you are experiencing may well be too high, but the visual cues are not caused by “early unlocking due to too much pressure.”

I mention this to clarify actual versus perceived occurrences.

The gun unlocks when there is essentially no pressure at all. It cannot happen any other way.

[bangerjim]

First warning sign "kid".

Second warning sign "obsessed with speed"

Third warning sign "he knows he went too high"

Fourth warning sigh "getting load data from Facebook!"

Generally, he is way out in left field on these loads. If I were you, I would be in the far right field.....of another ball diamond!!!! In another town!

This is serious. Please post obituary when available.

banger

[dverna]

Being a kid has no bearing on this....I wish people would stop using that as an excuse for stupidity.... and not only here on this thread.

Like many of you, I started reloading at a young age...I was sixteen. No internet...just books and magazines. Maybe I was, and still am, a “girly man”, but I never exceeded maximum loads and always worked up loads when looking for higher end performance.

If this guy never read a manual and started to reload...he is stupid.
If this guy read the manual and ignored it...he is stupid.

And he needs to be told he is stupid. He needs a kick in the ass and not a group hug.

If you think differently, imagine he is dating your daughter or granddaughter and taking her to the range to shoot his super duper reloads.

[freakonaleash]

Accuracy is far more impressive than recoil and high speed.

[jonp]

I found some load data for Bullseye and 90gr Jacketed online and 5.7gr is clocking 1400fps. 6.2 if the bullet is seated to the ogive sounds way too hot primer flattening or not. XTP 90 N350 7.4 1532 is the only thing I can find at that velocity and I'm sure 6.2gr of BE is rolling in that vicinity if not more and I can find no data on powder in it's range that comes close to that velocity. I found some Titegroup at 1300fps and some Red Dot at 1350fps but that's as close as I could get with a powder that fast. All the 1500fps loads use a slower powder like Blue Dot or Unique. This leads me to believe the pressure may very well be over max with a fast powder.

Frankly, I wouldn't shoot those and advise him to back that load down.

As for velocity, when I started out reloading I also went down the velocity rabbit hole thinking velocity was king. Took a while to realize accuracy with the proper bullet trumps all at least for me.

[bangerjim]

Being a kid has no bearing on this....I wish people would stop using that as an excuse for stupidity.... and not only here on this thread.

Like many of you, I started reloading at a young age...I was sixteen. No internet...just books and magazines. Maybe I was, and still am, a “girly man”, but I never exceeded maximum loads and always worked up loads when looking for higher end performance.

If this guy never read a manual and started to reload...he is stupid.
If this guy read the manual and ignored it...he is stupid.

And he needs to be told he is stupid. He needs a kick in the ass and not a group hug.

If you think differently, imagine he is dating your daughter or granddaughter and taking her to the range to shoot his super duper reloads.

Quick................hire a teenager while they still know everything!

banger

[reddog81]

He said he got the load data from Hornady and knows he went over the max.


I love this quote! The load data is not "from Hornady" if he knows he went over max...

I'd ask what in the world is he trying to accomplish with this. If his answer it to beat is gun up so it wears out much faster than is should then tell him to keep at it. Best you can probably do is show him relevant load data and show that his is way over max.

Some people tend to think loads go directly from safe to KABOOM. And since this load isn't a KABOOM, by default it must be safe. This is faulty logic as there is a whole spectrum of loads - Light, target, moderate, heavy, full strength, +P, +P+, excessive by any measure, dangerous and then Kaboom. Anything in the +P, +P+ or hotter is going to cause excessive wear on the gun. He's probably flirting with the +P+ range (maybe over). This range of loads is kind of specific to 9mm since 9mm has +P load specs...

[farmbif]

so, this this is the experimental reloader you just might be next to at a public shooting range.
someone really ought to get that kid a Lyman manual and tell him to read the whole thing before he starts putting primer, powder and bullets in empty brass.

