Need 1911 advice; cost of upgrades?

[Idaho45guy]

My dad gifted me a Colt M1991A1 he bought over 20 years ago to customize. My only other 1911 is a Remington R1 Limited in .40 S&W and is a pretty loaded pistol and needs nothing to excel in it's role as a range toy.

But, this 1911 is supposed to be a barbecue gun and needs some more work.

So far, it looks like he had the slide smoothed and polished with some gold inlay done. The frame also has some light polishing done. He had custom grips made out of hippo ivory with the USMC logo added. Rear sight is a Bo-Mar.

Barrel is also bare and does not look like the standard M1991A1 offering. The hammer looks like it was polished or upgraded.

He claims it has never been fired, but when I cleaned it, there was quite a bit of powder residue removed. It came with one genuine Colt 7-round magazine and two cheap copies.

So, I'd like to upgrade the trigger, hammer, and get some more good magazines.

I'm pretty sure that upgrading parts on a 1911 is not like on a Glock and you have to pay a gunsmith to install and hand-fit pretty much everything.

Any idea on suggestions for decent custom parts and a rough estimate what a gunsmith should charge to install them?

Here is the pistol in current form.

293812

293813

[badguybuster]

Look at the Nighthawk DTS trigger system, it drop in but includes everything already pinned together. I put one im my Springfield TRP, fantastic. Wilson 47D mags

Alex at TenRing Precision has a pretty fair turn around time if you want a more traditional job. His prices and work are very very competitive.

[badguybuster]

Might I also suggest a Stan Chen SI One Piece Mainspring/Magwell?

[badwolf]

Ed brown was running a magazine trade in a while back. Excellent mags.

[Remiel]

You can do those upgrades depending on what you want and who you get parts from, the trigger and hammer , as long as a previous trigger/sear job hasn't been done before is pretty straightforward. As far as mags, Wilson combat or chip McCormack is who I use,

Now are you looking at "drop in" or "fitted" parts? And what tools do you have. I recommend watching a few you tube videos on modifying the 1911 first before buying anything, I recommend mosin virus, he has multiple custom builds.

Also I would shoot it first to see how it shoots first before changing it.

I am also in the process of building a custom 1911(in 10mm), just waiting for parts https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211230/182dfde3b4d9f067d6707904c6d69645.jpg

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[contender1]

There are a LOT of 1911 custom gunsmiths,, as well as many different options out there. USPSA shooters have been fine tuning the 1911 for decades. Bob Brazos (Brazos Customs) has some excellent stuff, AND he writes for the USPSA monthly magazine on gunsmithing. Down to earth & a tom of good info. I've gotten parts form him that were top quality,, well performing & competition ready,,, (meaning dependable.)
Magazines,, I know for a fact that the Chip McCormick mags are excellent. ( I have over 30 of them.)
Prices can be all over the map. It all depends on what you seek as to how much you will pay. Also,, it depends upon whom you choose for the work.

[Tazman1602]

I have had VERY good luck with Wilson Combat hammer and sear in all my 1911’s. I’ve built these for 30 years and it just takes some patience and maybe a YouTube video (didn’t have those back in the day…) or watch Bob Dunlop on one of the AGI videos.

—— I’ve also done stuff like full length recoil guides etc and have some REALLY accurate 1911’s but remember, John Browning made them “rattlee “ on purpose.

The more you tightened them up, the less forgiving they’re going to be if dunked in mud — which would be fighting words if you did that for to any of my”tight” 45’s…….I also have an oldie that WILL fire every time if dunked in mud….

Never did buy into the shoot twice theory…..

Art

[Mytmousemalibu]

EGW makes some really nice parts for 1911's. My Atlas built 2011 has EGW ignition parts in it and it is fantastic.

[Thumbcocker]

Sweet pistol. I agree shoot it first.

