.22 vs .177

[astrawn]

I have been a .22 airgun shooter and hunter for years. No probs with critters up to raccoon in size. Anyone finding that the .177 will do about the same with newer tech pellets?

Thoughts? Thanks in advance!

Drew

[dverna]

My thought is any “newer tech” pellet design that improves the .177 will be even more effective in the .22.

Curious which pellet you are thinking about.

[GhostHawk]

I have .177, .20 (5mm) and .22 air rifles and pistols.

I subscribe to the theory that .177 for feathers, .22 for fur. With the .20 dipping its toes in both pools and doing fairly well at it.

The blue streak I started with was whistling death on grackles and starlings sitting up on the power line.
I also can't think of a single cottontail in mom's flower garden that survived being spotted by me and head shot by the streak.

All that being said I was one of those who jumped on a 25$ .177 air rifle that shoots close to the speed of sound.

But you do need to compare apples to apples. My only other airgun that shoots 14.3 gr pellets over 900 fps is the Hatsan 135 Vortex QE. Compare the normal 7 gr .177 at for example 900 fps with a .22 14.3 gr pellet at 900. And I'll let you figure out which one has the energy advantage.

For shooting anything bigger than a cottontail I'd want .22. But that is my opinion, yours may be different, and just as valid.

[chutesnreloads]

No!

[ohen cepel]

If you are asking about the newer, light, alloy pellets in the .177 I am not a fan of them. They are harder (usually) than lead, to the point the skirt doesn't expand in all things so I have had some stuck in the breech of a quality air pistol. They may go wicked fast, but are very light. This likely means more noise if cracking the sound barrier, not very accurate in my testing, usually more $$ and in the end not much use to me.

Only use I have for alloy pellets is if someone is hyper worried about kids handling lead pellets I'll let them and their kid shoot a few of the alloys.

.22 almost always wins if you want to hunt with an air rifle in my mind.

The marketing hype is usually just that.

Oh, and I don't like the alloy ones in my pellet trap come time to melt that lead down.

[recumbent]

Stay with the 22

[georgerkahn]

I have .177, .20 (5mm) and .22 air rifles and pistols.

I subscribe to the theory that .177 for feathers, .22 for fur. With the .20 dipping its toes in both pools and doing fairly well at it.

The blue streak I started with was whistling death on grackles and starlings sitting up on the power line.
I also can't think of a single cottontail in mom's flower garden that survived being spotted by me and head shot by the streak.

All that being said I was one of those who jumped on a 25$ .177 air rifle that shoots close to the speed of sound.

But you do need to compare apples to apples. My only other airgun that shoots 14.3 gr pellets over 900 fps is the Hatsan 135 Vortex QE. Compare the normal 7 gr .177 at for example 900 fps with a .22 14.3 gr pellet at 900. And I'll let you figure out which one has the energy advantage.

For shooting anything bigger than a cottontail I'd want .22. But that is my opinion, yours may be different, and just as valid.

I so very much am on board with this line of thought! One of my "worries", too, is I wish to pull the trigger and see a DEAD critter. Years back we had a neighbor with a Big-box-store el cheapo springer .177 he used on squirrels and pigeons (plus ???). Regardless re my -- or anyone ;) else's' opinion -- we witnessed too many pigeons g'limping with an extended broken wing or similar; too many squirrels dragging about before they (thankfully) perished, and the like.
Recalling these are enough to have my way of thinking being to use the .22 PCP and Gas-Nitro's for critters; the .177's for target and plinking exclusively; and the .20 (Beeman P1) JUST for paper target work. Many countries/regions have maximum-joule limitations, which -- to me -- is a deciding factor. A .177 springer providing ~420-480fps performance -- regardless of projectile employed -- surely will not effectively dispatch any critter shot, if at all, often enough to be an ethical kill. Imho :).

[astrawn]

Hello, and thanks for responding. I have 3 I have been thinking about trying.

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-powershot-red-flight-penetrator-pellets-22-cal-16-7-grains?p=1019

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/fx-hybrid-slug-22-cal-22-0-grains-hollowpoint-100ct?p=1542

And

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-n-terminator-pellets-22-cal-16-36-grains-hollowpoint-200ct?p=1103

Drew

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I find the .22 to be very effective at killing cans. Can’t think of any technology that would make the .177 any better. Maybe fast twist rates and high BC heavy pellets? ;)

[ohen cepel]

What are you shooting those Pyramid sold pellets out of? I ask as I think the slugs may be too heavy for many guns except the PCPs.