[farmbif]

ive seen it before as the paramedics rush the shooter off on a gurney trying to hold the blood in his body and the shooter is saying something like yeah that was a good powerful load

[Buzz Krumhunger]

Hey, somebody on Facebook said he was going to be ok with that load. That trumps all other sources of information, right?:kidding:

[reddog81]

ive seen it before as the paramedics rush the shooter off on a gurney trying to hold the blood in his body and the shooter is saying something like yeah that was a good powerful load

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

[Big Tom]

Simply share this thread with the dad and his son. Maybe a few more voices get him on track. Good thing though that there are younger kids into reloading at all...

[243winxb]

Blow up- meaning KABOOM https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/kaboom.24/
Photos. Plastic guns dont do well.

Loads for 9mm major seem to be always over book maximum. Like proof loads. Brass good for 1 firing.

[Plate plinker]

Hand him some safety glasses and one of those clear face things people are wearing these days. +1 one on the gloves and maybe he should where a armored vest and welding mitts for more safety. He needs a education before he gets a education.

[zarrinvz24]

Glocks are designed for military ammo, this hasn’t been mentioned yet but the current M882 NATO 9mm specification falls squarely in the +P category. It likely will be fine. I wouldn’t advise it, as there will be some undue wear, but he is extremely unlikely to have issues. Kabooms normally happen from a squib load with the bullet lodging in the barrel, followed by a double charge.

[megasupermagnum]

Ok, you guys are really getting ridiculous. You don't know this person, you don't know how long he has been loading, you don't know what he is trying to do. 9mm +P spec is 38,500 psi. As I said earlier, when I put this into Quickloads, this load is estimated 37,632 psi. This is in no way a danger to himself or others by itself. It might not be nice to his gun, but it isn't an more dangerous than going out and buying factory loaded +p ammo. Remember, most of you are from the generation where all your good stories start with "Some buddies and I were driving around, and just finished our second case of beer".

[Outer Rondacker]

Ok, Remember, most of you are from the generation where all your good stories start with "Some buddies and I were driving around, and just finished our second case of beer".

Ya but remember those cases where only six packs back in the day.

[35remington]

Running himself notably beyond currently published suggestions is a red flag for sure.

That isn’t being judgmental, just an opinion borne of being a handloader for many years. Striking off on your own without knowing for sure is not well advised. Guessing is not reassuring, and published data is where the real science lies. Not seat of the pants.

Rather like the old pilot/bold pilot shtick.

[megasupermagnum]

Running himself notably beyond currently published suggestions is a red flag for sure.

That isn’t being judgmental, just an opinion borne of being a handloader for many years. Striking off on your own without knowing for sure is not well advised. Guessing is not reassuring, and published data is where the real science lies. Not seat of the pants.

Rather like the old pilot/bold pilot shtick.

Unless he was trying to meet the major power factor requirement, in which case ALL competitors are going above published load data. The only mistake he made if this is the case is that power factor is the opposite of bullet energy. Energy favors light bullets going fast, where power factor favors heavy bullets going slow.

[35remington]

Given the context, it is unreasonable to bestow upon a teen powers of science and measurement that few handloaders have. There is no indication he has earned that. Thus the tone here should properly be that of caution and conservatism.

For safety’s sake, assume that individuals often operate with inadequate information. In human terms it is the way to bet.

[megasupermagnum]

You have no idea the context, and neither do I. Teen or not, that's an 18 year old man. For whatever reason his dad brought ammo to Idaho for inspection. It could be as simple as he wanted a second opinion from someone who isn't on the internet on why he is getting firing pin swipe. Don't blow this out of proportion for what it is.

[35remington]

The context always was that the context is unknown. That seemed pretty evident but I guess I have to make it more plain now.

By the same token, recognize that safety is the prime consideration when handloading and that since his qualifications and motivations are unknown….smart advice always errs on the safe side.

Always.

[35remington]

If someone has to ask why he is getting firing pin swipe, nobody proximate to the ammo assemblage, dad or son, has a good handle on what is going on. They did ask for other opinions which means they themselves are not sure.

That you can take a a sign there is a lack of knowledge here. The reaction here is justified, exactly because of what is not known.

