45-70 boolits for light game

[wildmusk]

I finally bought a Miroku 1886 this year, and jumped into cast boolits without any prior experience. I started with 405g FP and Varget, initially loaded them too hot. Once I figured out (thanks to folks here), the rifle shot very well at 1300fps. I shot a deer and 2 hogs with it, but the terminal performance was lackluster. I must have read a books worth of internet crap about hunting with 45-70, somehow missed anything about how lead slugs don't expand much, least not on deer. So for now I found a 300g JHP that should do better, but would really like a cast option, if such a thing exists? Will a softer alloy or HP design give better terminal performance on the lighter animals I mostly hunt? It'd be nice to have boolits that expanded to silver dollar size without breaking apart. Incidentally, the 300g at 2000fps required a higher front sight, so I tried my hand at making one on my Bridgeport...seems to work ok.

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[sukivel]

I shoot the MP 462 Hammer hp’s at about 1200ish and they expand out to a little bigger than a quarter. BHN is in the 13 ballpark.


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[gmfowler2]

Another option is NOE's 460-350-RF with hollow points, 318gr in my wheelweight alloy, check and lube. It's a cavern of a cavity and should about turn inside out with a softer alloy.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220102/88f16dec41eeae0218e9f0985e7e6d86.jpg

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[wildmusk]

Thanks for the suggestions, those both sound good. The cavity on that NOE mould looks awesome!

[GregLaROCHE]

I don’t think you can go wrong with this mold. You need your alloy to be as soft as possible and without antimony, to get good expansion without pieces breaking off.

I’m on a list to be contacted when back in stock for these. Last time I did the same thing and it was only a couple of weeks before the mold was back in stock.

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-462-420-hollow-point-mold-multi-choice/

[Castaway]

What alloy did you use to cast your bullets? I’ve recovered only two 1:20 bullets, both the size of a quarter. One of life’s great mysteries is why a 100 yard shot, broadside, with 420 grain bullet placed in the heart/lung area of FL 100 pound doe didn’t exit. The other recovered bullet traveled the length of an Alabama deer and was recovered under the skin of the left shoulder. Having said that, have you recovered any of the bullets? A 45 starts out bigger than a 30 caliber will expand to. Not as fast but it generally makes a good inney and outey. I’ve seen deer run 100 yards with no heart left, it doesn’t mean the bullet failed

[Edward]

Pure lead with a little tin if you can't get good fill out , run it hot and you will get it with just pure ! Leave out any alloy/hollow point or( other fancy) time consuming complications just pure (HOT) ,it wiped out buffalo and we are talking small game
right ? Just keep the speed down 12-1300 FPS and do what works !/Ed

[missionary5155]

Good morning
This is the same model we turned into a 50 Alaskan.
But... our's had a groove of .457 which made life easy. So run up some roundball of 40-1 .002 over groove and fire them at 800 fps. Will dispatch any 30 pound ground hog it thwaps into. Shoulders or head shots "anchors" them well.

[gunseller]

I have been shooting 45/70s for longer than I can remember. The load I use the most in smokeless powder is a 400 grain flat poi t over enough IMR3031 to get to 2000FPS. At 100 yards with a chest hit there is a big hole on each side with the deer on the ground. Flat based bullet cast out of air cooled wheel weights. When I load black I use a 500 grain bullet over 63 grains of black 1/4 inch cardboard wad and 1/4 inch compression. Shot deer at 600 yards with this load. Oh yes air cooled wheel weights.
Steve

[country gent]

Alloy is important to get good expansion. I have 530 grn PP mould from Brooks cup base round nose. fired and recovered from a damp sand backstop at 1200 hos rhet retain round 95% of their weight and expand to just under an 1" with about 1/8" of the base showing in the mushroom on the back.

When shooting steel gongs and silhouettes all that is left if these bullets after they hit is a small disc of the base about .015 thick laying on the ground. When spotting you see a gray cloud at the impact area and a lead wash on the target most of the bullet is simply dust when it hits. Rings them like a bell and they swing or jump well too.

I would try a 20-1 bullet at 100-1200 fps see how that performs for you, it will make for a sft shooting load on the back end. And dump a lot of energy in the game

[todd9.3x57]

the 330gr gould boolit, i used to have a mold, but my son took it with him on the move from PA to NC.

www.lasc.us/FryxellExpansionOfCastHP.htm

[warren5421]

What I have knowledge of is Marlin Lever guns. I use black powder and a hard 405 gr RNFP on deer and coyotes here in Indiana. If I place the bullet in the right spot it does it's job and most times exits the animal. Most deer that don't drop only go under 50 yards. In my hunting experience expansion isn't the magic thing, shot placement is everything if the bullet is at a good speed.