Do you know what weight your rifle tends to like? If not, I would look at one of their packs with several various styles/weights in it to help narrow that down. Some of those packs are listed here;
https://www.pyramydair.com/ammo/pellets?calibers=0_22&pw=varies

Of the 3 you listed I would go with H&N if your rifle likes that weight.

[chutesnreloads]

From you original post I'd assumed you were looking to replace your 22 with a .177. Of the 3 pellets you show I only see one that comes in .177.
If you are sticking to .22, and I'd encourage you to do so if shooting critters, then absolutely what gun you're shooting the pellets from matters
likely quite a bit. The "slugs" are a relatively new thing in the small bore air gun scene and probably most .22 air guns simply will not shoot them accurately from what I've read and seen on videos. If you're interested in slugs I highly encourage you to tune in to a Youtube channel
AirArmsHuntingSA. Matt Dubber's videos are very well made, informative, and entertaining. I could watch it just for the scenery and wildlife he videos. He is a world class marksman having won multiple shooting events. If you follow the channel back a couple years or so he chronicles the air gun slug development up to present.
If you're not using a PCP that will push your pellets/slugs up to at least 900 fps my suggestion is to stick with traditional pellets. None of the hollow point pellets will expand IN CRITTERS at lower velocities. They just don't. If they shoot accurately in your gun then by all means use them. Can't kill what you can't hit.
Up to now my experience shooting squirrels in particular with "magnum" spring piston types has been to keep range at 30 yards or less.
The best killing efficiency I have found is with the wadcutter type pellet but I'd only suggest using these IF they are highly accurate from your gun. All this may be changing soon as I now own a PCP rifle. The extra velocity it seems changes everything. I've had it less than a month now
so still learning on it. I'll keep posting as I learn about it.

[georgerkahn]

Hello, and thanks for responding. I have 3 I have been thinking about trying.

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-powershot-red-flight-penetrator-pellets-22-cal-16-7-grains?p=1019

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/fx-hybrid-slug-22-cal-22-0-grains-hollowpoint-100ct?p=1542

And

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-n-terminator-pellets-22-cal-16-36-grains-hollowpoint-200ct?p=1103

Drew

Of the three you list, I have tried/shot two. To wit, the FX's which -- for me -- were a bit of a two-fold disappointment. First, at least when I purchased them they were the "new kid on the block" and quite costly. Perhaps of greater importance, they did not shoot well at all in any of the four different (2 PCP, one Nitro, and one springer) airguns I tried them in.
On the other hand, I was so happy with the H&N Terminators I purchased another tin of them. They shoot well in *my* airguns, and quite ethically and efficiently dispatch that which is aimed at!
I will add that answering your query may be similar to a "Who makes the best beer?" question; 'tis a quite subjective area. But -- re at least two of your three -- this has been my experience. As a btw, even though there appears to be a bit of a pellet shortage at present -- I had purchased two boxes of the FXs, and still have an unopened one left...
As a btw, re dispatching critters, I do very much agree with others who profess a simple, plain-Jane wadcutter is hard to beat.
geo

[dverna]

As to slugs, what I have read is that they shoot better with a different barrel than the barrels used on pellet guns. IIRC, there is a bit of "choke" on a pellet barrel and that does not work well with slugs.

[lathesmith]

.177 will never be the equal of .22 for hunting, no matter what quixotic pellet is used; there just isn't enough to work with. And as range increases, both velocity and energy fall off rapidly, even with the heaviest of .177 pellets driven at PCP (900fps+) speeds. Size-wise, a .177 is OK for grackles and smaller. Range-wise, much past 25 yards is pushing it, although with a higher-power PCP good accuracy can be had up to 50 yards or so, and adequate energy for small critters is probably still there at this extended distance. But even with a heavy pellet and PCP powerplant, a .177 is mediocre at best on rabbit-sized critters, and downright cruel at worst. Best leave the .177 for what it does best, inexpensive target-shooting, and go with a .22 + for actual hunting.
I've never had much luck, accuracy-wise, with any exotic or mixed-material pellet out of any of my .22's, either pump or PCP. Wadcutters are fine for hunting, although they tend to de-stabilize much past 30-35 yards. However, this can be a good thing in a urban environment. The round-nose profiles are just about ideal for all around use in .22, IMO, as they shoot accurately and hold good velocity even at extended ranges. And at PCP (800FPS+)velocities, they also expand pretty well too, hollow-point or no. And for hunting, the heaviest pellet that's still accurate almost always wins.