[megasupermagnum]

In no way did he deserve being called all the names he has been, most of which are censored. A cautions reaction sure. Being called a dip****? No.

[Outer Rondacker]

In no way did he deserve being called all the names he has been, most of which are censored. A cautions reaction sure. Being called a dip****? No.

I second this.

I still know people who reload and do not own a reloading manual. These are the guys who are always looking for faster, hotter loads.

Most of us on this forum are of a more mature mind set and have already learned our lessons. We look at things in an older style. Rules regs and so on. The new generation is point click instant result and go with more of a well everyone else is doing it attitude.

[Three44s]

This is the way handloading gets a bad name!

A newbie pushing the limits ......

I started at age nineteen with no mentor at all. I bought manuals and read. In 1975 there was no internet, just books.

When I came to the .243 Win cartridge I was hunting coyotes with an “old guy” in his forties. He shot a 75 gr hp Hornady at book max of 46.7 gr of IMR 4350. I started the same bullet and got great groups at 44.8 gr of the same powder. That did not sit well with him as he said I was losing velocity.

I never budged and a few years later I killed a coyote at 445 yds. with the same combo .........

Three44s

[Forrest r]

Odd a glock 19 can't handle 37,xxx psi loads??? I thought glocks were P+ rated, I know my taurus g2c is (38,500psi).

If you click on the picture of the spent cases the op posted and save it to your computer. You can blow it up and take a good look at the primers. They all have round edges/aren't flattened. The "fp swipes" don't look bad to me and if you blow the picture up you will see there's not only a mix of primers used, not all of them have swipes.

Perhaps the young man is having a hard time finding primers and used some federal sp primes which are soft/more prone to odd fp hits with higher pressure loads.
Perhaps the slide needs a good cleaning and the fp channels has just enough junk in it to slow the fp's movement down every 2nd/3rd/4th shot.

Interesting choice in bullet, don't know what the glock 19's sights are calibrated to/ (ammo/distance). But that light bullet going +/- 1500fps is going to be hitting extremely low. Hopefully he's using a reddot.

Awhile back I started doing a little testing using a 110gr cast bullet and hot/max standard pressure loads in 38spl & 9mm cases. Used a 2" bbl'd 38spl and that 3.2" bbl'd taurus g2c to test those loads in. I stopped testing after that, no need to try p+ loads simply because that 110gr bullets was hitting too low/so low the sights were worthless @ 50ft. Perhaps @ +/- 3yds it wouldn't matter but I like to setup my cc firearms to hit to the poa @ 25ft.

Anyway, I like this kid!!! Looks like he's done due diligence and found data for what components he had to work with.

Myself, I don't like light bullets in the 9mm's. Like using +/- 4.0gr of bullseye with +/- 124gr bullets in the 9mm and don't load "max" pressure p+ loads with any initial testing with any bullet/powder combo.

But then again being a caster, I have a pretty much unlimited supply of bullets to work with. With the odd choice of bullets and things still being tight, that 18-year-old might be having a hard time finding components let along having the $$$ to buy them. If anything, that young man should do 2 things:

1. Wait for a 2nd range trip to test top end loads/study the initial testing (with starting/middle end loads) 1st looking at targets, velocities, spent cases along with looking for erratic behavior in the loads.
2. Join this cast bullets website, judging by the posts in this thread. I'm sure he'll not only receive a warm welcome:bigsmyl2:, he'll find a whole new world of reloading to explore.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have Bullseye powder but rarely use it. It is not a powder that is forgiving for even the smallest mistakes. I have been reloading since 1959 and still occasionally make a mistake. I mostly use Unique. When I read a manual, I never use the max suggested load. I drop at least a half grain, maybe more. The paper targets I shoot don't seem to know the difference.

[Outer Rondacker]

Mize well stir the pot once more before getting back to work. Just kidding.

Only one Glock has a fully supported chamber and its not a G19.

[Oyeboten]

I hate to sound cynical or jaded or indifferent, as I am none of those, but, my first thought with this, was to think "It's a Glock, and the guy is an idiot, so, who cares?"

And, then...no second thought seemed to follow...