[Dom]

I drive this Lyman 330 gr HP bullet at around 1300 fps. Cast from scrap WW, BHN 10.5. Will expand nicely. The HP bullets to the left in the picture.294169

[legendhunter]

Dom, those look really good!! What PC are you using?

[gc45]

With the 45-70 on deer high velocity is not inportant, 1250-1300 is plenty and gets you about the same velo as the old trapdoors and those rifles were quit substantial out to long ranges. Also, expansion is not a big deal either as the bullet is already .458 or so and makes a big hole in everything. These large bullets at origional velocities will pass through most any deer, even larger animals as well.
great looking bullets by the way..

[white eagle]

you don't need a HP to get expansion
I shot a black bear this past fall with a 350 gr
non hp boolit out of a 500 Linebaugh Keith style
point is at the velocity I had it did not need a hp to make massive terminal performance
it laid the bear out quite handily opened up the entrance hole to 3-4"
massive damage
just get your alloy, velocity and most of all accuracy lined up and you are golden

[725]

I tried those over 2000 fps 400 gr boolits and found it excessive. Too much of a good thing. I keep mine in the trap door levels and any well paced shot works. Period.

[jcourson]

One of the positives of hunting with a 45-70 in lead is that you don't have to worry about ruining a lot of meat.
You start and end with a larger hole than most calibers expand to, and it should punch through both sides of a tank with the heavier loadings.
All of this at a velocity that doesn't leave a grapefruit sized area of bloodshot meat.
As long as you don't shatter the shoulders, it is practically all edible.

[Tazman1602]

I don’t think you can go wrong with this mold. You need your alloy to be as soft as possible and without antimony, to get good expansion without pieces breaking off.

I’m on a list to be contacted when back in stock for these. Last time I did the same thing and it was only a couple of weeks before the mold was back in stock.

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-462-420-hollow-point-mold-multi-choice/


^^^^^^ I could not agree with this more,this bullet w/hollow point will whack ‘em, stack ‘em, and pack ‘em all day long. One of my favorite bullets for 45-70.

Art

[openbook]

I've been researching loads for squirrels, rabbits and grouse--also for an 1886. Already have the 153-gr collar button mold from MP Molds. So far found a lot of loads for Unique and a couple other powders, but the only suitable powder I've been able to lay hands on is Titegroup. Larry Gibson's many posts on small game loads have been immensely helpful.

[Harter66]

I have 8-9 458 moulds from 141 gr RB to the 535 gr 457132 NOE version .
Any 500 gr version at 1100 fps MV carries 1000 ftlb past 250 yd .
The Lyman 458193 405 gr , mine drops 412 a/WW and 415 with a softened alloy , is the most alloy , powder , and power level flexible bullet so far .
I expect the 45-500 FP to edge the 458193 out with its gas check .

As others have mentioned dead soft or close to it at Trapdoor levels should be enough for anything in north America short of a zoo break .......there was this ranch in Texas with a water buffalo on hand where an antitank rifle would feel a little insufficient after youve been close to one .

[Sgt H]

I have harvested a number of whitetails and one turkey with the Lyman/Gould 330 HP fired from and 1886 Browning and a Sharps in 45/70. I cast them 30/1 and load over BP or smokeless to BP velocity (1400-1450fps). I have found this bullet opens quick and violently at higher impact speeds. Two of the deer shot at very close range, 20-30 yards, had multiple exit wounds. The bullet performed better at longer ranges where velocity had dropped off. The HP is almost half the bullet length deep and I am thinking of shortening it to reduce or slow down the expansion some. I may also try some 16/1 which I believe was used for some original factory loads with this bullet. I does whack deer with authority as is though. Before someone asks if there was any turkey left to eat, yes. I shot it in the neck at about 60 yards with the Sharps and a BP load.

[BadgerShooter]

I swage a 350 grain PP bullet out of 1/2% Antimony wire. They expand beautifully and are utter smashers at full Marlin pressures. I recovered one bullet that was shot quartering. It was about .73 in dia and had lost 3 grains of weight.