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[Bigslug]

Colt is still using forged guts, so I wouldn't ditch the hammer, sear, or disconnector lightly. If the trigger pull is somwhere between 4.5 and 6 pounds, I'd leave it be. If the feel is gritty or creepy, I'd wait on replacing those parts until your gunsmith verifies that the trigger shoe or bow aren't binding in their track somewhere

The plastic-shoed trigger I'd replace with a Grieder Precision. Though I have big hands, I prefer the shorter-reach M1911-A1 spec as it lets me get the pad of my finger 90 degrees perpendicular to the line of the trigger's travel - YMMV. If you can find a blued steel shoe (good luck) or black anodized aluminum, it might look better on that gun than the Grieder's matte aluminum, but its a good unit mechanically.

I'd also replace the plastic mainspring housing with a steel one from Smith & Alexander. They do them with or without mag funnels, and with wide or narrow mag funnels to match standard or low profile thin grip/bushing combinations. I'm a 1911-A1/arched/WWII mainspring housing spec kind of guy (your WWI flat unit points the gun in the dirt for me). Again, YMMV

I install Cylinder and Slide's GI spec recoil spring plug on all my "new era" .45's. It's got the little cut stamped into it that allows you to thread it onto the end of the recoil spring, preventing it from "going orbital"

A Colt barrel is going to be marked, and the 1991 and later guns have a pretty distinctive feed ramp. Going by the Bo Mar sights, I'd guess your dad was trying to go the Gold Cup route, so he may have had some target grade fitting done on the barrel and bushing.

The large safety, combat hammer, and bumped grip safety treatment is a personal choice. Those were not allowed in NRA and CMP Bullseye matches until fairly recently. Nice upgrades if you're building a pure combat gun, which this isn't. You have a nice vintage look, so I'd probably leave those, and the magazine funnel mainspring housing, off.

10-8 Precision and Hilton Yam would be worth talking to. He was heavily involved with the FBI's Springfield Custom HRT guns and knows his way around the platform.

[Larry Gibson]

Since it was your dad's, and he had the work done I'd suggest leaving the M1911 just the way it is. It is a family heirloom. If you want a shooter then go get one that fits your fancy. Someday, if you alter that handgun of your dad's, you will regret it.

[Dan Cash]

What about the gun in its present form is unsatisfactory? It looks like it has all the goodi9es needed to make it a beautiful combat weapon.

[JimB..]

Don’t salt your food before you taste it.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd be reluctant to do much modifying too.
I'd shoot it some, but not carry it daily.
If nothing else, just holster wear can be hard on them.

If your Dad was happy with it the way it is---- it's probably for good reasons.
He might not have fired it, but the gunsmith that did the work on it probably shot it a few times to test it.

[gwpercle]

I would shoot it ... a good bit ...
If it needs a trigger job / reliability package / custom tuned magazines (tuned to your gun)

My First Choice ... www.clarkcustomguns.com
Call Clark's and talk to them about what to do and cost ... I can't tell you .

Don't do a thing to the exterior ... It's AWESOME ... just like it is !!!
And don't change the sights ... they are Super Cool !

[reddog81]

A replacement trigger can run anywhere from $20 to $50 or more. Ideally the new trigger will be slightly larger than the old one and require a bit of fitting, but it's a pretty easy process.
When replacing the hammer, I have done hammer and sear combos and they have worked without fitting, but my experience is limited to one gun I put together myself and and another older Colt.

If you're planning on shooting the gun, I'd shoot it some before making any changes. It's a good idea to get a baseline if/how it functions before you start fiddling with stuff.

[TNsailorman]

Since it was you Dad's gun, it is a family heirloom and as such I would not change it. I am with Larry on this, if yo want a shooter, there are plenty on the market to choose from and good ones to boot. You can buy one from a standard shooter to a full blown custom on the 1911 platform. I have owned several and they are still the best pistol on the market in my estimation. Course I am prejudiced on the subject from experience in a lifetime of shooting. james

[DougGuy]

I love it! I'm with Larry Gibson, leave it as is. Personally, I like a long trigger shoe. Check. That one already has it. See if it's steel or nylon. The weight of the trigger shoe can make a 1911 unsafe IF you have a real light trigger job on it. Also, KUDOS to your dad for not having the rear of the frame shaved and a beavertail installed. I have had both, and the stock GI grip safety EXACTLY like the one on yours is what I use. The gun doesn't sit any lower in your hand.