[jonp]

Unless I missed the post it seems no one actually measured the powder and bullet to see what it looked like. I had a new box of XTP 90gr I bought for my .380, #35500, on the shelf so opened it up. I also pulled out a bottle of Bullseye I had hanging around. Using a Federal 9mms and seating to the ogive gives you a slightly compressed load. Seating it out to what the picture in #5 looks like the powder is right on the base of the bullet with little or no airspace.

I have not played with BE that much but have a keg of it. I might load some of these up this weekend and approach max over a chrony to see what the velocity actually looks like with these as 90gr is not something I would use in a 9mm.

Hornady says 1500fps is the max on this bullet. I'd be worried about bullet destruction at or above this speed

[Winger Ed.]

I have not played with BE that much but have a keg of it. I might load some of these up this weekend and approach max over a chrony

Don't do it. You'll shoot your eye out kid.:kidding:

[jonp]

Don't do it. You'll shoot your eye out kid.:kidding:

I have a suit of armor I wear for testing

[jonp]

Excellent! Thank you for the feedback!

2cd pic doesnt look too bad to me but that first picture has primers i would not like to see.

Can you clarify "he got the loads from Hornady"? If they are over published max i doubt anyone at Hornady gave him that load and ive gone onto a number of forums without anyone coming close to that. I would be very cautious. My advice to the young man would be to pull those and stick to book max until he got quite a bit more experience.

Lack of experience does not make a person stupid. He went to where lots of kids get advice now for good or ill. This is a golden opportunity to help him out before he gets hurt

[fn1889m]

jonp: “This is a golden opportunity to help him out before he gets hurt.”

I am surprised more people didn’t suggest that you offer to walk him through your own reloading, and may be become his mentor. You don’t have to know everything about reloading to teach someone the basics. And I appreciate the person who helped me reload my first few shells. He emphasized the importance of finding a load in a manual, and weighing it exactly, and making ammunition that was as close to perfect as possible. This new reloader needs to know that accuracy and safety matter most. Show him your press. Show by example. If he reloads 9mm, make 50 rounds of 115 grain bullets with him. Talk to him about powders and presses. Give him a subscription to Handloader magazine. Talk about other calibers. Take him to the range and practice accuracy with him and his father.

I think it is possible that the kid only needs someone to be an example. Perhaps this is wishful thinking. But I was surprised that most people here did not suggest this. I always received a lot of support and encouragement from this site even though have done a lot of stupid things in my life, too. Sometimes you just don’t know until until someone helps you. Been there on both sides.

[John Guedry]

That youngster should be thankful for a mentor. As a lot of older folks who got a start just by reading and not on the internet. I would have given anything to have had someone to look over my shoulder.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Ya but remember those cases where only six packs back in the day.

Yeah 4 six packs where I lived .

[Nazgul]

9mm head spaces on the case mouth. They should not be roll crimped.

Don

[Cast10]

If he’s chasing velocity, it’s just a matter of time……Try and find a load manual that shows min/max load and min/max pressures for that load. Stay within the SAAMI specs. Loads should be worked up. Max load minus at least 10%. Also, each chamber may be different and starting on the upper end is asking for kaboom! IMHO.

[Idaho45guy]

Went out shooting with the kid and his dad today. Both exhibited excellent range habits and discipline. They had a chronograph with them and the kid was shooting some .223 loads and some more 9mm loads, but this time using 124gr XTPs.

.223 loads were within reason, but the 124 grain loads, again, were going exceptionally fast. 1296 fps out of a Glock with 4" barrel. Hottest load I can find on Hodgdon website is 1008 fps using the XTP. For any bullet, the fastest is 1212 fps.

I relayed the advice in this thread in a kind and gentle manner, and he seemed to accept it.

My own 9mm defensive loads were only going 987 fps out of the 3" barrel of my P365 using 124 gr XTPs and Ramshot Silhoutte in 32 degree weather.

And my .45 Colt loads were way too slow per the manual. 16" barrel and 22 grains of IMR 4227 using an XTP in 250 grain with the fastest being 1,160 fps.

