12 ga. Dethmax loads

[1-2-THE DOME]

Hello everyone. It has been about 7 years since I posted anything.

I got a .600 round ball mold a couple of years ago and finally cast a bunch of them.

Here is my recipe:

-Remington gun club hull

-CCI primer

-Ballistic Products 12 ga. Flex seal wad FS12

-6 water dropped 00 buck pellets from the Lee mold

-1 water dropped .600 round ball

-27 gr. Longshot

-nitro card NC12L from ballistic products

The lead weighs 1.4 oz. so I used load data from 1.5oz loads. I tried up to 30gr. , it was way too spicy. No idea on pressure. I do not recommend going beyond 28 gr.



After adding powder and wad, put the buckshot in, set the ball right on top of the buckshot. Put the nitro card on top of the ball, and cram it down with the press. The nitro card acts as a patch for the undersized ball.

It shoots pretty tight groups, because the buckshot drafts the ball for a fair distance before spreading. At 40 yards I was getting about 24" of spread. The ball was consistently in the middle of the pattern.

Recoil is within reason.

pretty fun for plinking around, and will kill anything big enough to die.

[fastdadio]

Might be able to tighten it up by adding buffer to the buck.....

[1-2-THE DOME]

Sounds fun. Right on.

Indeed.

[1-2-THE DOME]

Might be able to tighten it up by adding buffer to the buck.....

For sure, also, I have made shells with 6 00 buck and a 1 oz foster slug, it keeps a much tighter pattern, but is slow, lots of recoil and it actually has too tight of a pattern for me, the new "dethmax" lol loads are just right for what I wanted.

The other load I am contemplating is 3 00 pellets, one .600 ball and 1/2 oz of #5 birdshot. I have not attempted that yet, but it might be fun.

[faustus]

...

The other load I am contemplating is 3 00 pellets, one .600 ball and 1/2 oz of #5 birdshot. I have not attempted that yet, but it might be fun.

This thread reminds me of my Buck & Ball experiements:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?339590-Buck-amp-Ball-Once-again

Also I tried birdshot under a slug once ..... and this is what happened.

Link (http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Slug_and_Shot_No_1.jpg)
http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Slug_and_Shot_No_1.jpg

Link (http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Result_Slug_and_Shot_No_1.jpg)
http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Result_Slug_and_Shot_No_1.jpg

[DanishM1Garand]

This thread reminds me of my Buck & Ball experiements:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?339590-Buck-amp-Ball-Once-again

Also I tried birdshot under a slug once ..... and this is what happened.

http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Slug_and_Shot_No_1.jpg

http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Result_Slug_and_Shot_No_1.jpg

Yikes!

[Cap'n Morgan]

I had a single brand of hulls stripping part of the wall when reloaded with slugs with a fairly solid polyethylene wad.
It would happen with every single round, and like Faustus suggest, the friction between wad and hull from compressing of the wad was probably the culprit.

Some of the cheaper target shooting shotshells will also strip part of the start crimp from time to time.

[1-2-THE DOME]

This thread reminds me of my Buck & Ball experiements:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?339590-Buck-amp-Ball-Once-again

Also I tried birdshot under a slug once ..... and this is what happened.

Link (http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Slug_and_Shot_No_1.jpg)
http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Slug_and_Shot_No_1.jpg

Link (http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Result_Slug_and_Shot_No_1.jpg)
http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Result_Slug_and_Shot_No_1.jpg

I am just going to guess that that nitro card you used for the bottom of the wad did not seal, and hot gasses went around and up through the shot, and melted the side of the hull. Use the ballistic products flex seal wads, they really work, I doubt you would be able to get that much payload in there though.

[1-2-THE DOME]

Based on the imprint of the shot on the plastic, lots of heat had to be there. I would add that the lead fouling also indicates that the shot was being blowtorched.

[faustus]

I am just going to guess that that nitro card you used for the bottom of the wad did not seal, and hot gasses went around and up through the shot, and melted the side of the hull. Use the ballistic products flex seal wads, they really work, I doubt you would be able to get that much payload in there though.

There was a X12X gas seal beneath the nitro card ..... payload was 2oz ....

[1-2-THE DOME]

Hmm, could be the bulging shot, definitely looks like a lot of heat involved.