I like the wide spur hammers of the early WWII years, I try and find milsurp hammers with the correct late 1930s to early wartime checkering. The grips are beautifully done although I would opt for a different pair to wear to the range.

There is an aftermarket barrel link made by Lippard that does tighten up the barrel fitment when the gun goes into battery, it requires a small milling operation done in the spring tunnel but is a good investment as it works pretty good. Others will argue a proper fitted barrel needs no Lippard link, yada yada, but even with a well fitted barrel the link DOES WORK as advertised.

I personally like the Briley barrel bushing, these are the cat's meow for the muzzle end of the slide.

And there is the Accu-rail slide to frame fitment that uses rods fitted into the frame and slide that REALLY snugs up the slide to frame fit, I have had this on one of my builds and they are THE CADILLAC of perfect slide to frame fit! Can we say SMOOOOOOOOOOOTH here? Yes!

Here is the last Commander I built, Colt slide on Auto Ordnance lower. Note the hammer and grip safety and long trigger. This one is a real sweetheart.

293822 293823

[1006]

You could leave it as is, on the outside. But, get a trigger job then shoot it to see how well she shoots. I like the retro look of the GI hammer and grip safety. Then, if needed, get a new barrel and bushing professionally installed. I prefer Bar-Sto barrels, but Kart is also good. Bar-Sto barrels are stainless. Both are accurate if installed correctly.

If it was my only 1911, I would want more, but given you have the R1……

[Idaho45guy]

What about the gun in its present form is unsatisfactory? It looks like it has all the goodi9es needed to make it a beautiful combat weapon.

That's a very subjective thing and I don't judge people for wanting to tailor a pistol more to their liking. Dad wasn't done customizing it and gave it to me so I could continue making it my own.

While the grips are very cool looking, the eagle wings cut into my palm just holding the gun. I imagine shooting it with those grips will be quite unpleasant.

Also, the trigger is ugly, and the grip safety needs the extended beavertail to really feel perfect in my hand, like my other 1911.

Any mods I do will be in respect to the one's he started and I will used polished blued parts in deference to his tastes. My other 1911 is a tactical range toy. This one will be an attractive but functional shooter.

[smithnframe]

Looks pretty fine as it is!

[Mk42gunner]

Its been so long since I did anything to a 1911, I have no idea of what prices for parts or labor are these days.

The good thing is your dad already put a flat mainspring housing on it, so you shouldn't get hammer bite.

The hard part about making it match your other 1911 is there have been a lot of different beavertail grip safeties made, and contrary to popular belief, they don't all feel the same. Good luck finding one that matches your present one.

I'd get rid of the EGA on the grip panels; but then I'm a sailor, not a Marine.

Robert

[Plate plinker]

Since it was your dad's, and he had the work done I'd suggest leaving the M1911 just the way it is. It is a family heirloom. If you want a shooter then go get one that fits your fancy. Someday, if you alter that handgun of your dad's, you will regret it.

Spot on. Why start down a path like this? Go buy a dan Wesson 1911 in 45ACP, you can beat on that all day long.

[samari46]

DougGuy, you are probably the only one whom I have seen to mention anything about the Accu-rail rods in just about any post related to a 1911 or 1911A1. Bought a accurized Springfield Armory 1911A1 bunch of years ago and had the rods fitted to the frame. Slide feels like the rails are greased and no side play.Even got a spare set of rods. Lost count on how many rounds it has shot, but the slide is as tight as when I bought it. Happy New Year. Frank

[Rick R]

Classy looking gun!

I like the look of the hammer and grip safety but some are prone to getting bitten and that’s not fun. The trigger just looks “off” from the rest of the gun.

Personally I’d find a trigger I liked and shoot it a while. If that didn’t suit me I’d take it to Novak’s shop for the guys there to massage.

Edit to add, I’d get a set of VZ Grips in Black Cherry for carry/shooting
https://vzgrips.com/products/vz-320-full-size-1911-grips.html

[Ithaca Gunner]

With the beaver tail grip safety metal has to be removed and the safety fitted which means either touch up bluing or a complete frame reblue and a new Commander type hammer fitted, (something to consider). You could get a ''drop in'' safety, but they leave an ugly gap. Through trial and error I found a straight main spring housing along with a short trigger suits me best, your hands and grip may be different, try some combinations and see what you like best.