[35 Whelen]

Ok, I think we can stop with the doom and gloom now. That load is not going to blow up a gun. I can promise you one thing. If you confront him and tell him he is being stupid, best case scenario is he tells you "Lets go Idaho". Just hand the dad the ammo, tell him he is about 1 grain over max, and that's all you should do. Why the dad is involved at all is perplexing, but I'm a believer we should all just watch our own bobber.

Exactly. Let's ratchet the drama back a bit and think rationally.

First, looking at primers as an indication of pressure, especially in this case, is folly. How could a small pistol primer possibly know to flatten in a 32 ACP max load that runs 20K psi chamber pressure, but not flatten in a less than maximum .327 Federal Magnum load that's running 40K psi?

Second, the Glock is chambered in the .357 Sig, which is loaded to 40K psi here and 44K psi overseas. So I think it's safe to say the pistol can handle it.

Yes, he his definitely over max with his load, but as mega said, explain this to he and the dad, tell them that loads like that are unsafe and hard on the pistol, and move on. No need for the worn out "Kaboom" predictions.

35W

[bowfishn]

Some one should probably call up Hornady and let them know their 124 XTP 9mm +p loads are unsafe as they are pushing them 167 fps faster than Hodgdons claims you can out of a 4" barrel.

And while you are on the phone give Buffalo Bore Ammunition a call because they sell 9mm +P 95 grain loads that clocked 1374 fps and 124 gr that clocked 1296 fps out of a Glock 19 with a 4" barrel.

I know that Hornady and BBA use proprietary powder but still?

[jonp]

Just loaded some up to run over a chrony. Unfortunately it's too nasty out to do it today. I played with the seating depth a little bit will start testing at midrange, 4.6gr BE. Top end is about 5.2gr so I will proceed with caution. I doubt I will approach the young man's loading, though

I was going to use my all steel Kahr K9 but instead will use a Zenith which is used by the Turkish military so is proofed for +P to conform with NATO specs. I bought 2 on sale a few years ago and one is still NIB. It's a full size polymer frame and a tackdriver.

[wl620]

This bulging is due to over crimping, correct? 294274

Looks almost like a roll crimp I dont know much about reloading 9’s but i do know you need a taper crimp die you may inspect his die set and see if it is a roll crimp or taper crimp.
On another note maybe you should try to help this young man maybe you could be a mentor of sorts For him to learn how to do these things correctly it wouldn’t take a whole lot of your time and it may save him some appendages. You could start by deleting his Facebook and get a good reloading manual.

[PBMAX84]

Glocks are just looking for an excuse to blow anyway.

[Idaho45guy]

Glocks are just looking for an excuse to blow anyway.

Looks like we got a troll...

[Baltimoreed]

Only looked at the first photos but I don’t think smearing your primers is a good sign.

[lar45]

I'm a little late to the conversation, but Looking at Quickload... I'm with MagaSuperMagnum in that the pressures look to be around 37k.
The 90gn XTP is a very short bullet, so one thing we need to know is to what length is he loading them? The 9mm is a fairly small case and adjusting the seating depth can effect the pressure and velocity quite abit.
If we look at max pressure for the 9mm, then 6.0gns of Bullseye should give around 1450fps safely and be just under 35kpsi.
I don't shoot a Glock, but that's just because they don't fit my hand very well. The Glock's are supposed to be very strong and durable guns. I don't think he's going to blow up the gun, but with his over pressure loads, he needs to think about slide velocity and if it will batter the gun...
I wonder if they make a slide buffer for the Glocks.
Anyways, that my 2 cents

[Jaaymar]

Went out shooting with the kid and his dad today. [sic]…

And my .45 Colt loads were way too slow per the manual. 16" barrel and 22 grains of IMR 4227 using an XTP in 250 grain with the fastest being 1,160 fps.

Are you using a magnum primer? IMR shows H-4227 data right in that range with the right velocity but out of a 7-1/4” barrel. They indicate a WLP primer, which I believe Winchester considers it to be a magnum primer.