[GhostHawk]

Pigeon's are IMO not hard to kill, but they should all be head shots. If you can't consistently hit a head shot your pushing your effective range too far. Squirrels can be tougher, I have lost fox squirrels that I head shot with a .22lr and had them flop into a place where I could not find them. But it should not happen often. And there too, most should be head shots and DRT.

[clodhopper]

I have not shot any of your chosen pellets.
I have had good luck with JSB hades pellets launched around 900 fps. the little triangles on the nose kinda fold out and make three cutters spiraling through the critter as the pellet bores.
Some rifles hate them and spit them all around your aiming point.
They have become "the" load for my .25 matador.
I have shot them in .177, .22, and 25. Good but expensive.
If you can get wadcutters to group at your hunting range they are hard to beat.
The flat point delivers shock.

[David Lee Valdina]

There may be a comparison that is helpful here. Years ago it was pretty well documented that .38 Special wad cutters and similar shaped bullets killed more effectively than round nose bullets. See Ken Waters writing for examples. I would think the same would apply to pellets. David

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Now I haven't taken out the pellet rifles out of the safe for years. I have a couple RWS 54 rifles (Spring-Air), one is .177 and one is .22
I used the .177 for target plinking and that's about it. I use the .22 for pest control.

When you say, "No probs with critters up to raccoon in size"
I gotta ask, at what distance?
I can't imagine a .22 pellet taking out a coon, except maybe at point blank in the ear.
I have shot squirrels out of the trees, and if I take a head shot and they are over 25 yards away, my 22 pellet doesn't penetrate the skull, and just knocks them out, then fall to ground, and if I'm not quick with the shovel, they wake up and run away.
FYI, The RWS 54 is suppose to shoot a average weight 22 pellet about 900fps out of the muzzle.

[crappie-hunter]

Now I haven't taken out the pellet rifles out of the safe for years. I have a couple RWS 54 rifles (Spring-Air), one is .177 and one is .22
I used the .177 for target plinking and that's about it. I use the .22 for pest control.

When you say, "No probs with critters up to raccoon in size"
I gotta ask, at what distance?
I can't imagine a .22 pellet taking out a coon, except maybe at point blank in the ear.
I have shot squirrels out of the trees, and if I take a head shot and they are over 25 yards away, my 22 pellet doesn't penetrate the skull, and just knocks them out, then fall to ground, and if I'm not quick with the shovel, they wake up and run away.
FYI, The RWS 54 is suppose to shoot a average weight 22 pellet about 900fps out of the muzzle.

Now I have the same question, I recently went over to the dark side and purchased a DAR PCP air rifle in 22cal, question is at what distance will a 15.89 gr pellet going 900fps penetrate a squirrels hide? I have limited experience ,but have shot at several squirrel at more that 35 yds that acted like they were hit but ran away like someone someone corncobbed and turpentined their butt.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Now I have the same question, I recently went over to the dark side and purchased a DAR PCP air rifle in 22cal, question is at what distance will a 15.89 gr pellet going 900fps penetrate a squirrels hide? I have limited experience ,but have shot at several squirrel at more that 35 yds that acted like they were hit but ran away like someone someone corncobbed and turpentined their butt.

Well, I have a small yard, so my longest shots are 25 to 30 yds, and a 22 pellet that left the muzzle at 900fps, should penetrate the hide in a squirrels soft zone. If you hit the Squirrel's hind quarter at 35 yds, it should have pierced the skin, but won't likely kill him quickly...but would make him run in the short term. I was relaying my experience with head shots. If I am closer to a squirrel, , like 15 yds, the head shot will bust the skull.

[clodhopper]

I bought a used JSAR Raptor, the rifle has a .177 barrel with no choke suitable for slugs. The former owner tuned it for Nielsen 12.5 grain slugs.
I bought Nielsen 15 grain hollow point slugs.
I took it to the rifle range the bottle held 4500 psi. Set up the chronograph and posted a target at 100 yards. Bipod with rear sandbag, concrete bench with steel pipe legs poured into concrete slab.
Velocity 980 fps, when velocity fell to 935 the rifle had fired 104 shots.
I let my grandson and a couple of guys at the range fire some.
I fired about 60 at the same aiming point in three sessions in between letting others shoot. The impact area was four or so inches low and the aiming point stayed crisp and visible.
My group of 60 or so shots was about 1.75 inches was fired with changing light and wind conditions.