Grips are pretty much whatever you like and feel comfortable with. I would stay away from any MIM, (injection molded) parts on it and go with forged and polished steel, maybe add an extended slide stop and a Briley barrel bushing. Ed Brown and Wilson Combat both offer MIM and forged steel parts, the price is about double for forged, (+/-) over MIM on average.

[charlie b]

The 1911 I got from my dad was also a project gun. I did work on it myself until I decided to use it for daily carry. Then I had a gunsmith go through it. New Barsto barrel and bushing (fitted), recoil spring, beavertail safety, hammer, sear, trigger, mainspring and new sights front and rear. Cost was around $400 about 15 yrs ago. Grips are a choice. I liked the Pachmeyers.

Shooting Star mags are my choice for the 1911. Cost is good and they have all been reliable for me. I used to use GI mags. Buy a bunch cheap and toss the ones that don't work.

FWIW, my son-in-law has the pistol now.

[Idaho45guy]

Shot it today and created a video review...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4yB9B6IS4k

[Thumbcocker]

Really like the sights. I think I would change out the plastic trigger.

FWIW I have never seen anything in .45 acp that didn't like Lyman 452460's with 231.

[charlie b]

Congratulations. I think I'd leave it the way it is :)

[DougGuy]

Ain't nothing wrong with those groups at all. With basically a stock 1911A1, my goal is to keep all 7 or 8 rounds on a 6" paper saucer at 50yds. Most "as issued" WWII era GI pistols will do that.

[Forrest r]

Interesting 1911, I'd find a good smith in your area if possible.

More often than not people that do their own work start with a $500 1911, buy $300 worth of aftermarket parts & end up with a $400 custom 1911.

Watching the video, it looks like that 1911 is springing.

[jrayborn]

Forrest, I'd sure be interested and appreciate learning what it is that you call springing? Just never heard of it before and like to learn is all.

[El Bibliotecario]

I see most of the proposed upgrades as unnecessary and in some cases UGLY...but it's not my pistol, and you should do whatever makes you feel good--or can afford. If the grips are uncomfortable, that's a reasonable change. As for 'good' magazines, the owner of Cylinder and Slide once told me that in his experience Colt factory magazines were as good as any of the premium brands.

[45workhorse]

My understanding of Barbecue gun is, one of a kind gun that you only bring out to show it off! Plus, it belonged to your dad! Me personally I would not change anything.
You have one to shoot and one to admire and remember your Dad. The best of both worlds.

(My opinion and two dollars might get you a cup of coffee someplace!)

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I always wanted one of those Yavapi sear jigs brownell's sells for putting the finishing touches on the sear. Had pretty good luck just free handing it on a hard stone over the years. The hammer hook is the hardest part to deal with.

[Forrest r]

Forrest, I'd sure be interested and appreciate learning what it is that you call springing? Just never heard of it before and like to learn is all.

Springing:
It's when the bbl bushing is forcing the bbl one direction and the bbl link is forcing the bbl in a different direction. This causes tension in the middle of the bbl creating a vibrating/springing effect. This makes it harder for the bbl to return to battery in the same place shot after shot along with the bbl heating up adding to the deflection.

Vertical stringing is the major side effect of springing. The op shot those targets @ close range (7yds). He's either a bad shot and does a lot of flinching/anticipating recoil (which I highly doubt!!!). Or that 1911 has springing issues.

[owejia]

Forrest r also interested in the fix or cure for this springing issue. Thanks

[jrayborn]

Springing:
It's when the bbl bushing is forcing the bbl one direction and the bbl link is forcing the bbl in a different direction. This causes tension in the middle of the bbl creating a vibrating/springing effect. This makes it harder for the bbl to return to battery in the same place shot after shot along with the bbl heating up adding to the deflection.

Vertical stringing is the major side effect of springing. The op shot those targets @ close range (7yds). He's either a bad shot and does a lot of flinching/anticipating recoil (which I highly doubt!!!). Or that 1911 has springing issues.