[megasupermagnum]

Are you using a magnum primer? IMR shows H-4227 data right in that range with the right velocity but out of a 7-1/4” barrel. They indicate a WLP primer, which I believe Winchester considers it to be a magnum primer.

I didn't even notice, but Idaho started this thread about a 9mm that is slightly over book load, and then comes back with a 45 colt load that is at least 2 grains over any listed max I can find.:p 1160 fps with a 250gr sounds like a good healthy rifle load to me. Should have got a 44 magnum if you wanted more.

[44MAG#1]

I didn't even notice, but Idaho started this thread about a 9mm that is slightly over book load, and then comes back with a 45 colt load that is at least 2 grains over any listed max I can find.:p 1160 fps with a 250gr sounds like a good healthy rifle load to me. Should have got a 44 magnum if you wanted more.

It seems like you haven't read Hornady 10th manual.

[Jaaymar]

I didn't even notice, but Idaho started this thread about a 9mm that is slightly over book load, and then comes back with a 45 colt load that is at least 2 grains over any listed max I can find.:p 1160 fps with a 250gr sounds like a good healthy rifle load to me. Should have got a 44 magnum if you wanted more.

From IMRPOWDER.COM
295994

This is a ruger only load.
Certain rifles can handle the extra pressure and it is up to the person using the load to verify that it is safe.

Same as the father of the young man whose concern drove him to seek additional information regarding his sons 9mm handloads.

[Texas Gun]

OK people you do not crimp 9 mm at all there’s a lot of around you do not crimp. And it sounds like he’s running in the + P load range Not by my +P manual can check when I get home

[44MAG#1]

OK people you do not crimp 9 mm at all there’s a lot of around you do not crimp. And it sounds like he’s running in the + P load range Not by my +P manual can check when I get home

I taper crimp fairly heavy on 9MM, 40 S&W, 10MM and 45 Auto.

[Texas Gun]

And 9mm 40/10mm 45acp
Head space off the mouth of the brass


I don't know why folks are advocating crimp to prevent set back. Set back happens because you don't have enough tension between the bullet and your case. In a straight walled cartridge like 9mm, this tension is achieved by pressing in a bullet that is slightly too big for the case. What holds your bullet is only this tension of the case neck against the sides of the bullet itself. The amount of force to press the bullet in further would continue to deform the case walls by stretching it. This takes a lot of force! Hence the press to get the bullet into the case in the first place.

A taper crimp overdone can undo this tension. The reason is that copper springs back more than lead does (even using jacketed bullets). You squeeze the bullet a bit inside the case, and the case later springs back a microscopic amount while the bullet itself does not to this extent. This reduces case tension. The taper crimp die should only be used to remove the bell created in order to easily place the bullet on the case mouth prior to seating it.

I use beveled lead 9mm bullets and do not bother crimping at all since I don't need to bell larger than the bullet diameter for easy seating.

[44MAG#1]

And 9mm 40/10mm 45acp
Head space off the mouth of the brass


I don't know why folks are advocating crimp to prevent set back. Set back happens because you don't have enough tension between the bullet and your case. In a straight walled cartridge like 9mm, this tension is achieved by pressing in a bullet that is slightly too big for the case. What holds your bullet is only this tension of the case neck against the sides of the bullet itself. The amount of force to press the bullet in further would continue to deform the case walls by stretching it. This takes a lot of force! Hence the press to get the bullet into the case in the first place.

A taper crimp overdone can undo this tension. The reason is that copper springs back more than lead does (even using jacketed bullets). You squeeze the bullet a bit inside the case, and the case later springs back a microscopic amount while the bullet itself does not to this extent. This reduces case tension. The taper crimp die should only be used to remove the bell created in order to easily place the bullet on the case mouth prior to seating it.

I use beveled lead 9mm bullets and do not bother crimping at all since I don't need to bell larger than the bullet diameter for easy seating.

I have been reloading for 51 years. Started out with just straightening out the flare then went to fairly heavy taper crimp and will not go back.
My case tension is fine without or with the fairly heavy taper crimp

[JimB..]

