CCI small pistol magnum primers is and AR 223?

[15meter]

Am I going to cause the downfall of Western Civilization if I use CCI small magnum pistol primers? I've got 1000+ sitting on the shelf looking for a use. My google-fu is not working like it used to on this site.

I know I've read discussions on this subject in the past and believe I have read that it is an accepted practice. Looking for confirmation. Got a buddy getting back into shooting and wants to dig out his reloading stuff again.

If this works, the primer issue is solved at least for the short term.

I don't load any mag pistol stuff. Small rifle for me consists of the 22 Hornet, 204 Ruger, 221 Fireball.

It would be nice to find a use for these primers.


I hate autocorrect.

[badguybuster]

Youll need to watch out for punctured primers. I tried them in some 300AAC loads in my AR and ended up pulling the rounds apart because of it

[Outer Rondacker]

I tried 15 for blanks for my 223 golf ball launcher and ended up pulling 13. Used them in a RAR. Give it a try but only a try to not have to pull a bunch. Thats my advice.

[johnsonian09]

Not worth the effort

I also tried cci pistol primers for scavenging reloading 223/300blackout.


Only loads I found to be effective with were cat sneeze loads.

They didn't like working with h110 for 300acc with the larger case volume. They didn't puncture but they did fail to ignite the charge a number of times

They didn't like working for 223. That rifle punctured the primers repeatedly.

They did like a working with light bullseye/ loads as long as I added cotton balls to keep the powder towards the back of the case. Honestly not worth the effort unless you have a special purpose for the quiet loads. Sounds like a airgun. just shooting 80 grain bullets sub 1000fps. But very inaccurate as that 30 carbine bullet didn't match the twist rate. And heavier bullets would squib

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[charlie b]

I used some in my bolt gun. 77gn SMK's and Varget powder. They worked well for me and velocity was same as Rem bench rest primers.

[BigAlofPa.]

I use Large pistol for cast data loads in rifle. I have not tried small pistol in .223. I do use small rifle in pistol loads though.

[beshears]

I would be afraid of a slam fire in a AR

[Ford SD]

I will not use the CCI 400 in any jacketed 223/556 load, or J 300 BO because of Very flat primers

Yes I have used the cci 400 in lower presure Cast 223/556 load, or cast 300 BO loads... but not with mid or top end cast loads
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From older internet data..... So only for ref only ....

Primers recommended for use in .223 Rem/5.56 semiautomatic rifle loads:

CCI #41, 450, BR4 (#41 & 450 good with ball powder)
Federal 205, 205M
Remington 7 1/2 BR (good with ball powder)
Winchester WSR (good with ball powder)
Wolf SRM (good with ball powder)
Wolf SR223 (hotter than SRM - great with ball powder)

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Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine. See Note 1 at the bottom of the page
CCI BR4 - match primer with a thicker .025" cup.
Federal 205 - Mil-Spec cup thickness according to Federal - okay for 5.56mm. .0225" cup thickness.
Federal 205M - same as the 205 but the match version.
Magtech PR-SR - .025" cup thickness (not much feedback yet on this new primer as to AR15 suitability but with the same cup thickness as the Rem 7 1/2 it looks good so far)
Remington 6 ½ - thin .020" cup, intended for older, lower pressure rounds Remington says do not use for the .223 Rem or other similar pressure rounds. Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.
Remington 7 ½ BR - A match or "bench rest" primer. Lyman & Nosler classify this primer as a Standard. Remington says the compound is the same as the 6 1/2 but with a thicker .025" cup.
RWS 4033
Winchester WSR - some piercing issues noted when changed from silver to brass cup. Cup thickness is a bit thinner at .021". Most say they are good to go for the AR15 despite that, probably because of the hardness of the cup. Some feel they are less resistant to higher pressures.
Wolf/Tula Small Rifle SR #KVB-223 - soft, sensitive copper cup, not recommended for AR15/military rifle use or high pressure rounds.


CCI 400 550 primer spm sr
According to Speer/CCI Technical Services - Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size. Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness. Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound. They can be used interchangeably.

[Loudenboomer]

CCI 400 550 (small rifle and small pistol magnum) primers as stated above are identical. I use them interchangeably. Many times pricing and availability makes CCI small pistol Magnum primers a sleeper deal. Not the best AR primer though.

[MUSTANG]

Trade with someone in your area for Small Rifle Primers. Some AR-s can have heavy strike firing pins which is what several above have warned against.

[15meter]

I've got a fair number of small rifle primers, forgot to list 30 carbine. Looks like a the small pistol mag primers may be a good candidate for the 30.

They won't sit lonely and abandoned on the shelf for long.

Thanks for the advice.