Thank you!

[DougGuy]

Springing:
It's when the bbl bushing is forcing the bbl one direction and the bbl link is forcing the bbl in a different direction. This causes tension in the middle of the bbl creating a vibrating/springing effect. This makes it harder for the bbl to return to battery in the same place shot after shot along with the bbl heating up adding to the deflection.



Take the slide off, put only the bushing and the barrel in the slide, and see if the barrel goes all the way into the lugs in the slide. If it goes without any bind, the gun is NOT SPRINGING.

You have to get a barrel into an obviously too tight of lockup before springing can occur.

There are a few reasons for vertical stringing, but barrel springing is almost non existent because it's almost impossible to lock a 1911 up tight enough to cause springing (as described by forrest r), the gun will fail to go into battery numerous times. You will definitely know something is wrong.

[Forrest r]

Take the slide off, put only the bushing and the barrel in the slide, and see if the barrel goes all the way into the lugs in the slide. If it goes without any bind, the gun is NOT SPRINGING.

You have to get a barrel into an obviously too tight of lockup before springing can occur.

There are a few reasons for vertical stringing, but barrel springing is almost non existent because it's almost impossible to lock a 1911 up tight enough to cause springing (as described by forrest r), the gun will fail to go into battery numerous times. You will definitely know something is wrong.

You are stating an extreme example of springing caused by a bubba job fitting the bbl bushing.

Myself when I fit a bbl bushing I like them tight to the slide on wadguns needing a bushing wrench to take it off and on. gp 1911's are only hand tight.

When fitting the bushing to the bbl I like to have a small amount of springing. I'm talking +/- 5/1000th's" bbl lift that something as light as a 1/2oz sinker when set on the bbl will seat it all the way down. Doing this doesn't affect the reliability/function of the 1911 but has a huge impact on accuracy. It could take 100 rounds or more for the final break in of the bushing/bbl fit.

When buying a 1911 I won't buy one if I can't take the slide off and look at the bbl fit to the slide and bushing. I won't say how many springfield range officers I looked a before buying 1 chambered in 45acp. After putting less than 100 rounds thru it testing for function I started testing loads. This is what I ended up with
https://i.imgur.com/lxO5I66.jpg

Couple years later I bought another springfield ro chambered in 9mm. Same +/- 100 round break-in then load testing. Ended up with this
https://i.imgur.com/N6XBlbc.jpg

Both are box stock, the bbl bushing can be taken off of both of them by hand (no wrench required). Both shot tight groups but showed signs of vertical stringing. I also made sure there was a curvature to the middle bend of the recoil spring.

This is what the groups look like after a couple 1000 rounds down the tube in the 45acp 1911.
https://i.imgur.com/N17hNIE.jpg

The vertical stringing is me at this point. The 9mm 1911 10-shot group @ 50yds testing loads with the 9mm 1911.
https://i.imgur.com/77VoPsa.jpg

The 64 dollar question is:
Did those 2 springfield ro's show signs of springing when I looked at them or did the bbl's drop flat???

IMHO:
Springing in a 1911 isn't a bad thing as long as it isn't excessive. And it actually a great way for someone who isn't sure how to fit a bbl bushing to use as a guide to make an excellent bbl/bushing fit.

Anyway sorry to the op for the thread drift. When I watched your video my 1st thoughts were springing issues. As Doug said, it very well could be something else.

[44MAG#1]

The problems with diagnosing problems from targets people post is most can't shoot a handgun well offhand. That is the reason most targets shown are from a sandbagged rest. I have been a member of a couple ranges for many, many, many years and have shot on indoor ranges and have seen many, many, many people shoot. Even at ranges as close as 7 yards most don't shoot any better than what the OP did regardless of the gun or load.
Trying to show ones knowledge by "long-range diagnosis" from a posted target is wrong in my opinion, especially from an off hand target.
I'll add this, I've seen people that couldn't do much better at 5 yards.
Then you have the same type of shooters that will post a couple targets that Lady Luck was sitting on both their shoulders when they shot them knowing they couldn't duplicate them in the next 10 targets they shoot.