I have been reloading for 51 years. Started out with just straightening out the flare then went to fairly heavy taper crimp and will not go back.

Since I don’t apply a heavy crimp to autoloader rounds I’m curious, what is the big benefit? I’m good on accuracy, rounds neither set back nor pull. I’m willing to try, just want to know where I should look for improvement.

[44MAG#1]

Since I don’t apply a heavy crimp to autoloader rounds I’m curious, what is the big benefit? I’m good on accuracy, rounds neither set back nor pull. I’m willing to try, just want to know where I should look for improvement.

I never made any claims about anything. I have noticed the factories use a fairly heavy taper crimp on their premium ammo. The heavier taper crimp does seem like a more smooth transition into the barrel. I shoot Glocks and 1911's. I don't try to dream up reasons just to validate what I do. Accuracy with both crimps is good. I just use fairly heavy taper crimps on the cartridges I named and have had very good performance. So I continue to do it.

[megasupermagnum]

It seems like you haven't read Hornady 10th manual.

It was tongue in cheek humor.

[kenton]

I won't speak for 44mag#1 but I have seen my lower pressure sooty 38spl loads clean up once I started using a heavier roll crimp. I wonder if similar but lesser gains could be found with a heavy taper crimp. Additionally, I wonder if having the cartridge seat deeper into the chamber allows the boolit to start closer to engraving on the rifling helping with accuracy. Then we could open the can of worms that is the crimp jamming on the transition to the chamber lead further increasing chamber pressure and possibly improving combustion consistency. Or maybe that wouldn't happen...

[VariableRecall]

As a fairly new reloader and a Young'in myself, the stiffest load I've put into my 9mm handgun, a Hi-Point C9, is an experimental small-batch of 5gn of Win231 with a 124gn RN projectile. Being a blowback firearm and advertised as +P capable, it was able to handle it no problem. However, the slide "bottomed out" at every shot, which pretty quickly became uncomfortable after a magazine or two.
From my experience with it, my C9 appears most comfortable with a loading of around 4.4-4.8gn of powder. With anything below 4.2, the cases fail to provide a complete gas seal, but still cycle normally.

I still err on the side of starting from the lowest recommended, observe the brass to check if it's obturating properly, and work it up until I get a complete seal. Usually I try and see if can make my reloads nigh indistinguishable from factory by feel.

I'd say unless that kid has a +P capable handgun, he's asking for trouble.
One thing I'd suggest if you can contact him is he should try and directly compare factory ammo to his own loads, and work to make his stuff more like your average factory load.

[Idaho45guy]

As a fairly new reloader and a Young'in myself, the stiffest load I've put into my 9mm handgun, a Hi-Point C9, is an experimental small-batch of 5gn of Win231 with a 124gn RN projectile. Being a blowback firearm and advertised as +P capable, it was able to handle it no problem. However, the slide "bottomed out" at every shot, which pretty quickly became uncomfortable after a magazine or two.
From my experience with it, my C9 appears most comfortable with a loading of around 4.4-4.8gn of powder. With anything below 4.2, the cases fail to provide a complete gas seal, but still cycle normally.

I still err on the side of starting from the lowest recommended, observe the brass to check if it's obturating properly, and work it up until I get a complete seal. Usually I try and see if can make my reloads nigh indistinguishable from factory by feel.

I'd say unless that kid has a +P capable handgun, he's asking for trouble.
One thing I'd suggest if you can contact him is he should try and directly compare factory ammo to his own loads, and work to make his stuff more like your average factory load.

How did you end up down in AZ?? Last I saw you were going to WSU in Pullman and only had some older S&W. Hope you are doing well!

[VariableRecall]

How did you end up down in AZ?? Last I saw you were going to WSU in Pullman and only had some older S&W. Hope you are doing well!

I graduated and got a job over in Tempe! Not what I expected but hey, I'm employed now!

[Idaho45guy]

I graduated and got a job over in Tempe! Not what I expected but hey, I'm employed now!

Nice! I'll be in Yuma next weekend to pick up a motorcycle. Staying at a buddy's house up in New River for a night first. I like the area!