[megasupermagnum]

Hmm, could be the bulging shot, definitely looks like a lot of heat involved.

There was no heat involved. Both Festus and Cap'n got it right. Setback is forcing the shot into the hull. This happens every single time a shell is fired. Most people load with a plastic wad, so the shot sets into that, just pick up any wad off a range. Every single one will look just like that. In this case the shot pushed into the hull so hard the plastic ripped before the shot moved forward, that's all that happened. This can be repeated on demand. Most often you see this happen with buckshot, especially with buffer involved. Buffer grips a shell really hard.

[longbow]

A couple of comments...

First, that crimp looks awfully deep! A deep crimp can raise pressure dramatically! If you haven't seen it read here (scroll about 1/2 way through to find effect of crimp depth):

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

Second, if you used 2 oz. shot load data the shot shouldn't see any more compression than it would pushing an ounce of shot on top but if the recipe used a shotcup that might make the difference as the shot would be pressing into shotcup petals not hull wall. Possibly a Teflon or mylar wrap would solve the hull damage?

Just a couple of thoughts.

Longbow

[centershot]

MSM nailed it! Any shot load compresses radially, exerting pressure against the walls of whatever it is contained in. Lots of guys worry about subbing a round ball for a shot load of equal weight because they don't realize the RB won't have the radial pressure. If that load had the shot loaded at the front of the load, that result would not have happened.

[faustus]

MSM nailed it! Any shot load compresses radially, exerting pressure against the walls of whatever it is contained in. Lots of guys worry about subbing a round ball for a shot load of equal weight because they don't realize the RB won't have the radial pressure. If that load had the shot loaded at the front of the load, that result would not have happened.

Thanks for confirming my understanding everyone .... much appreciated!!!!!

And yes, that was my input for 1-2-THE DOME, ... if you want to play with shot and slugs or round balls in one load .... then maybe you want to load the shot on top of the slug or round ball and spare yourself some headaches ....... :)

I have given up on the shot with slug load .... but I learned something important while experimenting with it .... If I had to do it again ... I would place the shot on top of the slug and inside a shot cup ... if possible .... :)

The problem with those loads is hull space .... how do you get all those ounces of lead and wads in there .... and get a decent crimp ....?


http://kalypso.net/temp/other/Slug_and_Shot_No2.jpg

(Disclaimer: I never shot that load ... I loaded it one winter .... and to be tested in the spring ... and after my failed attempt of shot under a slug .... and then got sidetracked by another project and lost interest in the shot and slug load. Those rounds are probably still sitting somewhere in my ammo cabinet together with a whole bunch of other unfired test rounds .... lol)

[megasupermagnum]

One simple thing you can do to fix that is use a mylar wrap around the shot. It won't tear the hull anymore, but I have heard it can slightly raise pressure. I doubt it's that terribly much, and I've done it myself without issue. You can use the thin .004" stuff from Precision Reloading, and hulls space is barely effected.

[centershot]

faustus, if you really want to load combo loads like that, check out the "Buck & Ball" threads. There's good, safe, information available in those threads.

[faustus]

faustus, if you really want to load combo loads like that, check out the "Buck & Ball" threads. There's good, safe, information available in those threads.

Centershot, I am done with slug and shot loads and learned my lesson ..... and I developed my "Buck & Ball" load .... I am good ... :)

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?339590-Buck-amp-Ball-Once-again

But 1-2-THE DOME said he wants to play further with those loads .....

[1-2-THE DOME]

Maybe not, I am pretty dang happy with these, just made a whole bunch of them, shot a bunch yesterday, and It is now my go to shotshell. It really tears stuff up. It is way way better than the slug and buck loads I did before, I need to chrono them, I know they are supersonic. The 1 oz. foster with 6 00 buck load I was doing was 1050 fps. The deathmax feels like 1250-1300, which seems to cause quite a bit more general mayhem on random crap laying around at the range.

[Blood Trail]

I was successful in recreating Winchester’s PDX slug/3 pellet buck shot load. Patterning just like the factory load at 10 yards. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220126/0b457e3c9c409541de9b6ae94cca7513.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220126/cb08d21213ef0e502ba8076ba91ed8c5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220126/24d908cb732bb83044664eb3f6dac57f.jpg


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