Hollow point expansion tests show slugs opening to .22 in water filled milk jugs at 40 yards. and almost like .177 wadcutter at 80 yards.

[chutesnreloads]

Now I have the same question, I recently went over to the dark side and purchased a DAR PCP air rifle in 22cal, question is at what distance will a 15.89 gr pellet going 900fps penetrate a squirrels hide? I have limited experience ,but have shot at several squirrel at more that 35 yds that acted like they were hit but ran away like someone someone corncobbed and turpentined their butt.

Keeping in mind the pellet's rainbow trajectory, at 900 fps I'd say you can kill any squirrel as far as you can RELIABLY hit the kill zone.
I've killed uncountable squirrels in my yard with 14 grain pellets at between 600-700 fps.
The RWS 54 that won't penetrate a squirrel skull at 25 yards probably needs some maintenance getting back into its true potential.

[dverna]

Now I have the same question, I recently went over to the dark side and purchased a DAR PCP air rifle in 22cal, question is at what distance will a 15.89 gr pellet going 900fps penetrate a squirrels hide? I have limited experience ,but have shot at several squirrel at more that 35 yds that acted like they were hit but ran away like someone someone corncobbed and turpentined their butt.

I read an article on this question. To kill a squirrel requires 9 for into the lethal area...about a 1” circle.

I will assume you are using the JSB 15.89. At a MV of 900 fps there is over 18 fpe at 50 yards. I use a 50 yard zero and maximum trajectory is .95” at 30 yards. At 60 yards I am 1.5” low.

It is likely you are not hitting the kill zone, as the pellet and gun are capable. Errors in range and wind drift are the usual culprits. BTW, if you misread the wind by 5 mph at 50 yards, it moves that pellet 1.8”.

I plan to hunt with my PCP’s this year but will limit my range to 50 yards.

[crappie-hunter]

I read an article on this question. To kill a squirrel requires 9 for into the lethal area...about a 1” circle.

I will assume you are using the JSB 15.89. At a MV of 900 fps there is over 18 fpe at 50 yards. I use a 50 yard zero and maximum trajectory is .95” at 30 yards. At 60 yards I am 1.5” low.

It is likely you are not hitting the kill zone, as the pellet and gun are capable. Errors in range and wind drift are the usual culprits. BTW, if you misread the wind by 5 mph at 50 yards, it moves that pellet 1.8”.

I plan to hunt with my PCP’s this year but will limit my range to 50 yards.

I plan on going to 25cal as soon as the DAR becomes available, I understand perfectly about the kill zone and shot placement, question now is will the 25cal be a more effective killer provided the shot placement where it should be? There is a you tube video on killing hogs with a 25 with head shots, another of killing a coyote at 65yds with a 25 shot was behind front shoulder appeared to be a lung shot, coyote ran guide a distance. I just question if the videos are the normal performance one can expect, or once in a while maybe for advertising purposes only?…..

I haven’t given up on the 22 for squirrel hunting yet because I got the gun late in the season and have limited experience so far.

[dverna]

I plan on going to 25cal as soon as the DAR becomes available, I understand perfectly about the kill zone and shot placement, question now is will the 25cal be a more effective killer provided the shot placement where it should be? There is a you tube video on killing hogs with a 25 with head shots, another of killing a coyote at 65yds with a 25 shot was behind front shoulder appeared to be a lung shot, coyote ran guide a distance. I just question if the videos are the normal performance one can expect, or once in a while maybe for advertising purposes only?…..

I haven’t given up on the 22 for squirrel hunting yet because I got the gun late in the season and have limited experience so far.

The .25 will definitely hit harder and it will be less affected by wind drift. I suggest going to another forum...GateWay to Airguns, to get input from guys who are into airguns.

I only started getting serious about them last year and like I said have not hunted with then yet. Here is an article that may be of interest:

https://www.airgundepot.com/vault/articles/basic-airgun-hunting-guidelines/

[chutesnreloads]

Ditto what Don said.
I wouldn't shoot any hog with a .25 that isn't a powder burner. I know a .22LR will kill hogs. I've done it more than once, HOWEVER
I highly suggest it NOT be done unless you don't plan to bring home meat. Years ago I may have went into some thick bush that a injured hog will head for. I'm a bit older and wiser now

[Capt Keith]

I have both, and have done quite a bit of testing with newer pellets. I think the .177 is great for squirrels, but anything bigger you still want to stay with the .22.