[farmbif]

I would think 30-40000 psi would be ok but not 40-60000 psi. several years back someone that said that they worked at cci making primers wrote that the cci small magnum pistol primers were the exact same thing as cci small rifle primer . I'm not an expert and anyone can write anything on the internet. maybe someone who knows the ins and outs of this web site can find that old thread. for 22 hornet I have a special box of Remington 6 1/2 and sometimes I use them in 25-20. I guess its was not so stupid years ago when I had lots of cash in pocket but still gritted my teeth when I had to shell out $30 for 1000 primers but bought all the different sizes and powers and brands for ability to load as many as I ever wanted to of just about anything.

[psweigle]

I have used small pistol magnums in 223 for a single shot rifle ONLY! It works, but I wouldn't recommend it. I have read in various other places where cci packages small rifle primers in the spm boxes and people were complaining about light strikes. However, I myself have not asked cci about this. I use small rifle primers in my 357 magnum and 327 and 32 h&r magnum loads with zero issues. I see no need for ME to buy small pistol magnums anymore. The 223 loads I shot that had the small pistol magnum primers in didn't show any problems. The velocity spread was no different than it was with small rifle primers. Fired primers looked the same. None hade holes in, or appeared to be close to it either. I guess I should add it was a 55gr jacketed soft point, with a near starting load of reloaded 10x. Extremely accurate.

[Ed_Shot]

I've started using CCI 550's with my cast boolit (130~200 gr) 300 BO super loads using Rx7 and W296. Fired primers look exactly the same as SR type. No difference in performance either. I save the SR's for 223.

[15meter]

Time to thread hi-jack my own thread, bought some #41 primers for loading this AR.

I have a bunch of commercial brass, no brainer there, just load as normal.

The question is concerning the bigger pile of LC with crimped in primers. Is it necessary to swage the crimp out of the primer pocket? I tried 1, the primer came out with no problem. The #41 seemed to seat with minimal problem. Not as nice as the R-P brass that I had just done, but really not bad. If I had not be conscious of the possibility of a problem, not sure I would have noticed.

I have tried this with LR in 30-06 and primer looked really bad from the extra oompf it took to seat the primer.

I've also ended up with a bit on the loose side primer pockets using an RCBS primer pocket swage on HXP 303 brass.

Don't want loose primer pockets, but would like reasonably presentable primers, suspect ignition will be more consistent.

So am I bearding the lion in his den by considering just sizing/repriming the LC brass?

Or over-thinking the catastrophe that won't happen?

[charlie b]

I ream the pockets with proper tool. Works well. Yours is the first I've seen about oversize pockets with a swage.

Your experience with the .30-06 is what I would expect. Besides a lot of force needed I'd be concerned that the primer might be a little 'wonky' in the pocket after that kind of operation. The extra force can also cause a primer to go off. I've had that happen more than once when failing to inspect cases well enough. Yes, I did not learn after the first one. :)

As you say, consistent ignition is the key and removing the crimp is the way to get there.

[15meter]

Last night I went back out to the shed and loaded 20 rounds of once fired R-P to get a baseline. Loaded exactly as I expected. They were loaded on a Dillon 550b with standard Redding dies.

Next I loaded 20 rounds of LC, changing nothing. Took a little more effort seating the primers but nothing drastic. Presentable rounds with some having slightly deformed primers in comparison to the R-P's.

Pulled the Dillon on the bench and mounted a Rockchucker. Deprimed 20 more LC with a universal deprime die.

First ten, I used an RCBS primer pocket swage. I wiped each primer pocket with a dab of Imperial wax on a Q-Tip prior to swaging. The Imperial seems to make the process work better.

Next 10, I used a Sinclair carbide primer pocket uniformer.

Seated primers in all 20 on the Rockchucker, the swaged pockets had the primers go in spooky easy. As in I'm concerned about the primers staying in if handled roughly or fired in a semi-auto.

But typing this I realized I didn't wipe out the wax. May have to try a handful more to see it that has an effect.

The "uniformed" pocket cases were difficult to seat a primer, as in taking a good bump on the Rockchucker handle to get them seated. Did not expect that, almost appears as the Dillon has more leverage then the Rockchucker.

Going to have to prep a handful more with the uniformer and see if they seat better or worse on the Dillon than the Rockchucker.

At this point I'm leaning towards just ignoring the crimp and loading them normally.

Haven't tried to blow myself up yet this week.

And this may have to get put on the back burner,:bigsmyl2: we've got ice:bigsmyl2:

[15meter]

I ream the pockets with proper tool. Works well. Yours is the first I've seen about oversize pockets with a swage.

Your experience with the .30-06 is what I would expect. Besides a lot of force needed I'd be concerned that the primer might be a little 'wonky' in the pocket after that kind of operation. The extra force can also cause a primer to go off. I've had that happen more than once when failing to inspect cases well enough. Yes, I did not learn after the first one. :)

As you say, consistent ignition is the key and removing the crimp is the way to get there.

The loose primers were on HXP 303 British cases, the primers were staked in with 3 distinct punches around the primer pocket. I suspect the pocket itself was on the large side to assist in assembly and they were depending on the heavy staking to hold the primer in.

[charlie b]

That might be a good assumption. I've only dealt with the 'ring' crimps.